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Posted to dev@flex.apache.org by Jonathan Campos <jo...@gmail.com> on 2012/06/14 18:46:17 UTC
Starling + Flex
Recently I've been getting aquatinted with Starling to see if it could work
with Flex. After a few days of playing I think that it is possible but I do
see the issues now and there is plenty of work that is necessary to make it
happen.
To get things going I basically cut down the UIComponent (to the parts that
I cared about), made a copy of the entire Flex framework (as many
interfaces rely on DisplayObject, etc), replaced them with Starling
classes, rebuilt some of the Spark primitives, and "adjusted" some of the
starling classes to fit some of the Flash interfaces.
At this point I'm definitely going to wait to get the 4.8 release out
before giving this more time but I think it is possible. I'm sure other
developers are already aware of it but if we could make some new interfaces
such as an IDisplayObject it would be much easier switching out
DisplayObject for a Starling DisplayObject.
Just thinking out loud at this point.
--
Jonathan Campos
Re: Starling + Flex
Posted by Roland Zwaga <ro...@stackandheap.com>.
>
> I'll actually punt that one to Nick. Talking with him at 360 he seemed to
> think that he had a solution.
>
Great to hear that! Keep us posted on his thoughts, as far as I know
accessibility
was the big hurdle from stopping us using stage3d, so if this can be solved
we'd be
able to enter a whole new arena of possibilities ;)
Roland
Re: Starling + Flex
Posted by Jonathan Campos <jo...@gmail.com>.
On Thu, Jun 14, 2012 at 11:51 AM, Roland Zwaga <ro...@stackandheap.com>wrote:
> What are your thoughts
> about the previously
> discussed accessibility problems? Could they be implemented as well
> somehow?
>
I'll actually punt that one to Nick. Talking with him at 360 he seemed to
think that he had a solution.
The bigger problem is having this work with the current solution. To be
more versatile will require some rework.
--
Jonathan Campos
Re: Starling + Flex
Posted by Roland Zwaga <ro...@stackandheap.com>.
>
> Recently I've been getting aquatinted with Starling to see if it could work
> with Flex. After a few days of playing I think that it is possible but I do
> see the issues now and there is plenty of work that is necessary to make it
> happen.
>
Very interesting work Jonathan, thanks for this! What are your thoughts
about the previously
discussed accessibility problems? Could they be implemented as well somehow?
Roland
Re: Starling + Flex
Posted by sébastien Paturel <se...@gmail.com>.
"felt to make further changes would be best not with the current
iteration. "
If i understand well, you mean that it suits not well to a minor iteration,
But it's realistic task and does not require to rewrite >= 25% of the
framework?
Am i right?
IMO its not a big emergency to DO it, but it's an emergency to know what
the sdk CAN be or not.
If flex is not even able to run on next Adobe's runtime, it has less
time to evoluate than expected.
Le 21/10/2012 19:51, Jonathan Campos a écrit :
> On Sun, Oct 21, 2012 at 12:34 PM, Alex Harui <ah...@adobe.com> wrote:
>
>> What will that look like? I have some ideas, but I'm not totally sure yet,
>> I hope to have some discussions on this at 360Min before bringing the ideas
>> to the list.
>>
> I wish I could make 360Min to have this discussion but I have a wedding I
> have to go to.
>
> When I meant that it would be fairly substantial bit of work I would
> recommend that we push for that upgrade on the next version. While trying
> to make the change with the existing framework I was successful on some
> changes but felt to make further changes would be best not with the current
> iteration.
>
Re: Starling + Flex
Posted by Jonathan Campos <jo...@gmail.com>.
On Sun, Oct 21, 2012 at 12:34 PM, Alex Harui <ah...@adobe.com> wrote:
> What will that look like? I have some ideas, but I'm not totally sure yet,
> I hope to have some discussions on this at 360Min before bringing the ideas
> to the list.
>
I wish I could make 360Min to have this discussion but I have a wedding I
have to go to.
When I meant that it would be fairly substantial bit of work I would
recommend that we push for that upgrade on the next version. While trying
to make the change with the existing framework I was successful on some
changes but felt to make further changes would be best not with the current
iteration.
--
Jonathan Campos
Re: Starling + Flex
Posted by Erik de Bruin <er...@ixsoftware.nl>.
Things worth doing are hardly ever easy. Does that mean we shouldn't do
them at all? You seem to have a clear idea how a future-proof framework
should be architected. Maybe you can share those insights with the project,
or maybe even start working toward the goal you seek. I'm sure there will
be others that are interested in such a project and will be willing to
invest (considerable) time in it!
Stop blaming Adobe for decisions made in the past and work with us to
prepare Apache Flex for the future.
TL;DR: in Open Source you have to "put your code where your words are."
EdB
On Sunday, October 21, 2012, sébastien Paturel wrote:
> Thanks for the update,
> but why would it require a "fairly massive rewrite" exactly?
> when you say "I would look at that" about feathersui, you mean as an
> alternative to flex?
>
> its quite a bad news IMO. if flex can't "easely" target a new rendering
> layer like starling, which stay in an Adobe runtime,
> what is the future of flex as a multi platform framework, and especially
> as a mobile SDK?
>
>
> After discussing with Thibault and spending time working on this I've
>> determined that a fairly massive rewrite would be required. Shortly after
>> they released http://feathersui.com/ and I will say that it is a nice bit
>> of work. I would look at that.
>>
>> On Sat, Oct 20, 2012 at 8:40 AM, sébastien Paturel
>> <se...@gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>> Hi jonathan,
>>> What is the state of this very promising project?
>>>
>>> Le 14/06/2012 18:46, Jonathan Campos a écrit :
>>>
>>> Recently I've been getting aquatinted with Starling to see if it could
>>>
>>>> work
>>>> with Flex. After a few days of playing I think that it is possible but I
>>>> do
>>>> see the issues now and there is plenty of work that is necessary to make
>>>> it
>>>> happen.
>>>>
>>>> To get things going I basically cut down the UIComponent (to the parts
>>>> that
>>>> I cared about), made a copy of the entire Flex framework (as many
>>>> interfaces rely on DisplayObject, etc), replaced them with Starling
>>>> classes, rebuilt some of the Spark primitives, and "adjusted" some of
>>>> the
>>>> starling classes to fit some of the Flash interfaces.
>>>>
>>>> At this point I'm definitely going to wait to get the 4.8 release out
>>>> before giving this more time but I think it is possible. I'm sure other
>>>> developers are already aware of it but if we could make some new
>>>> interfaces
>>>> such as an IDisplayObject it would be much easier switching out
>>>> DisplayObject for a Starling DisplayObject.
>>>>
>>>> Just thinking out loud at this point.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>
--
Ix Multimedia Software
Jan Luykenstraat 27
3521 VB Utrecht
T. 06-51952295
I. www.ixsoftware.nl
Re: Starling + Flex
Posted by Nicholas Kwiatkowski <ni...@spoon.as>.
Essentially, anything that references the Stage (do a search/replace for
Stage), and any component that has addChild in it needs to be re-designed.
This could be as simple as re-creating our own DisplayList object, and
pushing that functionality to certain sub-components. I'm not one who
would even attempt to do that because if done incorrectly would be a
performance nightmare. The other issues that persists is the simple
drawing techniques (which could be taken care of by re-doing most of the
skins of existing components -- assuming everything is an fx style
component) that almost every visual component relies on.
By the way, that would fix our base SDK, but would massacre the ecosystem
as existing components (think, ESRI's components) would no longer be
compatible unless they update their component set as well. There is
no backwards compatibility mode if you change the SDK to use Stage3D.
-Nick
On Sun, Oct 21, 2012 at 2:12 PM, Erik de Bruin <er...@ixsoftware.nl> wrote:
> > It looks to be a pretty big task. The biggest problem is the lack of a
> > DisplayList, which is the model that Flex is based on. That in itself
> will
> > cause well over 900 classes to have to be re-engineered. After you've
> > re=engineered those, all you would have left is the networking stack, and
> > some one-offs (like Mike's favorite -- binding!).
>
> Would you mind elaborating on this a bit (if only so other's won't
> have to heave half a day on this again, later on)? What did you look
> at, and where did the first "problems" appear? In other words, I'm
> interested to hear what WILL be usable as well as what won't.
> Refactoring or re-engineering 900 classes can either be a lot of hard
> work or a lot of easy work (maybe automate some?)...
>
> > the short-term. There are LOTS of other things I'd like to see happen
> > before we refactor to use the "this is Adobe's direction today"
> technology.
>
> One of Alex's comments actually made me sit up and take note: he's
> proposing to abstract the framework from the delivery platform. This
> would mean LESS dependence on Adobe's "tech du jour", or whatever
> tickles the internet's fancy at any one time.
>
> EdB
>
>
>
> >> Considering the discussions on the various forums, it doesn't look very
> >> promising
> >> On Oct 21, 2012 3:59 PM, "sébastien Paturel" <se...@gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> > Thanks for the update,
> >> > but why would it require a "fairly massive rewrite" exactly?
> >> > when you say "I would look at that" about feathersui, you mean as an
> >> > alternative to flex?
> >> >
> >> > its quite a bad news IMO. if flex can't "easely" target a new
> rendering
> >> > layer like starling, which stay in an Adobe runtime,
> >> > what is the future of flex as a multi platform framework, and
> especially
> >> > as a mobile SDK?
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > After discussing with Thibault and spending time working on this I've
> >> >> determined that a fairly massive rewrite would be required. Shortly
> >> after
> >> >> they released http://feathersui.com/ and I will say that it is a
> nice
> >> bit
> >> >> of work. I would look at that.
> >> >>
> >> >> On Sat, Oct 20, 2012 at 8:40 AM, sébastien Paturel
> >> >> <se...@gmail.com>wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> Hi jonathan,
> >> >>> What is the state of this very promising project?
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Le 14/06/2012 18:46, Jonathan Campos a écrit :
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Recently I've been getting aquatinted with Starling to see if it
> >> could
> >> >>>
> >> >>>> work
> >> >>>> with Flex. After a few days of playing I think that it is possible
> >> but I
> >> >>>> do
> >> >>>> see the issues now and there is plenty of work that is necessary to
> >> make
> >> >>>> it
> >> >>>> happen.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> To get things going I basically cut down the UIComponent (to the
> parts
> >> >>>> that
> >> >>>> I cared about), made a copy of the entire Flex framework (as many
> >> >>>> interfaces rely on DisplayObject, etc), replaced them with Starling
> >> >>>> classes, rebuilt some of the Spark primitives, and "adjusted" some
> of
> >> >>>> the
> >> >>>> starling classes to fit some of the Flash interfaces.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> At this point I'm definitely going to wait to get the 4.8 release
> out
> >> >>>> before giving this more time but I think it is possible. I'm sure
> >> other
> >> >>>> developers are already aware of it but if we could make some new
> >> >>>> interfaces
> >> >>>> such as an IDisplayObject it would be much easier switching out
> >> >>>> DisplayObject for a Starling DisplayObject.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Just thinking out loud at this point.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>
> >> >
> >>
>
>
>
> --
> Ix Multimedia Software
>
> Jan Luykenstraat 27
> 3521 VB Utrecht
>
> T. 06-51952295
> I. www.ixsoftware.nl
>
Re: Starling + Flex
Posted by Erik de Bruin <er...@ixsoftware.nl>.
> It looks to be a pretty big task. The biggest problem is the lack of a
> DisplayList, which is the model that Flex is based on. That in itself will
> cause well over 900 classes to have to be re-engineered. After you've
> re=engineered those, all you would have left is the networking stack, and
> some one-offs (like Mike's favorite -- binding!).
Would you mind elaborating on this a bit (if only so other's won't
have to heave half a day on this again, later on)? What did you look
at, and where did the first "problems" appear? In other words, I'm
interested to hear what WILL be usable as well as what won't.
Refactoring or re-engineering 900 classes can either be a lot of hard
work or a lot of easy work (maybe automate some?)...
> the short-term. There are LOTS of other things I'd like to see happen
> before we refactor to use the "this is Adobe's direction today" technology.
One of Alex's comments actually made me sit up and take note: he's
proposing to abstract the framework from the delivery platform. This
would mean LESS dependence on Adobe's "tech du jour", or whatever
tickles the internet's fancy at any one time.
EdB
>> Considering the discussions on the various forums, it doesn't look very
>> promising
>> On Oct 21, 2012 3:59 PM, "sébastien Paturel" <se...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > Thanks for the update,
>> > but why would it require a "fairly massive rewrite" exactly?
>> > when you say "I would look at that" about feathersui, you mean as an
>> > alternative to flex?
>> >
>> > its quite a bad news IMO. if flex can't "easely" target a new rendering
>> > layer like starling, which stay in an Adobe runtime,
>> > what is the future of flex as a multi platform framework, and especially
>> > as a mobile SDK?
>> >
>> >
>> > After discussing with Thibault and spending time working on this I've
>> >> determined that a fairly massive rewrite would be required. Shortly
>> after
>> >> they released http://feathersui.com/ and I will say that it is a nice
>> bit
>> >> of work. I would look at that.
>> >>
>> >> On Sat, Oct 20, 2012 at 8:40 AM, sébastien Paturel
>> >> <se...@gmail.com>wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Hi jonathan,
>> >>> What is the state of this very promising project?
>> >>>
>> >>> Le 14/06/2012 18:46, Jonathan Campos a écrit :
>> >>>
>> >>> Recently I've been getting aquatinted with Starling to see if it
>> could
>> >>>
>> >>>> work
>> >>>> with Flex. After a few days of playing I think that it is possible
>> but I
>> >>>> do
>> >>>> see the issues now and there is plenty of work that is necessary to
>> make
>> >>>> it
>> >>>> happen.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> To get things going I basically cut down the UIComponent (to the parts
>> >>>> that
>> >>>> I cared about), made a copy of the entire Flex framework (as many
>> >>>> interfaces rely on DisplayObject, etc), replaced them with Starling
>> >>>> classes, rebuilt some of the Spark primitives, and "adjusted" some of
>> >>>> the
>> >>>> starling classes to fit some of the Flash interfaces.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> At this point I'm definitely going to wait to get the 4.8 release out
>> >>>> before giving this more time but I think it is possible. I'm sure
>> other
>> >>>> developers are already aware of it but if we could make some new
>> >>>> interfaces
>> >>>> such as an IDisplayObject it would be much easier switching out
>> >>>> DisplayObject for a Starling DisplayObject.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Just thinking out loud at this point.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>
>> >
>>
--
Ix Multimedia Software
Jan Luykenstraat 27
3521 VB Utrecht
T. 06-51952295
I. www.ixsoftware.nl
Re: Starling + Flex
Posted by Alex Harui <ah...@adobe.com>.
And Starling is supposed to be that emulation. I haven't tried it myself
and I don't know if there are issues and what the trade-offs are.
On 10/21/12 4:22 PM, "Nicholas Kwiatkowski" <ni...@spoon.as> wrote:
> Actually, I said the displayList /could/ be emulated, but I wouldn't be one
> to do it. Since everything in Flex pretty much depends on it, you would
> need to be extremely careful for anything that would need to be optimized.
> Something I am not ;P
>
> -Nick
>
> On Sun, Oct 21, 2012 at 3:38 PM, sébastien Paturel
> <se...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> A display list can't be emulated? is it such a bad idea that we should not
>> continue to use it anymore?
>>
>> It's not only the "adobe's direction issue", its the multi target
>> direction issue, and getting rid of Adobe's runtime dependency
>>
>> Le 21/10/2012 20:00, Nicholas Kwiatkowski a écrit :
>>
>> I've taken a look at it, and gave it the half-day heave.
>>>
>>> It looks to be a pretty big task. The biggest problem is the lack of a
>>> DisplayList, which is the model that Flex is based on. That in itself
>>> will
>>> cause well over 900 classes to have to be re-engineered. After you've
>>> re=engineered those, all you would have left is the networking stack, and
>>> some one-offs (like Mike's favorite -- binding!).
>>>
>>> I'm not saying that Flex shouldn't go that route, but I think at this
>>> point
>>> of the game, it would be unfeasible for us to think we can take this on in
>>> the short-term. There are LOTS of other things I'd like to see happen
>>> before we refactor to use the "this is Adobe's direction today"
>>> technology.
>>>
>>> -Nick
>>>
>>> On Sun, Oct 21, 2012 at 11:07 AM, aYo ~ <ay...@binitie.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Considering the discussions on the various forums, it doesn't look very
>>>> promising
>>>> On Oct 21, 2012 3:59 PM, "sébastien Paturel" <se...@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for the update,
>>>>> but why would it require a "fairly massive rewrite" exactly?
>>>>> when you say "I would look at that" about feathersui, you mean as an
>>>>> alternative to flex?
>>>>>
>>>>> its quite a bad news IMO. if flex can't "easely" target a new rendering
>>>>> layer like starling, which stay in an Adobe runtime,
>>>>> what is the future of flex as a multi platform framework, and especially
>>>>> as a mobile SDK?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> After discussing with Thibault and spending time working on this I've
>>>>>
>>>>>> determined that a fairly massive rewrite would be required. Shortly
>>>>>>
>>>>> after
>>>>
>>>>> they released http://feathersui.com/ and I will say that it is a nice
>>>>>>
>>>>> bit
>>>>
>>>>> of work. I would look at that.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sat, Oct 20, 2012 at 8:40 AM, sébastien Paturel
>>>>>> <se...@gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi jonathan,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What is the state of this very promising project?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Le 14/06/2012 18:46, Jonathan Campos a écrit :
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Recently I've been getting aquatinted with Starling to see if it
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> could
>>>>
>>>>> work
>>>>>>>> with Flex. After a few days of playing I think that it is possible
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> but I
>>>>
>>>>> do
>>>>>>>> see the issues now and there is plenty of work that is necessary to
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> make
>>>>
>>>>> it
>>>>>>>> happen.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> To get things going I basically cut down the UIComponent (to the
>>>>>>>> parts
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> I cared about), made a copy of the entire Flex framework (as many
>>>>>>>> interfaces rely on DisplayObject, etc), replaced them with Starling
>>>>>>>> classes, rebuilt some of the Spark primitives, and "adjusted" some of
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> starling classes to fit some of the Flash interfaces.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> At this point I'm definitely going to wait to get the 4.8 release out
>>>>>>>> before giving this more time but I think it is possible. I'm sure
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> other
>>>>
>>>>> developers are already aware of it but if we could make some new
>>>>>>>> interfaces
>>>>>>>> such as an IDisplayObject it would be much easier switching out
>>>>>>>> DisplayObject for a Starling DisplayObject.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Just thinking out loud at this point.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>
--
Alex Harui
Flex SDK Team
Adobe Systems, Inc.
http://blogs.adobe.com/aharui
Re: Starling + Flex
Posted by Nicholas Kwiatkowski <ni...@spoon.as>.
Actually, I said the displayList /could/ be emulated, but I wouldn't be one
to do it. Since everything in Flex pretty much depends on it, you would
need to be extremely careful for anything that would need to be optimized.
Something I am not ;P
-Nick
On Sun, Oct 21, 2012 at 3:38 PM, sébastien Paturel
<se...@gmail.com>wrote:
> A display list can't be emulated? is it such a bad idea that we should not
> continue to use it anymore?
>
> It's not only the "adobe's direction issue", its the multi target
> direction issue, and getting rid of Adobe's runtime dependency
>
> Le 21/10/2012 20:00, Nicholas Kwiatkowski a écrit :
>
> I've taken a look at it, and gave it the half-day heave.
>>
>> It looks to be a pretty big task. The biggest problem is the lack of a
>> DisplayList, which is the model that Flex is based on. That in itself
>> will
>> cause well over 900 classes to have to be re-engineered. After you've
>> re=engineered those, all you would have left is the networking stack, and
>> some one-offs (like Mike's favorite -- binding!).
>>
>> I'm not saying that Flex shouldn't go that route, but I think at this
>> point
>> of the game, it would be unfeasible for us to think we can take this on in
>> the short-term. There are LOTS of other things I'd like to see happen
>> before we refactor to use the "this is Adobe's direction today"
>> technology.
>>
>> -Nick
>>
>> On Sun, Oct 21, 2012 at 11:07 AM, aYo ~ <ay...@binitie.com> wrote:
>>
>> Considering the discussions on the various forums, it doesn't look very
>>> promising
>>> On Oct 21, 2012 3:59 PM, "sébastien Paturel" <se...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Thanks for the update,
>>>> but why would it require a "fairly massive rewrite" exactly?
>>>> when you say "I would look at that" about feathersui, you mean as an
>>>> alternative to flex?
>>>>
>>>> its quite a bad news IMO. if flex can't "easely" target a new rendering
>>>> layer like starling, which stay in an Adobe runtime,
>>>> what is the future of flex as a multi platform framework, and especially
>>>> as a mobile SDK?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> After discussing with Thibault and spending time working on this I've
>>>>
>>>>> determined that a fairly massive rewrite would be required. Shortly
>>>>>
>>>> after
>>>
>>>> they released http://feathersui.com/ and I will say that it is a nice
>>>>>
>>>> bit
>>>
>>>> of work. I would look at that.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, Oct 20, 2012 at 8:40 AM, sébastien Paturel
>>>>> <se...@gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi jonathan,
>>>>>
>>>>>> What is the state of this very promising project?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Le 14/06/2012 18:46, Jonathan Campos a écrit :
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Recently I've been getting aquatinted with Starling to see if it
>>>>>>
>>>>> could
>>>
>>>> work
>>>>>>> with Flex. After a few days of playing I think that it is possible
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> but I
>>>
>>>> do
>>>>>>> see the issues now and there is plenty of work that is necessary to
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> make
>>>
>>>> it
>>>>>>> happen.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To get things going I basically cut down the UIComponent (to the
>>>>>>> parts
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> I cared about), made a copy of the entire Flex framework (as many
>>>>>>> interfaces rely on DisplayObject, etc), replaced them with Starling
>>>>>>> classes, rebuilt some of the Spark primitives, and "adjusted" some of
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> starling classes to fit some of the Flash interfaces.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> At this point I'm definitely going to wait to get the 4.8 release out
>>>>>>> before giving this more time but I think it is possible. I'm sure
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> other
>>>
>>>> developers are already aware of it but if we could make some new
>>>>>>> interfaces
>>>>>>> such as an IDisplayObject it would be much easier switching out
>>>>>>> DisplayObject for a Starling DisplayObject.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Just thinking out loud at this point.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>
Re: Starling + Flex
Posted by sébastien Paturel <se...@gmail.com>.
A display list can't be emulated? is it such a bad idea that we should
not continue to use it anymore?
It's not only the "adobe's direction issue", its the multi target
direction issue, and getting rid of Adobe's runtime dependency
Le 21/10/2012 20:00, Nicholas Kwiatkowski a écrit :
> I've taken a look at it, and gave it the half-day heave.
>
> It looks to be a pretty big task. The biggest problem is the lack of a
> DisplayList, which is the model that Flex is based on. That in itself will
> cause well over 900 classes to have to be re-engineered. After you've
> re=engineered those, all you would have left is the networking stack, and
> some one-offs (like Mike's favorite -- binding!).
>
> I'm not saying that Flex shouldn't go that route, but I think at this point
> of the game, it would be unfeasible for us to think we can take this on in
> the short-term. There are LOTS of other things I'd like to see happen
> before we refactor to use the "this is Adobe's direction today" technology.
>
> -Nick
>
> On Sun, Oct 21, 2012 at 11:07 AM, aYo ~ <ay...@binitie.com> wrote:
>
>> Considering the discussions on the various forums, it doesn't look very
>> promising
>> On Oct 21, 2012 3:59 PM, "sébastien Paturel" <se...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks for the update,
>>> but why would it require a "fairly massive rewrite" exactly?
>>> when you say "I would look at that" about feathersui, you mean as an
>>> alternative to flex?
>>>
>>> its quite a bad news IMO. if flex can't "easely" target a new rendering
>>> layer like starling, which stay in an Adobe runtime,
>>> what is the future of flex as a multi platform framework, and especially
>>> as a mobile SDK?
>>>
>>>
>>> After discussing with Thibault and spending time working on this I've
>>>> determined that a fairly massive rewrite would be required. Shortly
>> after
>>>> they released http://feathersui.com/ and I will say that it is a nice
>> bit
>>>> of work. I would look at that.
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Oct 20, 2012 at 8:40 AM, sébastien Paturel
>>>> <se...@gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi jonathan,
>>>>> What is the state of this very promising project?
>>>>>
>>>>> Le 14/06/2012 18:46, Jonathan Campos a écrit :
>>>>>
>>>>> Recently I've been getting aquatinted with Starling to see if it
>> could
>>>>>> work
>>>>>> with Flex. After a few days of playing I think that it is possible
>> but I
>>>>>> do
>>>>>> see the issues now and there is plenty of work that is necessary to
>> make
>>>>>> it
>>>>>> happen.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To get things going I basically cut down the UIComponent (to the parts
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> I cared about), made a copy of the entire Flex framework (as many
>>>>>> interfaces rely on DisplayObject, etc), replaced them with Starling
>>>>>> classes, rebuilt some of the Spark primitives, and "adjusted" some of
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> starling classes to fit some of the Flash interfaces.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> At this point I'm definitely going to wait to get the 4.8 release out
>>>>>> before giving this more time but I think it is possible. I'm sure
>> other
>>>>>> developers are already aware of it but if we could make some new
>>>>>> interfaces
>>>>>> such as an IDisplayObject it would be much easier switching out
>>>>>> DisplayObject for a Starling DisplayObject.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Just thinking out loud at this point.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
Re: Starling + Flex
Posted by Nicholas Kwiatkowski <ni...@spoon.as>.
I've taken a look at it, and gave it the half-day heave.
It looks to be a pretty big task. The biggest problem is the lack of a
DisplayList, which is the model that Flex is based on. That in itself will
cause well over 900 classes to have to be re-engineered. After you've
re=engineered those, all you would have left is the networking stack, and
some one-offs (like Mike's favorite -- binding!).
I'm not saying that Flex shouldn't go that route, but I think at this point
of the game, it would be unfeasible for us to think we can take this on in
the short-term. There are LOTS of other things I'd like to see happen
before we refactor to use the "this is Adobe's direction today" technology.
-Nick
On Sun, Oct 21, 2012 at 11:07 AM, aYo ~ <ay...@binitie.com> wrote:
> Considering the discussions on the various forums, it doesn't look very
> promising
> On Oct 21, 2012 3:59 PM, "sébastien Paturel" <se...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Thanks for the update,
> > but why would it require a "fairly massive rewrite" exactly?
> > when you say "I would look at that" about feathersui, you mean as an
> > alternative to flex?
> >
> > its quite a bad news IMO. if flex can't "easely" target a new rendering
> > layer like starling, which stay in an Adobe runtime,
> > what is the future of flex as a multi platform framework, and especially
> > as a mobile SDK?
> >
> >
> > After discussing with Thibault and spending time working on this I've
> >> determined that a fairly massive rewrite would be required. Shortly
> after
> >> they released http://feathersui.com/ and I will say that it is a nice
> bit
> >> of work. I would look at that.
> >>
> >> On Sat, Oct 20, 2012 at 8:40 AM, sébastien Paturel
> >> <se...@gmail.com>wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi jonathan,
> >>> What is the state of this very promising project?
> >>>
> >>> Le 14/06/2012 18:46, Jonathan Campos a écrit :
> >>>
> >>> Recently I've been getting aquatinted with Starling to see if it
> could
> >>>
> >>>> work
> >>>> with Flex. After a few days of playing I think that it is possible
> but I
> >>>> do
> >>>> see the issues now and there is plenty of work that is necessary to
> make
> >>>> it
> >>>> happen.
> >>>>
> >>>> To get things going I basically cut down the UIComponent (to the parts
> >>>> that
> >>>> I cared about), made a copy of the entire Flex framework (as many
> >>>> interfaces rely on DisplayObject, etc), replaced them with Starling
> >>>> classes, rebuilt some of the Spark primitives, and "adjusted" some of
> >>>> the
> >>>> starling classes to fit some of the Flash interfaces.
> >>>>
> >>>> At this point I'm definitely going to wait to get the 4.8 release out
> >>>> before giving this more time but I think it is possible. I'm sure
> other
> >>>> developers are already aware of it but if we could make some new
> >>>> interfaces
> >>>> such as an IDisplayObject it would be much easier switching out
> >>>> DisplayObject for a Starling DisplayObject.
> >>>>
> >>>> Just thinking out loud at this point.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>
> >
>
Re: Starling + Flex
Posted by Jesus Barquin <yu...@gmail.com>.
If flex can not be ported to Stage3D and Flash Player NEXT then Flex looks
like a diying project. Because then ported it to JS seems imposible.
2012/10/21 aYo ~ <ay...@binitie.com>
> Considering the discussions on the various forums, it doesn't look very
> promising
> On Oct 21, 2012 3:59 PM, "sébastien Paturel" <se...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Thanks for the update,
> > but why would it require a "fairly massive rewrite" exactly?
> > when you say "I would look at that" about feathersui, you mean as an
> > alternative to flex?
> >
> > its quite a bad news IMO. if flex can't "easely" target a new rendering
> > layer like starling, which stay in an Adobe runtime,
> > what is the future of flex as a multi platform framework, and especially
> > as a mobile SDK?
> >
> >
> > After discussing with Thibault and spending time working on this I've
> >> determined that a fairly massive rewrite would be required. Shortly
> after
> >> they released http://feathersui.com/ and I will say that it is a nice
> bit
> >> of work. I would look at that.
> >>
> >> On Sat, Oct 20, 2012 at 8:40 AM, sébastien Paturel
> >> <se...@gmail.com>wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi jonathan,
> >>> What is the state of this very promising project?
> >>>
> >>> Le 14/06/2012 18:46, Jonathan Campos a écrit :
> >>>
> >>> Recently I've been getting aquatinted with Starling to see if it
> could
> >>>
> >>>> work
> >>>> with Flex. After a few days of playing I think that it is possible
> but I
> >>>> do
> >>>> see the issues now and there is plenty of work that is necessary to
> make
> >>>> it
> >>>> happen.
> >>>>
> >>>> To get things going I basically cut down the UIComponent (to the parts
> >>>> that
> >>>> I cared about), made a copy of the entire Flex framework (as many
> >>>> interfaces rely on DisplayObject, etc), replaced them with Starling
> >>>> classes, rebuilt some of the Spark primitives, and "adjusted" some of
> >>>> the
> >>>> starling classes to fit some of the Flash interfaces.
> >>>>
> >>>> At this point I'm definitely going to wait to get the 4.8 release out
> >>>> before giving this more time but I think it is possible. I'm sure
> other
> >>>> developers are already aware of it but if we could make some new
> >>>> interfaces
> >>>> such as an IDisplayObject it would be much easier switching out
> >>>> DisplayObject for a Starling DisplayObject.
> >>>>
> >>>> Just thinking out loud at this point.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>
> >
>
Re: Starling + Flex
Posted by aYo ~ <ay...@binitie.com>.
Considering the discussions on the various forums, it doesn't look very
promising
On Oct 21, 2012 3:59 PM, "sébastien Paturel" <se...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Thanks for the update,
> but why would it require a "fairly massive rewrite" exactly?
> when you say "I would look at that" about feathersui, you mean as an
> alternative to flex?
>
> its quite a bad news IMO. if flex can't "easely" target a new rendering
> layer like starling, which stay in an Adobe runtime,
> what is the future of flex as a multi platform framework, and especially
> as a mobile SDK?
>
>
> After discussing with Thibault and spending time working on this I've
>> determined that a fairly massive rewrite would be required. Shortly after
>> they released http://feathersui.com/ and I will say that it is a nice bit
>> of work. I would look at that.
>>
>> On Sat, Oct 20, 2012 at 8:40 AM, sébastien Paturel
>> <se...@gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>> Hi jonathan,
>>> What is the state of this very promising project?
>>>
>>> Le 14/06/2012 18:46, Jonathan Campos a écrit :
>>>
>>> Recently I've been getting aquatinted with Starling to see if it could
>>>
>>>> work
>>>> with Flex. After a few days of playing I think that it is possible but I
>>>> do
>>>> see the issues now and there is plenty of work that is necessary to make
>>>> it
>>>> happen.
>>>>
>>>> To get things going I basically cut down the UIComponent (to the parts
>>>> that
>>>> I cared about), made a copy of the entire Flex framework (as many
>>>> interfaces rely on DisplayObject, etc), replaced them with Starling
>>>> classes, rebuilt some of the Spark primitives, and "adjusted" some of
>>>> the
>>>> starling classes to fit some of the Flash interfaces.
>>>>
>>>> At this point I'm definitely going to wait to get the 4.8 release out
>>>> before giving this more time but I think it is possible. I'm sure other
>>>> developers are already aware of it but if we could make some new
>>>> interfaces
>>>> such as an IDisplayObject it would be much easier switching out
>>>> DisplayObject for a Starling DisplayObject.
>>>>
>>>> Just thinking out loud at this point.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>
Re: Starling + Flex
Posted by Erik de Bruin <er...@ixsoftware.nl>.
> I'm not presenting at 360Min, I'm going to learn about the various JS
> frameworks being presented and have some face-to-face discussions with some
> Flex folks who will be there to help organize my thoughts on what to propose
> on the list. I don't want to propose something that gets shot down right
> away. I have a lot to learn about the JS side of the world.
I have some experience writing frameworks in JS. If there is anything
I can help with, like building proof of concepts or putting code to
architectural ideas, feel free to ping me.
EdB
--
Ix Multimedia Software
Jan Luykenstraat 27
3521 VB Utrecht
T. 06-51952295
I. www.ixsoftware.nl
Re: Starling + Flex
Posted by Alex Harui <ah...@adobe.com>.
I'm not presenting at 360Min, I'm going to learn about the various JS
frameworks being presented and have some face-to-face discussions with some
Flex folks who will be there to help organize my thoughts on what to propose
on the list. I don't want to propose something that gets shot down right
away. I have a lot to learn about the JS side of the world.
On 10/21/12 10:39 AM, "Michael Schmalle" <ap...@teotigraphix.com> wrote:
> Well for those that can't hear your presentation, do please fill us in
> on your thoughts Alex.
>
> Mike
>
> Quoting Alex Harui <ah...@adobe.com>:
>
>> The current Flex Framework is a very large code base that contains 50% code
>> written for AS2 and then ported to AS3 and 50% code written with extra
>> overhead to support Flash Catalyst.
>>
>> All of the code is written to work against the Sprite/DisplayList API.
>>
>> A straight up port will bring all of that baggage with us, and, because of
>> the interdependencies in the code that is a vestige of what was required to
>> get AS2 performance, it will be hard to do such a port in phases.
>>
>> I've been saying from the beginning of Apache Flex that it is time for a
>> next-generation framework designed to be ported/transcoded/whatever to
>> different targets, which could include AVMNext/AS4 if it proves worthwhile,
>> but again, AVMNext doesn't have a good story around accessibility, so while
>> you could write some simple UI to get someone to pay for your game, I'm not
>> clear it upscales to true internet applications.
>>
>> What will that look like? I have some ideas, but I'm not totally sure yet,
>> I hope to have some discussions on this at 360Min before bringing the ideas
>> to the list.
>>
>> On 10/21/12 7:58 AM, "sébastien Paturel" <se...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks for the update,
>>> but why would it require a "fairly massive rewrite" exactly?
>>> when you say "I would look at that" about feathersui, you mean as an
>>> alternative to flex?
>>>
>>> its quite a bad news IMO. if flex can't "easely" target a new rendering
>>> layer like starling, which stay in an Adobe runtime,
>>> what is the future of flex as a multi platform framework, and especially
>>> as a mobile SDK?
>>>
>>>
>>>> After discussing with Thibault and spending time working on this I've
>>>> determined that a fairly massive rewrite would be required. Shortly after
>>>> they released http://feathersui.com/ and I will say that it is a nice bit
>>>> of work. I would look at that.
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Oct 20, 2012 at 8:40 AM, sébastien Paturel
>>>> <se...@gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi jonathan,
>>>>> What is the state of this very promising project?
>>>>>
>>>>> Le 14/06/2012 18:46, Jonathan Campos a écrit :
>>>>>
>>>>> Recently I've been getting aquatinted with Starling to see if it could
>>>>>> work
>>>>>> with Flex. After a few days of playing I think that it is possible but I
>>>>>> do
>>>>>> see the issues now and there is plenty of work that is necessary to make
>>>>>> it
>>>>>> happen.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To get things going I basically cut down the UIComponent (to the parts
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> I cared about), made a copy of the entire Flex framework (as many
>>>>>> interfaces rely on DisplayObject, etc), replaced them with Starling
>>>>>> classes, rebuilt some of the Spark primitives, and "adjusted" some of the
>>>>>> starling classes to fit some of the Flash interfaces.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> At this point I'm definitely going to wait to get the 4.8 release out
>>>>>> before giving this more time but I think it is possible. I'm sure other
>>>>>> developers are already aware of it but if we could make some new
>>>>>> interfaces
>>>>>> such as an IDisplayObject it would be much easier switching out
>>>>>> DisplayObject for a Starling DisplayObject.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Just thinking out loud at this point.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Alex Harui
>> Flex SDK Team
>> Adobe Systems, Inc.
>> http://blogs.adobe.com/aharui
>>
>>
--
Alex Harui
Flex SDK Team
Adobe Systems, Inc.
http://blogs.adobe.com/aharui
Re: Starling + Flex
Posted by Michael Schmalle <ap...@teotigraphix.com>.
Well for those that can't hear your presentation, do please fill us in
on your thoughts Alex.
Mike
Quoting Alex Harui <ah...@adobe.com>:
> The current Flex Framework is a very large code base that contains 50% code
> written for AS2 and then ported to AS3 and 50% code written with extra
> overhead to support Flash Catalyst.
>
> All of the code is written to work against the Sprite/DisplayList API.
>
> A straight up port will bring all of that baggage with us, and, because of
> the interdependencies in the code that is a vestige of what was required to
> get AS2 performance, it will be hard to do such a port in phases.
>
> I've been saying from the beginning of Apache Flex that it is time for a
> next-generation framework designed to be ported/transcoded/whatever to
> different targets, which could include AVMNext/AS4 if it proves worthwhile,
> but again, AVMNext doesn't have a good story around accessibility, so while
> you could write some simple UI to get someone to pay for your game, I'm not
> clear it upscales to true internet applications.
>
> What will that look like? I have some ideas, but I'm not totally sure yet,
> I hope to have some discussions on this at 360Min before bringing the ideas
> to the list.
>
> On 10/21/12 7:58 AM, "sébastien Paturel" <se...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Thanks for the update,
>> but why would it require a "fairly massive rewrite" exactly?
>> when you say "I would look at that" about feathersui, you mean as an
>> alternative to flex?
>>
>> its quite a bad news IMO. if flex can't "easely" target a new rendering
>> layer like starling, which stay in an Adobe runtime,
>> what is the future of flex as a multi platform framework, and especially
>> as a mobile SDK?
>>
>>
>>> After discussing with Thibault and spending time working on this I've
>>> determined that a fairly massive rewrite would be required. Shortly after
>>> they released http://feathersui.com/ and I will say that it is a nice bit
>>> of work. I would look at that.
>>>
>>> On Sat, Oct 20, 2012 at 8:40 AM, sébastien Paturel
>>> <se...@gmail.com>wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi jonathan,
>>>> What is the state of this very promising project?
>>>>
>>>> Le 14/06/2012 18:46, Jonathan Campos a écrit :
>>>>
>>>> Recently I've been getting aquatinted with Starling to see if it could
>>>>> work
>>>>> with Flex. After a few days of playing I think that it is possible but I
>>>>> do
>>>>> see the issues now and there is plenty of work that is necessary to make
>>>>> it
>>>>> happen.
>>>>>
>>>>> To get things going I basically cut down the UIComponent (to the parts
>>>>> that
>>>>> I cared about), made a copy of the entire Flex framework (as many
>>>>> interfaces rely on DisplayObject, etc), replaced them with Starling
>>>>> classes, rebuilt some of the Spark primitives, and "adjusted" some of the
>>>>> starling classes to fit some of the Flash interfaces.
>>>>>
>>>>> At this point I'm definitely going to wait to get the 4.8 release out
>>>>> before giving this more time but I think it is possible. I'm sure other
>>>>> developers are already aware of it but if we could make some new
>>>>> interfaces
>>>>> such as an IDisplayObject it would be much easier switching out
>>>>> DisplayObject for a Starling DisplayObject.
>>>>>
>>>>> Just thinking out loud at this point.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>
>
> --
> Alex Harui
> Flex SDK Team
> Adobe Systems, Inc.
> http://blogs.adobe.com/aharui
>
>
--
Michael Schmalle - Teoti Graphix, LLC
http://www.teotigraphix.com
http://blog.teotigraphix.com
Re: Starling + Flex
Posted by sébastien Paturel <se...@gmail.com>.
If refactoring the current SDK is so much work, yes starting from
scratch is the best option for future.
"we could think in start some refactor but that would be mainly
'maintenance mode'"
What would be the main objective of such refactoring then? Performances?
Le 22/10/2012 12:17, Carlos Rovira a écrit :
> I'm with Alex that Flex actual codebase is very old. It relys on
> things set up on Flash Professional 2004 (maybe even Flash MX). Then
> Flex 1.x get that legacy, and then, again Flex 2.x to 4.x
>
> Many of us would want to see changes inside the actual code base to
> let our systems, applications and products evolve and not get
> obsolete, but maybe that road is very painful since involves many
> man/hours that maybe we don't have.
>
> So as I put in other thread, we could think in start some refactor but
> that would be mainly "maintenance mode" and not get all the
> possibilities that we could get going a *new from scratch route".
>
> Maintenance is needed, and the I assume we continue having AVM2 in
> Flash Player as we continue to have AVM1 nowadays. So our legacy apps
> will continue to live there. But we should start to think in the
> future and that requires apply all what we know to a new framework.
>
>
>
> 2012/10/22 sébastien Paturel <se...@gmail.com>:
>> Sorry for sharing my frustration, but i'm really trying to be constructive
>> in the sens that i'm trying to get clear informations of the state of the
>> framework, regarding, a multi target future.
>> I was not talking about Adobe here, i was saying that, in the context of
>> Alex talking about starting a new framework from scratch.
>> I am not complaining about how the things are today, but about the lack of
>> visibility of what is possible, and what is not for the future, about what
>> is the state of discusison among commiters about such a subject etc.
>>
>>
>> "discussing (on various threads and other media, like conferences) that best
>> approach to do that."
>> I'm happy to know that there are active discussions about it. But i'm sorry,
>> i try to follow the ML since a few month, and i did not saw much about such
>> deep discussions regarding a mutli target future.
>> If it was the case, i would not be frustated (even if no definitive answer
>> has been found yet)
>> Instead i see other frustrated readers talking about "Apache model killing
>> the project", "ghost town", "need of a roadmap"...
>>
>> Can you please give us a feedback of those conferences? Can you just give a
>> quick update of the state of discussions and thoughts? and do you have any
>> advise to help us keep track of those discussions, if the ML is not the
>> right place?
>>
>> For now, to be constructive, i'm trying to understand:
>> - What is the current vision of commiters regarding the future of flex, and
>> the multi target possibilities? Thanks a lot to Alex to have shared a
>> detailed explaination of his current toughts. I'd also love to see commiters
>> answer to the thread "What is the essence of Flex".
>> - What does it imply for flex as a mobile multi target SDK if it does not
>> run on next Adobe runtime in the short term? (it depends on Adobe's plan
>> regarding AIR runtime in fact)
>> - What is the amount of work required to get flex run on starling? Is it
>> manageable task (for major update) or does it imply big rewrite of SDK?
>> - What is the list of dependancies that tie the SDk to flash platform?
>> - Is there a realistic future for actual flex in middle term to be still
>> multi target, or is it such a mess that starting from scratch is the only
>> realistic way?
>> ...
>>
>>
>>
>> Le 22/10/2012 08:46, Erik de Bruin a écrit :
>>
>>>> I feel that everything is going back in time. We're not talking about
>>>> abandoning an old technology, to get new modern and better one, we're
>>>> talking about abandoning a very efficient technology, with no alternative
>>>> with the same level of possibilities.
>>> I can understand your frustration, but you're not talking to Adobe on
>>> this list, you're talking to the contributors to Apache Flex. We
>>> trying to find a way to take the framework forward and are discussing
>>> (on various threads and other media, like conferences) that best
>>> approach to do that.
>>>
>>> Being constructive helps. Complaining that things are the way they are
>>> doesn't. Please be constructive.
>>>
>>> EdB
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>
Re: Starling + Flex
Posted by Carlos Rovira <ca...@codeoscopic.com>.
I'm with Alex that Flex actual codebase is very old. It relys on
things set up on Flash Professional 2004 (maybe even Flash MX). Then
Flex 1.x get that legacy, and then, again Flex 2.x to 4.x
Many of us would want to see changes inside the actual code base to
let our systems, applications and products evolve and not get
obsolete, but maybe that road is very painful since involves many
man/hours that maybe we don't have.
So as I put in other thread, we could think in start some refactor but
that would be mainly "maintenance mode" and not get all the
possibilities that we could get going a *new from scratch route".
Maintenance is needed, and the I assume we continue having AVM2 in
Flash Player as we continue to have AVM1 nowadays. So our legacy apps
will continue to live there. But we should start to think in the
future and that requires apply all what we know to a new framework.
2012/10/22 sébastien Paturel <se...@gmail.com>:
> Sorry for sharing my frustration, but i'm really trying to be constructive
> in the sens that i'm trying to get clear informations of the state of the
> framework, regarding, a multi target future.
> I was not talking about Adobe here, i was saying that, in the context of
> Alex talking about starting a new framework from scratch.
> I am not complaining about how the things are today, but about the lack of
> visibility of what is possible, and what is not for the future, about what
> is the state of discusison among commiters about such a subject etc.
>
>
> "discussing (on various threads and other media, like conferences) that best
> approach to do that."
> I'm happy to know that there are active discussions about it. But i'm sorry,
> i try to follow the ML since a few month, and i did not saw much about such
> deep discussions regarding a mutli target future.
> If it was the case, i would not be frustated (even if no definitive answer
> has been found yet)
> Instead i see other frustrated readers talking about "Apache model killing
> the project", "ghost town", "need of a roadmap"...
>
> Can you please give us a feedback of those conferences? Can you just give a
> quick update of the state of discussions and thoughts? and do you have any
> advise to help us keep track of those discussions, if the ML is not the
> right place?
>
> For now, to be constructive, i'm trying to understand:
> - What is the current vision of commiters regarding the future of flex, and
> the multi target possibilities? Thanks a lot to Alex to have shared a
> detailed explaination of his current toughts. I'd also love to see commiters
> answer to the thread "What is the essence of Flex".
> - What does it imply for flex as a mobile multi target SDK if it does not
> run on next Adobe runtime in the short term? (it depends on Adobe's plan
> regarding AIR runtime in fact)
> - What is the amount of work required to get flex run on starling? Is it
> manageable task (for major update) or does it imply big rewrite of SDK?
> - What is the list of dependancies that tie the SDk to flash platform?
> - Is there a realistic future for actual flex in middle term to be still
> multi target, or is it such a mess that starting from scratch is the only
> realistic way?
> ...
>
>
>
> Le 22/10/2012 08:46, Erik de Bruin a écrit :
>
>>> I feel that everything is going back in time. We're not talking about
>>> abandoning an old technology, to get new modern and better one, we're
>>> talking about abandoning a very efficient technology, with no alternative
>>> with the same level of possibilities.
>>
>> I can understand your frustration, but you're not talking to Adobe on
>> this list, you're talking to the contributors to Apache Flex. We
>> trying to find a way to take the framework forward and are discussing
>> (on various threads and other media, like conferences) that best
>> approach to do that.
>>
>> Being constructive helps. Complaining that things are the way they are
>> doesn't. Please be constructive.
>>
>> EdB
>>
>>
>>
>
--
Carlos Rovira
Director de Tecnología
M: +34 607 22 60 05
F: +34 912 35 57 77
http://www.codeoscopic.com
http://www.directwriter.es
http://www.avant2.es
Re: Starling + Flex
Posted by sébastien Paturel <se...@gmail.com>.
Sorry for sharing my frustration, but i'm really trying to be
constructive in the sens that i'm trying to get clear informations of
the state of the framework, regarding, a multi target future.
I was not talking about Adobe here, i was saying that, in the context of
Alex talking about starting a new framework from scratch.
I am not complaining about how the things are today, but about the lack
of visibility of what is possible, and what is not for the future, about
what is the state of discusison among commiters about such a subject etc.
"discussing (on various threads and other media, like conferences) that
best approach to do that."
I'm happy to know that there are active discussions about it. But i'm
sorry, i try to follow the ML since a few month, and i did not saw much
about such deep discussions regarding a mutli target future.
If it was the case, i would not be frustated (even if no definitive
answer has been found yet)
Instead i see other frustrated readers talking about "Apache model
killing the project", "ghost town", "need of a roadmap"...
Can you please give us a feedback of those conferences? Can you just
give a quick update of the state of discussions and thoughts? and do you
have any advise to help us keep track of those discussions, if the ML is
not the right place?
For now, to be constructive, i'm trying to understand:
- What is the current vision of commiters regarding the future of flex,
and the multi target possibilities? Thanks a lot to Alex to have shared
a detailed explaination of his current toughts. I'd also love to see
commiters answer to the thread "What is the essence of Flex".
- What does it imply for flex as a mobile multi target SDK if it does
not run on next Adobe runtime in the short term? (it depends on Adobe's
plan regarding AIR runtime in fact)
- What is the amount of work required to get flex run on starling? Is it
manageable task (for major update) or does it imply big rewrite of SDK?
- What is the list of dependancies that tie the SDk to flash platform?
- Is there a realistic future for actual flex in middle term to be still
multi target, or is it such a mess that starting from scratch is the
only realistic way?
...
Le 22/10/2012 08:46, Erik de Bruin a écrit :
>> I feel that everything is going back in time. We're not talking about
>> abandoning an old technology, to get new modern and better one, we're
>> talking about abandoning a very efficient technology, with no alternative
>> with the same level of possibilities.
> I can understand your frustration, but you're not talking to Adobe on
> this list, you're talking to the contributors to Apache Flex. We
> trying to find a way to take the framework forward and are discussing
> (on various threads and other media, like conferences) that best
> approach to do that.
>
> Being constructive helps. Complaining that things are the way they are
> doesn't. Please be constructive.
>
> EdB
>
>
>
Re: Starling + Flex
Posted by Erik de Bruin <er...@ixsoftware.nl>.
> I feel that everything is going back in time. We're not talking about
> abandoning an old technology, to get new modern and better one, we're
> talking about abandoning a very efficient technology, with no alternative
> with the same level of possibilities.
I can understand your frustration, but you're not talking to Adobe on
this list, you're talking to the contributors to Apache Flex. We
trying to find a way to take the framework forward and are discussing
(on various threads and other media, like conferences) that best
approach to do that.
Being constructive helps. Complaining that things are the way they are
doesn't. Please be constructive.
EdB
--
Ix Multimedia Software
Jan Luykenstraat 27
3521 VB Utrecht
T. 06-51952295
I. www.ixsoftware.nl
Re: Starling + Flex
Posted by Alex Harui <ah...@adobe.com>.
On 10/22/12 3:54 AM, "sébastien Paturel" <se...@gmail.com> wrote:
> * "But to me, right now, it is the ability to take some MXML tags, add some
> AS3 code and create an app."
> So you would still keep AS3? starting over, can be the perfect time to
> question the viability of such a choice?
AS4 and AVMNext are not stable enough to bank on. Plus, we need to maintain
the ability to target old players.
>
--
Alex Harui
Flex SDK Team
Adobe Systems, Inc.
http://blogs.adobe.com/aharui
Re: Starling + Flex
Posted by sébastien Paturel <se...@gmail.com>.
Thanks a lot Alex for sharing this,
thats such a discussion im looking for in the ML :)
i hope many commiters will join in
* "performance penalties on the new target"
its obvious, and you always have to choose between performances and ease
of deployment
* "granularity and extensibility ... two things are what folks want to try to do to the current framework, but it is a big mess to untangle."
What is the state of this discussion among commiters today? If i understand well, there is no consensus yet, and some are still trying to find a way to make it possible?
* "But to me, right now, it is the ability to take some MXML tags, add some AS3 code and create an app."
So you would still keep AS3? starting over, can be the perfect time to question the viability of such a choice?
Regarding the essence of flex, i would add that its also a great set of high level components.
* "backward compatibility, I think you have to give up on 100%"
I know but theres room between 100% compatibility and complete rewrite with new language and new API.
The only thinkg i want is to get the multi target effort, the more productive as possible.
* "get some bare-bones Flex-like framework up and running short-term, and grow it long-term. If we get enough community involvement, it may gain most of the things you miss from the existing framework."
I don't personnaly think that its a short term need either. if there is a transition plan with current Flex SDK for short term, and new SDk for long term, which will get as close to current flex as possible in term of needed features, its great plan for me either.
I was not worrying about short term for current flex until this new VM thing. I thought that flex could still use the Adobe's runtime for new device surfing on their Gaming shift, and with it, having the time to prepare the future even if it means to start from scratch.
If following Adobe's runtime for short term means to rewrite to AS4, its not an option. If it means to render on starling, it seems still realistic if i understand well.
* "a new Flex framework that has most of what the current Flex framework has"
If its realistic plan thats fine for me. Regarding the amount of work put in Adobe's flex, we will have to be quite creative to get the same features with less coding effort.
One of the drawback to start from scratch is that you will probably losse all the surrounding efforts like third party components and libs, or all the documentation and help forum threads.
and that is an issue if you keep the same name for a very different API.
* "not go all-in on the new framework"
I understand, my question was a bit stupid.
I just want that there is deep discussion about this subject, and that we see the feedback in ML.
* "Hopefully, we don't need to get that close to what Flex currently has in
order to be succesful."
I agree, thats more a matter of transition, like i said previously.
* "I'm not sure what your definition of "efficient" is. If it is developer
productivity, then you certainly have a point. I think the main draw of
Flex is that you can crank out an app pretty easily"
Thats exactly what meant :)
Thanks
Le 22/10/2012 02:47, Alex Harui a écrit :
> On 10/21/12 1:01 PM, "sébastien Paturel" <se...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> AVMNext may not worth it, but any other target would.
>> So you are saying that trying to patch the framework is too much hard
>> work to get it run on other targets?
> In the history of computing, I'm not clear there has ever been a 100%
> foolproof migration tool, at least one that didn't pay performance penalties
> on the new target.
>
>> And you'd better try to write a new one from scratch?
> My current thinking, which could certainly be completely reversed by what I
> learn over the next few days, is that you need to design for multiple
> targets in order to know what features of certain targets cannot be relied
> upon or over-used.
>
> IMO, any new framework would be simple, leverage as much of the target
> platform code as possible, and have granularity and extensibility via
> composition as primary principles. The latter two things are what folks
> want to try to do to the current framework, but it is a big mess to
> untangle. When you start over, you get to question how important every line
> of code is and whether what you are bringing over is in need of a re-design.
>> But why would it still be called Flex if it has nothing to do with
>> previous Flex SDK, and if it does not have backward compatibility etc
> Well, this is a better question for the "What is the essence of Flex"
> thread, and I hope to get a better sense of that from everyone on the list
> as we get feedback for any proposals. But to me, right now, it is the
> ability to take some MXML tags, add some AS3 code and create an app. But
> how important is, for example, skinning vs styling? Accessiblity? What else
> couldn't you live without?
>
> As far as backward compatibility, I think you have to give up on 100%
> backward compatibility. We have proven that most of you can learn Spark
> after MX so 100% compatibility is not required. And yes, a proposal should
> try to leverage as much existing knowledge as possible, but performance on
> the target is actually more important. And maybe some key features like
> accessibility.
>
>> Nothing could be used back from actual Flex, it would be such a waste,
>> and too much work to get back in the race of every other mature
>> frameworks...
>> Why would it even be written in AS3?
>> And without AS3 or easy transcoding solution, all previous Flex projects
>> already written have no future.
> I honestly don't see a way to magically transform existing Flex apps onto
> other targets in the short-term. And I'm not sure if we have to have it
> long-term. My current thinking is that we get some bare-bones Flex-like
> framework up and running short-term, and grow it long-term. If we get
> enough community involvement, it may gain most of the things you miss from
> the existing framework.
>
> One way of thinking about is this: If you have a large Flex app and want to
> target other platforms, how much work will it be to rewrite it in some other
> language and tool-chain, vs "re-write" it on a new Flex framework that has
> most of what the current Flex framework has? And if this new framework
> turns out to have benefits for new projects in terms of developer
> productivity, then we can even attract new developers.
>> And why is the community still waiting for every other Adobe's donation,
>> or trying to make mustella work if there's no future in all that?
> While all of this future talk is quite interesting, I am told that there are
> still a bunch of folks who are updating existing Flex apps and even starting
> new ones who desire bug fixes, performance improvements, and new components.
> The next series of Apache Flex releases should help these folks, and my
> current plan is to spend some portion of my time on these short-term issues
> and not go all-in on the new framework.
>> i'd love to get other commiter's vision of flex future.
>>
>> Alex, i 'll try to wait your detailed explanations after 360Min, but do
>> you really think it's realistic to start a new framework from scratch,
>> regarding all the hard work needed to get any close to what Flex offers?
> Hopefully, we don't need to get that close to what Flex currently has in
> order to be succesful.
>> I feel that everything is going back in time. We're not talking about
>> abandoning an old technology, to get new modern and better one, we're
>> talking about abandoning a very efficient technology, with no
>> alternative with the same level of possibilities.
> I'm not sure what your definition of "efficient" is. If it is developer
> productivity, then you certainly have a point. I think the main draw of
> Flex is that you can crank out an app pretty easily. But the code base is
> 10 years old, and I see lots of bad infrastructure in it and stuff that will
> be hard to make work on other targets. When I watch a Flex app startup in
> the profiler, I see anything but efficiency. I've tried to refactor
> UIComponent and found it daunting. I've tried starting over and found it
> promising.
>
Re: Starling + Flex
Posted by Alex Harui <ah...@adobe.com>.
On 10/21/12 1:01 PM, "sébastien Paturel" <se...@gmail.com> wrote:
> AVMNext may not worth it, but any other target would.
> So you are saying that trying to patch the framework is too much hard
> work to get it run on other targets?
In the history of computing, I'm not clear there has ever been a 100%
foolproof migration tool, at least one that didn't pay performance penalties
on the new target.
> And you'd better try to write a new one from scratch?
My current thinking, which could certainly be completely reversed by what I
learn over the next few days, is that you need to design for multiple
targets in order to know what features of certain targets cannot be relied
upon or over-used.
IMO, any new framework would be simple, leverage as much of the target
platform code as possible, and have granularity and extensibility via
composition as primary principles. The latter two things are what folks
want to try to do to the current framework, but it is a big mess to
untangle. When you start over, you get to question how important every line
of code is and whether what you are bringing over is in need of a re-design.
>
> But why would it still be called Flex if it has nothing to do with
> previous Flex SDK, and if it does not have backward compatibility etc
Well, this is a better question for the "What is the essence of Flex"
thread, and I hope to get a better sense of that from everyone on the list
as we get feedback for any proposals. But to me, right now, it is the
ability to take some MXML tags, add some AS3 code and create an app. But
how important is, for example, skinning vs styling? Accessiblity? What else
couldn't you live without?
As far as backward compatibility, I think you have to give up on 100%
backward compatibility. We have proven that most of you can learn Spark
after MX so 100% compatibility is not required. And yes, a proposal should
try to leverage as much existing knowledge as possible, but performance on
the target is actually more important. And maybe some key features like
accessibility.
> Nothing could be used back from actual Flex, it would be such a waste,
> and too much work to get back in the race of every other mature
> frameworks...
> Why would it even be written in AS3?
> And without AS3 or easy transcoding solution, all previous Flex projects
> already written have no future.
I honestly don't see a way to magically transform existing Flex apps onto
other targets in the short-term. And I'm not sure if we have to have it
long-term. My current thinking is that we get some bare-bones Flex-like
framework up and running short-term, and grow it long-term. If we get
enough community involvement, it may gain most of the things you miss from
the existing framework.
One way of thinking about is this: If you have a large Flex app and want to
target other platforms, how much work will it be to rewrite it in some other
language and tool-chain, vs "re-write" it on a new Flex framework that has
most of what the current Flex framework has? And if this new framework
turns out to have benefits for new projects in terms of developer
productivity, then we can even attract new developers.
>
> And why is the community still waiting for every other Adobe's donation,
> or trying to make mustella work if there's no future in all that?
While all of this future talk is quite interesting, I am told that there are
still a bunch of folks who are updating existing Flex apps and even starting
new ones who desire bug fixes, performance improvements, and new components.
The next series of Apache Flex releases should help these folks, and my
current plan is to spend some portion of my time on these short-term issues
and not go all-in on the new framework.
>
> i'd love to get other commiter's vision of flex future.
>
> Alex, i 'll try to wait your detailed explanations after 360Min, but do
> you really think it's realistic to start a new framework from scratch,
> regarding all the hard work needed to get any close to what Flex offers?
Hopefully, we don't need to get that close to what Flex currently has in
order to be succesful.
>
> I feel that everything is going back in time. We're not talking about
> abandoning an old technology, to get new modern and better one, we're
> talking about abandoning a very efficient technology, with no
> alternative with the same level of possibilities.
I'm not sure what your definition of "efficient" is. If it is developer
productivity, then you certainly have a point. I think the main draw of
Flex is that you can crank out an app pretty easily. But the code base is
10 years old, and I see lots of bad infrastructure in it and stuff that will
be hard to make work on other targets. When I watch a Flex app startup in
the profiler, I see anything but efficiency. I've tried to refactor
UIComponent and found it daunting. I've tried starting over and found it
promising.
--
Alex Harui
Flex SDK Team
Adobe Systems, Inc.
http://blogs.adobe.com/aharui
Re: Starling + Flex
Posted by sébastien Paturel <se...@gmail.com>.
AVMNext may not worth it, but any other target would.
So you are saying that trying to patch the framework is too much hard
work to get it run on other targets?
And you'd better try to write a new one from scratch?
But why would it still be called Flex if it has nothing to do with
previous Flex SDK, and if it does not have backward compatibility etc
Nothing could be used back from actual Flex, it would be such a waste,
and too much work to get back in the race of every other mature
frameworks...
Why would it even be written in AS3?
And without AS3 or easy transcoding solution, all previous Flex projects
already written have no future.
And why is the community still waiting for every other Adobe's donation,
or trying to make mustella work if there's no future in all that?
i'd love to get other commiter's vision of flex future.
Alex, i 'll try to wait your detailed explanations after 360Min, but do
you really think it's realistic to start a new framework from scratch,
regarding all the hard work needed to get any close to what Flex offers?
I feel that everything is going back in time. We're not talking about
abandoning an old technology, to get new modern and better one, we're
talking about abandoning a very efficient technology, with no
alternative with the same level of possibilities.
Le 21/10/2012 19:34, Alex Harui a écrit :
> The current Flex Framework is a very large code base that contains 50% code
> written for AS2 and then ported to AS3 and 50% code written with extra
> overhead to support Flash Catalyst.
>
> All of the code is written to work against the Sprite/DisplayList API.
>
> A straight up port will bring all of that baggage with us, and, because of
> the interdependencies in the code that is a vestige of what was required to
> get AS2 performance, it will be hard to do such a port in phases.
>
> I've been saying from the beginning of Apache Flex that it is time for a
> next-generation framework designed to be ported/transcoded/whatever to
> different targets, which could include AVMNext/AS4 if it proves worthwhile,
> but again, AVMNext doesn't have a good story around accessibility, so while
> you could write some simple UI to get someone to pay for your game, I'm not
> clear it upscales to true internet applications.
>
> What will that look like? I have some ideas, but I'm not totally sure yet,
> I hope to have some discussions on this at 360Min before bringing the ideas
> to the list.
>
> On 10/21/12 7:58 AM, "sébastien Paturel" <se...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Thanks for the update,
>> but why would it require a "fairly massive rewrite" exactly?
>> when you say "I would look at that" about feathersui, you mean as an
>> alternative to flex?
>>
>> its quite a bad news IMO. if flex can't "easely" target a new rendering
>> layer like starling, which stay in an Adobe runtime,
>> what is the future of flex as a multi platform framework, and especially
>> as a mobile SDK?
>>
>>
>>> After discussing with Thibault and spending time working on this I've
>>> determined that a fairly massive rewrite would be required. Shortly after
>>> they released http://feathersui.com/ and I will say that it is a nice bit
>>> of work. I would look at that.
>>>
>>> On Sat, Oct 20, 2012 at 8:40 AM, sébastien Paturel
>>> <se...@gmail.com>wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi jonathan,
>>>> What is the state of this very promising project?
>>>>
>>>> Le 14/06/2012 18:46, Jonathan Campos a écrit :
>>>>
>>>> Recently I've been getting aquatinted with Starling to see if it could
>>>>> work
>>>>> with Flex. After a few days of playing I think that it is possible but I
>>>>> do
>>>>> see the issues now and there is plenty of work that is necessary to make
>>>>> it
>>>>> happen.
>>>>>
>>>>> To get things going I basically cut down the UIComponent (to the parts
>>>>> that
>>>>> I cared about), made a copy of the entire Flex framework (as many
>>>>> interfaces rely on DisplayObject, etc), replaced them with Starling
>>>>> classes, rebuilt some of the Spark primitives, and "adjusted" some of the
>>>>> starling classes to fit some of the Flash interfaces.
>>>>>
>>>>> At this point I'm definitely going to wait to get the 4.8 release out
>>>>> before giving this more time but I think it is possible. I'm sure other
>>>>> developers are already aware of it but if we could make some new
>>>>> interfaces
>>>>> such as an IDisplayObject it would be much easier switching out
>>>>> DisplayObject for a Starling DisplayObject.
>>>>>
>>>>> Just thinking out loud at this point.
>>>>>
>>>>>
Re: Starling + Flex
Posted by Alex Harui <ah...@adobe.com>.
The current Flex Framework is a very large code base that contains 50% code
written for AS2 and then ported to AS3 and 50% code written with extra
overhead to support Flash Catalyst.
All of the code is written to work against the Sprite/DisplayList API.
A straight up port will bring all of that baggage with us, and, because of
the interdependencies in the code that is a vestige of what was required to
get AS2 performance, it will be hard to do such a port in phases.
I've been saying from the beginning of Apache Flex that it is time for a
next-generation framework designed to be ported/transcoded/whatever to
different targets, which could include AVMNext/AS4 if it proves worthwhile,
but again, AVMNext doesn't have a good story around accessibility, so while
you could write some simple UI to get someone to pay for your game, I'm not
clear it upscales to true internet applications.
What will that look like? I have some ideas, but I'm not totally sure yet,
I hope to have some discussions on this at 360Min before bringing the ideas
to the list.
On 10/21/12 7:58 AM, "sébastien Paturel" <se...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Thanks for the update,
> but why would it require a "fairly massive rewrite" exactly?
> when you say "I would look at that" about feathersui, you mean as an
> alternative to flex?
>
> its quite a bad news IMO. if flex can't "easely" target a new rendering
> layer like starling, which stay in an Adobe runtime,
> what is the future of flex as a multi platform framework, and especially
> as a mobile SDK?
>
>
>> After discussing with Thibault and spending time working on this I've
>> determined that a fairly massive rewrite would be required. Shortly after
>> they released http://feathersui.com/ and I will say that it is a nice bit
>> of work. I would look at that.
>>
>> On Sat, Oct 20, 2012 at 8:40 AM, sébastien Paturel
>> <se...@gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>> Hi jonathan,
>>> What is the state of this very promising project?
>>>
>>> Le 14/06/2012 18:46, Jonathan Campos a écrit :
>>>
>>> Recently I've been getting aquatinted with Starling to see if it could
>>>> work
>>>> with Flex. After a few days of playing I think that it is possible but I
>>>> do
>>>> see the issues now and there is plenty of work that is necessary to make
>>>> it
>>>> happen.
>>>>
>>>> To get things going I basically cut down the UIComponent (to the parts
>>>> that
>>>> I cared about), made a copy of the entire Flex framework (as many
>>>> interfaces rely on DisplayObject, etc), replaced them with Starling
>>>> classes, rebuilt some of the Spark primitives, and "adjusted" some of the
>>>> starling classes to fit some of the Flash interfaces.
>>>>
>>>> At this point I'm definitely going to wait to get the 4.8 release out
>>>> before giving this more time but I think it is possible. I'm sure other
>>>> developers are already aware of it but if we could make some new
>>>> interfaces
>>>> such as an IDisplayObject it would be much easier switching out
>>>> DisplayObject for a Starling DisplayObject.
>>>>
>>>> Just thinking out loud at this point.
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>
--
Alex Harui
Flex SDK Team
Adobe Systems, Inc.
http://blogs.adobe.com/aharui
Re: Starling + Flex
Posted by sébastien Paturel <se...@gmail.com>.
Thanks for the update,
but why would it require a "fairly massive rewrite" exactly?
when you say "I would look at that" about feathersui, you mean as an
alternative to flex?
its quite a bad news IMO. if flex can't "easely" target a new rendering
layer like starling, which stay in an Adobe runtime,
what is the future of flex as a multi platform framework, and especially
as a mobile SDK?
> After discussing with Thibault and spending time working on this I've
> determined that a fairly massive rewrite would be required. Shortly after
> they released http://feathersui.com/ and I will say that it is a nice bit
> of work. I would look at that.
>
> On Sat, Oct 20, 2012 at 8:40 AM, sébastien Paturel
> <se...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Hi jonathan,
>> What is the state of this very promising project?
>>
>> Le 14/06/2012 18:46, Jonathan Campos a écrit :
>>
>> Recently I've been getting aquatinted with Starling to see if it could
>>> work
>>> with Flex. After a few days of playing I think that it is possible but I
>>> do
>>> see the issues now and there is plenty of work that is necessary to make
>>> it
>>> happen.
>>>
>>> To get things going I basically cut down the UIComponent (to the parts
>>> that
>>> I cared about), made a copy of the entire Flex framework (as many
>>> interfaces rely on DisplayObject, etc), replaced them with Starling
>>> classes, rebuilt some of the Spark primitives, and "adjusted" some of the
>>> starling classes to fit some of the Flash interfaces.
>>>
>>> At this point I'm definitely going to wait to get the 4.8 release out
>>> before giving this more time but I think it is possible. I'm sure other
>>> developers are already aware of it but if we could make some new
>>> interfaces
>>> such as an IDisplayObject it would be much easier switching out
>>> DisplayObject for a Starling DisplayObject.
>>>
>>> Just thinking out loud at this point.
>>>
>>>
>
Re: Starling + Flex
Posted by Jonathan Campos <jo...@gmail.com>.
After discussing with Thibault and spending time working on this I've
determined that a fairly massive rewrite would be required. Shortly after
they released http://feathersui.com/ and I will say that it is a nice bit
of work. I would look at that.
On Sat, Oct 20, 2012 at 8:40 AM, sébastien Paturel
<se...@gmail.com>wrote:
> Hi jonathan,
> What is the state of this very promising project?
>
> Le 14/06/2012 18:46, Jonathan Campos a écrit :
>
> Recently I've been getting aquatinted with Starling to see if it could
>> work
>> with Flex. After a few days of playing I think that it is possible but I
>> do
>> see the issues now and there is plenty of work that is necessary to make
>> it
>> happen.
>>
>> To get things going I basically cut down the UIComponent (to the parts
>> that
>> I cared about), made a copy of the entire Flex framework (as many
>> interfaces rely on DisplayObject, etc), replaced them with Starling
>> classes, rebuilt some of the Spark primitives, and "adjusted" some of the
>> starling classes to fit some of the Flash interfaces.
>>
>> At this point I'm definitely going to wait to get the 4.8 release out
>> before giving this more time but I think it is possible. I'm sure other
>> developers are already aware of it but if we could make some new
>> interfaces
>> such as an IDisplayObject it would be much easier switching out
>> DisplayObject for a Starling DisplayObject.
>>
>> Just thinking out loud at this point.
>>
>>
>
--
Jonathan Campos
Re: Starling + Flex
Posted by sébastien Paturel <se...@gmail.com>.
Hi jonathan,
What is the state of this very promising project?
Le 14/06/2012 18:46, Jonathan Campos a écrit :
> Recently I've been getting aquatinted with Starling to see if it could work
> with Flex. After a few days of playing I think that it is possible but I do
> see the issues now and there is plenty of work that is necessary to make it
> happen.
>
> To get things going I basically cut down the UIComponent (to the parts that
> I cared about), made a copy of the entire Flex framework (as many
> interfaces rely on DisplayObject, etc), replaced them with Starling
> classes, rebuilt some of the Spark primitives, and "adjusted" some of the
> starling classes to fit some of the Flash interfaces.
>
> At this point I'm definitely going to wait to get the 4.8 release out
> before giving this more time but I think it is possible. I'm sure other
> developers are already aware of it but if we could make some new interfaces
> such as an IDisplayObject it would be much easier switching out
> DisplayObject for a Starling DisplayObject.
>
> Just thinking out loud at this point.
>