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Posted to users@httpd.apache.org by Rick Moen <ri...@linuxmafia.com> on 2004/03/21 05:58:40 UTC
[users@httpd] Please fix http://httpd.apache.org/userslist.html
I'm trying to reach the maintainer of this mailing list's informational
Web page, http://httpd.apache.org/userslist.html . Up near the top, the
page includes the following:
Ask smart questions:
Eric Raymond has written a very useful guide to Asking Questions the
Smart Way. [link to http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html]
There are some problems:
1. I _co-wrote_ that piece, as you'll see in its header. Please add my
name to your page's author credit.
2. People keep e-mailing me Apache httpd technical questions, sometimes
several per day. Two examples are included below. Would you please
put a prominent notice on that page asking people NOT to do that?
Earlier, I went through this same damned hassle with the Jakarta
Project, and they eventually changed their user list's page
(http://jakarta.apache.org/site/mail.html) as follows:
Eric Raymond and Rick Moen have even written an essay entitled "Asking
Smart Questions" precisely on this topic. Although somewhat militant,
it is definitely worth reading. Note: Please do NOT send your Java
problems to the two authors. They welcome feedback on the FAQ's
contents, but are simply not a Java help resource. Follow the essay's
advice and choose your forum carefully.
You could do something like that.
3. Your German-language mailing list has the same problem
(http://httpd.apache.org/usersdelist.html). Would you please ask the
maintainer of _that_ page to also post a prominent notice?
I'm not 100% sure those are the Apache httpd project's only two links to
my and Eric's essay. As you'll see from what follows, I keep asking
these people writing me _what URL_ they found my address on, and they
never give straight answers. Anyway:
4. If you guys have any _other_ links to "How to Ask Questions the
Smart Way", PLEASE put prominent notices on them not to send Apache
questions to the authors.
Thank you.
From: Sohail <so...@btinternet.com>
To: rick@linuxmafia.com
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 14:35:52 -0000
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106
Subject: hiya
hi there,
my server apache both 1.3 and 2.0 never work for session start rather
give me this message below, can u help me please.
i was only making a login page with session_start() in the beginning, writing it
before <html> tag. i am waiting please.
reply me at msbjhandeer@yahoo.com cheers bye.
Warning: session_start():
open(/tmp\sess_0345f232227b456a985460df421f4a74,
O_RDWR) failed: No such file or directory (2) in c:\program files\apache
group\apache\htdocs\examples\login.php on line 1
Warning: session_start(): Cannot send session cookie - headers already sent by
(output started at c:\program files\apache
group\apache\htdocs\examples\login.php:1) in c:\program files\apache
group\apache\htdocs\examples\login.php on line 1
Warning: session_start(): Cannot send session cache limiter - headers
already
sent (output started at c:\program files\apache
group\apache\htdocs\examples\login.php:1) in c:\program files\apache
group\apache\htdocs\examples\login.php on line 1
Login Page
Username:
Password:
Warning: Unknown(): open(/tmp\sess_0345f232227b456a985460df421f4a74, O_RDWR)
failed: No such file or directory (2) in Unknown on line 0
Warning: Unknown(): Failed to write session data (files). Please verify that the
current setting of session.save_path is correct (/tmp) in Unknown on line 0
From: Ken Carlson <wi...@revealed.net>
To: Rick Moen <ri...@linuxmafia.com>
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 09:24:02 -0600
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158
Subject:
http://httpd.apache.org/docs/misc/FAQ.html#CGIoutsideScriptAlias
Rick:
I found your email as a derivative of this
webpage:
http://httpd.apache.org/docs/misc/FAQ.html#CGIoutsideScriptAlias
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick Moen" <ri...@linuxmafia.com>
To: "Ken Carlson" <wi...@revealed.net>
Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 10:32 PM
Subject: Re: php and mysql problems
> Quoting Ken Carlson (wireless3jc@revealed.net):
>
> > Rick: I don't know how to configure my apache 4.3
> > httpd.conf file to run php and mysql? Is the
> > script alias section where I define this action?
>
> Ken, I'm assuming you must have found some Web page (on an Apache
> Project Web site? On a PHP Project Web site? On a MySQL Web site?)
> that points to my and Eric Raymond's essay "How to Ask Questions the
> Smart Way", right? Would you be good enough to tell me _what_ Web
> page?
>
> Why? Because I desparately need to get that webmaster to put a
> bold-type notice saying "Please don't send your {Apache|PHP|MySQL}
> questions to these guys; they _only_ wrote this nice essay."
>
> Thanks.
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Re: [users@httpd] Please fix http://httpd.apache.org/userslist.html
Posted by Rick Moen <ri...@linuxmafia.com>.
Quoting Joshua Slive (joshua@slive.ca):
> We will change our links as you request, but let me just reiterate my
> suggestion in slightly more forceful language. Given our user to
> developer ratio, we here at Apache have quite a bit of experience
> trying to design pages to avoid problems with clueless users. Your page
> (especially Eric's version, but even the one you suggest above) is very
> poorly designed for that purpose. Clueless people do not read web pages;
> they skim. So you need to make sure that the first thing they see when
> they skim is the disclaimer, and certainly *not* your email address. Your
> email address should go at the bottom.
You know, I have a systematic fix, and have just implemented it:
I've created an autoresponder (mail infobot), and am listing that as my
mailto address in the essay. (Well, the version on _my_ site, anyway.
I'll need to ask Eric to make the change on the copy at catb.org.)
It took me a few days to get around to that, because I've been out of
town on business, and then wanted to make _very_ sure I didn't create
mail loops, system security holes, or other problems. Sorry about the
delayed response.
> Anyway, thanks for the great resource.
Yr. very welcome!
--
Cheers, "Don't use Outlook. Outlook is really just a security
Rick Moen hole with a small e-mail client attached to it."
rick@linuxmafia.com -- Brian Trosko in r.a.sf.w.r-j
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Re: [users@httpd] Please fix http://httpd.apache.org/userslist.html
Posted by Joshua Slive <jo...@slive.ca>.
On Sun, 21 Mar 2004, Rick Moen wrote:
> > I do have a suggestion for you: Absolutely the first thing you see on
> > your page is your email address, while the actual content (including
> > disclaimer) doesn't come until you page-down about five times. I bet at
> > least 90% of the problem would go away if you simply moved your email
> > address to the bottom of the page.
>
> I'm pretty sure the reason Eric doesn't do that is that the format is
> enforced by the DocBook Document Type Descriptions (DTDs). However, you
> could link, instead, to my pure-HTML version of the essay, at
> http://linuxmafia.com/faq/Essays/smart-questions.html , which I've
> rearranged a bit (moving version history to the bottom).
> Mind you, I have to deal with this sort of
> idiotic behaviour _every_ time any software project, anywhere in the
> world, links to the essay. So, I hear from the cretinous element of
> hundreds of software communities. Inevitably, they see nothing wrong
> with what they've done, and "just need help with one question".
We will change our links as you request, but let me just reiterate my
suggestion in slightly more forceful language. Given our user to
developer ratio, we here at Apache have quite a bit of experience
trying to design pages to avoid problems with clueless users. Your page
(especially Eric's version, but even the one you suggest above) is very
poorly designed for that purpose. Clueless people do not read web pages;
they skim. So you need to make sure that the first thing they see when
they skim is the disclaimer, and certainly *not* your email address. Your
email address should go at the bottom.
I'm fairly certain that such a change would have a much larger effect than
any note we put on our end (which clueless users may just skip over
anyway). Plus it will help you for every project that links to your page,
not just ours.
Anyway, thanks for the great resource.
Joshua.
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Re: [users@httpd] Please fix http://httpd.apache.org/userslist.html
Posted by Rick Moen <ri...@linuxmafia.com>.
Quoting Joshua Slive (joshua@slive.ca):
> [Top-posting to retain whole thread... See below.]
I've temporarily joined docs@ , but am no longer on users@, and so have
snipped that address for this reply.
Hi, Joshua. Sorry about breaking threading (and going off-list), but I
was only on httpd-users long enough to post my request. Greetings from
Austrian-ruled California.
> I really don't remember your name being there originally. Has the
> authorship changed over time?
The authorship hasn't, but the listing of authors has. Eric and I
originally were working on separate projects to write such an essay and
then joined forces. Having been the one to code the DocBook SGML, Eric
(perhaps a bit oddly) at first listed only his own name as author. The
essay remained that way for about its first year of existence, during
which time I repeatedly had people quote _my own text_ to me, in my own
very distinctive writing style. (If you discern two different "voices"
in the essay, as I can, that's why.)
I mentioned to Eric several times how extremely annoying it was, when
that happened. He kept saying it was impractical to hack the DocBook
stylesheet to support two author credits, but eventually did so.
> I do have a suggestion for you: Absolutely the first thing you see on
> your page is your email address, while the actual content (including
> disclaimer) doesn't come until you page-down about five times. I bet at
> least 90% of the problem would go away if you simply moved your email
> address to the bottom of the page.
I'm pretty sure the reason Eric doesn't do that is that the format is
enforced by the DocBook Document Type Descriptions (DTDs). However, you
could link, instead, to my pure-HTML version of the essay, at
http://linuxmafia.com/faq/Essays/smart-questions.html , which I've
rearranged a bit (moving version history to the bottom).
Anyhow, I've just noticed that the Apache httpd Project pages I
mentioned...
http://httpd.apache.org/userslist.html
http://httpd.apache.org/usersdelist.html
...are more-or-less subpages of this text:
http://httpd.apache.org/lists.html#http-users
The latter page, thankfully, has a short-and-sweet warning to not send
questions to the author (singular) of the essay -- which is perfect,
other than (likewise) referring just to Eric as author.
So, you might want to use the warning text from _that_ page. If you'll
also fix the author credit there, it would be appreciated. And you're
welcome to link to my site's rendition of the essay (URL above), if you
wish.
> It is really incredible how ... stupid ... (I can't think of a better
> word) people can be when searching for answers to a technical problem.
Yes, frankly I'm amazed at the presumption of writing to an individual
for free-of-charge technical assistance for an open-source project
maintained by a community. Mind you, I have to deal with this sort of
idiotic behaviour _every_ time any software project, anywhere in the
world, links to the essay. So, I hear from the cretinous element of
hundreds of software communities. Inevitably, they see nothing wrong
with what they've done, and "just need help with one question".
It takes a great deal of forebearance to not rip the sender a new one --
though I have actually sent in formal complaints about one or two of the
verbally abusive ones, and gotten their Internet access revoked.
--
Cheers, Founding member of the Hyphenation Society, a grassroots-based,
Rick Moen not-for-profit, locally-owned-and-operated, cooperatively-managed,
rick@linuxmafia.com modern-American-English-usage-improvement association.
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Re: [users@httpd] Please fix http://httpd.apache.org/userslist.html
Posted by Joshua Slive <jo...@slive.ca>.
[Top-posting to retain whole thread... See below.]
Sorry about that Rick. I'm the one who originally placed that link
(although I got it from the Jakarta project's page). I really don't
remember your name being there originally. Has the authorship changed
over time?
It is really incredible how ... stupid ... (I can't think of a better
word) people can be when searching for answers to a technical problem.
You'll notice that we have almost no email addresses on the apache site
for exactly this reason. No matter what you say, some people will just
keep clicking until they find an email address, then send to it regardless
of what it is meant for. (You should see all the email and bug reports we
get from people claiming that "apache stole my website!".)
I do have a suggestion for you: Absolutely the first thing you see on your
page is your email address, while the actual content (including
disclaimer) doesn't come until you page-down about five times. I bet at
least 90% of the problem would go away if you simply moved your email
address to the bottom of the page.
Anyway, I'm copying this message to our docs list. Hopefully someone
there has the time to quickly update these pages as you requested. If
not, I'll get to it sometime next week.
Joshua.
On Sat, 20 Mar 2004, Rick Moen wrote:
> I'm trying to reach the maintainer of this mailing list's informational
> Web page, http://httpd.apache.org/userslist.html . Up near the top, the
> page includes the following:
>
> Ask smart questions:
> Eric Raymond has written a very useful guide to Asking Questions the
> Smart Way. [link to http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html]
>
> There are some problems:
>
> 1. I _co-wrote_ that piece, as you'll see in its header. Please add my
> name to your page's author credit.
>
> 2. People keep e-mailing me Apache httpd technical questions, sometimes
> several per day. Two examples are included below. Would you please
> put a prominent notice on that page asking people NOT to do that?
>
> Earlier, I went through this same damned hassle with the Jakarta
> Project, and they eventually changed their user list's page
> (http://jakarta.apache.org/site/mail.html) as follows:
>
> Eric Raymond and Rick Moen have even written an essay entitled "Asking
> Smart Questions" precisely on this topic. Although somewhat militant,
> it is definitely worth reading. Note: Please do NOT send your Java
> problems to the two authors. They welcome feedback on the FAQ's
> contents, but are simply not a Java help resource. Follow the essay's
> advice and choose your forum carefully.
>
> You could do something like that.
>
> 3. Your German-language mailing list has the same problem
> (http://httpd.apache.org/usersdelist.html). Would you please ask the
> maintainer of _that_ page to also post a prominent notice?
>
> I'm not 100% sure those are the Apache httpd project's only two links to
> my and Eric's essay. As you'll see from what follows, I keep asking
> these people writing me _what URL_ they found my address on, and they
> never give straight answers. Anyway:
>
> 4. If you guys have any _other_ links to "How to Ask Questions the
> Smart Way", PLEASE put prominent notices on them not to send Apache
> questions to the authors.
>
> Thank you.
>
>
>
>
> From: Sohail <so...@btinternet.com>
> To: rick@linuxmafia.com
> Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 14:35:52 -0000
> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106
> Subject: hiya
>
> hi there,
> my server apache both 1.3 and 2.0 never work for session start rather
> give me this message below, can u help me please.
> i was only making a login page with session_start() in the beginning, writing it
> before <html> tag. i am waiting please.
> reply me at msbjhandeer@yahoo.com cheers bye.
>
> Warning: session_start():
> open(/tmp\sess_0345f232227b456a985460df421f4a74,
> O_RDWR) failed: No such file or directory (2) in c:\program files\apache
> group\apache\htdocs\examples\login.php on line 1
>
> Warning: session_start(): Cannot send session cookie - headers already sent by
> (output started at c:\program files\apache
> group\apache\htdocs\examples\login.php:1) in c:\program files\apache
> group\apache\htdocs\examples\login.php on line 1
>
> Warning: session_start(): Cannot send session cache limiter - headers
> already
> sent (output started at c:\program files\apache
> group\apache\htdocs\examples\login.php:1) in c:\program files\apache
> group\apache\htdocs\examples\login.php on line 1
>
> Login Page
> Username:
> Password:
>
>
> Warning: Unknown(): open(/tmp\sess_0345f232227b456a985460df421f4a74, O_RDWR)
> failed: No such file or directory (2) in Unknown on line 0
>
> Warning: Unknown(): Failed to write session data (files). Please verify that the
> current setting of session.save_path is correct (/tmp) in Unknown on line 0
>
>
>
> From: Ken Carlson <wi...@revealed.net>
> To: Rick Moen <ri...@linuxmafia.com>
> Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 09:24:02 -0600
> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158
> Subject:
> http://httpd.apache.org/docs/misc/FAQ.html#CGIoutsideScriptAlias
>
> Rick:
> I found your email as a derivative of this
> webpage:
>
> http://httpd.apache.org/docs/misc/FAQ.html#CGIoutsideScriptAlias
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Rick Moen" <ri...@linuxmafia.com>
> To: "Ken Carlson" <wi...@revealed.net>
> Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 10:32 PM
> Subject: Re: php and mysql problems
>
>
> > Quoting Ken Carlson (wireless3jc@revealed.net):
> >
> > > Rick: I don't know how to configure my apache 4.3
> > > httpd.conf file to run php and mysql? Is the
> > > script alias section where I define this action?
> >
> > Ken, I'm assuming you must have found some Web page (on an Apache
> > Project Web site? On a PHP Project Web site? On a MySQL Web site?)
> > that points to my and Eric Raymond's essay "How to Ask Questions the
> > Smart Way", right? Would you be good enough to tell me _what_ Web
> > page?
> >
> > Why? Because I desparately need to get that webmaster to put a
> > bold-type notice saying "Please don't send your {Apache|PHP|MySQL}
> > questions to these guys; they _only_ wrote this nice essay."
> >
> > Thanks.
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> The official User-To-User support forum of the Apache HTTP Server Project.
> See <URL:http://httpd.apache.org/userslist.html> for more info.
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@httpd.apache.org
> " from the digest: users-digest-unsubscribe@httpd.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@httpd.apache.org
>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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See <URL:http://httpd.apache.org/userslist.html> for more info.
To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@httpd.apache.org
" from the digest: users-digest-unsubscribe@httpd.apache.org
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Re: [users@httpd] Please fix http://httpd.apache.org/userslist.html
Posted by Joshua Slive <jo...@slive.ca>.
[Top-posting to retain whole thread... See below.]
Sorry about that Rick. I'm the one who originally placed that link
(although I got it from the Jakarta project's page). I really don't
remember your name being there originally. Has the authorship changed
over time?
It is really incredible how ... stupid ... (I can't think of a better
word) people can be when searching for answers to a technical problem.
You'll notice that we have almost no email addresses on the apache site
for exactly this reason. No matter what you say, some people will just
keep clicking until they find an email address, then send to it regardless
of what it is meant for. (You should see all the email and bug reports we
get from people claiming that "apache stole my website!".)
I do have a suggestion for you: Absolutely the first thing you see on your
page is your email address, while the actual content (including
disclaimer) doesn't come until you page-down about five times. I bet at
least 90% of the problem would go away if you simply moved your email
address to the bottom of the page.
Anyway, I'm copying this message to our docs list. Hopefully someone
there has the time to quickly update these pages as you requested. If
not, I'll get to it sometime next week.
Joshua.
On Sat, 20 Mar 2004, Rick Moen wrote:
> I'm trying to reach the maintainer of this mailing list's informational
> Web page, http://httpd.apache.org/userslist.html . Up near the top, the
> page includes the following:
>
> Ask smart questions:
> Eric Raymond has written a very useful guide to Asking Questions the
> Smart Way. [link to http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html]
>
> There are some problems:
>
> 1. I _co-wrote_ that piece, as you'll see in its header. Please add my
> name to your page's author credit.
>
> 2. People keep e-mailing me Apache httpd technical questions, sometimes
> several per day. Two examples are included below. Would you please
> put a prominent notice on that page asking people NOT to do that?
>
> Earlier, I went through this same damned hassle with the Jakarta
> Project, and they eventually changed their user list's page
> (http://jakarta.apache.org/site/mail.html) as follows:
>
> Eric Raymond and Rick Moen have even written an essay entitled "Asking
> Smart Questions" precisely on this topic. Although somewhat militant,
> it is definitely worth reading. Note: Please do NOT send your Java
> problems to the two authors. They welcome feedback on the FAQ's
> contents, but are simply not a Java help resource. Follow the essay's
> advice and choose your forum carefully.
>
> You could do something like that.
>
> 3. Your German-language mailing list has the same problem
> (http://httpd.apache.org/usersdelist.html). Would you please ask the
> maintainer of _that_ page to also post a prominent notice?
>
> I'm not 100% sure those are the Apache httpd project's only two links to
> my and Eric's essay. As you'll see from what follows, I keep asking
> these people writing me _what URL_ they found my address on, and they
> never give straight answers. Anyway:
>
> 4. If you guys have any _other_ links to "How to Ask Questions the
> Smart Way", PLEASE put prominent notices on them not to send Apache
> questions to the authors.
>
> Thank you.
>
>
>
>
> From: Sohail <so...@btinternet.com>
> To: rick@linuxmafia.com
> Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 14:35:52 -0000
> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106
> Subject: hiya
>
> hi there,
> my server apache both 1.3 and 2.0 never work for session start rather
> give me this message below, can u help me please.
> i was only making a login page with session_start() in the beginning, writing it
> before <html> tag. i am waiting please.
> reply me at msbjhandeer@yahoo.com cheers bye.
>
> Warning: session_start():
> open(/tmp\sess_0345f232227b456a985460df421f4a74,
> O_RDWR) failed: No such file or directory (2) in c:\program files\apache
> group\apache\htdocs\examples\login.php on line 1
>
> Warning: session_start(): Cannot send session cookie - headers already sent by
> (output started at c:\program files\apache
> group\apache\htdocs\examples\login.php:1) in c:\program files\apache
> group\apache\htdocs\examples\login.php on line 1
>
> Warning: session_start(): Cannot send session cache limiter - headers
> already
> sent (output started at c:\program files\apache
> group\apache\htdocs\examples\login.php:1) in c:\program files\apache
> group\apache\htdocs\examples\login.php on line 1
>
> Login Page
> Username:
> Password:
>
>
> Warning: Unknown(): open(/tmp\sess_0345f232227b456a985460df421f4a74, O_RDWR)
> failed: No such file or directory (2) in Unknown on line 0
>
> Warning: Unknown(): Failed to write session data (files). Please verify that the
> current setting of session.save_path is correct (/tmp) in Unknown on line 0
>
>
>
> From: Ken Carlson <wi...@revealed.net>
> To: Rick Moen <ri...@linuxmafia.com>
> Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 09:24:02 -0600
> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158
> Subject:
> http://httpd.apache.org/docs/misc/FAQ.html#CGIoutsideScriptAlias
>
> Rick:
> I found your email as a derivative of this
> webpage:
>
> http://httpd.apache.org/docs/misc/FAQ.html#CGIoutsideScriptAlias
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Rick Moen" <ri...@linuxmafia.com>
> To: "Ken Carlson" <wi...@revealed.net>
> Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 10:32 PM
> Subject: Re: php and mysql problems
>
>
> > Quoting Ken Carlson (wireless3jc@revealed.net):
> >
> > > Rick: I don't know how to configure my apache 4.3
> > > httpd.conf file to run php and mysql? Is the
> > > script alias section where I define this action?
> >
> > Ken, I'm assuming you must have found some Web page (on an Apache
> > Project Web site? On a PHP Project Web site? On a MySQL Web site?)
> > that points to my and Eric Raymond's essay "How to Ask Questions the
> > Smart Way", right? Would you be good enough to tell me _what_ Web
> > page?
> >
> > Why? Because I desparately need to get that webmaster to put a
> > bold-type notice saying "Please don't send your {Apache|PHP|MySQL}
> > questions to these guys; they _only_ wrote this nice essay."
> >
> > Thanks.
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> The official User-To-User support forum of the Apache HTTP Server Project.
> See <URL:http://httpd.apache.org/userslist.html> for more info.
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@httpd.apache.org
> " from the digest: users-digest-unsubscribe@httpd.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@httpd.apache.org
>
>
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