Tuscany IRC Log (April-19-2006)

[Jean-Sebastien Delfino <js...@apache.org>]

(12:00:25 PM) *jsdelfino:* hi all
(12:00:42 PM) *jsdelfino:* it's 12pm PT, 3pm ET, 20h GMT
(12:00:49 PM) *jsdelfino:* time to continue yesterday's chat?
(12:00:51 PM) *jmarino:* k I'm going to be doing more refactors there 
too. Have you submited your stuff as a patch yet?
(12:01:02 PM) *jmarino:* Dan let's follow-up later
(12:01:37 PM) *dkulp:* Jim, yep. JIRA issue created. We can chat more later.
(12:01:41 PM) *jsdelfino:* should we continue where we left off yesterday?
(12:01:52 PM) *jmarino:* works for me
(12:01:55 PM) *ant_:* subsystem wiring?
(12:02:06 PM) *jsdelfino:* yes
(12:02:14 PM)* rfeng [/n=Raymond@bi01p1.co.us.ibm.com/] entered the room.*
(12:02:44 PM) *jsdelfino:* I'm gonna ask the usual question :) any 
questions on the contenta? in/out? who volunteers? when?
(12:03:04 PM) *ant_:* the question was should we do it if the specs 
going to change
(12:03:14 PM) *jmarino:* yes specs will change
(12:03:30 PM) *ant_:* but when can we expect a new spec?
(12:03:32 PM) *jmarino:* sorry misread your sentence
(12:03:44 PM) *jmarino:* well we're talking about it next week
(12:03:50 PM) *rfeng:* are we talking about the subsystem?
(12:04:03 PM) *jmarino:* not sure if all the issues will be fleshed out 
by then
(12:04:04 PM) *jsdelfino:* yes subsystem
(12:04:16 PM) *jmarino:* but I'm pretty certain things are going to change
(12:04:31 PM) *jmarino:* and not to long from now
(12:04:40 PM) *jmarino:* too
(12:05:04 PM) *jsdelfino:* which level of the spec are we supporting for 
the JavaOne release? I was assuming 0.9
(12:06:26 PM) *jboynes:* I don't think we should claim to support any level
(12:07:03 PM)* haleh [/n=hmahbod@c-24-6-102-194.hsd1.ca.comcast.net/] 
entered the room.*
(12:07:21 PM) *jsdelfino:* what are you suggesting then? don't we need 
to be able to point users to a spec doc and outline the differences / 
limitations in tuscany?
(12:07:24 PM) *jboynes:* our doco should cover what we do and we only 
point folk at the spec for information
(12:08:11 PM) *jboynes:* I'm working on the premis that most users don't 
read specs and that our doco should cover what we do
(12:08:35 PM) *jboynes:* (IMO specs are written in spec-ese which is not 
designed for normal humans)
(12:08:52 PM) *jsdelfino:* ok, I can add this to the Wiki task list: 
write documentation covering the PM we support in this Tuscany release?
(12:09:04 PM) *jboynes:* +1
(12:09:45 PM) *jsdelfino:* +1 from me to add to the task list, any votes 
from the rest of the group?
(12:09:55 PM) *rfeng:* +1 for the doc
(12:10:19 PM) *jboynes:* any volunteers for writing the doc?
(12:10:23 PM) *ant_:* doc is great +1, but is there a volunteer?
(12:11:02 PM) *haleh:* I help if I get enough content from you
(12:11:38 PM) *rfeng:* what's the decision for the subsystem support? 
get 0.9 working or defer it until the spec is mature in this space?
(12:12:19 PM) *jsdelfino:* let's close the doc discussion first maybe 
and then we can go back to the subsystem question
(12:12:57 PM) *jsdelfino:* so far, looks like +1 [in] for this doc, 
haleh volunteers, but needs another volunteer to provide the tech content
(12:13:23 PM) *jmarino:* I'll provide some too
(12:13:34 PM) *jboynes:* I've started doco on the APIs but I think that 
will keep me busy
(12:13:46 PM) *jmarino:* as long as I can do it after next week
(12:14:26 PM) *jsdelfino:* I think we can relax the deadlines a little 
for docs, the docs can be added after april 28th right?
(12:15:15 PM) *jsdelfino:* ok so +1 [in], haleh, jim, jeremy volunteer?
(12:15:42 PM) *jboynes:* a volunteer for the PM would be good
(12:15:55 PM) *jboynes:* I was saying I'm going to be doco'ed out on the 
internal APIs
(12:16:05 PM) *haleh:* What does that mean? PM volunteer
(12:16:13 PM) *jboynes:* programming model
(12:16:32 PM) *jboynes:* for application developers rather than extenders
(12:16:40 PM) *jmarino:* I can do the Java-specific stuff. No sdo or 
anything like that
(12:16:45 PM) *ant_:* is this just an addendum to the spec's or a 
complete new doc?
(12:17:26 PM) *haleh:* I am still not clear where I can help. Is PM an 
area to focus on?
(12:17:47 PM) *jboynes:* a new doc - I don't think pointing folk at the 
spec as their intro is a good way to start
(12:18:07 PM) *jsdelfino:* and it's a new PM doc right? for app developers?
(12:18:14 PM) *haleh:* Wouldn't we cover PM at user level in sample's doc?
(12:18:21 PM) *jboynes:* e.g. when you start EJB you start with a book 
like RMH's rather than the EJB spec
(12:18:33 PM) *ant_:* do we really need this for a Milestone 1 release?
(12:18:51 PM) *jmarino:* I was thinking we would just do some very 
simple doc on stuff
(12:19:01 PM) *jmarino:* like writing a pojo, scopes, etc.
(12:19:08 PM) *jmarino:* It kind of meshes with the sample
(12:19:15 PM) *jmarino:* BigBank
(12:19:19 PM) *jmarino:* and Helloworld
(12:19:42 PM) *jboynes:* that's what I was thinking as well, something 
more readable than the spec but less fragmented than the samples separately
(12:19:53 PM) *jsdelfino:* I think it'll be nice to have that, if people 
in the group think they have time to do it, it's a lot of work to do it 
right
(12:20:01 PM) *jboynes:* something that pulls it together
(12:20:28 PM) *jboynes:* agreed, but something even something basic is I 
think better than nothing
(12:20:33 PM) *jmarino:* I was thinking about something basic, not 
necessarily "doing it right"
(12:21:22 PM) *jsdelfino:* can we get basic and right? :) I think having 
something very basic is actually the right thing to do...
(12:21:45 PM) *jmarino:* :)
(12:21:45 PM) *jsdelfino:* basic, and simpler than the spec doc
(12:21:55 PM) *jboynes:* +1
(12:22:08 PM) *jmarino:* +! I can contribute, just can't be the main person
(12:22:47 PM) *haleh:* This could be our future book on how to build SOA 
solution with SCA :)
(12:23:04 PM) *cr22rc:* The spec, bigbank which is building your first 
SCA app, and now this ... will we need a roadmap to the docs/ samples too?
(12:23:07 PM) *jsdelfino:* ok adding this to the todo list, not sure we 
have a main volunteer yet, so it's open for people who want to jump in
(12:23:49 PM) *jboynes:* cr22rc, yes - doco is as important as the 
implementation
(12:24:45 PM) *jboynes:* jsdelfino, +1, next ?
(12:25:00 PM) *jsdelfino:* +1, I'll add [in, volunteers haleh, jim 
contributing]
(12:25:18 PM) *jsdelfino:* next is subsystem support and subsystem wires
(12:25:47 PM) *jsdelfino:* need to decide in/out
(12:26:19 PM) *jsdelfino:* my vote: in
(12:26:33 PM) *jboynes:* I think its important but its changing and we 
are short on time so out
(12:26:55 PM) *jsdelfino:* other? any opinions?
(12:27:32 PM) *ant_:* I find it hard to say as I'm not involved in the 
spec work. How likely is a new public spec release in the next few months?
(12:27:33 PM) *jmarino:* I agree out
(12:27:57 PM) *rfeng:* is there such an option like tentatively in or out?
(12:28:07 PM) *jmarino:* I think it will be changing soon. Not sure when 
we will release a new spec but we can always implement early
(12:28:33 PM) *jboynes:* rfeng, that's where I'm at, I'd like to see it 
in but don't see the time for it
(12:28:45 PM) *jsdelfino:* I have 1 in / 2 outs, 1 tentative in/out
(12:28:49 PM) *ant_:* if the spec changes and its not publicly released 
do we care?
(12:29:03 PM) *jsdelfino:* if there's no strong objections, I'll record 
[out]
(12:29:03 PM) *jmarino:* yes
(12:29:08 PM) *ant_:* all we have is the 0.9 one from 6 months ago
(12:29:28 PM) *jmarino:* that will change
(12:29:33 PM) *jboynes:* we need a better process to get spec changes 
publshed
(12:29:38 PM) *ant_:* yes
(12:30:07 PM) *haleh:* who will follow up with spec team on better 
process to publish changes more often?
(12:30:13 PM) *jboynes:* I have a todo to publish that (the process) and 
how people form the project can participate
(12:30:14 PM) *jmarino:* yes that is an issue
(12:30:32 PM) *jsdelfino:* I think we have a majority on subsystem wires 
[out], I'll record [out]
(12:30:40 PM) *jsdelfino:* can we move to the next one?
(12:30:48 PM) *jboynes:* I'll take that and send a couple of notes to 
the dev list
(12:31:15 PM) *jboynes:* yes
(12:31:26 PM) *jmarino:* yep go ahead
(12:31:48 PM) *jsdelfino:* I marked nightly builds already in, raymond 
as a volunteer, I think we're already making progress on this
(12:31:50 PM) *jsdelfino:* next is:
(12:32:02 PM) *jsdelfino:* hosts
(12:32:12 PM) *jsdelfino:* can we assume j2se is in :)
(12:32:16 PM) *jsdelfino:* my +1
(12:32:19 PM) *jboynes:* update on the builds, I got an account on 
ws.zones and should be able to publish builds from there using a cron job
(12:32:38 PM) *rfeng:* cool
(12:32:49 PM) *jboynes:* not stealing rfeng's thunder but it needed 
commit access (sorry)
(12:33:07 PM) *rfeng:* sure
(12:33:41 PM) *jboynes:* jsdelfino, sorry, +1
(12:33:48 PM) *jsdelfino:* ok, so I guess builds: volunteers = rfeng + 
jboynes
(12:33:57 PM) *jsdelfino:* ok, any -1 on j2se?
(12:34:02 PM) *rfeng:* +1
(12:34:22 PM) *jsdelfino:* next is tomcat
(12:34:36 PM) *jboynes:* I'm concerned that runtime config is out and it 
will impact j2se - we may need work (just a heads up)
(12:35:10 PM) *jboynes:* +1 to have it :-)
(12:35:29 PM) *jboynes:* there is some work on the host API but we 
convered that earlier
(12:35:42 PM) *ant_:* is this only the deep integration?
(12:36:19 PM) *jboynes:* both still I think
(12:36:28 PM) *jboynes:* or do we drop shallow?
(12:36:44 PM) *jsdelfino:* I vote for dropping the shallow integration
(12:36:50 PM) *ant_:* we dont have any shallow examples right now do we
(12:36:51 PM) *ant_:* ?
(12:37:24 PM) *jsdelfino:* not that I know of
(12:38:30 PM) *jsdelfino:* let's try a vote on dropping the shallow 
integration, here's my +1
(12:38:33 PM) *jboynes:* +1 to drop it
(12:38:40 PM) *ant_:* +1
(12:39:08 PM) *jsdelfino:* any -1?
(12:39:38 PM) *jsdelfino:* ok I'll record that, tomcat is in, shallow 
integration is out, unless there's an objection
(12:39:55 PM) *jboynes:* jsdelfino, can you post that decision to the 
dev list, people may have an opinion there
(12:40:15 PM) *jsdelfino:* that particular one? or all of them?
(12:40:19 PM) *jboynes:* (sorry, please can you ...)
(12:40:55 PM) *jboynes:* that one specifically - its a bigger thing, the 
others are more about co-ordinating things or deferring them
(12:41:08 PM) *jsdelfino:* ok, makes sense, I'll do that
(12:41:30 PM) *jsdelfino:* another question I think we should discuss 
here, w.r.t tomcat
(12:41:40 PM) *ant_:* is this about droping it for M1, not forever?
(12:41:40 PM) *jsdelfino:* do we want to embed tomcat in out tuscany distro?
(12:41:45 PM) *jsdelfino:* yes M1 only
(12:41:49 PM) *ant_:* ok
(12:41:59 PM) *jsdelfino:* in our tuscany distro?
(12:42:07 PM) *jsdelfino:* or have tuscany installed on top of tomcat?
(12:42:09 PM) *jsdelfino:* or both?
(12:42:29 PM) *jboynes:* I'd do a bundle with tc pre-configured
(12:42:51 PM) *jboynes:* plus doco on the site on how to do it
(12:43:22 PM) *jsdelfino:* so tomcat will be inside our distro zip?
(12:43:56 PM) *jboynes:* we can talk specifics later but I think we do a 
distro that is basically tomcat with added stuff
(12:44:21 PM) *jboynes:* unzip tuscay-tomcat.zip ; cd bin; start
(12:44:25 PM) *ant_:* +1. this seems appropriate if we only support deep 
integration
(12:44:45 PM) *jsdelfino:* cr22rc, are u happy with that? we had this 
discussion before, so please speak up now if you have any questions / 
concerns
(12:44:54 PM) *jsdelfino:* +1 from me as well
(12:45:11 PM) *cr22rc:* work for me either way .. as long as there is a 
decision.
(12:45:21 PM) *jboynes:* (there would be a second one that is j2se)
(12:45:42 PM) *jboynes:* (and perhaps a third that is celtix, depends on 
how that works)
(12:45:51 PM) *jsdelfino:* yes, jmarino, would you like to vote as well?
(12:46:07 PM) *jsdelfino:* I'd like dan's opinion as well
(12:46:15 PM) *jboynes:* guess I should +1 it :-)
(12:46:25 PM) *jmarino:* yea +1
(12:47:08 PM) *jsdelfino:* dan, will that work with celtix? do u have 
any specific requirements here?
(12:48:15 PM) *jsdelfino:* so far, we're all +1 on this, just would like 
dan's input as well
(12:48:22 PM) *jboynes:* let's move on - we can see what celtix looks 
like as dkulp's stuff comes int
(12:48:41 PM) *jsdelfino:* maybe dan's away, let's move to the next one 
and come back to this when he's back
(12:48:52 PM) *dkulp:* Right. Celtix uses jetty for HTTP support mostly.
(12:49:02 PM) *dkulp:* I'm not sure how that's going to map to tuscany yet.
(12:49:05 PM) *dkulp:* That's next on my list.
(12:49:30 PM) *jboynes:* sounds like fun :-)
(12:49:37 PM) *jsdelfino:* ok so +1 for the approach we just discussed, 
possible adjustments when Celtix comes into the picture
(12:49:43 PM) *jsdelfino:* next is OSGI
(12:49:44 PM) *dkulp:* +1
(12:50:05 PM) *rfeng:* more detail on OSGi?
(12:50:31 PM) *jmarino:* keep it out for now. I plan to get to it later 
unless there is a volunteer
(12:51:05 PM) *jsdelfino:* ok, out for now then?
(12:51:24 PM) *jboynes:* +1 esp with runtime config out
(12:51:39 PM) *jboynes:* the two are probably related
(12:51:55 PM) *jsdelfino:* ok, next is:
(12:52:13 PM) *jsdelfino:* since we don't have anybody working on sdo or 
das on the chat...
(12:52:29 PM) *jsdelfino:* samples - improve the project structure
(12:53:09 PM) *jsdelfino:* btw I'm not sure the discussion on this is 
actually closed, we could discuss right now the desire to improve it, 
and leave the actual structure out of the discussion?
(12:53:22 PM) *jsdelfino:* and finalize it on the dev list
(12:53:43 PM) *jsdelfino:* but do people agree that we need to change 
the structure of the sample projects?
(12:54:36 PM) *jsdelfino:* opinions anyone? do we want to change the 
structure for this release?
(12:54:37 PM) *jboynes:* yes
(12:54:51 PM) *jboynes:* no only structure but also more "sampley"
(12:55:17 PM) *cr22rc:* ?
(12:56:43 PM) *jboynes:* shorter class names, focus on distro as source, 
grouping related stuff together (e.g. the WS stuff in helloworld) ...
(12:57:13 PM) *jsdelfino:* what do u mean by focus on distro as source?
(12:57:24 PM) *cr22rc:* shorter class names +1
(12:57:36 PM) *jboynes:* most of tuscany we distriubute in binary form
(12:57:38 PM) *jsdelfino:* me too +1 we already have JIRA issues for this
(12:57:38 PM) *cr22rc:* not sure about what you want with grouping
(12:57:54 PM) *jboynes:* for the samples, the primary download is the source
(12:58:06 PM) *cr22rc:* yes
(12:58:06 PM) *jboynes:* as the binary isn't that readable
(12:58:21 PM) *jboynes:* we need to focus on that as a different distro form
(12:58:26 PM) *cr22rc:* except to the jvm
(12:58:35 PM) *ant_:* i think we should discuss this on another chat or 
mailing list, or at least finsih the rest of topic for this chat first
(12:58:41 PM) *jsdelfino:* so that work is part of the distro work, that 
rfeng and jboynes are doing right?
(12:58:50 PM) *rfeng:* y
(12:59:31 PM) *jboynes:* needs to be in there but I think it will impact 
the samples tree (and I wasn't planning on that)
(12:59:54 PM) *jboynes:* anyway, some work needed, we should dicuss later
(01:00:01 PM) *jsdelfino:* my +1 for shortening class/pkg names, 
refining the project structure a bit / reasonably, and having the distro 
contain the source :)
(01:00:33 PM) *haleh:* Agree. right direction
(01:01:02 PM) *haleh:* distro should include documentation on samples as 
well
(01:01:54 PM) *dkulp:* I have a meeting to go to, I'll be back in a bit.
(01:02:13 PM) *jsdelfino:* cr22rc, are u ok with that plan? I think you 
need to give your position on the "reasonable" restructure work if it 
causes too much work for the release
(01:03:15 PM) *jsdelfino:* I'd like to finish the samples section in the 
next few mins.
(01:03:31 PM) *cr22rc:* I want to see the details of the "restructure" 
... off the bat where things are located are ok so far with me
(01:04:09 PM) *jsdelfino:* ok, I'll record that the restructure details 
are still up in the air and need to be fleshed out on the dev list
(01:04:36 PM) *jsdelfino:* any objections speak up now, the 2 other work 
items are [in]
(01:04:41 PM) *ant_:* +1 shortening pkg names. +1 to more discussion on 
the restructure at a later time. I'm not sure that just including the 
sample src in the distro is enough
(01:05:13 PM) *jsdelfino:* good point, we need the docs as well, 
anything else?
(01:05:50 PM) *jsdelfino:* if nothing else, let's move on to the next item
(01:06:11 PM) *jboynes:* move on
(01:06:12 PM) *cr22rc:* right now the docs are readme.htm which should 
with the source
(01:06:15 PM) *ant_:* its a bit more complicated isn't it? there's going 
to be a mix of tomcat and j2se clients
(01:06:35 PM) *ant_:* yes, move on
(01:06:47 PM) *jsdelfino:* ok, next is technology samples
(01:07:06 PM) *jsdelfino:* I think we need one more simple 
helloworld-like sample that shows async
(01:07:14 PM) *jsdelfino:* any opinions? any more samples?
(01:07:40 PM) *jmarino:* I think that would be a good idea
(01:08:35 PM) *jsdelfino:* anything else? multiplicity? complex 
properties? anything?
(01:09:06 PM) *jsdelfino:* any sample mixing javabeans and sdos?
(01:09:33 PM) *jsdelfino:* looking for ideas here, of things that people 
would want to do with SCA/SDO...
(01:10:12 PM) *cr22rc:* I'd like to see just like we have for helloword 
that shows SCA the same for SDO's
(01:10:12 PM) *jboynes:* a sample showing how to create an SDO inside SCA
(01:10:23 PM) *jboynes:* without using .INSTANCE
(01:10:33 PM) *jsdelfino:* yes, good
(01:10:37 PM) *jboynes:* also how to import your own types
(01:10:50 PM) *jsdelfino:* what do u mean by import your own types?
(01:10:55 PM) *cr22rc:* when do you use Dynamic ? when do use Static ?
(01:11:22 PM) *jboynes:* we should have samples of both
(01:11:39 PM) *jsdelfino:* cr22rc, that's a good one two, we need the 
SDO guys to jump in and help with these
(01:11:44 PM) *jboynes:* "import your own types" == how do I import a 
schema instance
(01:12:13 PM)* cr22rc left the room.*
(01:12:30 PM) *jsdelfino:* (confused) showing XSDHelper.defineType( a 
schema ) ?
(01:12:53 PM) *jboynes:* <import.sdo schemaLocation="http://foo.com 
foo.xsd" />
(01:12:56 PM) *jboynes:* or something
(01:13:11 PM) *jsdelfino:* ok I see
(01:13:44 PM) *jsdelfino:* so far I have async, sdo creation, sdo 
metadata import, dynamic/static sdo usage
(01:13:46 PM) *haleh:* Let's focus on typical usage patterns that first 
time users will run into and then focus on more complex stuff at a later 
time
(01:14:14 PM) *jboynes:* haleh, that is pretty basic
(01:14:15 PM)* cr22rc_away [/i=user@41.sub-70-197-27.myvzw.com/] entered 
the room.*
(01:14:32 PM) *haleh:* I typed before it was summarized. I agree with 
the list.
(01:14:49 PM) *jboynes:* :-)
(01:15:05 PM) *jboynes:* +1 to the list, volunteers?
(01:15:05 PM) *jsdelfino:* ok, if there's no objection, I'll record this 
list on the wiki
(01:15:20 PM) *jsdelfino:* but I need volunteers :) I volunteer for the 
async one
(01:15:38 PM) *jsdelfino:* I think we'll need volunteers from the SDO 
team as well
(01:15:55 PM) *jboynes:* I think I'm on the hook for the data binding 
bit so that prob includes import
(01:16:46 PM) *jsdelfino:* ok, cr22rc has been involved in all the 
samples but is away now, how about we leave it at that for now
(01:17:23 PM) *jboynes:* ok, next ...
(01:17:47 PM)* cr22rc_away is now known as cr22rc*
(01:17:53 PM) *cr22rc:* back got disc
(01:18:10 PM) *jsdelfino:* summary of the previous discussion:
(01:18:21 PM) *jsdelfino:* new samples are:
(01:18:24 PM) *jsdelfino:* async, sdo creation, sdo metadata import, 
dynamic/static sdo usage
(01:18:39 PM) *jsdelfino:* volunteers, jboynes for the sdo metadata
(01:18:43 PM) *jsdelfino:* jsdelfino for async
(01:19:05 PM) *jsdelfino:* and we'll have to ask the SDO team for help 
as well
(01:19:21 PM) *jsdelfino:* cr22rc, do u want to volunteer for any of these?
(01:19:24 PM) *cr22rc:* If I get BB ever to work I'll help out... but no 
very litte of SDO not the best candidate
(01:19:33 PM) *ant_:* javascript, jsonrpc, celtix?
(01:20:28 PM) *jsdelfino:* I was thinking that the javascript samples 
were in, but I'm not sure if there's any work to do on them or not
(01:20:43 PM) *jsdelfino:* ant, can u give us an overview status of what 
shape they are in?
(01:21:49 PM) *ant_:* the impression i got was that people thought they 
needed work
(01:22:12 PM) *jsdelfino:* work?
(01:22:51 PM) *jsdelfino:* anything more precise? :)
(01:22:51 PM) *ant_:* they were intended as functional tests more than 
samples
(01:23:34 PM) *haleh:* so maybe we choose a few of those and brush them 
off to make them samples?
(01:24:10 PM) *jsdelfino:* any idea of the amount of work? and volunteers?
(01:24:20 PM) *jmarino:* I think they need more test coverage.
(01:25:13 PM) *jboynes:* not the samples per se, testing should move 
into the main build
(01:25:56 PM) *jboynes:* having a lot of test code in the sample just 
confuses what it is trying to illustrate
(01:25:56 PM) *jmarino:* yes I was referring to the extensions
(01:26:02 PM) *jboynes:* (that's true for all not just JS)
(01:26:08 PM) *jmarino:* yes
(01:26:17 PM) *jmarino:* we're just on that specific topic now
(01:26:25 PM) *jmarino:* I'll say the same about everything :)
(01:26:47 PM) *jsdelfino:* I agree, the samples should not be confused 
by test code
(01:26:58 PM) *jsdelfino:* so does that sound reasonable:
(01:27:18 PM) *jsdelfino:* - we already decided that the javascript 
container is [in], we're now saying it needs more testing
(01:27:35 PM) *jsdelfino:* - we take one or two of the simplest JS 
samples and clean them up
(01:27:51 PM) *jsdelfino:* maybe just helloworld
(01:28:15 PM) *jmarino:* I think your summary is good
(01:28:44 PM) *jsdelfino:* we need a volunteer to clean up the JS 
sample, I am volunteering if nobody else wants to do it
(01:29:22 PM) *jboynes:* thanks :-)
(01:29:34 PM) *jmarino:* great
(01:29:48 PM) *jsdelfino:* if that works for everybody, I'll record that 
on the wiki
(01:30:19 PM) *haleh:* Yes :) Thanks
(01:30:36 PM) *jsdelfino:* should we close for today? I don't think the 
business scenario discussion is something we can close quick
(01:30:49 PM) *jsdelfino:* unless we say that new big business samples 
are just [out]
(01:30:52 PM) *jsdelfino:* :)
(01:31:10 PM) *haleh:* Is BigBank a business scenario?
(01:31:18 PM) *haleh:* That is in I hope :)
(01:31:20 PM) *cr22rc:* business scenario := BB DONE
(01:31:27 PM) *jsdelfino:* [in] for me
(01:31:33 PM) *cr22rc:* next item
(01:31:33 PM) *jsdelfino:* and that's it
(01:31:36 PM) *jsdelfino:* for now...
(01:31:39 PM) *jsdelfino:* for this release
(01:31:42 PM) *jmarino:* ciao
(01:32:35 PM) *jboynes:* yea
(01:32:45 PM) *jsdelfino:* before we close, are u all ok with bigbank 
[in] and only bigbank?
(01:32:56 PM) *jsdelfino:* and cr22rc as the main volunteer for it?
(01:32:57 PM) *jboynes:* yes
(01:33:58 PM) *jsdelfino:* ok, do we want to schedule the next chat now?
(01:34:59 PM) *jsdelfino:* how about friday? a short one to finish this 
list?
(01:35:12 PM) *jsdelfino:* earlier in the day to be nice with people in 
Europe?
(01:35:20 PM) *ant_:* please not friday 8pm GMT
(01:35:29 PM) *jsdelfino:* yeah that's what I meant
(01:35:31 PM) *jsdelfino:* :)
(01:35:55 PM) *jsdelfino:* what time works for you ant?
(01:36:33 PM) *jsdelfino:* does 8am PT, 11am ET, 16h GMT work?
(01:36:44 PM) *jmarino:* yea
(01:36:47 PM) *jsdelfino:* or one hour earlier?
(01:37:32 PM) *ant_:* 8am PT is ok for me
(01:37:36 PM) *jboynes:* either works for me
(01:38:06 PM) *jsdelfino:* ok let's do that then, next one friday 21st, 
8am PT, 11am ET, 16g GMT
(01:38:10 PM) *jsdelfino:* 16h GMT
(01:38:15 PM) *jsdelfino:* thank you all
(01:38:22 PM) *jsdelfino:* I'll post the log to the dev list
(01:38:29 PM) *jsdelfino:* and will update the Wiki
(01:38:36 PM) *jsdelfino:* bye
(01:38:39 PM) *jboynes:* thanks
(01:38:43 PM) *ant_:* bye all

-- 
Jean-Sebastien