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Posted to users@openoffice.apache.org by Felmon Davis <da...@union.edu> on 2016/07/19 19:13:00 UTC
propagating changes.
hello,
I've frequently stumbled upon this problem so may as well seek some
advice.
I have a large document I work on this time of year. the default font
size is 11pt but now I want to change it to 10.5pt - gonna make it
into a booklet.
simply altering the 'default' setting does not automatically
modify the font size through the document. I don't want to 'select
all' since there are other font sizes bound to a couple of 'styles'
I'm using.
how do I change a setting and have it 'propagate' automagically
through the document? or is that not possible?
maybe copy and paste into a suitable template?
f.
--
Felmon Davis
He was a fiddler, and consequently a rogue.
-- Jonathan Swift
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Re: propagating changes.
Posted by Rory O'Farrell <of...@iol.ie>.
On Tue, 19 Jul 2016 15:40:20 -0400 (EDT)
Felmon Davis <da...@union.edu> wrote:
> On Tue, 19 Jul 2016, Rory O'Farrell wrote:
>
> > On Tue, 19 Jul 2016 15:13:00 -0400 (EDT)
> > Felmon Davis <da...@union.edu> wrote:
> >
> >> hello,
> >>
> >> I've frequently stumbled upon this problem so may as well seek some
> >> advice.
> >>
> >> I have a large document I work on this time of year. the default font
> >> size is 11pt but now I want to change it to 10.5pt - gonna make it
> >> into a booklet.
> >>
> >> simply altering the 'default' setting does not automatically
> >> modify the font size through the document. I don't want to 'select
> >> all' since there are other font sizes bound to a couple of 'styles'
> >> I'm using.
> >>
> >> how do I change a setting and have it 'propagate' automagically
> >> through the document? or is that not possible?
> >>
> >> maybe copy and paste into a suitable template?
> >>
> >> f.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Felmon Davis
> >>
> >
> > The easiest way is to use the Navigator (F5 key).
>
> I get a little 'window' with rather obscure icons. what you describe
> however I get with F11. maybe I configured things differently in this
> regard.
>
> must it be 'F5'?
Sorry - I misremembered - I've been writing on this computer for 14 hours and need a break. It should have been F11
If that doesn't work you have been using direct formatting. Direct formatting takes precedence over Styles.
--
Rory O'Farrell <of...@iol.ie>
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Re: propagating changes
Posted by Brian Barker <b....@btinternet.com>.
At 15:40 19/07/2016 -0400, Felmon Davis wrote:
>the document was begun with a certain 'default' of my devising, 11pt
>font-size, first line indentation, etc.
How did you do this? You may have modified a paragraph style (or
created a new one), in which case you can now simply modify that
style as you wish. But you may have set the paragraph properties of
your first paragraph and then relied on each new paragraph inheriting
the properties from its predecessor. Note that in this second case,
your "default" has been applied as a paragraph property, whereas the
first uses a paragraph *style* property; these are two different
things. If you used the second method, I think you have a longwinded
task ahead of you, with no "automagic" shortcuts.
>suppose I invoke 'F11' etc and change the font to 'negreta'; Lo! all
>the text is dark! change font-size? nada.
That will be because you chose the first technique above, and your
local character or paragraph formatting is overriding your change of
paragraph style.
>maybe I have inadvertently but passing strange it works with one
>kind of font formatting but not the other.
I think that will be because the "default of [your] devising"
happened to modify - and thereby fossilise - the font size but not
the font itself. The font is still game to be changed by a change in
paragraph style.
Note that font size is a character property, a character style
property, and a paragraph style property (but not a paragraph
property, although an entire paragraph can be given a font size using
the character property, of course). So you can set font size in
various ways, and understanding what is happening can be confusing.
I know it is easy for me to say this now, but you can see why
learning about and using styles is very useful in OpenOffice. You
will reap rewards.
I trust this helps.
Brian Barker
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Re: propagating changes
Posted by Felmon Davis <da...@union.edu>.
On Tue, 19 Jul 2016, Brian Barker wrote:
> At 15:40 19/07/2016 -0400, Felmon Davis wrote:
>> the document was begun with a certain 'default' of my devising, 11pt
>> font-size, first line indentation, etc.
>
> How did you do this?
sorry, I didn't see this email until a day after it was posted and
meantime have had hands full with some other work. I'm not sure if I
have answered your questions in our off-list correspondence but
despite your worthy efforts, I am still very unclear about 'direct
formatting' vs 'templating'.
to preserve context I quote your response and make some comments
thereafter:
> You may have modified a paragraph style (or created a new one), in
> which case you can now simply modify that style as you wish. But you
> may have set the paragraph properties of your first paragraph and
> then relied on each new paragraph inheriting the properties from its
> predecessor. Note that in this second case, your "default" has been
> applied as a paragraph property, whereas the first uses a paragraph
> *style* property; these are two different things. If you used the
> second method, I think you have a longwinded task ahead of you, with
> no "automagic" shortcuts.
>> suppose I invoke 'F11' etc and change the font to 'negreta'; Lo! all the
>> text is dark! change font-size? nada.
>
> That will be because you chose the first technique above, and your local
> character or paragraph formatting is overriding your change of paragraph
> style.
>
>> maybe I have inadvertently but passing strange it works with one kind of
>> font formatting but not the other.
>
> I think that will be because the "default of [your] devising" happened to
> modify - and thereby fossilise - the font size but not the font itself. The
> font is still game to be changed by a change in paragraph style.
>
> Note that font size is a character property, a character style property, and
> a paragraph style property (but not a paragraph property, although an entire
> paragraph can be given a font size using the character property, of course).
> So you can set font size in various ways, and understanding what is happening
> can be confusing.
>
> I know it is easy for me to say this now, but you can see why learning about
> and using styles is very useful in OpenOffice. You will reap rewards.
I am perplexed and it has to do with discerning when I'm
committing the sin of 'direct formatting' vs invoking the blessings of
'styles'
several yrs ago I made a default template with my favorite formatting
- 1st line indented, font type, font size mainly. I also bound some
special formatting to some keys so for paragraphs indented on all
lines fore and aft I have a special key, another key to re-set to my
default style.
now to perplexities and questions:
Q1: when I set the default template. doesn't that count (also) as
"using styles"?
now suppose I pull up F11 and decide, "oh, I want 12pt instead," so I
modify it in F11 accordingly.
Q2: doesn't this count as "using styles"?
now I notice this makes the change pervasive in some docs and but not
in others.
Q3: where it doesn't work, what should I infer:
a) I have NOT used my default template (contrary to what I thought)?
b) I HAVE used my default template but font size doesn't change
because it's 'fossilized'? (but why?)
c) I have used 'direct formatting'? (how? I used my default template).
I guess (c) is just a catch-all for the others. (a) is quite possible
through inadvertence.
thankful for any light by you or anyone!
f.
--
Felmon Davis
I just know I'm a better manager when I have Joe DiMaggio in center
field.
-- Casey Stengel
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Re: propagating changes.
Posted by Felmon Davis <da...@union.edu>.
On Tue, 19 Jul 2016, Rory O'Farrell wrote:
> On Tue, 19 Jul 2016 15:13:00 -0400 (EDT)
> Felmon Davis <da...@union.edu> wrote:
>
>> hello,
>>
>> I've frequently stumbled upon this problem so may as well seek some
>> advice.
>>
>> I have a large document I work on this time of year. the default font
>> size is 11pt but now I want to change it to 10.5pt - gonna make it
>> into a booklet.
>>
>> simply altering the 'default' setting does not automatically
>> modify the font size through the document. I don't want to 'select
>> all' since there are other font sizes bound to a couple of 'styles'
>> I'm using.
>>
>> how do I change a setting and have it 'propagate' automagically
>> through the document? or is that not possible?
>>
>> maybe copy and paste into a suitable template?
>>
>> f.
>>
>> --
>> Felmon Davis
>>
>
> The easiest way is to use the Navigator (F5 key).
I get a little 'window' with rather obscure icons. what you describe
however I get with F11. maybe I configured things differently in this
regard.
must it be 'F5'?
> Change the dropdowb at Navigator bottom to "Applied Styles". Press
> first icon from left to select Paragraph styles and modify each of
> the text styles by right clicking on the style and choosing Modify
> from the popup to 10.5 pt (usually Text Body and Default). If you
> have other body styles you will have to modify these as well.
assuming my 'F11' is your 'F5', doing this is precisely what doesn't
work. (sorry I was unclear.)
the document was begun with a certain 'default' of my devising, 11pt
font-size, first line indentation, etc.
suppose I invoke 'F11' etc and change the font to 'negreta'; Lo! all
the text is dark!
change font-size? nada.
> If you have applied direct formatting instead of using styles
> properly this will not work.
maybe I have inadvertently but passing strange it works with one kind
of font formatting but not the other.
f.
--
Felmon Davis
Dreams are free, but there's a small charge for alterations.
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Re: propagating changes.
Posted by Rory O'Farrell <of...@iol.ie>.
On Tue, 19 Jul 2016 15:13:00 -0400 (EDT)
Felmon Davis <da...@union.edu> wrote:
> hello,
>
> I've frequently stumbled upon this problem so may as well seek some
> advice.
>
> I have a large document I work on this time of year. the default font
> size is 11pt but now I want to change it to 10.5pt - gonna make it
> into a booklet.
>
> simply altering the 'default' setting does not automatically
> modify the font size through the document. I don't want to 'select
> all' since there are other font sizes bound to a couple of 'styles'
> I'm using.
>
> how do I change a setting and have it 'propagate' automagically
> through the document? or is that not possible?
>
> maybe copy and paste into a suitable template?
>
> f.
>
> --
> Felmon Davis
>
The easiest way is to use the Navigator (F5 key). Change the dropdowb at Navigator bottom to "Applied Styles". Press first icon from left to select Paragraph styles and modify each of the text styles by right clicking on the style and choosing Modify from the popup to 10.5 pt (usually Text Body and Default). If you have other body styles you will have to modify these as well.
If you have applied direct formatting instead of using styles properly this will not work.
--
Rory O'Farrell <of...@iol.ie>
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Re: propagating changes
Posted by Brian Barker <b....@btinternet.com>.
At 15:13 19/07/2016 -0400, Felmon Davis wrote:
>I have a large document I work on this time of year. the default
>font size is 11pt but now I want to change it to 10.5pt - gonna make
>it into a booklet. simply altering the 'default' setting does not
>automatically modify the font size through the document.
This depends on what you mean by the "default setting". I'm guessing
that you have changed the value at Tools | Options... | OpenOffice
Writer | Basic Fonts (Western) | Default - and you are right: this
changes the default for new documents only and not anything in a
document currently open for editing.
>I don't want to 'select all' since there are other font sizes bound
>to a couple of 'styles' I'm using.
Good: that wouldn't be the best solution. But you are using more
styles that those "couple" you describe, since every paragraph will
have a paragraph style with its own font size. If you have not
knowingly ascribed a paragraph style to any part of your document,
they may have the Default paragraph style (not to be confused with
the default set in Options as above).
>how do I change a setting and have it 'propagate' automagically
>through the document? or is that not possible?
o Go to Format | Styles and Formatting (or click the Styles and
Formatting button in the Formatting toolbar, or press F11).
o Select the Paragraph Styles button in the button bar of that window.
o Put the cursor into your text to see which paragraph style is
highlighted as being used.
o Right click the paragraph style and select Modify... .
o Modify the font size as required.
o If this doesn't change all the relevant parts of your document,
repeat in unaffected parts and change those paragraph styles too.
>maybe copy and paste into a suitable template?
No need.
I trust this helps.
Brian Barker
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Re: propagating changes
Posted by Felmon Davis <da...@union.edu>.
On Tue, 19 Jul 2016, Rory O'Farrell wrote:
> Depending on the complexity of the document it can sometimes help to
> Select all and assign Default or Text Body paragraph style to the
> document. This may lose the Heading/Subheading formatting. In some
> cases I have been able to download an entire text (usually from
> Project Gutenberg), and after removing the unwanted end of line
> markings change the overall style to Default or Text Body. Then I
> could search for the Chapter Heading and apply Style Heading 1. I
> was able to format war and Peace in ten minutes using that method.
well this is what I would like to avoid - though I admire your speedy
fingers! I think my document is a little more complex. it has 'title',
'author', 'affiliation' and some paragraphs have extra indentation and
a still smaller font.
rather than strip everything out - and lose the table of contents
also, I'd rather just march through and apply a style to the stubborn
paragraphs which are mostly of the same type.
it won't be as fast as your record with War and Peace but still less
pain.
f.
--
Felmon Davis
"They told me I was gullible ... and I believed them!"
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Re: propagating changes
Posted by Rory O'Farrell <of...@iol.ie>.
On Tue, 19 Jul 2016 16:16:39 -0400 (EDT)
Felmon Davis <da...@union.edu> wrote:
> On Tue, 19 Jul 2016, Brian Barker wrote:
>
> > At 15:13 19/07/2016 -0400, Felmon Davis wrote:
> >> I have a large document I work on this time of year. the default font size
> >> is 11pt but now I want to change it to 10.5pt - gonna make it into a
> >> booklet. simply altering the 'default' setting does not automatically
> >> modify the font size through the document.
> >
> > This depends on what you mean by the "default setting". I'm guessing that you
> > have changed the value at Tools | Options... | OpenOffice Writer | Basic
> > Fonts (Western) | Default - and you are right: this changes the default for
> > new documents only and not anything in a document currently open for editing.
>
> ok, so that's settled.
>
> >> I don't want to 'select all' since there are other font sizes bound to a
> >> couple of 'styles' I'm using.
> >
> > Good: that wouldn't be the best solution. But you are using more styles that
> > those "couple" you describe, since every paragraph will have a paragraph
> > style with its own font size. If you have not knowingly ascribed a paragraph
> > style to any part of your document, they may have the Default paragraph style
> > (not to be confused with the default set in Options as above).
>
> I have given some types of paragraph a style, e.g. titles of each
> essay are 'Header 1' so I can build a Table of Contents and they have
> some special formatting, etc. that all works.
>
> >> how do I change a setting and have it 'propagate' automagically through the
> >> document? or is that not possible?
> >
> > o Go to Format | Styles and Formatting (or click the Styles and Formatting
> > button in the Formatting toolbar, or press F11).
> > o Select the Paragraph Styles button in the button bar of that window.
> > o Put the cursor into your text to see which paragraph style is highlighted
> > as being used.
>
> everything says 'default'.
>
> > o Right click the paragraph style and select Modify... .
> > o Modify the font size as required.
> > o If this doesn't change all the relevant parts of your document, repeat in
> > unaffected parts and change those paragraph styles too.
>
> so basically I have to go through the whole document and select pretty
> much every paragraph I want modified?
>
> not the automagic I sought.
>
> but the magic incantation, 'so be it', always works.
>
> >> maybe copy and paste into a suitable template?
> >
> > No need.
>
> curious. would this work? suppose I build a template according to
> taste, open an empty document based on it and then copy and pasted
> in the text I'm working on? of course, I'm assuming the template has
> the same paragraph types, etc., as the text.
>
> > I trust this helps.
>
> you trust correctly.
>
> f.
>
>
> --
> Felmon Davis
Depending on the complexity of the document it can sometimes help to Select all and assign Default or Text Body paragraph style to the document. This may lose the Heading/Subheading formatting. In some cases I have been able to download an entire text (usually from Project Gutenberg), and after removing the unwanted end of line markings change the overall style to Default or Text Body. Then I could search for the Chapter Heading and apply Style Heading 1. I was able to format war and Peace in ten minutes using that method.
--
Rory O'Farrell <of...@iol.ie>
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Re: propagating changes
Posted by Felmon Davis <da...@union.edu>.
On Tue, 19 Jul 2016, Brian Barker wrote:
> At 15:13 19/07/2016 -0400, Felmon Davis wrote:
>> I have a large document I work on this time of year. the default font size
>> is 11pt but now I want to change it to 10.5pt - gonna make it into a
>> booklet. simply altering the 'default' setting does not automatically
>> modify the font size through the document.
>
> This depends on what you mean by the "default setting". I'm guessing that you
> have changed the value at Tools | Options... | OpenOffice Writer | Basic
> Fonts (Western) | Default - and you are right: this changes the default for
> new documents only and not anything in a document currently open for editing.
ok, so that's settled.
>> I don't want to 'select all' since there are other font sizes bound to a
>> couple of 'styles' I'm using.
>
> Good: that wouldn't be the best solution. But you are using more styles that
> those "couple" you describe, since every paragraph will have a paragraph
> style with its own font size. If you have not knowingly ascribed a paragraph
> style to any part of your document, they may have the Default paragraph style
> (not to be confused with the default set in Options as above).
I have given some types of paragraph a style, e.g. titles of each
essay are 'Header 1' so I can build a Table of Contents and they have
some special formatting, etc. that all works.
>> how do I change a setting and have it 'propagate' automagically through the
>> document? or is that not possible?
>
> o Go to Format | Styles and Formatting (or click the Styles and Formatting
> button in the Formatting toolbar, or press F11).
> o Select the Paragraph Styles button in the button bar of that window.
> o Put the cursor into your text to see which paragraph style is highlighted
> as being used.
everything says 'default'.
> o Right click the paragraph style and select Modify... .
> o Modify the font size as required.
> o If this doesn't change all the relevant parts of your document, repeat in
> unaffected parts and change those paragraph styles too.
so basically I have to go through the whole document and select pretty
much every paragraph I want modified?
not the automagic I sought.
but the magic incantation, 'so be it', always works.
>> maybe copy and paste into a suitable template?
>
> No need.
curious. would this work? suppose I build a template according to
taste, open an empty document based on it and then copy and pasted
in the text I'm working on? of course, I'm assuming the template has
the same paragraph types, etc., as the text.
> I trust this helps.
you trust correctly.
f.
--
Felmon Davis
I couldn't possibly fail to disagree with you less.
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Re: propagating changes
Posted by Brian Barker <b....@btinternet.com>.
At 12:57 19/07/2016 -0700, Jim McLaughlin wrote:
>How do I change the default font in Calc? I have vision issues and
>both the Arial font structure as well as the default size are an
>issue for me. While I can change each new spreadsheet's font type
>and size on the tool bar, I'd prefer a manner in which I can change
>the default font to my preferred one.
I think the only simple way to do this - which is very simple - is to
create a template.
o Create a new spreadsheet document.
o Click in the small rectangle at top left (where the row and column
headers meet) to select the entire sheet.
o Make all the formatting changes you wish.
o Go to File | Templates > | Save..., give the new template a name,
and OK to save it - probably in My Templates.
When you need a new spreadsheet, invoke this template via File | New>
| Templates and Documents, or the Templates and Documents entry in
the drop-down menu under the down-arrow next to the New button in the
Standard toolbar, or the Templates... button on the start screen.
If you wish, you can make your new template the default for new
spreadsheet documents:
o Go to File | Templates > | Organise... .
o Open My Templates and select the new template.
o Click Commands | Set As Default Template.
Note that this formatting affects only any sheets you apply it to
individually, so you should consider formatting all three of the
sheets a new document has by default - or perhaps even more. Even if
you do this, any new sheets you create in documents derived from this
template will - perhaps surprisingly - have the original defaults,
not yours. You can work around this by creating additional sheets by
copying existing ones instead of creating new ones.
If it suits your practices better, you can save a template or a copy
or a shortcut to it wherever you prefer - perhaps on your desktop.
I trust this helps.
Brian Barker
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Re: propagating changes
Posted by Jim McLaughlin <jj...@gmail.com>.
Brian -
Thank you for the hints for an automatic universal font change in Calc.
I will create a new template and invoke that for my spread sheet usage
going forward. I will increase the number of sheets to 10, rather than the
default 3, and set a properly (for my eyes) sized font on each sheet, and
delete un used un needed sheets from various spreadsheet documents. Having
all sheets within one document pre "formatted" to the desired font and size
will be less frustrating than having to remember to invoke the template for
each sheet added.
Again, thank you.
On Tue, Jul 19, 2016 at 1:33 PM, Brian Barker <b....@btinternet.com>
wrote:
> At 12:57 19/07/2016 -0700, Jim McLaughlin wrote:
>
>> How do I change the default font in Calc? I have vision issues and both
>> the Arial font structure as well as the default size are an issue for me.
>> While I can change each new spreadsheet's font type and size on the tool
>> bar, I'd prefer a manner in which I can change the default font to my
>> preferred one.
>>
>
> I think the only simple way to do this - which is very simple - is to
> create a template.
>
> o Create a new spreadsheet document.
> o Click in the small rectangle at top left (where the row and column
> headers meet) to select the entire sheet.
> o Make all the formatting changes you wish.
> o Go to File | Templates > | Save..., give the new template a name, and OK
> to save it - probably in My Templates.
>
> When you need a new spreadsheet, invoke this template via File | New> |
> Templates and Documents, or the Templates and Documents entry in the
> drop-down menu under the down-arrow next to the New button in the Standard
> toolbar, or the Templates... button on the start screen.
>
> If you wish, you can make your new template the default for new
> spreadsheet documents:
> o Go to File | Templates > | Organise... .
> o Open My Templates and select the new template.
> o Click Commands | Set As Default Template.
>
> Note that this formatting affects only any sheets you apply it to
> individually, so you should consider formatting all three of the sheets a
> new document has by default - or perhaps even more. Even if you do this,
> any new sheets you create in documents derived from this template will -
> perhaps surprisingly - have the original defaults, not yours. You can work
> around this by creating additional sheets by copying existing ones instead
> of creating new ones.
>
> If it suits your practices better, you can save a template or a copy or a
> shortcut to it wherever you prefer - perhaps on your desktop.
>
>
> I trust this helps.
>
> Brian Barker
>
>
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> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
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>
>
Re: propagating changes
Posted by Jim McLaughlin <jj...@gmail.com>.
Brian -
Thank you for the walk through on managing and changing default fonts in
Writer. Esay to follow and helpful.
A slightly related question:
How do I change the default font in Calc? I have vision issues and both
the Arial font structure as well as the default size are an issue for me.
While I can change each new spreadsheet's font type and size on the tool
bar, I'd prefer a manner in which I can change the default font to my
preferred one.
While I am in a Calc window, the Tools > Options> Open Office > Fonts, or
Tools>Options>Open Office > Calc or Tools>Options>Open Office > Calc Base
don't give any of the plethora of ways to change font options that are
available in an OPen Office window.
Thoughts?
Thank you in advance.
On Tue, Jul 19, 2016 at 12:44 PM, Brian Barker <b....@btinternet.com>
wrote:
> At 15:13 19/07/2016 -0400, Felmon Davis wrote:
>
>> I have a large document I work on this time of year. the default font
>> size is 11pt but now I want to change it to 10.5pt - gonna make it into a
>> booklet. simply altering the 'default' setting does not automatically
>> modify the font size through the document.
>>
>
> This depends on what you mean by the "default setting". I'm guessing that
> you have changed the value at Tools | Options... | OpenOffice Writer |
> Basic Fonts (Western) | Default - and you are right: this changes the
> default for new documents only and not anything in a document currently
> open for editing.
>
> I don't want to 'select all' since there are other font sizes bound to a
>> couple of 'styles' I'm using.
>>
>
> Good: that wouldn't be the best solution. But you are using more styles
> that those "couple" you describe, since every paragraph will have a
> paragraph style with its own font size. If you have not knowingly ascribed
> a paragraph style to any part of your document, they may have the Default
> paragraph style (not to be confused with the default set in Options as
> above).
>
> how do I change a setting and have it 'propagate' automagically through
>> the document? or is that not possible?
>>
>
> o Go to Format | Styles and Formatting (or click the Styles and Formatting
> button in the Formatting toolbar, or press F11).
> o Select the Paragraph Styles button in the button bar of that window.
> o Put the cursor into your text to see which paragraph style is
> highlighted as being used.
> o Right click the paragraph style and select Modify... .
> o Modify the font size as required.
> o If this doesn't change all the relevant parts of your document, repeat
> in unaffected parts and change those paragraph styles too.
>
> maybe copy and paste into a suitable template?
>>
>
> No need.
>
> I trust this helps.
>
> Brian Barker
>
>
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