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Posted to common-issues@hadoop.apache.org by "Radim Kolar (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org> on 2012/11/24 22:36:57 UTC

[jira] [Created] (HADOOP-9088) Add Murmur3 hash

Radim Kolar created HADOOP-9088:
-----------------------------------

             Summary: Add Murmur3 hash
                 Key: HADOOP-9088
                 URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HADOOP-9088
             Project: Hadoop Common
          Issue Type: Improvement
            Reporter: Radim Kolar


faster and better then murmur2

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[jira] [Updated] (HADOOP-9088) Add Murmur3 hash

Posted by "Radim Kolar (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
     [ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HADOOP-9088?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:all-tabpanel ]

Radim Kolar updated HADOOP-9088:
--------------------------------

    Attachment: murmur3-3.txt
    
> Add Murmur3 hash
> ----------------
>
>                 Key: HADOOP-9088
>                 URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HADOOP-9088
>             Project: Hadoop Common
>          Issue Type: Improvement
>            Reporter: Radim Kolar
>            Assignee: Radim Kolar
>         Attachments: murmur3-2.txt, murmur3-3.txt, murmur3.txt
>
>
> faster and better then murmur2

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[jira] [Updated] (HADOOP-9088) Add Murmur3 hash

Posted by "Radim Kolar (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
     [ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HADOOP-9088?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:all-tabpanel ]

Radim Kolar updated HADOOP-9088:
--------------------------------

    Attachment: murmur3.txt
    
> Add Murmur3 hash
> ----------------
>
>                 Key: HADOOP-9088
>                 URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HADOOP-9088
>             Project: Hadoop Common
>          Issue Type: Improvement
>            Reporter: Radim Kolar
>            Assignee: Radim Kolar
>         Attachments: murmur3.txt
>
>
> faster and better then murmur2

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[jira] [Commented] (HADOOP-9088) Add Murmur3 hash

Posted by "Hadoop QA (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
    [ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HADOOP-9088?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=13505008#comment-13505008 ] 

Hadoop QA commented on HADOOP-9088:
-----------------------------------

{color:green}+1 overall{color}.  Here are the results of testing the latest attachment 
  http://issues.apache.org/jira/secure/attachment/12555068/murmur3-6.txt
  against trunk revision .

    {color:green}+1 @author{color}.  The patch does not contain any @author tags.

    {color:green}+1 tests included{color}.  The patch appears to include 2 new or modified test files.

    {color:green}+1 javac{color}.  The applied patch does not increase the total number of javac compiler warnings.

    {color:green}+1 javadoc{color}.  The javadoc tool did not generate any warning messages.

    {color:green}+1 eclipse:eclipse{color}.  The patch built with eclipse:eclipse.

    {color:green}+1 findbugs{color}.  The patch does not introduce any new Findbugs (version 1.3.9) warnings.

    {color:green}+1 release audit{color}.  The applied patch does not increase the total number of release audit warnings.

    {color:green}+1 core tests{color}.  The patch passed unit tests in hadoop-common-project/hadoop-common.

    {color:green}+1 contrib tests{color}.  The patch passed contrib unit tests.

Test results: https://builds.apache.org/job/PreCommit-HADOOP-Build/1831//testReport/
Console output: https://builds.apache.org/job/PreCommit-HADOOP-Build/1831//console

This message is automatically generated.
                
> Add Murmur3 hash
> ----------------
>
>                 Key: HADOOP-9088
>                 URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HADOOP-9088
>             Project: Hadoop Common
>          Issue Type: Improvement
>            Reporter: Radim Kolar
>            Assignee: Radim Kolar
>         Attachments: murmur3-2.txt, murmur3-3.txt, murmur3-4.txt, murmur3-5.txt, murmur3-6.txt, murmur3.txt
>
>
> faster and better then murmur2

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[jira] [Commented] (HADOOP-9088) Add Murmur3 hash

Posted by "Radim Kolar (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
    [ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HADOOP-9088?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=13503600#comment-13503600 ] 

Radim Kolar commented on HADOOP-9088:
-------------------------------------

this will be faster variant of murmur3 

https://issues.apache.org/jira/secure/attachment/12501962/MAHOUT-862.patch
                
> Add Murmur3 hash
> ----------------
>
>                 Key: HADOOP-9088
>                 URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HADOOP-9088
>             Project: Hadoop Common
>          Issue Type: Improvement
>            Reporter: Radim Kolar
>            Assignee: Radim Kolar
>         Attachments: murmur3-2.txt, murmur3-3.txt, murmur3.txt
>
>
> faster and better then murmur2

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[jira] [Commented] (HADOOP-9088) Add Murmur3 hash

Posted by "Hadoop QA (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
    [ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HADOOP-9088?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=13504945#comment-13504945 ] 

Hadoop QA commented on HADOOP-9088:
-----------------------------------

{color:red}-1 overall{color}.  Here are the results of testing the latest attachment 
  http://issues.apache.org/jira/secure/attachment/12555062/murmur3-4.txt
  against trunk revision .

    {color:green}+1 @author{color}.  The patch does not contain any @author tags.

    {color:green}+1 tests included{color}.  The patch appears to include 2 new or modified test files.

    {color:red}-1 javac{color:red}.  The patch appears to cause the build to fail.

Console output: https://builds.apache.org/job/PreCommit-HADOOP-Build/1829//console

This message is automatically generated.
                
> Add Murmur3 hash
> ----------------
>
>                 Key: HADOOP-9088
>                 URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HADOOP-9088
>             Project: Hadoop Common
>          Issue Type: Improvement
>            Reporter: Radim Kolar
>            Assignee: Radim Kolar
>         Attachments: murmur3-2.txt, murmur3-3.txt, murmur3-4.txt, murmur3.txt
>
>
> faster and better then murmur2

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[jira] [Updated] (HADOOP-9088) Add Murmur3 hash

Posted by "Radim Kolar (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
     [ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HADOOP-9088?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:all-tabpanel ]

Radim Kolar updated HADOOP-9088:
--------------------------------

    Attachment: murmur3-4.txt

faster variant from mahout
                
> Add Murmur3 hash
> ----------------
>
>                 Key: HADOOP-9088
>                 URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HADOOP-9088
>             Project: Hadoop Common
>          Issue Type: Improvement
>            Reporter: Radim Kolar
>            Assignee: Radim Kolar
>         Attachments: murmur3-2.txt, murmur3-3.txt, murmur3-4.txt, murmur3.txt
>
>
> faster and better then murmur2

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[jira] [Commented] (HADOOP-9088) Add Murmur3 hash

Posted by "Hadoop QA (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
    [ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HADOOP-9088?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=13503449#comment-13503449 ] 

Hadoop QA commented on HADOOP-9088:
-----------------------------------

{color:red}-1 overall{color}.  Here are the results of testing the latest attachment 
  http://issues.apache.org/jira/secure/attachment/12554780/murmur3.txt
  against trunk revision .

    {color:green}+1 @author{color}.  The patch does not contain any @author tags.

    {color:green}+1 tests included{color}.  The patch appears to include 2 new or modified test files.

    {color:green}+1 javac{color}.  The applied patch does not increase the total number of javac compiler warnings.

    {color:green}+1 javadoc{color}.  The javadoc tool did not generate any warning messages.

    {color:green}+1 eclipse:eclipse{color}.  The patch built with eclipse:eclipse.

    {color:red}-1 findbugs{color}.  The patch appears to introduce 1 new Findbugs (version 1.3.9) warnings.

    {color:green}+1 release audit{color}.  The applied patch does not increase the total number of release audit warnings.

    {color:green}+1 core tests{color}.  The patch passed unit tests in hadoop-common-project/hadoop-common.

    {color:green}+1 contrib tests{color}.  The patch passed contrib unit tests.

Test results: https://builds.apache.org/job/PreCommit-HADOOP-Build/1816//testReport/
Findbugs warnings: https://builds.apache.org/job/PreCommit-HADOOP-Build/1816//artifact/trunk/patchprocess/newPatchFindbugsWarningshadoop-common.html
Console output: https://builds.apache.org/job/PreCommit-HADOOP-Build/1816//console

This message is automatically generated.
                
> Add Murmur3 hash
> ----------------
>
>                 Key: HADOOP-9088
>                 URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HADOOP-9088
>             Project: Hadoop Common
>          Issue Type: Improvement
>            Reporter: Radim Kolar
>            Assignee: Radim Kolar
>         Attachments: murmur3.txt
>
>
> faster and better then murmur2

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[jira] [Updated] (HADOOP-9088) Add Murmur3 hash

Posted by "Radim Kolar (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
     [ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HADOOP-9088?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:all-tabpanel ]

Radim Kolar updated HADOOP-9088:
--------------------------------

    Attachment: murmur3-2.txt

shutup findbugs
                
> Add Murmur3 hash
> ----------------
>
>                 Key: HADOOP-9088
>                 URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HADOOP-9088
>             Project: Hadoop Common
>          Issue Type: Improvement
>            Reporter: Radim Kolar
>            Assignee: Radim Kolar
>         Attachments: murmur3-2.txt, murmur3.txt
>
>
> faster and better then murmur2

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[jira] [Commented] (HADOOP-9088) Add Murmur3 hash

Posted by "Todd Lipcon (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
    [ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HADOOP-9088?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=13504824#comment-13504824 ] 

Todd Lipcon commented on HADOOP-9088:
-------------------------------------

Hi Radim. We don't currently use the murmur2 hash anywhere AFAIK. Where do you anticipate wanting to use this new hash function?
                
> Add Murmur3 hash
> ----------------
>
>                 Key: HADOOP-9088
>                 URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HADOOP-9088
>             Project: Hadoop Common
>          Issue Type: Improvement
>            Reporter: Radim Kolar
>            Assignee: Radim Kolar
>         Attachments: murmur3-2.txt, murmur3-3.txt, murmur3.txt
>
>
> faster and better then murmur2

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[jira] [Commented] (HADOOP-9088) Add Murmur3 hash

Posted by "Todd Lipcon (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
    [ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HADOOP-9088?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=13504886#comment-13504886 ] 

Todd Lipcon commented on HADOOP-9088:
-------------------------------------

I don't think HashPartitioner can be changed to use anything but Object.hashCode (which we assume the user has implemented). Changing WritableComparator to use a different hash hardly seems worth it. Have you seen cases where the existing hash code causes poor distribution?

Also, I don't think we can change the default hashcode for existing types, since it would change user-visible partitioning behavior. Adding a new TextPartitioner which uses Murmur3 sounds useful, if you can show that there are indeed real-world datasets where the "poor hash behavior" of the existing partitioner causes skew.
                
> Add Murmur3 hash
> ----------------
>
>                 Key: HADOOP-9088
>                 URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HADOOP-9088
>             Project: Hadoop Common
>          Issue Type: Improvement
>            Reporter: Radim Kolar
>            Assignee: Radim Kolar
>         Attachments: murmur3-2.txt, murmur3-3.txt, murmur3.txt
>
>
> faster and better then murmur2

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[jira] [Commented] (HADOOP-9088) Add Murmur3 hash

Posted by "Hadoop QA (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
    [ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HADOOP-9088?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=13503453#comment-13503453 ] 

Hadoop QA commented on HADOOP-9088:
-----------------------------------

{color:red}-1 overall{color}.  Here are the results of testing the latest attachment 
  http://issues.apache.org/jira/secure/attachment/12554781/murmur3-2.txt
  against trunk revision .

    {color:green}+1 @author{color}.  The patch does not contain any @author tags.

    {color:green}+1 tests included{color}.  The patch appears to include 2 new or modified test files.

    {color:green}+1 javac{color}.  The applied patch does not increase the total number of javac compiler warnings.

    {color:green}+1 javadoc{color}.  The javadoc tool did not generate any warning messages.

    {color:green}+1 eclipse:eclipse{color}.  The patch built with eclipse:eclipse.

    {color:red}-1 findbugs{color}.  The patch appears to introduce 1 new Findbugs (version 1.3.9) warnings.

    {color:green}+1 release audit{color}.  The applied patch does not increase the total number of release audit warnings.

    {color:green}+1 core tests{color}.  The patch passed unit tests in hadoop-common-project/hadoop-common.

    {color:green}+1 contrib tests{color}.  The patch passed contrib unit tests.

Test results: https://builds.apache.org/job/PreCommit-HADOOP-Build/1817//testReport/
Findbugs warnings: https://builds.apache.org/job/PreCommit-HADOOP-Build/1817//artifact/trunk/patchprocess/newPatchFindbugsWarningshadoop-common.html
Console output: https://builds.apache.org/job/PreCommit-HADOOP-Build/1817//console

This message is automatically generated.
                
> Add Murmur3 hash
> ----------------
>
>                 Key: HADOOP-9088
>                 URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HADOOP-9088
>             Project: Hadoop Common
>          Issue Type: Improvement
>            Reporter: Radim Kolar
>            Assignee: Radim Kolar
>         Attachments: murmur3-2.txt, murmur3.txt
>
>
> faster and better then murmur2

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[jira] [Assigned] (HADOOP-9088) Add Murmur3 hash

Posted by "Radim Kolar (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
     [ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HADOOP-9088?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:all-tabpanel ]

Radim Kolar reassigned HADOOP-9088:
-----------------------------------

    Assignee: Radim Kolar
    
> Add Murmur3 hash
> ----------------
>
>                 Key: HADOOP-9088
>                 URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HADOOP-9088
>             Project: Hadoop Common
>          Issue Type: Improvement
>            Reporter: Radim Kolar
>            Assignee: Radim Kolar
>
> faster and better then murmur2

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[jira] [Commented] (HADOOP-9088) Add Murmur3 hash

Posted by "Hadoop QA (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
    [ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HADOOP-9088?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=13504955#comment-13504955 ] 

Hadoop QA commented on HADOOP-9088:
-----------------------------------

{color:red}-1 overall{color}.  Here are the results of testing the latest attachment 
  http://issues.apache.org/jira/secure/attachment/12555064/murmur3-5.txt
  against trunk revision .

    {color:green}+1 @author{color}.  The patch does not contain any @author tags.

    {color:green}+1 tests included{color}.  The patch appears to include 2 new or modified test files.

    {color:red}-1 javac{color:red}.  The patch appears to cause the build to fail.

Console output: https://builds.apache.org/job/PreCommit-HADOOP-Build/1830//console

This message is automatically generated.
                
> Add Murmur3 hash
> ----------------
>
>                 Key: HADOOP-9088
>                 URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HADOOP-9088
>             Project: Hadoop Common
>          Issue Type: Improvement
>            Reporter: Radim Kolar
>            Assignee: Radim Kolar
>         Attachments: murmur3-2.txt, murmur3-3.txt, murmur3-4.txt, murmur3-5.txt, murmur3.txt
>
>
> faster and better then murmur2

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[jira] [Updated] (HADOOP-9088) Add Murmur3 hash

Posted by "Radim Kolar (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
     [ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HADOOP-9088?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:all-tabpanel ]

Radim Kolar updated HADOOP-9088:
--------------------------------

    Status: Patch Available  (was: Open)
    
> Add Murmur3 hash
> ----------------
>
>                 Key: HADOOP-9088
>                 URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HADOOP-9088
>             Project: Hadoop Common
>          Issue Type: Improvement
>            Reporter: Radim Kolar
>
> faster and better then murmur2

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[jira] [Commented] (HADOOP-9088) Add Murmur3 hash

Posted by "Radim Kolar (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
    [ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HADOOP-9088?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=13504865#comment-13504865 ] 

Radim Kolar commented on HADOOP-9088:
-------------------------------------

to improve hashing. WritableComparator hash is weak (used by binarypartitioner), HashPartitioner sucks even more (using object.hashcode), i will add TextPartitioner using murmur3, it have good distribution of results.
                
> Add Murmur3 hash
> ----------------
>
>                 Key: HADOOP-9088
>                 URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HADOOP-9088
>             Project: Hadoop Common
>          Issue Type: Improvement
>            Reporter: Radim Kolar
>            Assignee: Radim Kolar
>         Attachments: murmur3-2.txt, murmur3-3.txt, murmur3.txt
>
>
> faster and better then murmur2

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[jira] [Updated] (HADOOP-9088) Add Murmur3 hash

Posted by "Radim Kolar (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
     [ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HADOOP-9088?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:all-tabpanel ]

Radim Kolar updated HADOOP-9088:
--------------------------------

    Attachment: murmur3-6.txt
    
> Add Murmur3 hash
> ----------------
>
>                 Key: HADOOP-9088
>                 URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HADOOP-9088
>             Project: Hadoop Common
>          Issue Type: Improvement
>            Reporter: Radim Kolar
>            Assignee: Radim Kolar
>         Attachments: murmur3-2.txt, murmur3-3.txt, murmur3-4.txt, murmur3-5.txt, murmur3-6.txt, murmur3.txt
>
>
> faster and better then murmur2

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[jira] [Commented] (HADOOP-9088) Add Murmur3 hash

Posted by "Radim Kolar (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
    [ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HADOOP-9088?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=13504919#comment-13504919 ] 

Radim Kolar commented on HADOOP-9088:
-------------------------------------

Hash partitioner can do same thing like java hashtable - rehashing hashCode() to get better distribution. current hash quality in hadoop is low if you have lot of similar strings like "aaaaaaaa" "aaaaaab" you will get about 20% unoptimal partitions in average cases. but in some specific cases it can split like 80:20 istead of close 50:50
                
> Add Murmur3 hash
> ----------------
>
>                 Key: HADOOP-9088
>                 URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HADOOP-9088
>             Project: Hadoop Common
>          Issue Type: Improvement
>            Reporter: Radim Kolar
>            Assignee: Radim Kolar
>         Attachments: murmur3-2.txt, murmur3-3.txt, murmur3.txt
>
>
> faster and better then murmur2

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[jira] [Commented] (HADOOP-9088) Add Murmur3 hash

Posted by "Hadoop QA (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
    [ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HADOOP-9088?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=13503457#comment-13503457 ] 

Hadoop QA commented on HADOOP-9088:
-----------------------------------

{color:green}+1 overall{color}.  Here are the results of testing the latest attachment 
  http://issues.apache.org/jira/secure/attachment/12554783/murmur3-3.txt
  against trunk revision .

    {color:green}+1 @author{color}.  The patch does not contain any @author tags.

    {color:green}+1 tests included{color}.  The patch appears to include 2 new or modified test files.

    {color:green}+1 javac{color}.  The applied patch does not increase the total number of javac compiler warnings.

    {color:green}+1 javadoc{color}.  The javadoc tool did not generate any warning messages.

    {color:green}+1 eclipse:eclipse{color}.  The patch built with eclipse:eclipse.

    {color:green}+1 findbugs{color}.  The patch does not introduce any new Findbugs (version 1.3.9) warnings.

    {color:green}+1 release audit{color}.  The applied patch does not increase the total number of release audit warnings.

    {color:green}+1 core tests{color}.  The patch passed unit tests in hadoop-common-project/hadoop-common.

    {color:green}+1 contrib tests{color}.  The patch passed contrib unit tests.

Test results: https://builds.apache.org/job/PreCommit-HADOOP-Build/1818//testReport/
Console output: https://builds.apache.org/job/PreCommit-HADOOP-Build/1818//console

This message is automatically generated.
                
> Add Murmur3 hash
> ----------------
>
>                 Key: HADOOP-9088
>                 URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HADOOP-9088
>             Project: Hadoop Common
>          Issue Type: Improvement
>            Reporter: Radim Kolar
>            Assignee: Radim Kolar
>         Attachments: murmur3-2.txt, murmur3-3.txt, murmur3.txt
>
>
> faster and better then murmur2

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[jira] [Commented] (HADOOP-9088) Add Murmur3 hash

Posted by "Radim Kolar (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
    [ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HADOOP-9088?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=13504941#comment-13504941 ] 

Radim Kolar commented on HADOOP-9088:
-------------------------------------

bloom filter code is using util.Hash family of functions
                
> Add Murmur3 hash
> ----------------
>
>                 Key: HADOOP-9088
>                 URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HADOOP-9088
>             Project: Hadoop Common
>          Issue Type: Improvement
>            Reporter: Radim Kolar
>            Assignee: Radim Kolar
>         Attachments: murmur3-2.txt, murmur3-3.txt, murmur3-4.txt, murmur3.txt
>
>
> faster and better then murmur2

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[jira] [Updated] (HADOOP-9088) Add Murmur3 hash

Posted by "Radim Kolar (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
     [ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HADOOP-9088?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:all-tabpanel ]

Radim Kolar updated HADOOP-9088:
--------------------------------

    Attachment: murmur3-5.txt
    
> Add Murmur3 hash
> ----------------
>
>                 Key: HADOOP-9088
>                 URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HADOOP-9088
>             Project: Hadoop Common
>          Issue Type: Improvement
>            Reporter: Radim Kolar
>            Assignee: Radim Kolar
>         Attachments: murmur3-2.txt, murmur3-3.txt, murmur3-4.txt, murmur3-5.txt, murmur3.txt
>
>
> faster and better then murmur2

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