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Posted to dev@plc4x.apache.org by ranjid abjidinhija <ra...@outlook.com> on 2020/04/16 08:13:39 UTC
Need help with PLC4J
Hello,
this is Ranjid. I'm an certified engineer from India employed in pharma industries and i recently discovered your project.
I am working with PLCs from Siemens. I accieved to read and write IO and data blocks with PLC4J already.
Is it possible to read the software itself from the PLC, too? Could PLC software even be manipulated with the aid of PLC4J? I need to reverse engineer existing software, but do not have access to the source code.
Can you help me with this, please?
Best regards,
Ranjid
Re: Need help with PLC4J
Posted by Cesar Garcia <ce...@ceos.com.ve>.
Hello everyone,
I definitely agree that trying to generate code for S7 is not a good idea,
especially in the industries you work with that have very specific and
standardized procedures for controller programming [1].
From a purely practical point of view you can evaluate the applications
developed by Siemens for processes called Braumat Classic. They do magic
with the programming of blocks and indexed addresses (pointer handling) [2].
If you want to investigate by way of self-learning, I leave you two links
that can help you in this topic [3] [4], there are examples of how to
extract the headers of the programming blocks.
Also in this forum [5], if I remember correctly, there is a person who
placed the nemonics (AWL) of an S7 on an excel sheet but they were
incomplete. I must have it somewhere.
May the force be with you, Ranjid.
Best regards,
1.
https://www.isa.org/standards-and-publications/isa-publications/intech-magazine/2004/november/cover-story-plc-validation-plc-on-drugs/
2.
https://support.industry.siemens.com/cs/document/80142364/braumat-sistar-operator-manual?dti=0&lc=en-WW
3.https://github.com/glcj/DotNetSiemensPLCToolBoxLibrary
4. https://github.com/glcj/s7-diff-merge
5. https://www.sps-forum.de/
El jue., 16 abr. 2020 a las 5:16, Christofer Dutz (<
christofer.dutz@c-ware.de>) escribió:
> Hi Ranjid,
>
> and let me perhaps add a little more to this ... having written the first
> S7 driver, I deliberately didn't implement the parts of any protocol to
> extract and even more important to update any PLC program.
>
> For me the risks of manipulating PLCs was just too big. Recently we
> discussed the option to extract the running program from an S7 PLC in order
> to implement some semi-symbolic addressing, but I will definitely not
> support any efforts in updating a PLCs programs as the potential harm
> overweighs the benefits by far (In my humble opinion)
>
> Decoding/Disassembling and recompiling PLC code would also totally exceed
> the scope and the manpower of this project ... just thinking about how many
> PLCs are out there.
>
> But I hope you like what we did so far :-)
>
>
> Chris
>
>
>
> Am 16.04.20, 11:09 schrieb "Julian Feinauer" <
> j.feinauer@pragmaticminds.de>:
>
> Hi Ranjid,
>
> very happy to have you here : )
>
> Currently we are not able to do that although in theory it should be
> possible.. at least to read the (compiled) software.
> Manipulate in the sense to change it reasonably rather not, I guess as
> its all compiled code : /
>
> Hope this helps you at least a bit?
>
> Julian
>
> Am 16.04.20, 10:42 schrieb "ranjid abjidinhija" <
> ranjidabjidinhija@outlook.com>:
>
> Hello,
>
> this is Ranjid. I'm an certified engineer from India employed in
> pharma industries and i recently discovered your project.
>
> I am working with PLCs from Siemens. I accieved to read and write
> IO and data blocks with PLC4J already.
> Is it possible to read the software itself from the PLC, too?
> Could PLC software even be manipulated with the aid of PLC4J? I need to
> reverse engineer existing software, but do not have access to the source
> code.
> Can you help me with this, please?
>
> Best regards,
> Ranjid
>
>
>
>
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*Email: support.aan.automation@siemens.com
<su...@siemens.com>*
Re: Need help with PLC4J
Posted by Christofer Dutz <ch...@c-ware.de>.
Hi Ranjid,
and let me perhaps add a little more to this ... having written the first S7 driver, I deliberately didn't implement the parts of any protocol to extract and even more important to update any PLC program.
For me the risks of manipulating PLCs was just too big. Recently we discussed the option to extract the running program from an S7 PLC in order to implement some semi-symbolic addressing, but I will definitely not support any efforts in updating a PLCs programs as the potential harm overweighs the benefits by far (In my humble opinion)
Decoding/Disassembling and recompiling PLC code would also totally exceed the scope and the manpower of this project ... just thinking about how many PLCs are out there.
But I hope you like what we did so far :-)
Chris
Am 16.04.20, 11:09 schrieb "Julian Feinauer" <j....@pragmaticminds.de>:
Hi Ranjid,
very happy to have you here : )
Currently we are not able to do that although in theory it should be possible.. at least to read the (compiled) software.
Manipulate in the sense to change it reasonably rather not, I guess as its all compiled code : /
Hope this helps you at least a bit?
Julian
Am 16.04.20, 10:42 schrieb "ranjid abjidinhija" <ra...@outlook.com>:
Hello,
this is Ranjid. I'm an certified engineer from India employed in pharma industries and i recently discovered your project.
I am working with PLCs from Siemens. I accieved to read and write IO and data blocks with PLC4J already.
Is it possible to read the software itself from the PLC, too? Could PLC software even be manipulated with the aid of PLC4J? I need to reverse engineer existing software, but do not have access to the source code.
Can you help me with this, please?
Best regards,
Ranjid
Re: Need help with PLC4J
Posted by Julian Feinauer <j....@pragmaticminds.de>.
Hi Ranjid,
very happy to have you here : )
Currently we are not able to do that although in theory it should be possible.. at least to read the (compiled) software.
Manipulate in the sense to change it reasonably rather not, I guess as its all compiled code : /
Hope this helps you at least a bit?
Julian
Am 16.04.20, 10:42 schrieb "ranjid abjidinhija" <ra...@outlook.com>:
Hello,
this is Ranjid. I'm an certified engineer from India employed in pharma industries and i recently discovered your project.
I am working with PLCs from Siemens. I accieved to read and write IO and data blocks with PLC4J already.
Is it possible to read the software itself from the PLC, too? Could PLC software even be manipulated with the aid of PLC4J? I need to reverse engineer existing software, but do not have access to the source code.
Can you help me with this, please?
Best regards,
Ranjid
Re: Need help with PLC4J
Posted by Julian Feinauer <j....@pragmaticminds.de>.
To be fair... I would love to... but yes, ist not our scope ATM.
Julian
Am 17.04.20, 23:59 schrieb "Strljic, Matthias Milan" <ma...@isw.uni-stuttgart.de>:
Hi Ranjid,
welcome to our community!
But as far as i know Siemens PLC does not allow like Beckhoff PLCs to change their programm/features over their automation protocol.
So i think you will have no luck with that over the automation protocol.
Because of the focus of the projekt PLC4X. I think we will also not targeting interfaces to change/manipulate the controle logic of a PLC like Chris mentioned.
Best regards
Matthias
________________________________
Von: ranjid abjidinhija <ra...@outlook.com>
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 16. April 2020 10:13:39
An: dev@plc4x.apache.org
Betreff: Need help with PLC4J
Hello,
this is Ranjid. I'm an certified engineer from India employed in pharma industries and i recently discovered your project.
I am working with PLCs from Siemens. I accieved to read and write IO and data blocks with PLC4J already.
Is it possible to read the software itself from the PLC, too? Could PLC software even be manipulated with the aid of PLC4J? I need to reverse engineer existing software, but do not have access to the source code.
Can you help me with this, please?
Best regards,
Ranjid
AW: Need help with PLC4J
Posted by "Strljic, Matthias Milan" <ma...@isw.uni-stuttgart.de>.
Hi Ranjid,
welcome to our community!
But as far as i know Siemens PLC does not allow like Beckhoff PLCs to change their programm/features over their automation protocol.
So i think you will have no luck with that over the automation protocol.
Because of the focus of the projekt PLC4X. I think we will also not targeting interfaces to change/manipulate the controle logic of a PLC like Chris mentioned.
Best regards
Matthias
________________________________
Von: ranjid abjidinhija <ra...@outlook.com>
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 16. April 2020 10:13:39
An: dev@plc4x.apache.org
Betreff: Need help with PLC4J
Hello,
this is Ranjid. I'm an certified engineer from India employed in pharma industries and i recently discovered your project.
I am working with PLCs from Siemens. I accieved to read and write IO and data blocks with PLC4J already.
Is it possible to read the software itself from the PLC, too? Could PLC software even be manipulated with the aid of PLC4J? I need to reverse engineer existing software, but do not have access to the source code.
Can you help me with this, please?
Best regards,
Ranjid