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Posted to users@spamassassin.apache.org by Tony Bunce <to...@go-concepts.com> on 2008/02/25 17:54:24 UTC
[OT] Yahoo Deferred
Sorry for the Off Topic thread but I'm at a loss.
Is anyone else having issues sending mail to Yahoo?
They are returning 421 Message temporarily deferred to every message my servers try to send. My server then retries like it should but yahoo never accepts the message, even after day of retrying. Google turned up several people having the same issue but no one with a solution. My DSN is right, I have SPF records, and sign outgoing messages using DomainKeys.
I've filled out every form on the yahoo support site without any luck at all. Anyone else seeing this problem or know of a way to get to a real person at yahoo? There are a few reports online that yahoo has a paid support phone number that will fix the problem but no one list a phone number, and as much as I don't want to pay yahoo just to accept my messages I'm running out of options and the customer complaints are getting more frequent every day.
________________________________
Tony Bunce: tonyb@go-concepts.com<ma...@go-concepts.com>
Sr. Programming Systems Administrator - GO Concepts Inc.<http://www.go-concepts.com/>
Phone: (513) 934-8234
Re: [OT] Yahoo Deferred
Posted by Michelle Konzack <li...@freenet.de>.
Am 2008-02-28 15:30:43, schrieb Mike Jackson:
> Not "nearly impossible." I work daily with people who run servers
> exactly like that, yet spam of all sorts is spewing from their mail
> queues. Most of the ones I see are SMTP accounts with weak passwords.
> The spammers authenticate as the users and bam, the server is a spam source.
This would be definitivly noticed since I have (annonym) statistics of
send/received messages per account. So if there is one $USER getting
normaly 10 messages a day and then one day he/she get 100, the account
is probably victim of a spamer and a SOS script inform me immediatlly
to check the status...
The same is for sending messages... There are not realy much peoples
sending more then 10 messages per HOUR. So a hijacked account would
me immediatly send me a SOS message...
> With Hotmail, make sure that you have a reverse DNS record for your
> server's sending IP, that the A record for that name resolves to the
> same IP, and that your SMTP banner greeting lists the same name. Also,
Yeah, this is all working for some years now...
> if you use SPF records, do not use the PTR option - they reject mail
> from domains that contain that option.
I do not use it...
Thanks, Greetings and nice Day
Michelle Konzack
Systemadministrator
24V Electronic Engineer
Tamay Dogan Network
Debian GNU/Linux Consultant
--
Linux-User #280138 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org/
##################### Debian GNU/Linux Consultant #####################
Michelle Konzack Apt. 917 ICQ #328449886
+49/177/9351947 50, rue de Soultz MSN LinuxMichi
+33/6/61925193 67100 Strasbourg/France IRC #Debian (irc.icq.com)
Re: [OT] Yahoo Deferred
Posted by Mike Jackson <mj...@barking-dog.net>.
>> Not "nearly impossible." I work daily with people who run servers
>> exactly like that, yet spam of all sorts is spewing from their mail
>> queues. Most of the ones I see are SMTP accounts with weak passwords.
>> The spammers authenticate as the users and bam, the server is a spam source.
>
> With Exim this can be substantially limited with a ratelimit.
>
> http://www.exim.org/exim-html-current/doc/html/spec_html/ch40.html#SECTratelimiting
>
> I use something like this.
>
> warn ratelimit = 200 / 1h / per_rcpt / strict
> delay = 10s
> log_message = Sender $sender_address rate $sender_rate /
> $sender_rate_period excedes limit delayed 10 seconds
>
> It does not work as well when using webmail since messages all appear
> to come from 127.0.0.1. I did find a plugin for Squirrelmail that
> limits max recipients and messages sent per day and per account which
> works well though.
Unfortunately, in my environment it's mostly Linux boxes running Plesk,
which uses Qmail as its MTA. Since users can set their own passwords,
you end up with lousy passwords like "password" or "12345". The only
password restrictions are dictionary checks, which don't do much to
prevent stupidity.
Re: [OT] Yahoo Deferred
Posted by Matt <lm...@gmail.com>.
> > I have heavy issues with HOTMAIL since they reject ANY legitim messages
> > as SPAM without any reason. All of my 50 Servers are worldwide and in
> > different subnets. It is nearly impossible that all 50 Servers have
> > spamed HOTMAIL, since my servers accept only authenticated SMTP from
> > clients.
>
> Not "nearly impossible." I work daily with people who run servers
> exactly like that, yet spam of all sorts is spewing from their mail
> queues. Most of the ones I see are SMTP accounts with weak passwords.
> The spammers authenticate as the users and bam, the server is a spam source.
With Exim this can be substantially limited with a ratelimit.
http://www.exim.org/exim-html-current/doc/html/spec_html/ch40.html#SECTratelimiting
I use something like this.
warn ratelimit = 200 / 1h / per_rcpt / strict
delay = 10s
log_message = Sender $sender_address rate $sender_rate /
$sender_rate_period excedes limit delayed 10 seconds
It does not work as well when using webmail since messages all appear
to come from 127.0.0.1. I did find a plugin for Squirrelmail that
limits max recipients and messages sent per day and per account which
works well though.
Matt
> With Hotmail, make sure that you have a reverse DNS record for your
> server's sending IP, that the A record for that name resolves to the
> same IP, and that your SMTP banner greeting lists the same name. Also,
> if you use SPF records, do not use the PTR option - they reject mail
> from domains that contain that option.
Re: [OT] Yahoo Deferred
Posted by Mike Jackson <mj...@barking-dog.net>.
> I have heavy issues with HOTMAIL since they reject ANY legitim messages
> as SPAM without any reason. All of my 50 Servers are worldwide and in
> different subnets. It is nearly impossible that all 50 Servers have
> spamed HOTMAIL, since my servers accept only authenticated SMTP from
> clients.
Not "nearly impossible." I work daily with people who run servers
exactly like that, yet spam of all sorts is spewing from their mail
queues. Most of the ones I see are SMTP accounts with weak passwords.
The spammers authenticate as the users and bam, the server is a spam source.
With Hotmail, make sure that you have a reverse DNS record for your
server's sending IP, that the A record for that name resolves to the
same IP, and that your SMTP banner greeting lists the same name. Also,
if you use SPF records, do not use the PTR option - they reject mail
from domains that contain that option.
Re: [OT] Yahoo Deferred
Posted by Michelle Konzack <li...@freenet.de>.
Hello Michael,
Am 2008-02-26 11:16:35, schrieb Michael Hutchinson:
> I have tried different approaches, and let us not forget I have filled
> out 3 whitelist forms, and received no response from Yahoo. Their
> service is breaking RFC's by not delivering mail. They are ignorant
> towards other companies trying to use their service.
I have heavy issues with HOTMAIL since they reject ANY legitim messages
as SPAM without any reason. All of my 50 Servers are worldwide and in
different subnets. It is nearly impossible that all 50 Servers have
spamed HOTMAIL, since my servers accept only authenticated SMTP from
clients.
I am not registered on ANY blacklists (except <sorbs> which is a crap
service billing innocent ISP's and peoples instead of spamers) but can
not send to my customers unsing HOTMAIL adresses.
since <hotmail.fr> exist, I am looking for the FRENCH legal address and
I will su them since in Europe, E-Mail is falling under the "Post- &
Telecommunication Law", which mean, rejecting legitim messages is like,
the French Post is rejection any Letters coming from the USA.
And another problem is, that because of HOTMAIL I have already lost
money... And you know, ISP-Business is hard!
> Do away with Yahoo.
FullACK! ...but add at least Hotmail too!
> Setup mail on your own domains for your users. Even if it means
> creating separate home addresses if they want them.
>
> Even having two addresses at one domain for one person is better than
> having to deal with Yahoo.
> ewan@domain.com
> ewan_home@domain.com
Most ISP's worldwide are offering an E-Mail
where you can put ALIASES on it...
> Personally, I'd rather blacklist the whole yahoo domain, and tell our
> clients that Yahoo is not an acceptable email address, that they will
> need a real one.
As I have written in a previosly message: Since I can not reach my
customers using <hotmail.com> I reject all messages from them and
leafe a message to let them know WHY.
And yes, this bounces are working fine and going correctly back to
the sending <hotmail.com> account... Now, my Cell-Phone is smoking
from international calls and they do not understand WHY I can not
send messages to them...
> A real one - that delivers and receives mail, like a mail server
> should.
:-)
In some weeks I am offering (not free but cheap) E-Mail-Accounts for
1 Euro/month and 50 MByte Mailbox with 5 Aliases...
BUT ONLY FOR PEOPLES WHICH AUTHENTICATE THEM SELF WITH AN OFFICIAL ID.
Thanks, Greetings and nice Day
Michelle Konzack
Systemadministrator
Tamay Dogan Network
Debian GNU/Linux Consultant
--
Linux-User #280138 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org/
##################### Debian GNU/Linux Consultant #####################
Michelle Konzack Apt. 917 ICQ #328449886
+49/177/9351947 50, rue de Soultz MSN LinuxMichi
+33/6/61925193 67100 Strasbourg/France IRC #Debian (irc.icq.com)
Re: [OT] Yahoo Deferred
Posted by mouss <mo...@netoyen.net>.
Michael Hutchinson wrote:
>>> I have tried different approaches, and let us not forget I have
>>>
> filled
>
>> out 3 whitelist forms, and received no response from Yahoo. Their
>>
> service
>
>> is breaking RFC's by not delivering mail. They are ignorant towards
>>
> other
>
>> companies trying to use their service.
>> But they do deliver the mail. You've even said so above. If this is
>>
> for
>
>> paid for accounts, I can see there being an issue. If it is for free
>> accounts, how do you think they make their money to support free
>> accounts? By requiring the free accounts to login to do some things.
>>
>
> Delivering mail via a filter we have no control of, directly to a folder
> the user never see's, is not delivering mail, in my book. Or a lot of
> people's book.
>
This doesn't break the RFC. This is bad service for their users, not a
conformance issue. A lot of people put mail believed to be spam in a
spam folder or a quarantine. The problem is when people don't check
their Junk folder. I would prefer if providers let users actively opt
in, or at least warn them or whatever, but as you know design is driven
by the needs for $lusers, because they represent the majority of people.
lusers would quit the service if they get too much spam. on the other
hand, every free webmail user I've discussed with said "I never get any
spam and I never lost any mail at ${foo bar webmail}". and this is what
makes a service "successful" from a business perspective ;-p
PS. Silently discarding mail is another issue. I've seen this at hotmail
and not at yahoo (I don't mean it doesn't happen at yahoo, I simply mean
that my own tests didn't show such behaviour).
> It is for paid accounts, by the way.
>
> I'm not about to start seeing that what Yahoo is doing is acceptable or
> correct. No matter what "sense" you try and make of it.
>
"junking" a lot of legitimate mail is bad in any site (discarding is
worst). This means the filter quality is bad (too many FPs). that said,
it is the account owner's responsibility to complain or to find a more
reliable provider, unless said owner is happy not getting too much spam.
I've had the problem with yahoo, gmail and hotmail last year. it was
ultimately "fixed" (without DKIM btw) but the site didn't send a "huge"
quantity of mail, and wasn't really bulk. It was a "social" application,
but members could generate too much mail (to my taste) to their own
addresses (get alerts regarding their "friends" events). so the issue is
not that of sending mail to a lot of people, but sending a lot of mail
to few people. this is easier but still challenging.
RE: [OT] Yahoo Deferred
Posted by Michael Hutchinson <mh...@manux.co.nz>.
> > I have tried different approaches, and let us not forget I have
filled
> out 3 whitelist forms, and received no response from Yahoo. Their
service
> is breaking RFC's by not delivering mail. They are ignorant towards
other
> companies trying to use their service.
> But they do deliver the mail. You've even said so above. If this is
for
> paid for accounts, I can see there being an issue. If it is for free
> accounts, how do you think they make their money to support free
> accounts? By requiring the free accounts to login to do some things.
Delivering mail via a filter we have no control of, directly to a folder
the user never see's, is not delivering mail, in my book. Or a lot of
people's book.
It is for paid accounts, by the way.
I'm not about to start seeing that what Yahoo is doing is acceptable or
correct. No matter what "sense" you try and make of it.
Cheers,
Mike
Re: [OT] Yahoo Deferred
Posted by Richard Frovarp <ri...@sendit.nodak.edu>.
Michael Hutchinson wrote:
> --- original message ---________________________________________
>
>> From: Tony Bunce [mailto:tonyb@go-concepts.com]
>> Sent: Tuesday, 26 February 2008 5:54 a.m.
>> To: users@spamassassin.apache.org
>> Subject: [OT] Yahoo Deferred
>>
>> Sorry for the Off Topic thread but I'm at a loss.
>>
>> Is anyone else having issues sending mail to Yahoo?
>>
>> They are returning 421 Message temporarily deferred to every message my >servers try to send. My server then retries like it should but yahoo never >accepts the message, even after day of retrying. Google turned up >several people having the same issue but no one with a solution. My DSN is >right, I have SPF records, and sign outgoing messages using DomainKeys.
>>
>> I've filled out every form on the yahoo support site without any luck at >all. Anyone else seeing this problem or know of a way to get to a real >person at yahoo? There are a few reports online that yahoo has a paid >support phone number that will fix the problem but no one list a phone >number, and as much as I don't want to pay yahoo just to accept my messages > I'm running out of options and the customer complaints are getting more >frequent every day.
>>
>
> Ahem. <mutters stuff about yahoo, for minutes, before replying>
>
> OK now I've calmed down... We have the Yahoo issue as well. It caused major problems for us as a large client of ours has a lot of workers that use Xtra (now yahoo) email addresses for home. And all of a sudden, mail stopped being delivered from the clients server to Xtra/Yahoo email boxes.
>
> We were not receiving a bounce, though, the messages were being tagged as Spam and being automatically filed under the Yahoo user's Spam folder, which they do not see unless they log into webmail. Apparently this is because of Yahoo's per-user Bayesian database. In other words, if we'd have to be willing to talk every Xtra user through logging into webmail and training the Bayes filter by telling it what messages are/aren't spam, until it properly delivers mail. Which we are not. Why should we, it's not like our clients mail server has been spamming Yahoo.
>
> I have contacted Telecom and Xtra about the issue, and they're unable to help... The situation is "out of their control". Fair enough, so I tried to contact Yahoo. What a joke. By the time they've sent you a bulk mail form (which is just trying to get you to agree that you're a bulk mailer, an opportunity for them to ignore the problem) 3 or 4 times, and you agree to fill it out, and do, and wait and wait and wait, and lo and behold, nothing happens.
>
> There is no Network Operations Centre to contact at Yahoo, or if there is one, they're keeping it to themselves. This is rather irresponsible from a provider point of view. How are people supposed to report complex issues with a service, if the people you _DO_ get to talk to are just low-level help-you-with-your-email-password worker-bee's who know nothing about email delivery behind the scenes?
>
> I have tried different approaches, and let us not forget I have filled out 3 whitelist forms, and received no response from Yahoo. Their service is breaking RFC's by not delivering mail. They are ignorant towards other companies trying to use their service.
But they do deliver the mail. You've even said so above. If this is for
paid for accounts, I can see there being an issue. If it is for free
accounts, how do you think they make their money to support free
accounts? By requiring the free accounts to login to do some things.
RE: [OT] Yahoo Deferred
Posted by Michael Hutchinson <mh...@manux.co.nz>.
--- original message ---________________________________________
>From: Tony Bunce [mailto:tonyb@go-concepts.com]
>Sent: Tuesday, 26 February 2008 5:54 a.m.
>To: users@spamassassin.apache.org
>Subject: [OT] Yahoo Deferred
>
>Sorry for the Off Topic thread but I'm at a loss.
>
>Is anyone else having issues sending mail to Yahoo?
>
>They are returning 421 Message temporarily deferred to every message my >servers try to send. My server then retries like it should but yahoo never >accepts the message, even after day of retrying. Google turned up >several people having the same issue but no one with a solution. My DSN is >right, I have SPF records, and sign outgoing messages using DomainKeys.
>
>I've filled out every form on the yahoo support site without any luck at >all. Anyone else seeing this problem or know of a way to get to a real >person at yahoo? There are a few reports online that yahoo has a paid >support phone number that will fix the problem but no one list a phone >number, and as much as I don't want to pay yahoo just to accept my messages > I'm running out of options and the customer complaints are getting more >frequent every day.
Ahem. <mutters stuff about yahoo, for minutes, before replying>
OK now I've calmed down... We have the Yahoo issue as well. It caused major problems for us as a large client of ours has a lot of workers that use Xtra (now yahoo) email addresses for home. And all of a sudden, mail stopped being delivered from the clients server to Xtra/Yahoo email boxes.
We were not receiving a bounce, though, the messages were being tagged as Spam and being automatically filed under the Yahoo user's Spam folder, which they do not see unless they log into webmail. Apparently this is because of Yahoo's per-user Bayesian database. In other words, if we'd have to be willing to talk every Xtra user through logging into webmail and training the Bayes filter by telling it what messages are/aren't spam, until it properly delivers mail. Which we are not. Why should we, it's not like our clients mail server has been spamming Yahoo.
I have contacted Telecom and Xtra about the issue, and they're unable to help... The situation is "out of their control". Fair enough, so I tried to contact Yahoo. What a joke. By the time they've sent you a bulk mail form (which is just trying to get you to agree that you're a bulk mailer, an opportunity for them to ignore the problem) 3 or 4 times, and you agree to fill it out, and do, and wait and wait and wait, and lo and behold, nothing happens.
There is no Network Operations Centre to contact at Yahoo, or if there is one, they're keeping it to themselves. This is rather irresponsible from a provider point of view. How are people supposed to report complex issues with a service, if the people you _DO_ get to talk to are just low-level help-you-with-your-email-password worker-bee's who know nothing about email delivery behind the scenes?
I have tried different approaches, and let us not forget I have filled out 3 whitelist forms, and received no response from Yahoo. Their service is breaking RFC's by not delivering mail. They are ignorant towards other companies trying to use their service.
I even got into a big argument with my boss about this issue, he of course couldn't understand how my hands could be tied so quickly, but what can you do when the offending people won't come to the party, or even talk to you.
My recommendation, though we've not done this yet, is to direct everyone away from their email service. They obviously do not want to host people's email. If they did, they would listen/respond to other administrators, and they wouldn't be breaking rules in a negligent manner.
Do away with Yahoo.
Setup mail on your own domains for your users. Even if it means creating separate home addresses if they want them.
Even having two addresses at one domain for one person is better than having to deal with Yahoo.
ewan@domain.com
ewan_home@domain.com
Personally, I'd rather blacklist the whole yahoo domain, and tell our clients that Yahoo is not an acceptable email address, that they will need a real one.
A real one - that delivers and receives mail, like a mail server should.
Cheers
Michael Hutchinson
mhutchinson@notatyahoo.yay.com
mhutchinson@manux.co.nz
Re: [OT] Yahoo Deferred
Posted by Michelle Konzack <li...@freenet.de>.
Hello Tom,
Am 2008-02-25 11:54:24, schrieb Tony Bunce:
> Sorry for the Off Topic thread but I'm at a loss.
>
> Is anyone else having issues sending mail to Yahoo?
I have since arround 5 weeks the same issues with <hotmail.com> rejecting
ANY messages as spam with unknown reason.
> I've filled out every form on the yahoo support site without any luck
> at all. Anyone else seeing this problem or know of a way to get to a
> real person at yahoo? There are a few reports online that yahoo has a
Same here with Hotmail.
I can not more reach any customers using Hotmail...
> paid support phone number that will fix the problem but no one list a
> phone number, and as much as I don't want to pay yahoo just to accept
> my messages I'm running out of options and the customer complaints
> are getting more frequent every day.
To let my customers know, that there is a problem, I reject the messages
from them with a reason and let them know, that they have to contact
"Hotmail" to get this problem solved...
Thanks, Greetings and nice Day
Michelle Konzack
Systemadministrator
Tamay Dogan Network
Debian GNU/Linux Consultant
--
Linux-User #280138 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org/
##################### Debian GNU/Linux Consultant #####################
Michelle Konzack Apt. 917 ICQ #328449886
+49/177/9351947 50, rue de Soultz MSN LinuxMichi
+33/6/61925193 67100 Strasbourg/France IRC #Debian (irc.icq.com)
Re: [OT] Yahoo Deferred
Posted by Joaquin Lopez <mr...@disco-zombie.net>.
Tony Bunce wrote:
> Is anyone else having issues sending mail to Yahoo?
>
> They are returning 421 Message temporarily deferred to every message my
> servers try to send. My server then retries like it should but yahoo
> never accepts the message, even after day of retrying.
Where I work, we had much the same problem. To better organize our mail
system, we put all our mail servers on their own subnet, and began
experiencing this. A small trickle of messages would get through, but
hardly anything at all. Queues would get bigger and bigger. Filling out
the forms on yahoo's website yielded no results.
We ended up keeping one server on it's old IP and routing mail going to
yahoo through that, since stuff coming from the old IP doesn't get
deferred to the same problematic extent. Whitelisted from the days of
yore, or something.
--
Joaquin Lopez
.!. The police were bewildered and said so.
Re: [OT] Yahoo Deferred
Posted by Robert Schetterer <ro...@schetterer.org>.
Rick Macdougall schrieb:
> Tony Bunce wrote:
>> Sorry for the Off Topic thread but I’m at a loss.
>>
>>
>>
>> Is anyone else having issues sending mail to Yahoo?
>>
>>
>>
>> They are returning 421 Message temporarily deferred to every message
>> my servers try to send. My server then retries like it should but
>> yahoo never accepts the message, even after day of retrying. Google
>> turned up several people having the same issue but no one with a
>> solution. My DSN is right, I have SPF records, and sign outgoing
>> messages using DomainKeys.
>>
>>
>>
>> I’ve filled out every form on the yahoo support site without any luck
>> at all. Anyone else seeing this problem or know of a way to get to a
>> real person at yahoo? There are a few reports online that yahoo has a
>> paid support phone number that will fix the problem but no one list a
>> phone number, and as much as I don’t want to pay yahoo just to accept
>> my messages I’m running out of options and the customer complaints
>> are getting more frequent every day.
>>
>
> Same here. I run or look after about 25 mail servers, located all
> around the world, and they all have the same problem.
>
> Strangely enough, the majority of the spam that gets through our filters
> is from Yahoo.
>
> I've pretty much given up on them and I tell clients who inquire or
> complain to ask their yahoo counterparts to use another free mail
> service like hotmail or gmail.
>
> Regards,
>
> Rick
>
Hi all, big speculation
yahoo wants to have domainky/dkim ?
i only have yahoo.de for test and this works like charme
to=<.....@yahoo.de>, relay=g.mx.mail.yahoo.com[209.191.88.239]:25,
delay=6.1, delays=4.5/0.01/0.71/0.9, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (250 ok dirdel)
nor i have reports from users which cannot deliver to yahoo.com servers
and i see no mails waiting in queues waiting to them
maybe your servers got in a yahoo blacklist
--
Best Regards
MfG Robert Schetterer
Germany/Munich/Bavaria
Re: [OT] Yahoo Deferred
Posted by Rick Macdougall <ri...@ummm-beer.com>.
Tony Bunce wrote:
> Sorry for the Off Topic thread but I’m at a loss.
>
>
>
> Is anyone else having issues sending mail to Yahoo?
>
>
>
> They are returning 421 Message temporarily deferred to every message my
> servers try to send. My server then retries like it should but yahoo
> never accepts the message, even after day of retrying. Google turned
> up several people having the same issue but no one with a solution. My
> DSN is right, I have SPF records, and sign outgoing messages using
> DomainKeys.
>
>
>
> I’ve filled out every form on the yahoo support site without any luck at
> all. Anyone else seeing this problem or know of a way to get to a real
> person at yahoo? There are a few reports online that yahoo has a paid
> support phone number that will fix the problem but no one list a phone
> number, and as much as I don’t want to pay yahoo just to accept my
> messages I’m running out of options and the customer complaints are
> getting more frequent every day.
>
Same here. I run or look after about 25 mail servers, located all
around the world, and they all have the same problem.
Strangely enough, the majority of the spam that gets through our filters
is from Yahoo.
I've pretty much given up on them and I tell clients who inquire or
complain to ask their yahoo counterparts to use another free mail
service like hotmail or gmail.
Regards,
Rick
Re: [OT] Yahoo Deferred
Posted by Randy Ramsdell <rr...@livedatagroup.com>.
Matt wrote:
>> Is anyone else having issues sending mail to Yahoo?
>>
>
> Yes. I have heard using Domainkeys or DKIM helps greatly? Is that
> true? We have not implemented it yet but do use SPF records which are
> much easier to implement with Exim or any MTA and do mostly the same
> thing if you ask me.
>
> Matt
>
We use Domainkeys and have used the newer DKIM and spf records and it
does not work with yahoo.
Re: [OT] Yahoo Deferred
Posted by jdow <jd...@earthlink.net>.
Do you get through to Yahoo Groups?
Does the reverse address work correctly?
For grins I'd look at how Earthlink.net handles their smtp sending and
addressing. There might be a useful hint there. They do get through. So
does DSLExtreme.com.
{^_^}
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tony Bunce" <to...@go-concepts.com>
Sent: Monday, 2008, February 25 21:07
> I have heard using Domainkeys or DKIM helps greatly? Is that
true?
So far DomainKeys has not helped from what I can tell.
Yahoo is deferring the message as soon as my server connects, so it never
even gets a chance to see the DomainKeys header.
-Tony B
RE: [OT] Yahoo Deferred
Posted by Tony Bunce <to...@go-concepts.com>.
> I have heard using Domainkeys or DKIM helps greatly? Is that
true?
So far DomainKeys has not helped from what I can tell.
Yahoo is deferring the message as soon as my server connects, so it never even gets a chance to see the DomainKeys header.
-Tony B
Re: [OT] Yahoo Deferred
Posted by Matt <lm...@gmail.com>.
> Is anyone else having issues sending mail to Yahoo?
Yes. I have heard using Domainkeys or DKIM helps greatly? Is that
true? We have not implemented it yet but do use SPF records which are
much easier to implement with Exim or any MTA and do mostly the same
thing if you ask me.
Matt
Re: [OT] Yahoo Deferred
Posted by fchan <fc...@molsci.org>.
Hi,
I had the same problem before and needed to contact yahoo.com
postmaster and they resolved it within one day. Here is the yahoo.com
postmaster URL:
http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/mail/postmaster/
Click on "Contact Customer Care" and select Delivery Issues.
I hope this helps.
Frank
>Sorry for the Off Topic thread but I'm at a loss.
>
>Is anyone else having issues sending mail to Yahoo?
>
>They are returning 421 Message temporarily deferred to every message
>my servers try to send. My server then retries like it should but
>yahoo never accepts the message, even after day of retrying.
>Google turned up several people having the same issue but no one
>with a solution. My DSN is right, I have SPF records, and sign
>outgoing messages using DomainKeys.
>
>I've filled out every form on the yahoo support site without any
>luck at all. Anyone else seeing this problem or know of a way to
>get to a real person at yahoo? There are a few reports online that
>yahoo has a paid support phone number that will fix the problem but
>no one list a phone number, and as much as I don't want to pay yahoo
>just to accept my messages I'm running out of options and the
>customer complaints are getting more frequent every day.
>
>
>Tony Bunce: <ma...@go-concepts.com>tonyb@go-concepts.com
>Sr. Programming Systems Administrator -
><http://www.go-concepts.com/>GO Concepts Inc.
>Phone: (513) 934-8234
>
Re: [OT] Yahoo Deferred
Posted by Dave Koontz <dk...@mbc.edu>.
Ditto, please share any resolve should you get one. This has been an
ongoing problem for us for well over a year now.
Ramprasad wrote:
> Tony Bunce wrote:
>>
>> Sorry for the Off Topic thread but I’m at a loss
>>
>> Is anyone else having issues sending mail to Yahoo?
>>
>> They are returning 421 Message temporarily deferred to every message
>> my servers try to send. My server then retries like it should but
>> yahoo never accepts the message, even after day of retrying. Google
>> turned up several people having the same issue but no one with a
>> solution. My DSN is right, I have SPF records, and sign outgoing
>> messages using DomainKeys.
>
>
> BTW if you get any solution please share with me too :-)
>
>
> Thanks
> Ram
Re: [OT] Yahoo Deferred
Posted by Ramprasad <ra...@netcore.co.in>.
Tony Bunce wrote:
>
> Sorry for the Off Topic thread but I’m at a loss
>
> Is anyone else having issues sending mail to Yahoo?
>
> They are returning 421 Message temporarily deferred to every message
> my servers try to send. My server then retries like it should but
> yahoo never accepts the message, even after day of retrying. Google
> turned up several people having the same issue but no one with a
> solution. My DSN is right, I have SPF records, and sign outgoing
> messages using DomainKeys.
>
> I’ve filled out every form on the yahoo support site without any luck
> at all. Anyone else seeing this problem or know of a way to get to a
> real person at yahoo? There are a few reports online that yahoo has a
> paid support phone number that will fix the problem but no one list a
> phone number, and as much as I don’t want to pay yahoo just to accept
> my messages I’m running out of options and the customer complaints are
> getting more frequent every day.
>
Almost everyone. Tell your customers not to use yahoo ids :-(
I dont know if there is any standard reason , But I think yahoo defers
mails from an IP when there are 'n' message attempts to incorrect ids. n
being too low for any practical server.
Also keep your rates of delivery low .. lest you enrage the yahoo guys.
( Their server , their rules :-( )
On my servers I ratelimit yahoo deliveries and deliver thru a separate
server. Also keep changing the smtp bind address. That helps a bit but
yet mailq is always quiet high. We have already told our servers yahoo
defers our mails so it is not in our control to get done
BTW if you get any solution please share with me too :-)
Thanks
Ram
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RE: [OT] Yahoo Deferred
Posted by Tony Bunce <to...@go-concepts.com>.
They do have a feedback loop now:
http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/mail/postmaster/cfl-form.html?from_url=http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/mail/postmaster/
But it takes several days to receive a reply from that form, which is just a standard reply that tells you to fill out a form and mail it in (postal mail).
Even then the feedback loop is DomainKeys based instead of IP based, so for ISPs you don't know if your customers are sending spam to yahoo.
At least I know that I'm not alone now, thanks for the input. I'll let everyone know if I make any headway.
-Tony
-----Original Message-----
From: Randy Ramsdell [mailto:rramsdell@livedatagroup.com]
Sent: Monday, February 25, 2008 1:51 PM
Cc: users@spamassassin.apache.org
Subject: Re: [OT] Yahoo Deferred
SM wrote:
> At 08:54 25-02-2008, Tony Bunce wrote:
>> Is anyone else having issues sending mail to Yahoo?
>
> No.
>
>> They are returning 421 Message temporarily deferred to every message
>> my servers try to send. My server then retries like it should but
>> yahoo never accepts the message, even after day of retrying.
>> Google turned up several people having the same issue but no one with
>> a solution. My DSN is right, I have SPF records, and sign outgoing
>> messages using DomainKeys.
>
> They are deferring connections from your mail servers due to spam or
> complaints.
>
> Regards,
> -sm
Incorrect! They rate limit everyone. If you're mail isn't being delayed,
then you do not send much mail to them. This has been an issue as long
as I can remember and nothing works to help. Use DKIM/Domain Keys, rotor
e-mail to different ips, fill out ALL there forms and comply with all
their rules. This will not put you on their whitelist and they do not
have a formal feedback loop. I have formally asked that we warn our
users to no use yahoo email addresses for this reason. As a matter of
fact, I have been able to work with every other large e-mail provider/
ISP (AOL/Comcast/Netzero , etc...) and work out e-mail issues with them.
I even have several contact numbers directly the administrators of these
companies. Yahoo simply sucks in this regard and they have not yet
figured out a way to properly set up restrictions so bulk e-mailers may
send e-mail. If you are going to store the largest numbered e-mail
accounts, then you will receive bulk mail.
Randy Ramsdell
Re: [OT] Yahoo Deferred
Posted by Randy Ramsdell <rr...@livedatagroup.com>.
SM wrote:
> At 08:54 25-02-2008, Tony Bunce wrote:
>> Is anyone else having issues sending mail to Yahoo?
>
> No.
>
>> They are returning 421 Message temporarily deferred to every message
>> my servers try to send. My server then retries like it should but
>> yahoo never accepts the message, even after day of retrying.
>> Google turned up several people having the same issue but no one with
>> a solution. My DSN is right, I have SPF records, and sign outgoing
>> messages using DomainKeys.
>
> They are deferring connections from your mail servers due to spam or
> complaints.
>
> Regards,
> -sm
Incorrect! They rate limit everyone. If you're mail isn't being delayed,
then you do not send much mail to them. This has been an issue as long
as I can remember and nothing works to help. Use DKIM/Domain Keys, rotor
e-mail to different ips, fill out ALL there forms and comply with all
their rules. This will not put you on their whitelist and they do not
have a formal feedback loop. I have formally asked that we warn our
users to no use yahoo email addresses for this reason. As a matter of
fact, I have been able to work with every other large e-mail provider/
ISP (AOL/Comcast/Netzero , etc...) and work out e-mail issues with them.
I even have several contact numbers directly the administrators of these
companies. Yahoo simply sucks in this regard and they have not yet
figured out a way to properly set up restrictions so bulk e-mailers may
send e-mail. If you are going to store the largest numbered e-mail
accounts, then you will receive bulk mail.
Randy Ramsdell
Re: [OT] Yahoo Deferred
Posted by SM <sm...@resistor.net>.
At 08:54 25-02-2008, Tony Bunce wrote:
>Is anyone else having issues sending mail to Yahoo?
No.
>They are returning 421 Message temporarily deferred to every message
>my servers try to send. My server then retries like it should but
>yahoo never accepts the message, even after day of
>retrying. Google turned up several people having the same issue
>but no one with a solution. My DSN is right, I have SPF records,
>and sign outgoing messages using DomainKeys.
They are deferring connections from your mail servers due to spam or
complaints.
Regards,
-sm
Re: [OT] Yahoo Deferred
Posted by Mike Kenny <in...@gmail.com>.
We have been experiencing this problem for about a year now. It normally
lasts for about a month and then clears with no explanation and no
corrective action taken on our part. I thought that maybe yahoo were
experiencing load issues and targeted certain TLDs (in our case .co.za) to
alleviate load. This is just a guess as it makes no sense to defer mail that
they believe is spam. Why not just reject it?
Over the last year we have sent numerous queries and complains to yahoo with
never a meaningful response.
Interestingly when this problem first occurred, mid 2007, there were some
other providers exhibiting the same behavior; netzero.com, bellsouth.net and
charter.net among others that I don't recall at present. Thankfully all of
these secondary offenders desisted after the first or second outbreak. But
yahoo, well they are persistent.
At this stage I am not even looking for a solution, just an explanation
would be nice.
mike
P.S. what chance that M$ will improve the situation?
On Mon, Feb 25, 2008 at 6:54 PM, Tony Bunce <to...@go-concepts.com> wrote:
> Sorry for the Off Topic thread but I'm at a loss.
>
>
>
> Is anyone else having issues sending mail to Yahoo?
>
>
>
> They are returning 421 Message temporarily deferred to every message my
> servers try to send. My server then retries like it should but yahoo never
> accepts the message, even after day of retrying. Google turned up several
> people having the same issue but no one with a solution. My DSN is right, I
> have SPF records, and sign outgoing messages using DomainKeys.
>
>
>
> I've filled out every form on the yahoo support site without any luck at
> all. Anyone else seeing this problem or know of a way to get to a real
> person at yahoo? There are a few reports online that yahoo has a paid
> support phone number that will fix the problem but no one list a phone
> number, and as much as I don't want to pay yahoo just to accept my messages
> I'm running out of options and the customer complaints are getting more
> frequent every day.
>
>
> *
> ------------------------------
> *
>
> *Tony Bunce: **tonyb@go-concepts.com***
>
> Sr. Programming Systems Administrator – GO Concepts Inc.<http://www.go-concepts.com/>
>
> *Phone:* (513) 934-8234
>
>
>