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Posted to users@myfaces.apache.org by SiSi'mon <s_...@purpleblade.net> on 2007/05/23 17:43:38 UTC
Why so many problems with MyFaces?
Does anyone know why Myfaces sucks so much? It was supposed to solve some
problems but we have seen nothing but project delays since deciding to use
it.
Is it a poor specification or a poor implementation of a very bad
specification or a very bad implementation of a very bad idea?
Si'mon
--
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Why-so-many-problems-with-MyFaces--tf3804863.html#a10766660
Sent from the MyFaces - Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Re: Why so many problems with MyFaces?
Posted by Grant Smith <wo...@gmail.com>.
Not knowing the nature of your project, or the nature of the delays you've
experienced, this question is impossible to answer. If you could be more
specific ?
On 5/23/07, SiSi'mon <s_...@purpleblade.net> wrote:
>
>
> Does anyone know why Myfaces sucks so much? It was supposed to solve some
> problems but we have seen nothing but project delays since deciding to use
> it.
>
> Is it a poor specification or a poor implementation of a very bad
> specification or a very bad implementation of a very bad idea?
>
> Si'mon
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://www.nabble.com/Why-so-many-problems-with-MyFaces--tf3804863.html#a10766660
> Sent from the MyFaces - Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
>
--
Grant Smith
Re: Why so many problems with MyFaces?
Posted by er...@novartis.com.
Ignore this troll. Emails with his address now go right to my trash
folder.
"Matthias Wessendorf" <ma...@apache.org>
Sent by: mwessendorf@gmail.com
05/23/2007 12:23 PM
Please respond to
"MyFaces Discussion" <us...@myfaces.apache.org>
To
"MyFaces Discussion" <us...@myfaces.apache.org>
cc
Subject
Re: Why so many problems with MyFaces?
use ruby on rails.
that solves all address book problems, you have
:-)
On 5/23/07, SiSi'mon <s_...@purpleblade.net> wrote:
>
> No, the problem is definitely with MyFaces. I have used many other UI
> frameworks in the past with fewer problems. We have gone through most
all
> of the documentation we have with MyFaces.
>
> This technology seems to be lacking. Maybe it will work in a few years.
> The documentation on the apache web site is completely incorrect
regarding
> saveState. I can go on and on.
>
>
>
> mario.buonopane wrote:
> >
> > MyFaces is not a specification is just an implementation. If you
prefer
> > you can choice other implementation. I just want to say that I'm using
> > MyFaces + Tomahawk + Struts Tyles + Shale and I didn't see any delay,
> > just advantages!
> >
> > May be the problem are you?
> >
> > Mario
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: SiSi'mon [mailto:s_simon@purpleblade.net]
> > Sent: 23 maggio 2007 17.44
> > To: users@myfaces.apache.org
> > Subject: Why so many problems with MyFaces?
> >
> >
> > Does anyone know why Myfaces sucks so much? It was supposed to solve
> > some
> > problems but we have seen nothing but project delays since deciding to
> > use
> > it.
> >
> > Is it a poor specification or a poor implementation of a very bad
> > specification or a very bad implementation of a very bad idea?
> >
> > Si'mon
> > --
> > View this message in context:
> >
http://www.nabble.com/Why-so-many-problems-with-MyFaces--tf3804863.html#
> > a10766660
> > Sent from the MyFaces - Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> >
> >
> >
> > This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain
> > privileged, proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you
have
> > received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete
the
> > original. Any other use of the email by you is prohibited.
> >
> >
>
> --
> View this message in context:
http://www.nabble.com/Why-so-many-problems-with-MyFaces--tf3804863.html#a10767462
> Sent from the MyFaces - Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
>
--
Matthias Wessendorf
further stuff:
blog: http://matthiaswessendorf.wordpress.com/
mail: matzew-at-apache-dot-org
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Re: Why so many problems with MyFaces?
Posted by Matthias Wessendorf <ma...@apache.org>.
use ruby on rails.
that solves all address book problems, you have
:-)
On 5/23/07, SiSi'mon <s_...@purpleblade.net> wrote:
>
> No, the problem is definitely with MyFaces. I have used many other UI
> frameworks in the past with fewer problems. We have gone through most all
> of the documentation we have with MyFaces.
>
> This technology seems to be lacking. Maybe it will work in a few years.
> The documentation on the apache web site is completely incorrect regarding
> saveState. I can go on and on.
>
>
>
> mario.buonopane wrote:
> >
> > MyFaces is not a specification is just an implementation. If you prefer
> > you can choice other implementation. I just want to say that I'm using
> > MyFaces + Tomahawk + Struts Tyles + Shale and I didn't see any delay,
> > just advantages!
> >
> > May be the problem are you?
> >
> > Mario
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: SiSi'mon [mailto:s_simon@purpleblade.net]
> > Sent: 23 maggio 2007 17.44
> > To: users@myfaces.apache.org
> > Subject: Why so many problems with MyFaces?
> >
> >
> > Does anyone know why Myfaces sucks so much? It was supposed to solve
> > some
> > problems but we have seen nothing but project delays since deciding to
> > use
> > it.
> >
> > Is it a poor specification or a poor implementation of a very bad
> > specification or a very bad implementation of a very bad idea?
> >
> > Si'mon
> > --
> > View this message in context:
> > http://www.nabble.com/Why-so-many-problems-with-MyFaces--tf3804863.html#
> > a10766660
> > Sent from the MyFaces - Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> >
> >
> >
> > This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain
> > privileged, proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you have
> > received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the
> > original. Any other use of the email by you is prohibited.
> >
> >
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Why-so-many-problems-with-MyFaces--tf3804863.html#a10767462
> Sent from the MyFaces - Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
>
--
Matthias Wessendorf
further stuff:
blog: http://matthiaswessendorf.wordpress.com/
mail: matzew-at-apache-dot-org
RE: Why so many problems with MyFaces?
Posted by SiSi'mon <s_...@purpleblade.net>.
No, the problem is definitely with MyFaces. I have used many other UI
frameworks in the past with fewer problems. We have gone through most all
of the documentation we have with MyFaces.
This technology seems to be lacking. Maybe it will work in a few years.
The documentation on the apache web site is completely incorrect regarding
saveState. I can go on and on.
mario.buonopane wrote:
>
> MyFaces is not a specification is just an implementation. If you prefer
> you can choice other implementation. I just want to say that I'm using
> MyFaces + Tomahawk + Struts Tyles + Shale and I didn't see any delay,
> just advantages!
>
> May be the problem are you?
>
> Mario
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: SiSi'mon [mailto:s_simon@purpleblade.net]
> Sent: 23 maggio 2007 17.44
> To: users@myfaces.apache.org
> Subject: Why so many problems with MyFaces?
>
>
> Does anyone know why Myfaces sucks so much? It was supposed to solve
> some
> problems but we have seen nothing but project delays since deciding to
> use
> it.
>
> Is it a poor specification or a poor implementation of a very bad
> specification or a very bad implementation of a very bad idea?
>
> Si'mon
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://www.nabble.com/Why-so-many-problems-with-MyFaces--tf3804863.html#
> a10766660
> Sent from the MyFaces - Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
>
>
> This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain
> privileged, proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you have
> received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the
> original. Any other use of the email by you is prohibited.
>
>
--
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Why-so-many-problems-with-MyFaces--tf3804863.html#a10767462
Sent from the MyFaces - Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
RE: Why so many problems with MyFaces?
Posted by ma...@accenture.com.
MyFaces is not a specification is just an implementation. If you prefer
you can choice other implementation. I just want to say that I'm using
MyFaces + Tomahawk + Struts Tyles + Shale and I didn't see any delay,
just advantages!
May be the problem are you?
Mario
-----Original Message-----
From: SiSi'mon [mailto:s_simon@purpleblade.net]
Sent: 23 maggio 2007 17.44
To: users@myfaces.apache.org
Subject: Why so many problems with MyFaces?
Does anyone know why Myfaces sucks so much? It was supposed to solve
some
problems but we have seen nothing but project delays since deciding to
use
it.
Is it a poor specification or a poor implementation of a very bad
specification or a very bad implementation of a very bad idea?
Si'mon
--
View this message in context:
http://www.nabble.com/Why-so-many-problems-with-MyFaces--tf3804863.html#
a10766660
Sent from the MyFaces - Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privileged, proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is prohibited.
Re: Why so many problems with MyFaces?
Posted by Werner Punz <we...@gmail.com>.
SiSi'mon schrieb:
> The myfaces forum seems to be one of the more active forums with more
> problems posted here than any other project I have ever seen. The
> documentation on the apache website is wrong concerning how many things
> work.
Ah yes, we need more people to help us out with the documentation...
;-)
Besides that you just volunteered to give a helping hand (the wiki is a
good start)
anything concrete?
> How does crap like this happen?
>
Well it happens, but fortunately there always are people who are willing
to help to correct this, I just saw a hand being raised ;-)
Re: Why so many problems with MyFaces?
Posted by SiSi'mon <s_...@purpleblade.net>.
The myfaces forum seems to be one of the more active forums with more
problems posted here than any other project I have ever seen. The
documentation on the apache website is wrong concerning how many things
work. How does crap like this happen?
SiSi'mon wrote:
>
> Does anyone know why Myfaces sucks so much? It was supposed to solve some
> problems but we have seen nothing but project delays since deciding to use
> it.
>
> Is it a poor specification or a poor implementation of a very bad
> specification or a very bad implementation of a very bad idea?
>
> Si'mon
>
--
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Why-so-many-problems-with-MyFaces--tf3804863.html#a10767474
Sent from the MyFaces - Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Re: Why so many problems with MyFaces?
Posted by Werner Punz <we...@gmail.com>.
SiSi'mon schrieb:
> Does anyone know why Myfaces sucks so much? It was supposed to solve some
> problems but we have seen nothing but project delays since deciding to use
> it.
>
> Is it a poor specification or a poor implementation of a very bad
> specification or a very bad implementation of a very bad idea?
>
Hi, which particular problems did you have?
Werner
RE: Why so many problems with MyFaces?
Posted by "Jesse Alexander (KSFD 121)" <al...@credit-suisse.com>.
Are you trying to start a flame-war?
regards
Alexander
-----Original Message-----
From: SiSi'mon [mailto:s_simon@purpleblade.net]
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2007 5:44 PM
To: users@myfaces.apache.org
Subject: Why so many problems with MyFaces?
Does anyone know why Myfaces sucks so much? It was supposed to solve
some
problems but we have seen nothing but project delays since deciding to
use
it.
Is it a poor specification or a poor implementation of a very bad
specification or a very bad implementation of a very bad idea?
Si'mon
--
View this message in context:
http://www.nabble.com/Why-so-many-problems-with-MyFaces--tf3804863.html#
a10766660
Sent from the MyFaces - Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
AW: Re: Why so many problems with MyFaces?
Posted by Carsten Kaiser <ca...@valtech.de>.
I'm not sure whether it is really a bug... It was just an example to
stress this point. I had a particular problem with this functionality
(since one of these AddRessource implementations attempts to write
directly and does not postpone it to the rendering phase!) when trying to
use a component like it was suggested in the Wiki! But I updated the
according Wiki page with an according hint...
I know. But there are similar problems e.g. when combining several
component frameworks like ajax4j, tomahawk, jenia etc. since there is
always some overlap in functionality... And then the order comes into play
for the JSF standard extension points!
In the end there is the common problem of component architecture: How to
describe the semantics of an interface and the assumptions made about the
environment needed for using it?
Maybe namespaces in combination with type would improve this situation! So
each framework should only handle those information uniquely identified by
namespace and type within their custom implementation of a JSF standard
extension point. E.g. if a variable resolver is supposed to lookup spring
managed beans, it should only consider the namespaces registered with it.
(Maybe there is another variable resolver doing the same job with a
slightly different behaviour used by another framework!) As far as I
remember, Jenia did a good job on this and was quite easy to integrate...
You're right. Keeping such a matrix up to date will be challenging...
CAK
--
Carsten Kaiser
Principal Consultant
mailto:carsten.kaiser@valtech.de
Mobile: +49 (0)170 5270206
Valtech GmbH
Werner-Heisenberg-Straße 2
63263 Neu-Isenburg
Germany
Phone: +49 (0)6102 88468-0
Fax: +49 (0)6102 88468-28
http://www.valtech.de
Geschäftsführer: Ingo Kriescher
Amtsgericht Düsseldorf HRB48672
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: news [mailto:news@sea.gmane.org] Im Auftrag von Werner Punz
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 24. Mai 2007 12:56
An: users@myfaces.apache.org
Betreff: Re: Why so many problems with MyFaces?
Carsten Kaiser schrieb:
> I know this one, but unfortunately it has not the right granularity for
> some problems... I had some matrix in mind, wherein the used common
> extension points and the required configuration scenarios are listed!
> E.g.
> component x requires StreamingAddRessource to be configured, component y
> just works with DefaultAddRessource... etc.
>
Ah ok, that clears things up, anyway, if you ran into one of those
issues this is clearly a bug, the StreamingAddResource is clearly
a MyFaces artefact which should give speed optimizations, if some of the
components do not work with either addresource filter
(DefaultAddRessource is also MyFaces for serving resources)
please comment the bug!
This are by no means standard jsf extension points inf fact jsf does not
specify how resources have to be loaded from the system, those are
things which are very myfaces specific to stream resources out of the
project jars into the browser.
> So, from outside JSF can be considered as some kind of lego brick
> system,
> where you can plug together components as needed, since all have the
> same
> interface structure. But unfortunately this is just half of the truth
> since there are dependencies under the surface established through
> assumptions about common functionality like e.g. the order variables are
> resolved etc.
>
Yes unfortunatly this is true... Maybe compatibility matrix would help
along the lines of which component frameworks work together and which
not, this clearly would make things easier, if some stuff does not work
within a single project (myfaces + streamingaddresource + tomahawk
component then this is clearly a bug not an incomptability)
I am not sure if an extremely fine granularity would help particularily,
because it would become another bugtracker...
Re: Why so many problems with MyFaces?
Posted by Werner Punz <we...@gmail.com>.
Carsten Kaiser schrieb:
> I know this one, but unfortunately it has not the right granularity for
> some problems... I had some matrix in mind, wherein the used common
> extension points and the required configuration scenarios are listed! E.g.
> component x requires StreamingAddRessource to be configured, component y
> just works with DefaultAddRessource... etc.
>
Ah ok, that clears things up, anyway, if you ran into one of those
issues this is clearly a bug, the StreamingAddResource is clearly
a MyFaces artefact which should give speed optimizations, if some of the
components do not work with either addresource filter
(DefaultAddRessource is also MyFaces for serving resources)
please comment the bug!
This are by no means standard jsf extension points inf fact jsf does not
specify how resources have to be loaded from the system, those are
things which are very myfaces specific to stream resources out of the
project jars into the browser.
> So, from outside JSF can be considered as some kind of lego brick system,
> where you can plug together components as needed, since all have the same
> interface structure. But unfortunately this is just half of the truth
> since there are dependencies under the surface established through
> assumptions about common functionality like e.g. the order variables are
> resolved etc.
>
Yes unfortunatly this is true... Maybe compatibility matrix would help
along the lines of which component frameworks work together and which
not, this clearly would make things easier, if some stuff does not work
within a single project (myfaces + streamingaddresource + tomahawk
component then this is clearly a bug not an incomptability)
I am not sure if an extremely fine granularity would help particularily,
because it would become another bugtracker...
Re: Why so many problems with MyFaces?
Posted by Carsten Kaiser <ca...@valtech.de>.
I know this one, but unfortunately it has not the right granularity for
some problems... I had some matrix in mind, wherein the used common
extension points and the required configuration scenarios are listed! E.g.
component x requires StreamingAddRessource to be configured, component y
just works with DefaultAddRessource... etc.
So, from outside JSF can be considered as some kind of lego brick system,
where you can plug together components as needed, since all have the same
interface structure. But unfortunately this is just half of the truth
since there are dependencies under the surface established through
assumptions about common functionality like e.g. the order variables are
resolved etc.
CAK
--
Carsten Kaiser
Principal Consultant
mailto:carsten.kaiser@valtech.de
Mobile: +49 (0)170 5270206
Valtech GmbH
Werner-Heisenberg-Straße 2
63263 Neu-Isenburg
Germany
Phone: +49 (0)6102 88468-0
Fax: +49 (0)6102 88468-28
http://www.valtech.de
Geschäftsführer: Ingo Kriescher
Amtsgericht Düsseldorf HRB48672
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: news [mailto:news@sea.gmane.org] Im Auftrag von Werner Punz
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 24. Mai 2007 11:02
An: users@myfaces.apache.org
Betreff: Spam: Re: Why so many problems with MyFaces?
Actually you raise some valid points here, at least for the myfaces
subprojects we have this matrix:
http://wiki.apache.org/myfaces/CompatibilityMatrix?highlight=%28matrix%29
I personally think such a combined matrix is only maintainable in a wiki
way if you do not have a central testing ground for those things.
Might be a good idea to open a central matrix on one of the wikis
somewhere for intra project dependenies.
Werner
Carsten Kaiser schrieb:
> Let me comment on this from a newbie's point of view:
> We started using JSF with a little project this year and we really went
> through all this pains/problems, which caused the project almost to fail
> at all...
> I think, it is not the common JSF or even the MyFaces documentation
> responsible for that, but the lack of any documentation about the
> interdependencies between all the different modules/implementations! The
> JSF specification defines very flexible extension mechanism, e.g. the
> chain of variable resolvers, and each of the modules uses them in its
> own
> way, which results in situations, where plugging in a new module means
> to
> break other functionality, you have just hardly managed to be working
> correctly. And that does not happen only when using different libraries
> but also within one library itself. So one configuration might be
> suitable
> for the first component, but is definitely not for the next one. This
> problem is hard to solve especially when several people working in
> parallel on a library/module in a not really coordinated way!
>
> So maybe it would be helpful, if beside any xdoc documentation providing
> detailed information about a component there would be some kind of
> central
> dependency matrix allowing each one to figure out which components work
> together safely within a certain configuration scenario, e.g. server
> side
> state handling etc.! Unfortunately, I guess, such a matrix cannot be
> maintained by any interested user like the Wiki, since this requires a
> lot
> of inside know how about the whole implementation.
>
> BTW: Congratulations! I think, everyone of you does a great job within
> this project!
>
> Regards,
> CAK
>
>
>
Re: Why so many problems with MyFaces?
Posted by Werner Punz <we...@gmail.com>.
Actually you raise some valid points here, at least for the myfaces
subprojects we have this matrix:
http://wiki.apache.org/myfaces/CompatibilityMatrix?highlight=%28matrix%29
I personally think such a combined matrix is only maintainable in a wiki
way if you do not have a central testing ground for those things.
Might be a good idea to open a central matrix on one of the wikis
somewhere for intra project dependenies.
Werner
Carsten Kaiser schrieb:
> Let me comment on this from a newbie's point of view:
> We started using JSF with a little project this year and we really went
> through all this pains/problems, which caused the project almost to fail
> at all...
> I think, it is not the common JSF or even the MyFaces documentation
> responsible for that, but the lack of any documentation about the
> interdependencies between all the different modules/implementations! The
> JSF specification defines very flexible extension mechanism, e.g. the
> chain of variable resolvers, and each of the modules uses them in its own
> way, which results in situations, where plugging in a new module means to
> break other functionality, you have just hardly managed to be working
> correctly. And that does not happen only when using different libraries
> but also within one library itself. So one configuration might be suitable
> for the first component, but is definitely not for the next one. This
> problem is hard to solve especially when several people working in
> parallel on a library/module in a not really coordinated way!
>
> So maybe it would be helpful, if beside any xdoc documentation providing
> detailed information about a component there would be some kind of central
> dependency matrix allowing each one to figure out which components work
> together safely within a certain configuration scenario, e.g. server side
> state handling etc.! Unfortunately, I guess, such a matrix cannot be
> maintained by any interested user like the Wiki, since this requires a lot
> of inside know how about the whole implementation.
>
> BTW: Congratulations! I think, everyone of you does a great job within
> this project!
>
> Regards,
> CAK
>
>
>
Re: Why so many problems with MyFaces?
Posted by Carsten Kaiser <ca...@valtech.de>.
Let me comment on this from a newbie's point of view:
We started using JSF with a little project this year and we really went
through all this pains/problems, which caused the project almost to fail
at all...
I think, it is not the common JSF or even the MyFaces documentation
responsible for that, but the lack of any documentation about the
interdependencies between all the different modules/implementations! The
JSF specification defines very flexible extension mechanism, e.g. the
chain of variable resolvers, and each of the modules uses them in its own
way, which results in situations, where plugging in a new module means to
break other functionality, you have just hardly managed to be working
correctly. And that does not happen only when using different libraries
but also within one library itself. So one configuration might be suitable
for the first component, but is definitely not for the next one. This
problem is hard to solve especially when several people working in
parallel on a library/module in a not really coordinated way!
So maybe it would be helpful, if beside any xdoc documentation providing
detailed information about a component there would be some kind of central
dependency matrix allowing each one to figure out which components work
together safely within a certain configuration scenario, e.g. server side
state handling etc.! Unfortunately, I guess, such a matrix cannot be
maintained by any interested user like the Wiki, since this requires a lot
of inside know how about the whole implementation.
BTW: Congratulations! I think, everyone of you does a great job within
this project!
Regards,
CAK
--
Carsten Kaiser
Principal Consultant
mailto:carsten.kaiser@valtech.de
Mobile: +49 (0)170 5270206
Valtech GmbH
Werner-Heisenberg-Straße 2
63263 Neu-Isenburg
Germany
Phone: +49 (0)6102 88468-0
Fax: +49 (0)6102 88468-28
http://www.valtech.de
Geschäftsführer: Ingo Kriescher
Amtsgericht Düsseldorf HRB48672
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: news [mailto:news@sea.gmane.org] Im Auftrag von Werner Punz
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 24. Mai 2007 09:51
An: users@myfaces.apache.org
Betreff: Spam: Re: Why so many problems with MyFaces?
Simon Lessard schrieb:
> Hello,
>
> I think what Andrew meant is that since MyFaces is not backed by a
> corporation, people here are not paid to work on this project. Therefore
> they spend there own free time for the community's gain without any
> personal gain. Therefore, it's not very diplomatic to come on the list
> and speak to us like if we were some evil telemarketing people that sold
> you something for a high price and that does not seem to answer your
> need or that you do not understand properly, not that you should be
> impolite with telemarketing worker either anyway.
>
> As for documentation, I suggest you take a look at Java Server Faces
> (JSF) specification as it's what MyFaces implements.
>
I think the original poster is right, there still is a lack of
documentation (you can never have enough).
The main problem really is that there are not really too many people
here who can spend a full workweek on everything (is there even one)
while all people or most of them are employed myfaces is sort of a
sideproject for most people, many of us are bound by real world jobs
often not even having anything to do with JSF for long periods of time.
So it ends up with following problem, what do you do in the small time
you are able to dedicate to this project, write code or write
documentation. Hint we are all coders, so documentation always is a
second must (which often then lacks or is behind the things)
The sandbox is the classical example, around 60 % of the components
there are not yet promoted due to one thing, lack of documentation.
The Wiki is a classical helper to this situation because it has more up
to date information, and people also like to use it more than to send
xdoc patches...
I wonder if the xdoc format really is the one and only solution to the
entire documentation problem. Unfortunately we are not the only ones
with this problem, almost all oss projects which are not corporate
funded to some degree lack this problem and it is a problem with most
OSS projects! But the situation is not that bad, the original xdocs are
ok, the wiki has become a very good source regarding myfaces over the
last two years since it was seriously introduced and then there is
jsfcentral with a load of general information on all topics jsf.
The main documentation problem I see currently regarding JSF is on Suns
side, funnily. They really have to add some introductorial pages, most
of their end user documentation centers around their netbeans tools,
unfortunately, which hides a lot of under the hood stuff which you run
into once you move away from the toolchain. They should open a beginners
section like they did with java in the early days (one part of javas
success), they would have the manpower and the funds to do so.
Sun succeeds however in some areas, Jacob Hookoms docs regarding
Facelets and the links to the articles are the way things should be
generally for jsf on Suns site.
While they do an excellent work with their toolchain, and the jsf ri
generally, they have a huge gap in the docs area, I personally think it
is way worse than what the privately initated docs portal of Kito
(JSFCentral) and some wikis and oss projects which are basically non
funded combined provide.
Re: Why so many problems with MyFaces?
Posted by Werner Punz <we...@gmail.com>.
Simon Lessard schrieb:
> Hello,
>
> I think what Andrew meant is that since MyFaces is not backed by a
> corporation, people here are not paid to work on this project. Therefore
> they spend there own free time for the community's gain without any
> personal gain. Therefore, it's not very diplomatic to come on the list
> and speak to us like if we were some evil telemarketing people that sold
> you something for a high price and that does not seem to answer your
> need or that you do not understand properly, not that you should be
> impolite with telemarketing worker either anyway.
>
> As for documentation, I suggest you take a look at Java Server Faces
> (JSF) specification as it's what MyFaces implements.
>
I think the original poster is right, there still is a lack of
documentation (you can never have enough).
The main problem really is that there are not really too many people
here who can spend a full workweek on everything (is there even one)
while all people or most of them are employed myfaces is sort of a
sideproject for most people, many of us are bound by real world jobs
often not even having anything to do with JSF for long periods of time.
So it ends up with following problem, what do you do in the small time
you are able to dedicate to this project, write code or write
documentation. Hint we are all coders, so documentation always is a
second must (which often then lacks or is behind the things)
The sandbox is the classical example, around 60 % of the components
there are not yet promoted due to one thing, lack of documentation.
The Wiki is a classical helper to this situation because it has more up
to date information, and people also like to use it more than to send
xdoc patches...
I wonder if the xdoc format really is the one and only solution to the
entire documentation problem. Unfortunately we are not the only ones
with this problem, almost all oss projects which are not corporate
funded to some degree lack this problem and it is a problem with most
OSS projects! But the situation is not that bad, the original xdocs are
ok, the wiki has become a very good source regarding myfaces over the
last two years since it was seriously introduced and then there is
jsfcentral with a load of general information on all topics jsf.
The main documentation problem I see currently regarding JSF is on Suns
side, funnily. They really have to add some introductorial pages, most
of their end user documentation centers around their netbeans tools,
unfortunately, which hides a lot of under the hood stuff which you run
into once you move away from the toolchain. They should open a beginners
section like they did with java in the early days (one part of javas
success), they would have the manpower and the funds to do so.
Sun succeeds however in some areas, Jacob Hookoms docs regarding
Facelets and the links to the articles are the way things should be
generally for jsf on Suns site.
While they do an excellent work with their toolchain, and the jsf ri
generally, they have a huge gap in the docs area, I personally think it
is way worse than what the privately initated docs portal of Kito
(JSFCentral) and some wikis and oss projects which are basically non
funded combined provide.
Re: Why so many problems with MyFaces?
Posted by Simon Lessard <si...@gmail.com>.
Hello,
I think what Andrew meant is that since MyFaces is not backed by a
corporation, people here are not paid to work on this project. Therefore
they spend there own free time for the community's gain without any personal
gain. Therefore, it's not very diplomatic to come on the list and speak to
us like if we were some evil telemarketing people that sold you something
for a high price and that does not seem to answer your need or that you do
not understand properly, not that you should be impolite with telemarketing
worker either anyway.
As for documentation, I suggest you take a look at Java Server Faces (JSF)
specification as it's what MyFaces implements.
Regards,
~ Simon
On 5/23/07, SiSi'mon <s_...@purpleblade.net> wrote:
>
>
> so you are basically saying that open source is inferrior because it is
> not
> backed by corporations? I have been misled. I thought open source had
> some
> kind of magic and was supposed to be better. oh well.
>
>
>
> Andrew Robinson-5 wrote:
> >
> > That is probably not the best way to get an answer (insulting open
> > source developers). If you don't like the quality of the code (1)
> > become a contributor and help them fix the parts that you think "suck"
> > or (2) don't use it or (3) report bugs in the bug tracker and work
> > with this mailing list to see if problems are indeed bugs and then
> > wait for fixes.
> >
> > MyFaces is not backed by any corporations to my knowledge, it is made
> > up of people devoting their free time to write something they care
> > about.
> >
> > It would be wise for you to ask questions regarding specific
> > problems/issues and using the bug tracker to help the team work with
> > specific bugs.
> >
> > On 5/23/07, SiSi'mon <s_...@purpleblade.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> Does anyone know why Myfaces sucks so much? It was supposed to solve
> >> some
> >> problems but we have seen nothing but project delays since deciding to
> >> use
> >> it.
> >>
> >> Is it a poor specification or a poor implementation of a very bad
> >> specification or a very bad implementation of a very bad idea?
> >>
> >> Si'mon
> >> --
> >> View this message in context:
> >>
> http://www.nabble.com/Why-so-many-problems-with-MyFaces--tf3804863.html#a10766660
> >> Sent from the MyFaces - Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://www.nabble.com/Why-so-many-problems-with-MyFaces--tf3804863.html#a10767472
> Sent from the MyFaces - Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
>
Re: Why so many problems with MyFaces?
Posted by SiSi'mon <s_...@purpleblade.net>.
so you are basically saying that open source is inferrior because it is not
backed by corporations? I have been misled. I thought open source had some
kind of magic and was supposed to be better. oh well.
Andrew Robinson-5 wrote:
>
> That is probably not the best way to get an answer (insulting open
> source developers). If you don't like the quality of the code (1)
> become a contributor and help them fix the parts that you think "suck"
> or (2) don't use it or (3) report bugs in the bug tracker and work
> with this mailing list to see if problems are indeed bugs and then
> wait for fixes.
>
> MyFaces is not backed by any corporations to my knowledge, it is made
> up of people devoting their free time to write something they care
> about.
>
> It would be wise for you to ask questions regarding specific
> problems/issues and using the bug tracker to help the team work with
> specific bugs.
>
> On 5/23/07, SiSi'mon <s_...@purpleblade.net> wrote:
>>
>> Does anyone know why Myfaces sucks so much? It was supposed to solve
>> some
>> problems but we have seen nothing but project delays since deciding to
>> use
>> it.
>>
>> Is it a poor specification or a poor implementation of a very bad
>> specification or a very bad implementation of a very bad idea?
>>
>> Si'mon
>> --
>> View this message in context:
>> http://www.nabble.com/Why-so-many-problems-with-MyFaces--tf3804863.html#a10766660
>> Sent from the MyFaces - Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>
>>
>
>
--
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Why-so-many-problems-with-MyFaces--tf3804863.html#a10767472
Sent from the MyFaces - Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Re: Why so many problems with MyFaces?
Posted by Matthias Wessendorf <ma...@apache.org>.
On 5/23/07, Cagatay Civici <ca...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > That is probably not the best way to get an answer (insulting open
> > source developers). If you don't like the quality of the code (1)
> > become a contributor and help them fix the parts that you think "suck"
> > or (2) don't use it or (3) report bugs in the bug tracker and work
> > with this mailing list to see if problems are indeed bugs and then
> > wait for fixes.
> >
> > MyFaces is not backed by any corporations to my knowledge, it is made
> > up of people devoting their free time to write something they care
> > about.
> >
> > It would be wise for you to ask questions regarding specific
> > problems/issues and using the bug tracker to help the team work with
> > specific bugs.
>
> That says all.
+1
> Cagatay
>
--
Matthias Wessendorf
further stuff:
blog: http://matthiaswessendorf.wordpress.com/
mail: matzew-at-apache-dot-org
Re: Why so many problems with MyFaces?
Posted by Cagatay Civici <ca...@gmail.com>.
>
> That is probably not the best way to get an answer (insulting open
> source developers). If you don't like the quality of the code (1)
> become a contributor and help them fix the parts that you think "suck"
> or (2) don't use it or (3) report bugs in the bug tracker and work
> with this mailing list to see if problems are indeed bugs and then
> wait for fixes.
>
> MyFaces is not backed by any corporations to my knowledge, it is made
> up of people devoting their free time to write something they care
> about.
>
> It would be wise for you to ask questions regarding specific
> problems/issues and using the bug tracker to help the team work with
> specific bugs.
That says all.
Cagatay
Re: Why so many problems with MyFaces?
Posted by Andrew Robinson <an...@gmail.com>.
That is probably not the best way to get an answer (insulting open
source developers). If you don't like the quality of the code (1)
become a contributor and help them fix the parts that you think "suck"
or (2) don't use it or (3) report bugs in the bug tracker and work
with this mailing list to see if problems are indeed bugs and then
wait for fixes.
MyFaces is not backed by any corporations to my knowledge, it is made
up of people devoting their free time to write something they care
about.
It would be wise for you to ask questions regarding specific
problems/issues and using the bug tracker to help the team work with
specific bugs.
On 5/23/07, SiSi'mon <s_...@purpleblade.net> wrote:
>
> Does anyone know why Myfaces sucks so much? It was supposed to solve some
> problems but we have seen nothing but project delays since deciding to use
> it.
>
> Is it a poor specification or a poor implementation of a very bad
> specification or a very bad implementation of a very bad idea?
>
> Si'mon
> --
> View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Why-so-many-problems-with-MyFaces--tf3804863.html#a10766660
> Sent from the MyFaces - Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
>