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Posted to general@incubator.apache.org by robert burrell donkin <ro...@gmail.com> on 2007/01/02 14:54:01 UTC
graduation documentation [WAS Re: [RESULT] Re: [VOTE] Graduate Synapse]
On 1/2/07, Paul Fremantle <pz...@gmail.com> wrote:
<snip>
> With that I would like to offer my great thanks to the Incubator PMC
> for their hard work during the incubation of Synapse. We did three
> releases, which all benefitted from the usual thorough examination of
> the Incubator PMC (especially a few individuals who are well known for
> their thorough reviews). We have learnt a lot throughout the
> incubation period and thank you for your efforts.
and thanks to the synapse community for all their hard work
if the mentors could find the time, feedback on
http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation would be appreciated. it
needs some more work but it'd be useful to know how close it is and
what improvements are required.
- robert
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Re: graduation documentation [WAS Re: [RESULT] Re: [VOTE] Graduate Synapse]
Posted by robert burrell donkin <ro...@gmail.com>.
On 1/7/07, Jean T. Anderson <jt...@bristowhill.com> wrote:
> robert burrell donkin wrote:
> > On 1/4/07, Jean T. Anderson <jt...@bristowhill.com> wrote:
> >> robert burrell donkin wrote:
> ...
> >> If you think this would be helpful, I'll start putting some linkages in
> >> place. :-) I do think it's important that the guide link to the policy.
> >
> > sounds good
> >
> > please jump in
>
> ok, I started adding in some changes.
great
i've added a check list section for post graduation infrastructure. if
anyone spots anything that's been missed please jump in or patch.
> btw, the sample resolutions pointed to by
> http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation#resolution aren't quite
> correct based on feedback for OFBiz and Cayenne in the December
> archives. The Harmony resolution is good, so I added a link to that.
> Once the board minutes are publicly available with the OFBiz and Cayenne
> resolutions I'll try to remember to add links to those as well.
+1
- robert
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Re: graduation documentation [WAS Re: [RESULT] Re: [VOTE] Graduate
Synapse]
Posted by "Jean T. Anderson" <jt...@bristowhill.com>.
robert burrell donkin wrote:
> On 1/4/07, Jean T. Anderson <jt...@bristowhill.com> wrote:
>> robert burrell donkin wrote:
...
>> If you think this would be helpful, I'll start putting some linkages in
>> place. :-) I do think it's important that the guide link to the policy.
>
> sounds good
>
> please jump in
ok, I started adding in some changes.
btw, the sample resolutions pointed to by
http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation#resolution aren't quite
correct based on feedback for OFBiz and Cayenne in the December
archives. The Harmony resolution is good, so I added a link to that.
Once the board minutes are publicly available with the OFBiz and Cayenne
resolutions I'll try to remember to add links to those as well.
-jean
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Re: graduation documentation [WAS Re: [RESULT] Re: [VOTE] Graduate Synapse]
Posted by robert burrell donkin <ro...@gmail.com>.
On 1/4/07, Jean T. Anderson <jt...@bristowhill.com> wrote:
> robert burrell donkin wrote:
> ...
> > if the mentors could find the time, feedback on
> > http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation would be appreciated. it
> > needs some more work but it'd be useful to know how close it is and
> > what improvements are required.
>
> Somewhere it would help to link it to
> http://incubator.apache.org/incubation/Incubation_Policy.html#Exiting+the+Incubator
>
>
> Otherwise, guides/graduation and Incubation_Policy.html could get out of
> sync, which would become truly confusing. Also, I wonder if all
> non-native English speakers on this mail list understand what is meant
> by "normative" in this introductory paragraph:
>
> "This document is descriptive, not normative. It discusses and describes
> the process of graduate and offers some views about how to approach it."
>
> Perhaps maybe something like this might help (and also work in a link to
> the policy doc)?
>
> "This document helps podlings understand the process of graduation and
> offers some views about how to approach it. It also links to (and
> sometimes comments on) the Incubator exit policies [link to
> http://incubator.apache.org/incubation/Incubation_Policy.html#Exiting+the+Incubator]."
>
> If you think this would be helpful, I'll start putting some linkages in
> place. :-) I do think it's important that the guide link to the policy.
sounds good
please jump in
- robert
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Re: graduation documentation [WAS Re: [RESULT] Re: [VOTE] Graduate
Synapse]
Posted by "Jean T. Anderson" <jt...@bristowhill.com>.
robert burrell donkin wrote:
...
> if the mentors could find the time, feedback on
> http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation would be appreciated. it
> needs some more work but it'd be useful to know how close it is and
> what improvements are required.
Somewhere it would help to link it to
http://incubator.apache.org/incubation/Incubation_Policy.html#Exiting+the+Incubator
Otherwise, guides/graduation and Incubation_Policy.html could get out of
sync, which would become truly confusing. Also, I wonder if all
non-native English speakers on this mail list understand what is meant
by "normative" in this introductory paragraph:
"This document is descriptive, not normative. It discusses and describes
the process of graduate and offers some views about how to approach it."
Perhaps maybe something like this might help (and also work in a link to
the policy doc)?
"This document helps podlings understand the process of graduation and
offers some views about how to approach it. It also links to (and
sometimes comments on) the Incubator exit policies [link to
http://incubator.apache.org/incubation/Incubation_Policy.html#Exiting+the+Incubator]."
If you think this would be helpful, I'll start putting some linkages in
place. :-) I do think it's important that the guide link to the policy.
-jean
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Re: graduation documentation [WAS Re: [RESULT] Re: [VOTE] Graduate Synapse]
Posted by robert burrell donkin <ro...@gmail.com>.
On 1/3/07, Paul Fremantle <pz...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Robert
>
> Some initial comments.
grand :-)
> Firstly, the documentation does not mention any vote by the project
> committers. This seems to be the very first step is to get the +1 of
> the podling community, especially the mentors.
>
> I thought it was a wise idea to copy both the IPMC and the sponsoring
> PMC on this vote thread to ensure there were no surprises.
+1
> I also think that the guide could add some advice on moving the
> project and documentation. For example, I have just done an svn move
> of the whole svn tree, and I've updated the status page. However, I
> still have some further actions to do:
>
> 1) update the master incubator pages to indicate synapse has graduated
> 2) move the wiki pages from the incubator wiki to the ws wiki.
> 3) create a new webpage to replace the old synapse one saying we have moved.
+1
> Finally, there is the knotty problem of PR. We are very proud to now
> be an Apache project and it would be great to let everyone know. The
> guide hasn't any advice on this.
sadly, there is very little advice anywhere on this subject :-/
i've created some content covering these issues but i'm not
particularly happy with it ATM so i want to take another look at it
after a chance to sleep on it.
- robert
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Re: graduation documentation [WAS Re: [RESULT] Re: [VOTE] Graduate Synapse]
Posted by robert burrell donkin <ro...@gmail.com>.
On 1/4/07, Henri Yandell <fl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 1/3/07, Paul Fremantle <pz...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Finally, there is the knotty problem of PR. We are very proud to now
> > be an Apache project and it would be great to let everyone know. The
> > guide hasn't any advice on this.
>
> Talking out of my arse....
>
> * Grass roots mentioning in blogs.
>
> * Sending to announce lists (announce@apache for example.. or is it
> announcements. One of the two). This will have a knock on effect with
> blogs (cafeaulait for example).
>
> * Getting it on the ASF front page news.
>
> * Timing a release to happen just after the graduation is complete is
> probably the best - saying "hey look we're a TLP" seems a bit weak
> news wise, especially if it's before the bits are moved to TLP. If
> you're saying "Our first release since graduating to become a full
> Apache project", then it seems like bigger news and the call to action
> is clear - come get the new release. Maybe that's my problem with the
> graduation bit, the call to action is "come join in!", which seems
> much less compelling than "come use the new software".
>
> * Articles etc. I wouldn't be surprised if online/offline magazines
> are much more interested in an article once an Incubator podling
> becomes a TLP. One unique article (I suspect) would be a "Life in the
> Apache Incubator"; a viewpoint from a podling not the project itself.
> Might only be of value to the feather blog - plus
>
> * Podcasting with Rich and David. Again - best time for this would be
> just after the graduation is complete and maybe a release has been
> made. The graudation is a period of change, so you don't want to be
> sucking lots of people in right then - rather you want to get the bits
> taken care of and then suck people in.
>
> * ApacheCon talk. Introducing your newly graduated project seems like
> a very good talk at ApacheCon if it's not been talked about before. A
> lot of them have though, so this may be a null-op. Java User Group
> talks etc.
all good ideas :-)
but IMO this really belongs in the infamously non-existant apache PR
website, not in a graduation guide. the graduation guide should link
and comment.
> * Have a whip-round for some advertising money. Either print a one
> page spread in the New York Times or send the BileBlog a cheque and a
> request to be biled. :)
:-)
- robert
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Re: Fwd: graduation documentation [WAS Re: [RESULT] Re: [VOTE] Graduate
Synapse]
Posted by "Asankha C. Perera" <as...@wso2.com>.
Hi all
Please consider that the Synapse code is frozen to perform the 0.91
release, and the necessary actions are already underway to do this on
the HEAD (e.g. POM versions are updated to 0.91).
asankha
Asankha C. Perera wrote:
> Paul
>
> Sure, I will work to get an RC out for this
>
> asankha
>
> Paul Fremantle wrote:
>> This is a great message on what PR we might do. It makes it seem
>> worthwhile doing a release just to capture some interest! How about we
>> get our website up, add in the RM fixes from Tijs, and cut 0.91
>> straight away?
>>
>> Paul
>
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Re: Fwd: graduation documentation [WAS Re: [RESULT] Re: [VOTE] Graduate
Synapse]
Posted by "Asankha C. Perera" <as...@wso2.com>.
Paul
Sure, I will work to get an RC out for this
asankha
Paul Fremantle wrote:
> This is a great message on what PR we might do. It makes it seem
> worthwhile doing a release just to capture some interest! How about we
> get our website up, add in the RM fixes from Tijs, and cut 0.91
> straight away?
>
> Paul
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Henri Yandell <fl...@gmail.com>
> Date: Jan 4, 2007 1:02 AM
> Subject: Re: graduation documentation [WAS Re: [RESULT] Re: [VOTE]
> Graduate Synapse]
> To: general@incubator.apache.org
>
>
> On 1/3/07, Paul Fremantle <pz...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Finally, there is the knotty problem of PR. We are very proud to now
>> be an Apache project and it would be great to let everyone know. The
>> guide hasn't any advice on this.
>
> Talking out of my arse....
>
> * Grass roots mentioning in blogs.
>
> * Sending to announce lists (announce@apache for example.. or is it
> announcements. One of the two). This will have a knock on effect with
> blogs (cafeaulait for example).
>
> * Getting it on the ASF front page news.
>
> * Timing a release to happen just after the graduation is complete is
> probably the best - saying "hey look we're a TLP" seems a bit weak
> news wise, especially if it's before the bits are moved to TLP. If
> you're saying "Our first release since graduating to become a full
> Apache project", then it seems like bigger news and the call to action
> is clear - come get the new release. Maybe that's my problem with the
> graduation bit, the call to action is "come join in!", which seems
> much less compelling than "come use the new software".
>
> * Articles etc. I wouldn't be surprised if online/offline magazines
> are much more interested in an article once an Incubator podling
> becomes a TLP. One unique article (I suspect) would be a "Life in the
> Apache Incubator"; a viewpoint from a podling not the project itself.
> Might only be of value to the feather blog - plus
>
> * Podcasting with Rich and David. Again - best time for this would be
> just after the graduation is complete and maybe a release has been
> made. The graudation is a period of change, so you don't want to be
> sucking lots of people in right then - rather you want to get the bits
> taken care of and then suck people in.
>
> * ApacheCon talk. Introducing your newly graduated project seems like
> a very good talk at ApacheCon if it's not been talked about before. A
> lot of them have though, so this may be a null-op. Java User Group
> talks etc.
>
> * Have a whip-round for some advertising money. Either print a one
> page spread in the New York Times or send the BileBlog a cheque and a
> request to be biled. :)
>
> Hen
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>
>
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Fwd: graduation documentation [WAS Re: [RESULT] Re: [VOTE] Graduate Synapse]
Posted by Paul Fremantle <pz...@gmail.com>.
This is a great message on what PR we might do. It makes it seem
worthwhile doing a release just to capture some interest! How about we
get our website up, add in the RM fixes from Tijs, and cut 0.91
straight away?
Paul
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Henri Yandell <fl...@gmail.com>
Date: Jan 4, 2007 1:02 AM
Subject: Re: graduation documentation [WAS Re: [RESULT] Re: [VOTE]
Graduate Synapse]
To: general@incubator.apache.org
On 1/3/07, Paul Fremantle <pz...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Finally, there is the knotty problem of PR. We are very proud to now
> be an Apache project and it would be great to let everyone know. The
> guide hasn't any advice on this.
Talking out of my arse....
* Grass roots mentioning in blogs.
* Sending to announce lists (announce@apache for example.. or is it
announcements. One of the two). This will have a knock on effect with
blogs (cafeaulait for example).
* Getting it on the ASF front page news.
* Timing a release to happen just after the graduation is complete is
probably the best - saying "hey look we're a TLP" seems a bit weak
news wise, especially if it's before the bits are moved to TLP. If
you're saying "Our first release since graduating to become a full
Apache project", then it seems like bigger news and the call to action
is clear - come get the new release. Maybe that's my problem with the
graduation bit, the call to action is "come join in!", which seems
much less compelling than "come use the new software".
* Articles etc. I wouldn't be surprised if online/offline magazines
are much more interested in an article once an Incubator podling
becomes a TLP. One unique article (I suspect) would be a "Life in the
Apache Incubator"; a viewpoint from a podling not the project itself.
Might only be of value to the feather blog - plus
* Podcasting with Rich and David. Again - best time for this would be
just after the graduation is complete and maybe a release has been
made. The graudation is a period of change, so you don't want to be
sucking lots of people in right then - rather you want to get the bits
taken care of and then suck people in.
* ApacheCon talk. Introducing your newly graduated project seems like
a very good talk at ApacheCon if it's not been talked about before. A
lot of them have though, so this may be a null-op. Java User Group
talks etc.
* Have a whip-round for some advertising money. Either print a one
page spread in the New York Times or send the BileBlog a cheque and a
request to be biled. :)
Hen
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--
Paul Fremantle
VP/Technology, WSO2 and OASIS WS-RX TC Co-chair
http://bloglines.com/blog/paulfremantle
paul@wso2.com
"Oxygenating the Web Service Platform", www.wso2.com
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Re: graduation documentation [WAS Re: [RESULT] Re: [VOTE] Graduate Synapse]
Posted by Henri Yandell <fl...@gmail.com>.
On 1/3/07, Paul Fremantle <pz...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Finally, there is the knotty problem of PR. We are very proud to now
> be an Apache project and it would be great to let everyone know. The
> guide hasn't any advice on this.
Talking out of my arse....
* Grass roots mentioning in blogs.
* Sending to announce lists (announce@apache for example.. or is it
announcements. One of the two). This will have a knock on effect with
blogs (cafeaulait for example).
* Getting it on the ASF front page news.
* Timing a release to happen just after the graduation is complete is
probably the best - saying "hey look we're a TLP" seems a bit weak
news wise, especially if it's before the bits are moved to TLP. If
you're saying "Our first release since graduating to become a full
Apache project", then it seems like bigger news and the call to action
is clear - come get the new release. Maybe that's my problem with the
graduation bit, the call to action is "come join in!", which seems
much less compelling than "come use the new software".
* Articles etc. I wouldn't be surprised if online/offline magazines
are much more interested in an article once an Incubator podling
becomes a TLP. One unique article (I suspect) would be a "Life in the
Apache Incubator"; a viewpoint from a podling not the project itself.
Might only be of value to the feather blog - plus
* Podcasting with Rich and David. Again - best time for this would be
just after the graduation is complete and maybe a release has been
made. The graudation is a period of change, so you don't want to be
sucking lots of people in right then - rather you want to get the bits
taken care of and then suck people in.
* ApacheCon talk. Introducing your newly graduated project seems like
a very good talk at ApacheCon if it's not been talked about before. A
lot of them have though, so this may be a null-op. Java User Group
talks etc.
* Have a whip-round for some advertising money. Either print a one
page spread in the New York Times or send the BileBlog a cheque and a
request to be biled. :)
Hen
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Re: graduation documentation [WAS Re: [RESULT] Re: [VOTE] Graduate Synapse]
Posted by Paul Fremantle <pz...@gmail.com>.
Robert
Some initial comments.
Firstly, the documentation does not mention any vote by the project
committers. This seems to be the very first step is to get the +1 of
the podling community, especially the mentors.
I thought it was a wise idea to copy both the IPMC and the sponsoring
PMC on this vote thread to ensure there were no surprises.
I also think that the guide could add some advice on moving the
project and documentation. For example, I have just done an svn move
of the whole svn tree, and I've updated the status page. However, I
still have some further actions to do:
1) update the master incubator pages to indicate synapse has graduated
2) move the wiki pages from the incubator wiki to the ws wiki.
3) create a new webpage to replace the old synapse one saying we have moved.
Finally, there is the knotty problem of PR. We are very proud to now
be an Apache project and it would be great to let everyone know. The
guide hasn't any advice on this.
Paul
On 1/2/07, robert burrell donkin <ro...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 1/2/07, Paul Fremantle <pz...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
> > With that I would like to offer my great thanks to the Incubator PMC
> > for their hard work during the incubation of Synapse. We did three
> > releases, which all benefitted from the usual thorough examination of
> > the Incubator PMC (especially a few individuals who are well known for
> > their thorough reviews). We have learnt a lot throughout the
> > incubation period and thank you for your efforts.
>
> and thanks to the synapse community for all their hard work
>
> if the mentors could find the time, feedback on
> http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation would be appreciated. it
> needs some more work but it'd be useful to know how close it is and
> what improvements are required.
>
> - robert
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>
--
Paul Fremantle
VP/Technology, WSO2 and OASIS WS-RX TC Co-chair
http://bloglines.com/blog/paulfremantle
paul@wso2.com
"Oxygenating the Web Service Platform", www.wso2.com
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