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Posted to dev@subversion.apache.org by "C. Scott Ananian" <ca...@lesser-magoo.lcs.mit.edu> on 2001/08/22 16:42:12 UTC
working.
for what it's worth, i'm working on a getdate rewrite with all of the many
suggestions that have been offered on the list. It uses the existing libc
strptime parser extensively; if needed I can (eventually) rewrite strptime
from scratch, too (but I'd prefer not too!). ISO8601 date parsing is
almost done.
Does subversion have a localization framework yet to deal with (for
example) translations of 'yesterday' and friends? Have we decided on the
'catgets' (X/Open standard) vs 'gettext' (Uniforums standard) question?
--s
Chechnya quiche strategic Uzi Semtex pending WTO for Dummies SEAL Team 6
Serbian shotgun Waco, Texas genetic Leitrim bomb DC Cocaine Sudan
( http://lesser-magoo.lcs.mit.edu/~cananian )
--
"These students are going to have to find out what law and order is
all about." -- Brig. General Robert Canterbury, Noon, May 4, 1970,
minutes before his troops shot 13 unarmed Kent State students, killing 4.
--
[http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/DeCSS/Gallery/]
#!/usr/bin/perl -w
# 526-byte qrpff, Keith Winstein and Marc Horowitz <si...@mit.edu>
# MPEG 2 PS VOB file on stdin -> descrambled output on stdout
# arguments: title key bytes in least to most-significant order
$_='while(read+STDIN,$_,2048){$a=29;$c=142;if((@a=unx"C*",$_)[20]&48){$h=5;
$_=unxb24,join"",@b=map{xB8,unxb8,chr($_^$a[--$h+84])}@ARGV;s/...$/1$&/;$d=
unxV,xb25,$_;$b=73;$e=256|(ord$b[4])<<9|ord$b[3];$d=$d>>8^($f=($t=255)&($d
>>12^$d>>4^$d^$d/8))<<17,$e=$e>>8^($t&($g=($q=$e>>14&7^$e)^$q*8^$q<<6))<<9
,$_=(map{$_%16or$t^=$c^=($m=(11,10,116,100,11,122,20,100)[$_/16%8])&110;$t
^=(72,@z=(64,72,$a^=12*($_%16-2?0:$m&17)),$b^=$_%64?12:0,@z)[$_%8]}(16..271))
[$_]^(($h>>=8)+=$f+(~$g&$t))for@a[128..$#a]}print+x"C*",@a}';s/x/pack+/g;eval
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Re: [SVN-DEV] Re: working.
Posted by "C. Scott Ananian" <ca...@lesser-magoo.lcs.mit.edu>.
On Wed, 22 Aug 2001, Greg Stein wrote:
> Of course, he could also be 40 yrs old and know all this, and just likes to
> taunt us with all that crud :-)
[...]
> ps. actually, he graduated with a bachelor's degree in '97 making him about
> 25 or 26 now ... but it is fun to rib him anyways :-)
Birthday's in Sep '76, so that makes me 24. I think. =)
I do occasionally trim down my .sig (as below), but I've got political
reasons for including all the cruft, especially on posts to mailing lists
(where I hope it will get archived for a long, long time).
I started out on the internet using 'rn' to read usenet, and back then i
did, indeed, have a nice short .sig. But I don't really believe that
anyone still has to hit space just to page past my .sig anymore, so I
don't feel bad at all for including it.
--s (incorrigible)
Hawk assassinate arrangements tonight NRA operation Kojarena Albanian
Saddam Hussein D5 SLBM Clinton Sugar Grove fissionable Moscow anthrax
( http://lesser-magoo.lcs.mit.edu/~cananian )
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Re: working.
Posted by Greg Stein <gs...@lyra.org>.
On Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 07:03:39PM +0200, Branko �ibej wrote:
> C. Scott Ananian wrote:
>...
> >Chechnya quiche strategic Uzi Semtex pending WTO for Dummies SEAL Team 6
> >Serbian shotgun Waco, Texas genetic Leitrim bomb DC Cocaine Sudan
> > ( http://lesser-magoo.lcs.mit.edu/~cananian )
> > --
> > "These students are going to have to find out what law and order is
> > all about." -- Brig. General Robert Canterbury, Noon, May 4, 1970,
> > minutes before his troops shot 13 unarmed Kent State students, killing 4.
> > --
> > [http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/DeCSS/Gallery/]
> >#!/usr/bin/perl -w
> ># 526-byte qrpff, Keith Winstein and Marc Horowitz <si...@mit.edu>
> ># MPEG 2 PS VOB file on stdin -> descrambled output on stdout
> ># arguments: title key bytes in least to most-significant order
> >$_='while(read+STDIN,$_,2048){$a=29;$c=142;if((@a=unx"C*",$_)[20]&48){$h=5;
> >$_=unxb24,join"",@b=map{xB8,unxb8,chr($_^$a[--$h+84])}@ARGV;s/...$/1$&/;$d=
> >unxV,xb25,$_;$b=73;$e=256|(ord$b[4])<<9|ord$b[3];$d=$d>>8^($f=($t=255)&($d
> >
> >>>12^$d>>4^$d^$d/8))<<17,$e=$e>>8^($t&($g=($q=$e>>14&7^$e)^$q*8^$q<<6))<<9
> >>>
> >,$_=(map{$_%16or$t^=$c^=($m=(11,10,116,100,11,122,20,100)[$_/16%8])&110;$t
> >^=(72,@z=(64,72,$a^=12*($_%16-2?0:$m&17)),$b^=$_%64?12:0,@z)[$_%8]}(16..271))
> >[$_]^(($h>>=8)+=$f+(~$g&$t))for@a[128..$#a]}print+x"C*",@a}';s/x/pack+/g;eval
> >
>
> Now *there*'s a sig that's consistently longer than your posts.
Yes... it is out of control. Based on the timing in the year and the
.mit.edu email address, we assumed Scott was a freshman in college and just
got "this nifty email thing" and went "wow. I can do a cool .sig" ... of
course, without realizing that the longer the sig, the less cool you appear
to be. :-)
Of course, he could also be 40 yrs old and know all this, and just likes to
taunt us with all that crud :-)
Cheers,
-g
ps. actually, he graduated with a bachelor's degree in '97 making him about
25 or 26 now ... but it is fun to rib him anyways :-)
--
Greg Stein, http://www.lyra.org/
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Re: working.
Posted by Branko Čibej <br...@xbc.nu>.
Anil Madhavapeddy wrote:
>On Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 12:11:53PM -0500, Ben Collins-Sussman wrote:
>
>>gettext is GPLed, not LGPLed, so we can't use it. Not unless we find
>>a BSD-compatible replacement, or reinvent the wheel. We've been over
>>this bridge before. :-)
>>
>
>Without getting into the GPL/LGPL debate, there is another option
>that recently got released under the X license: the IBM ICU system.
>Its basically a Unicode library that offers a lot more than gettext.
>
It's also somewhat larger than all of Subversion.
Yes, using ICU would be wonderful; it would also be overkill. And
portability is very important for us.
Brane
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Re: working.
Posted by Anil Madhavapeddy <an...@recoil.org>.
On Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 12:11:53PM -0500, Ben Collins-Sussman wrote:
>
> gettext is GPLed, not LGPLed, so we can't use it. Not unless we find
> a BSD-compatible replacement, or reinvent the wheel. We've been over
> this bridge before. :-)
>
Without getting into the GPL/LGPL debate, there is another option
that recently got released under the X license: the IBM ICU system.
Its basically a Unicode library that offers a lot more than gettext.
http://oss.software.ibm.com/icu/
Downsides? I'm looking to port it OpenBSD right now, and its
build system is ... interesting. Doesn't run on as many platforms
as gettext does.
Anil
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Re: working.
Posted by Branko Čibej <br...@xbc.nu>.
Ben Collins-Sussman wrote:
>Branko =?ISO-8859-2?Q?=C8ibej?= <br...@xbc.nu> writes:
>
>>> Have we decided on the
>>>'catgets' (X/Open standard) vs 'gettext' (Uniforums standard) question?
>>>
>>Oh, we've about decided to use gettext. The cat* stuff is too painful to
>>work with. But I wouldn't bother with that yet if I were you.
>>
>
>gettext is GPLed, not LGPLed, so we can't use it. Not unless we find
>a BSD-compatible replacement, or reinvent the wheel. We've been over
>this bridge before. :-)
>
Yes, and I said back then that I have a copy of GNU gettext that's
extractrd from glibc, which is LGPL, and we can use that on systems that
don't have their own gettext (solaris does, for one).
Brane
--
Brane �ibej <br...@xbc.nu> http://www.xbc.nu/brane/
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Re: [SVN-DEV] Re: working.
Posted by Ben Collins-Sussman <su...@collab.net>.
"C. Scott Ananian" <ca...@lesser-magoo.lcs.mit.edu> writes:
> On 22 Aug 2001, Ben Collins-Sussman wrote:
>
> > gettext is GPLed, not LGPLed, so we can't use it. Not unless we find
> > a BSD-compatible replacement, or reinvent the wheel. We've been over
> > this bridge before. :-)
>
> I don't think this is right. The gettext *standard* is Uniforum's. It's
> not related to GNU at all. GNU have *an implementation* of gettext, with
> some GPL'ed utilities to make it easier to generate PO files and such.
> There's *also* an implementation (perhaps the same one) of gettext in
> glibc. THIS IMPLEMENTATION IS LGPL'ED. Look at /usr/include/libintl.h on
> your system, if you don't believe me.
Well, I use FreeBSD, so I can't see. :-)
> Conclusion: use 'gettext' but don't include the GNU implementation in the
> package. Allow a non-localizable version to be compiled for people
> without a gettext(3) function in their C library.
Sounds good to me.
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Re: [SVN-DEV] Re: working.
Posted by "C. Scott Ananian" <ca...@lesser-magoo.lcs.mit.edu>.
On 22 Aug 2001, Ben Collins-Sussman wrote:
> gettext is GPLed, not LGPLed, so we can't use it. Not unless we find
> a BSD-compatible replacement, or reinvent the wheel. We've been over
> this bridge before. :-)
I don't think this is right. The gettext *standard* is Uniforum's. It's
not related to GNU at all. GNU have *an implementation* of gettext, with
some GPL'ed utilities to make it easier to generate PO files and such.
There's *also* an implementation (perhaps the same one) of gettext in
glibc. THIS IMPLEMENTATION IS LGPL'ED. Look at /usr/include/libintl.h on
your system, if you don't believe me.
And even if it wasn't, the 'info gettext' page says that many "standard"
Unices come with (at least partial) implementations of gettext.
I agree that 'catgets' is too painful for words. But it is slightly more
"standard" Unix, as it's an X/OPEN standard. POSIX declined to settle the
catgets/gettext dispute (remember, no FSF involved here) and so didn't
make either POSIX-standard (unfortunately). Many unices end up with
both. Supporting X/OPEN is really the only reason to prefer catgets.
Many programs chose to include the GNU 'gettext' package in their build
tree to ease portability to those platforms without a native 'gettext'.
SVN can't do that because the GNU 'gettext' is GPL'ed. But that shouldn't
be too much of a problem.
Conclusion: use 'gettext' but don't include the GNU implementation in the
package. Allow a non-localizable version to be compiled for people
without a gettext(3) function in their C library.
--s
p.s. i didn't know most of this stuff when I started writing this email,
or else i probably wouldn't have asked the question in the first place. =)
ASW Shoal Bay colonel Delta Force WTO milita algorithm SSBN 743 Nader
MI5 Legion of Doom FSF LA SDI Echelon assassination politics COBRA JUDY
( http://lesser-magoo.lcs.mit.edu/~cananian )
--
"These students are going to have to find out what law and order is
all about." -- Brig. General Robert Canterbury, Noon, May 4, 1970,
minutes before his troops shot 13 unarmed Kent State students, killing 4.
--
[http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/DeCSS/Gallery/]
#!/usr/bin/perl -w
# 526-byte qrpff, Keith Winstein and Marc Horowitz <si...@mit.edu>
# MPEG 2 PS VOB file on stdin -> descrambled output on stdout
# arguments: title key bytes in least to most-significant order
$_='while(read+STDIN,$_,2048){$a=29;$c=142;if((@a=unx"C*",$_)[20]&48){$h=5;
$_=unxb24,join"",@b=map{xB8,unxb8,chr($_^$a[--$h+84])}@ARGV;s/...$/1$&/;$d=
unxV,xb25,$_;$b=73;$e=256|(ord$b[4])<<9|ord$b[3];$d=$d>>8^($f=($t=255)&($d
>>12^$d>>4^$d^$d/8))<<17,$e=$e>>8^($t&($g=($q=$e>>14&7^$e)^$q*8^$q<<6))<<9
,$_=(map{$_%16or$t^=$c^=($m=(11,10,116,100,11,122,20,100)[$_/16%8])&110;$t
^=(72,@z=(64,72,$a^=12*($_%16-2?0:$m&17)),$b^=$_%64?12:0,@z)[$_%8]}(16..271))
[$_]^(($h>>=8)+=$f+(~$g&$t))for@a[128..$#a]}print+x"C*",@a}';s/x/pack+/g;eval
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Re: working.
Posted by Ben Collins-Sussman <su...@collab.net>.
Branko =?ISO-8859-2?Q?=C8ibej?= <br...@xbc.nu> writes:
> > Have we decided on the
> >'catgets' (X/Open standard) vs 'gettext' (Uniforums standard) question?
> >
>
> Oh, we've about decided to use gettext. The cat* stuff is too painful to
> work with. But I wouldn't bother with that yet if I were you.
gettext is GPLed, not LGPLed, so we can't use it. Not unless we find
a BSD-compatible replacement, or reinvent the wheel. We've been over
this bridge before. :-)
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Re: working.
Posted by Branko Čibej <br...@xbc.nu>.
C. Scott Ananian wrote:
>for what it's worth, i'm working on a getdate rewrite with all of the many
>suggestions that have been offered on the list. It uses the existing libc
>strptime parser extensively; if needed I can (eventually) rewrite strptime
>from scratch, too (but I'd prefer not too!). ISO8601 date parsing is
>almost done.
>
Great! Way to go.
>Does subversion have a localization framework yet to deal with (for
>example) translations of 'yesterday' and friends?
>
No, and none is planned for 1.0. We're concentrating on functionality
for now.
> Have we decided on the
>'catgets' (X/Open standard) vs 'gettext' (Uniforums standard) question?
>
Oh, we've about decided to use gettext. The cat* stuff is too painful to
work with. But I wouldn't bother with that yet if I were you.
>Chechnya quiche strategic Uzi Semtex pending WTO for Dummies SEAL Team 6
>Serbian shotgun Waco, Texas genetic Leitrim bomb DC Cocaine Sudan
> ( http://lesser-magoo.lcs.mit.edu/~cananian )
> --
> "These students are going to have to find out what law and order is
> all about." -- Brig. General Robert Canterbury, Noon, May 4, 1970,
> minutes before his troops shot 13 unarmed Kent State students, killing 4.
> --
> [http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/DeCSS/Gallery/]
>#!/usr/bin/perl -w
># 526-byte qrpff, Keith Winstein and Marc Horowitz <si...@mit.edu>
># MPEG 2 PS VOB file on stdin -> descrambled output on stdout
># arguments: title key bytes in least to most-significant order
>$_='while(read+STDIN,$_,2048){$a=29;$c=142;if((@a=unx"C*",$_)[20]&48){$h=5;
>$_=unxb24,join"",@b=map{xB8,unxb8,chr($_^$a[--$h+84])}@ARGV;s/...$/1$&/;$d=
>unxV,xb25,$_;$b=73;$e=256|(ord$b[4])<<9|ord$b[3];$d=$d>>8^($f=($t=255)&($d
>
>>>12^$d>>4^$d^$d/8))<<17,$e=$e>>8^($t&($g=($q=$e>>14&7^$e)^$q*8^$q<<6))<<9
>>>
>,$_=(map{$_%16or$t^=$c^=($m=(11,10,116,100,11,122,20,100)[$_/16%8])&110;$t
>^=(72,@z=(64,72,$a^=12*($_%16-2?0:$m&17)),$b^=$_%64?12:0,@z)[$_%8]}(16..271))
>[$_]^(($h>>=8)+=$f+(~$g&$t))for@a[128..$#a]}print+x"C*",@a}';s/x/pack+/g;eval
>
Now *there*'s a sig that's consistently longer than your posts.
--
Brane �ibej <br...@xbc.nu> http://www.xbc.nu/brane/
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