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Posted to dev@lenya.apache.org by Thorsten Scherler <th...@juntadeandalucia.es> on 2004/05/13 17:23:59 UTC
[VOTE] Spanish user-list and translation
Hello devs,
after getting the ok of Steve Noels (our PMC) and a possitive feedback
from Gregor, I want to contact the infrastructure team on apache to open
up a spanish user list.
The other point is I want to work on the translation of our site
http://cocoon.apache.org/lenya into spanish. That means I will join
forrest-dev to fuel the effort of internationalization abilities whithin
forrest.
The following voting mechanism is borrowed from the
http-client-dev-list. Everybody can vote but ONLY committers count for
any action taken.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Vote: Creation of a spanish user list
[ ] +1 I am in favor of the proposal, and will help support it.
[ ] +0 I am in favor of the proposal, but am unable to help support it.
[ ] -0 I am not in favor of the proposal.
[ ] -1 I am against this proposal (must include a reason).
---------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Vote: Translation of our website http://cocoon.apache.org/lenya
[ ] +1 I am in favor of the proposal, and will help support it.
[ ] +0 I am in favor of the proposal, but am unable to help support it.
[ ] -0 I am not in favor of the proposal.
[ ] -1 I am against this proposal (must include a reason).
---------------------------------------------------------------------
I hope that some user and committer will vote with +1 ;-)
King regards
thorsten
--
Thorsten Scherler
Departamento de Desarrollo de Proyectos
Sociedad Andaluza para el Desarrollo de la Sociedad de la Información S.A.U.
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Re: [VOTE] Spanish user-list and translation
Posted by Michael Wechner <mi...@wyona.com>.
Rolf Kulemann wrote:
>On Thu, 2004-05-13 at 19:12, Michael Wechner wrote:
>
>
>>
>>yes, I would count them as silent +1 votes ;-)
>>
>>
>
>IMHO, no vote means +0.
>
>
I think in general it should depend on the person who initiates the vote
>
>
>
>
--
Michael Wechner
Wyona Inc. - Open Source Content Management - Apache Lenya
http://www.wyona.com http://cocoon.apache.org/lenya/
michael.wechner@wyona.com michi@apache.org
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Re: [VOTE] Spanish user-list and translation
Posted by Rolf Kulemann <ma...@rolf-kulemann.com>.
On Thu, 2004-05-13 at 19:12, Michael Wechner wrote:
> Thorsten Scherler wrote:
>
> >
> >>
> >
> > Ok, at the moment I got some votes on that one but not from everyone
> > that voted!
> >
> > ...but I reckon that would be alright!
>
>
> yes, I would count them as silent +1 votes ;-)
IMHO, no vote means +0.
--
Rolf Kulemann
Cold, adj.:
When the politicians walk around with their hands in their own
pockets.
PGP/GPG public key:
http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x6B4EA7EA
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Re: [VOTE] Spanish user-list and translation
Posted by Michael Wechner <mi...@wyona.com>.
Thorsten Scherler wrote:
>
>>
>
> Ok, at the moment I got some votes on that one but not from everyone
> that voted!
>
> ...but I reckon that would be alright!
yes, I would count them as silent +1 votes ;-)
Michi
> If not let me know
>
> King regards
>
--
Michael Wechner
Wyona Inc. - Open Source Content Management - Apache Lenya
http://www.wyona.com http://cocoon.apache.org/lenya/
michael.wechner@wyona.com michi@apache.org
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Re: [VOTE] Spanish user-list and translation
Posted by Michael Wechner <mi...@wyona.com>.
Thorsten Scherler wrote:
>
>>
>
> Ok, at the moment I got some votes on that one but not from everyone
> that voted!
>
> ...but I reckon that would be alright!
yes, I would count them as silent +1 votes ;-)
Michi
> If not let me know
>
> King regards
>
--
Michael Wechner
Wyona Inc. - Open Source Content Management - Apache Lenya
http://www.wyona.com http://cocoon.apache.org/lenya/
michael.wechner@wyona.com michi@apache.org
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Re: [VOTE] Spanish user-list and translation
Posted by Antonio Gallardo <ag...@agssa.net>.
Thorsten Scherler dijo:
> ...but anyway I guess I will then drop the idea of creating a
> spanish list. Like Antonio (betrayer ;-)) said: Together we SHALL stand,
> divided we WILL fault.
lol :-DD
Best Regards,
Antonio Gallardo
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Re: [VOTE] Spanish user-list and translation
Posted by Thorsten Scherler <th...@juntadeandalucia.es>.
Michael Wechner wrote:
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Vote: Creation of a spanish user list
>> [ ] +1 I am in favor of the proposal, and will help support it.
>> [ ] +0 I am in favor of the proposal, but am unable to help support it.
>> [ ] -0 I am not in favor of the proposal.
>> [ ] -1 I am against this proposal (must include a reason).
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> -0
[...]
> I would rather suggest that people write in the language they feel
> familiar with
> and people which don't understand it, just delete the message. This way
> non-spanish speaking members might start to learn spanish, such as for
> instance
> myself ;-)
>
Ok, I guess that would be fine as well for international user.
I thought that would not be possible. ...and I don't refer to you
learning spanish ;-)
> On the other hand I think it's good if the hurdle to enter the community
> via the mailing list is as small as possible.
Ok, if we allow anybody that is not able to write in english to write in
their own language that would be the case. I would try to translate the
(spanish) mails if I feel nobody understood it.
>
> What about other communities? Do they have different mailing lists for
> different languages? Well, I guess they do. Whatever, I guess I am 0
> now ;-)
The incubating Spamassassin project has German mailing lists, for
example. ...but anyway I guess I will then drop the idea of creating a
spanish list. Like Antonio (betrayer ;-)) said: Together we SHALL stand,
divided we WILL fault.
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Vote: Translation of our website http://cocoon.apache.org/lenya
>> [ ] +1 I am in favor of the proposal, and will help support it.
>> [ ] +0 I am in favor of the proposal, but am unable to help support it.
>> [ ] -0 I am not in favor of the proposal.
>> [ ] -1 I am against this proposal (must include a reason).
>
>
>
> +1
>
Ok, at the moment I got some votes on that one but not from everyone
that voted!
...but I reckon that would be alright! If not let me know
King regards
--
Thorsten Scherler
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Re: [VOTE] Spanish user-list and translation
Posted by Antonio Gallardo <ag...@agssa.net>.
Andreas Hartmann dijo:
> Michael Wechner wrote:
> [...]
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Vote: Creation of a spanish user list
>>> [ ] +1 I am in favor of the proposal, and will help support it.
>>> [ ] +0 I am in favor of the proposal, but am unable to help support it.
>>> [ ] -0 I am not in favor of the proposal.
>>> [ ] -1 I am against this proposal (must include a reason).
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> -0
>>
>> I certainly understand that english is not everybodys language, but
>> I think it would be a pity if spanish speaking people become isolated
>> within their own mailing list.
>>
>> I would rather suggest that people write in the language they feel
>> familiar with
>> and people which don't understand it, just delete the message. This way
>> non-spanish speaking members might start to learn spanish, such as for
>> instance
>> myself ;-)
-0 Same reasons as above.
My mother language is spanish and maybe people expect that I will vote in
favor of a spanish list, but this is not the case. I want to vote -1 on
that, but I stay just at a -0. The reasons are the same as exposed before:
broken a small community into a 2 or more smaller ones is not a good idea.
Many people speak German and fortunately they don't requested to have a
special German list. I really apreciate that since the post of many people
help us to learn more and sometimes they ask something that we will need
later. In short: 2 languages will need 2 times effort.
Together we stand, divided we fault. :-D
Best Regards,
Antonio Gallardo.
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Re: [VOTE] Spanish user-list and translation
Posted by Jean Pierre LeJacq <jp...@quoininc.com>.
On Thu, 13 May 2004, Andreas Hartmann wrote:
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> Vote: Creation of a spanish user list
> >> [ ] +1 I am in favor of the proposal, and will help support it.
> >> [ ] +0 I am in favor of the proposal, but am unable to help support it.
> >> [ ] -0 I am not in favor of the proposal.
> >> [ ] -1 I am against this proposal (must include a reason).
> >>
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> -0 from me for the same reasons.
>
> IMO separated lists make sense for big, stable projects.
> But we (the devs) can gain a lot of insights from user feedback.
-0 for the same reason.
--
JP
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Re: [VOTE] Spanish user-list and translation
Posted by Jean Pierre LeJacq <jp...@quoininc.com>.
On Thu, 13 May 2004, Andreas Hartmann wrote:
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> Vote: Creation of a spanish user list
> >> [ ] +1 I am in favor of the proposal, and will help support it.
> >> [ ] +0 I am in favor of the proposal, but am unable to help support it.
> >> [ ] -0 I am not in favor of the proposal.
> >> [ ] -1 I am against this proposal (must include a reason).
> >>
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> -0 from me for the same reasons.
>
> IMO separated lists make sense for big, stable projects.
> But we (the devs) can gain a lot of insights from user feedback.
-0 for the same reason.
--
JP
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Re: [VOTE] Spanish user-list and translation
Posted by Andreas Hartmann <an...@apache.org>.
Michael Wechner wrote:
[...]
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Vote: Creation of a spanish user list
>> [ ] +1 I am in favor of the proposal, and will help support it.
>> [ ] +0 I am in favor of the proposal, but am unable to help support it.
>> [ ] -0 I am not in favor of the proposal.
>> [ ] -1 I am against this proposal (must include a reason).
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> -0
>
> I certainly understand that english is not everybodys language, but
> I think it would be a pity if spanish speaking people become isolated
> within their own mailing list.
>
> I would rather suggest that people write in the language they feel
> familiar with
> and people which don't understand it, just delete the message. This way
> non-spanish speaking members might start to learn spanish, such as for
> instance
> myself ;-)
-0 from me for the same reasons.
IMO separated lists make sense for big, stable projects.
But we (the devs) can gain a lot of insights from user feedback.
I would prefer foreign language messages to be translated
into English on the list by someone who is capable of this.
And, as Michael said, maybe we even learn one or two words of
Spanish :)
-- Andreas
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Re: [VOTE] Spanish user-list and translation
Posted by Thorsten Scherler <th...@juntadeandalucia.es>.
Michael Wechner wrote:
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Vote: Creation of a spanish user list
>> [ ] +1 I am in favor of the proposal, and will help support it.
>> [ ] +0 I am in favor of the proposal, but am unable to help support it.
>> [ ] -0 I am not in favor of the proposal.
>> [ ] -1 I am against this proposal (must include a reason).
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> -0
[...]
> I would rather suggest that people write in the language they feel
> familiar with
> and people which don't understand it, just delete the message. This way
> non-spanish speaking members might start to learn spanish, such as for
> instance
> myself ;-)
>
Ok, I guess that would be fine as well for international user.
I thought that would not be possible. ...and I don't refer to you
learning spanish ;-)
> On the other hand I think it's good if the hurdle to enter the community
> via the mailing list is as small as possible.
Ok, if we allow anybody that is not able to write in english to write in
their own language that would be the case. I would try to translate the
(spanish) mails if I feel nobody understood it.
>
> What about other communities? Do they have different mailing lists for
> different languages? Well, I guess they do. Whatever, I guess I am 0
> now ;-)
The incubating Spamassassin project has German mailing lists, for
example. ...but anyway I guess I will then drop the idea of creating a
spanish list. Like Antonio (betrayer ;-)) said: Together we SHALL stand,
divided we WILL fault.
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Vote: Translation of our website http://cocoon.apache.org/lenya
>> [ ] +1 I am in favor of the proposal, and will help support it.
>> [ ] +0 I am in favor of the proposal, but am unable to help support it.
>> [ ] -0 I am not in favor of the proposal.
>> [ ] -1 I am against this proposal (must include a reason).
>
>
>
> +1
>
Ok, at the moment I got some votes on that one but not from everyone
that voted!
...but I reckon that would be alright! If not let me know
King regards
--
Thorsten Scherler
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Re: [VOTE] Spanish user-list and translation
Posted by Michael Wechner <mi...@wyona.com>.
Thorsten Scherler wrote:
> Hello devs,
>
> after getting the ok of Steve Noels (our PMC) and a possitive feedback
> from Gregor, I want to contact the infrastructure team on apache to
> open up a spanish user list.
>
> The other point is I want to work on the translation of our site
> http://cocoon.apache.org/lenya into spanish. That means I will join
> forrest-dev to fuel the effort of internationalization abilities
> whithin forrest.
>
> The following voting mechanism is borrowed from the
> http-client-dev-list. Everybody can vote but ONLY committers count for
> any action taken.
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Vote: Creation of a spanish user list
> [ ] +1 I am in favor of the proposal, and will help support it.
> [ ] +0 I am in favor of the proposal, but am unable to help support it.
> [ ] -0 I am not in favor of the proposal.
> [ ] -1 I am against this proposal (must include a reason).
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
-0
I certainly understand that english is not everybodys language, but
I think it would be a pity if spanish speaking people become isolated
within their own mailing list.
I would rather suggest that people write in the language they feel
familiar with
and people which don't understand it, just delete the message. This way
non-spanish speaking members might start to learn spanish, such as for
instance
myself ;-)
On the other hand I think it's good if the hurdle to enter the community
via the mailing list is as small as possible.
What about other communities? Do they have different mailing lists for
different languages? Well, I guess they do. Whatever, I guess I am 0 now ;-)
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Vote: Translation of our website http://cocoon.apache.org/lenya
> [ ] +1 I am in favor of the proposal, and will help support it.
> [ ] +0 I am in favor of the proposal, but am unable to help support it.
> [ ] -0 I am not in favor of the proposal.
> [ ] -1 I am against this proposal (must include a reason).
+1
Michi
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> I hope that some user and committer will vote with +1 ;-)
>
> King regards
> thorsten
--
Michael Wechner
Wyona Inc. - Open Source Content Management - Apache Lenya
http://www.wyona.com http://cocoon.apache.org/lenya/
michael.wechner@wyona.com michi@apache.org
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Re: [VOTE] Spanish user-list and translation
Posted by Michael Wechner <mi...@wyona.com>.
Thorsten Scherler wrote:
> Hello devs,
>
> after getting the ok of Steve Noels (our PMC) and a possitive feedback
> from Gregor, I want to contact the infrastructure team on apache to
> open up a spanish user list.
>
> The other point is I want to work on the translation of our site
> http://cocoon.apache.org/lenya into spanish. That means I will join
> forrest-dev to fuel the effort of internationalization abilities
> whithin forrest.
>
> The following voting mechanism is borrowed from the
> http-client-dev-list. Everybody can vote but ONLY committers count for
> any action taken.
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Vote: Creation of a spanish user list
> [ ] +1 I am in favor of the proposal, and will help support it.
> [ ] +0 I am in favor of the proposal, but am unable to help support it.
> [ ] -0 I am not in favor of the proposal.
> [ ] -1 I am against this proposal (must include a reason).
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
-0
I certainly understand that english is not everybodys language, but
I think it would be a pity if spanish speaking people become isolated
within their own mailing list.
I would rather suggest that people write in the language they feel
familiar with
and people which don't understand it, just delete the message. This way
non-spanish speaking members might start to learn spanish, such as for
instance
myself ;-)
On the other hand I think it's good if the hurdle to enter the community
via the mailing list is as small as possible.
What about other communities? Do they have different mailing lists for
different languages? Well, I guess they do. Whatever, I guess I am 0 now ;-)
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Vote: Translation of our website http://cocoon.apache.org/lenya
> [ ] +1 I am in favor of the proposal, and will help support it.
> [ ] +0 I am in favor of the proposal, but am unable to help support it.
> [ ] -0 I am not in favor of the proposal.
> [ ] -1 I am against this proposal (must include a reason).
+1
Michi
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> I hope that some user and committer will vote with +1 ;-)
>
> King regards
> thorsten
--
Michael Wechner
Wyona Inc. - Open Source Content Management - Apache Lenya
http://www.wyona.com http://cocoon.apache.org/lenya/
michael.wechner@wyona.com michi@apache.org
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Re: [VOTE] Spanish user-list and translation
Posted by "Gregor J. Rothfuss" <gr...@apache.org>.
Thorsten Scherler wrote:
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Vote: Creation of a spanish user list
> [ ] +1 I am in favor of the proposal, and will help support it.
> [ x] +0 I am in favor of the proposal, but am unable to help support it.
> [ ] -0 I am not in favor of the proposal.
> [ ] -1 I am against this proposal (must include a reason).
i think its crucial that people act as conduits for bugzilla. i wont be
able to resolve spanish bug reports :) we made good experiences with
user lists in multiple languages. strengthens the community in those
parts. we insisted on a single dev list though (same here i guess).
> Vote: Translation of our website http://cocoon.apache.org/lenya
> [ ] +1 I am in favor of the proposal, and will help support it.
> [x ] +0 I am in favor of the proposal, but am unable to help support it.
> [ ] -0 I am not in favor of the proposal.
> [ ] -1 I am against this proposal (must include a reason).
> I hope that some user and committer will vote with +1 ;-)
good luck ;)
--
Gregor J. Rothfuss
Wyona Inc. - Open Source Content Management - Apache Lenya
http://wyona.com http://cocoon.apache.org/lenya
gregor.rothfuss@wyona.com gregor@apache.org
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Re: [VOTE] Spanish user-list and translation
Posted by Jesús Pérez <je...@whitebearsolutions.com>.
+0
El jue, 13-05-2004 a las 17:23, Thorsten Scherler escribió:
> Hello devs,
>
> after getting the ok of Steve Noels (our PMC) and a possitive feedback
> from Gregor, I want to contact the infrastructure team on apache to open
> up a spanish user list.
>
> The other point is I want to work on the translation of our site
> http://cocoon.apache.org/lenya into spanish. That means I will join
> forrest-dev to fuel the effort of internationalization abilities whithin
> forrest.
>
> The following voting mechanism is borrowed from the
> http-client-dev-list. Everybody can vote but ONLY committers count for
> any action taken.
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Vote: Creation of a spanish user list
> [ ] +1 I am in favor of the proposal, and will help support it.
> [ ] +0 I am in favor of the proposal, but am unable to help support it.
> [ ] -0 I am not in favor of the proposal.
> [ ] -1 I am against this proposal (must include a reason).
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Vote: Translation of our website http://cocoon.apache.org/lenya
> [ ] +1 I am in favor of the proposal, and will help support it.
> [ ] +0 I am in favor of the proposal, but am unable to help support it.
> [ ] -0 I am not in favor of the proposal.
> [ ] -1 I am against this proposal (must include a reason).
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> I hope that some user and committer will vote with +1 ;-)
>
> King regards
> thorsten
W h i t e
B e a r
Solutions
Jesús Pérez Franco
Jefe de Proyecto
Tlf: (+34) 914131563 Fax: (+34) 914131563
jesus.perez@whitebearsolutions.com
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Re: [VOTE] Spanish user-list and translation
Posted by Thorsten Scherler <th...@juntadeandalucia.es>.
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Vote: Creation of a spanish user list
> [X] +1 I am in favor of the proposal, and will help support it.
> [ ] +0 I am in favor of the proposal, but am unable to help support it.
> [ ] -0 I am not in favor of the proposal.
> [ ] -1 I am against this proposal (must include a reason).
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>
+1
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Vote: Translation of our website http://cocoon.apache.org/lenya
> [X] +1 I am in favor of the proposal, and will help support it.
> [ ] +0 I am in favor of the proposal, but am unable to help support it.
> [ ] -0 I am not in favor of the proposal.
> [ ] -1 I am against this proposal (must include a reason).
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>
+1
>
> King regards
> thorsten
thorsten
--
Thorsten Scherler
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Re: [VOTE] Spanish user-list and translation
Posted by Rolf Kulemann <ma...@rolf-kulemann.com>.
On Thu, 2004-05-13 at 18:30, Andreas Kuckartz wrote:
> My opinions:
>
> > Vote: Creation of a spanish user list
> > [ ] +1 I am in favor of the proposal, and will help support it.
> > [ ] +0 I am in favor of the proposal, but am unable to help support it.
> > [ ] -0 I am not in favor of the proposal.
> > [ ] -1 I am against this proposal (must include a reason).
>
> -1
>
> Reasons were already given by others. New communication channels in addition to
> those which already exist should only be created if there is a striking demand.
> I do not see that here. "Nice to have" is not enough.
>
> > Vote: Translation of our website http://cocoon.apache.org/lenya
> > [ ] +1 I am in favor of the proposal, and will help support it.
> > [ ] +0 I am in favor of the proposal, but am unable to help support it.
> > [ ] -0 I am not in favor of the proposal.
> > [ ] -1 I am against this proposal (must include a reason).
>
> +0
+0
--
Rolf Kulemann
Happiness is having a scratch for every itch.
-- Ogden Nash
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Re: [VOTE] Spanish user-list and translation
Posted by Andreas Kuckartz <A....@ping.de>.
My opinions:
> Vote: Creation of a spanish user list
> [ ] +1 I am in favor of the proposal, and will help support it.
> [ ] +0 I am in favor of the proposal, but am unable to help support it.
> [ ] -0 I am not in favor of the proposal.
> [ ] -1 I am against this proposal (must include a reason).
-1
Reasons were already given by others. New communication channels in addition to
those which already exist should only be created if there is a striking demand.
I do not see that here. "Nice to have" is not enough.
> Vote: Translation of our website http://cocoon.apache.org/lenya
> [ ] +1 I am in favor of the proposal, and will help support it.
> [ ] +0 I am in favor of the proposal, but am unable to help support it.
> [ ] -0 I am not in favor of the proposal.
> [ ] -1 I am against this proposal (must include a reason).
+0
Andreas
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Re: [VOTE] Spanish user-list and translation
Posted by Andreas Kuckartz <A....@ping.de>.
My opinions:
> Vote: Creation of a spanish user list
> [ ] +1 I am in favor of the proposal, and will help support it.
> [ ] +0 I am in favor of the proposal, but am unable to help support it.
> [ ] -0 I am not in favor of the proposal.
> [ ] -1 I am against this proposal (must include a reason).
-1
Reasons were already given by others. New communication channels in addition to
those which already exist should only be created if there is a striking demand.
I do not see that here. "Nice to have" is not enough.
> Vote: Translation of our website http://cocoon.apache.org/lenya
> [ ] +1 I am in favor of the proposal, and will help support it.
> [ ] +0 I am in favor of the proposal, but am unable to help support it.
> [ ] -0 I am not in favor of the proposal.
> [ ] -1 I am against this proposal (must include a reason).
+0
Andreas
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