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Posted to server-user@james.apache.org by Mark Imel <mi...@imelshire.com> on 2003/02/07 09:01:50 UTC

Resolving MXs

I'm a new user to James and having been having a few problems recently...
I'm receiving email just fine, and for some email addresses, i'm able to send email just fine.

But for a fair amount of email addresses i'm getting a message like this one from the mailet.log

06/02/03 21:56:37 INFO  James.Mailet: RemoteDelivery: Temporary exception delivering mail (Mail1044597170060-1-to-hotmail.
com: javax.mail.MessagingException: There are no DNS entries for the hostname hotmail.com.  I cannot determine where to se
nd this message.
        at org.apache.james.transport.mailets.RemoteDelivery.deliver(RemoteDelivery.java:185)
        at org.apache.james.transport.mailets.RemoteDelivery.run(RemoteDelivery.java:593)
        at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:536)

Before going further, i'll mention that i've added appropriate dns servers to the config.xml, and the DNSServer class (org.apache.james.dnsserver.DNSServer) is properly using them via the ExtendedResolver.

So, i dug into the code, and saw that james uses the javadns library at http://sourceforge.net/projects/dnsjava.
Next, i ran a little test harness included with the dnsjava distribution that mimics the 'dig' utility and by querying for hotmail with one of my configured dns servers, the following output was generated:


;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: STATUS, status: NOERROR, id: 6141
;; flags: qr rd ; qd: 1 an: 0 au: 4 ad: 4 
;; QUESTIONS:
;;      hotmail.com., type = MX, class = IN

;; ANSWERS:

;; AUTHORITY RECORDS:
hotmail.com.    172800 IN NS            ns1.hotmail.com.
hotmail.com.    172800 IN NS            ns3.hotmail.com.
hotmail.com.    172800 IN NS            ns2.hotmail.com.
hotmail.com.    172800 IN NS            ns4.hotmail.com.

;; ADDITIONAL RECORDS:
ns1.hotmail.com.        172800 IN A             216.200.206.140
ns3.hotmail.com.        172800 IN A             209.185.130.68
ns2.hotmail.com.        172800 IN A             216.200.206.139
ns4.hotmail.com.        172800 IN A             64.4.29.24


As you can see, there are no Answers (in this case MX records), but there are authority records that could be further queried to obtain those Answers (MX records).  Next, i attached with a remote debugger to see if James would ever follow up a query with a further query to the authority records...(BTW: I'm using James2.1)  It doesn't, and as a result, there are a lot of email addresses that i currently can't send email to.

What important piece am i missing in order for these email addresses to get resolved?
Regards,
--Mark Imel



Re: Resolving MXs

Posted by Aaron Knauf <ak...@xtra.co.nz>.
I am a little rusty on the details, because it is a number of years 
since I last managed any DNS servers, but I seem to remember that there 
are two types of DNS query - recursive and non-recursive.

DNS resolvers (clients) typically make recursive queries, meaning that 
the server is expected to return an answer to the resolver without the 
resolver having to make any further queries.

DNS servers typically make non-recursive queries.  They will often have 
to follow a chain of NS records to find a server that has the info they 
are after, because other servers won't do it for them.

I believe, however, that a DNS resolver is supposed to be able to handle 
servers that refuse to handle recursive queries.  Is this a bug in 
dnsjava?  Or is handling of non-recursive queries supposed to be optional?

Cheers

ADK

Mark Imel wrote:

>Thanks for the response.  You gave me the clue that i needed to fix the
>problem...
>You said: 'The whole point of the DNS is for the server to do that work, not
>the client.  James is just a DNS client.'
>
>And i realized, that in my foolishness, i wasn't using my isp's dns servers,
>but some root dns servers that won't do that work.  (eg: A.GTLD-SERVERS.NET)
>Now that i'm using my isp's dns servers, they are doing the work of
>'de-referencing' the authoritative records and obtaining the MX-records that
>james needs.
>
>Thanks again,
>--mark imel
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com>
>To: "James Users List" <ja...@jakarta.apache.org>
>Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 10:51 AM
>Subject: RE: Resolving MXs
>
>
>  
>
>>>BTW: I'm using the dns 1.2.3 which is compatible with James2.1.
>>>      
>>>
>>We have replacement dns code that I wanted to get more testing on before
>>putting it out, so I'll put up a test build for you to try.
>>
>>I'm wondering about one of your local dns servers not giving you the
>>    
>>
>correct
>  
>
>>results.  What software is running the DNS on each of your servers?  We
>>    
>>
>have
>  
>
>>bind 8 running on one gateway, and bind 9 running elsewhere.  The whole
>>point of the DNS is for the server to do that work, not the client.  James
>>is just a DNS client.
>>
>>--- Noel
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Mark Imel [mailto:james@imelshire.com]
>>Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 12:11
>>To: James Users List
>>Subject: Re: Resolving MXs
>>
>>
>>Thanks for the response Noel,
>>
>>Its not clear to me that just letting the dns library try again solves the
>>problem.  I'm having this problem with a number of domains and as a
>>    
>>
>result,
>  
>
>>getting a lot of emails bounced back as undeliverable due to this reason.
>>
>>To me, it seems like either i've really messed up my config, or its a bug
>>with the DNSServer class.  And after stepping through the code, i'm
>>    
>>
>leaning
>  
>
>>towards the latter.
>>
>>IMHO (i'm just a james-newbie, so i'm quite likely to be mistaken), i feel
>>that if the DNS records come back with no answers, but some authoritative
>>sources for MX records, those returned authoritative sources should be
>>queried instead of querying the exact same source.
>>
>>Regards,
>>--mark
>>
>>BTW: I'm using the dns 1.2.3 which is compatible with James2.1.
>>
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com>
>>To: "James Users List" <ja...@jakarta.apache.org>
>>Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 1:32 AM
>>Subject: RE: Resolving MXs
>>
>>
>>    
>>
>>>Mark,
>>>
>>>Are you using the version of dnsjava that came with James, or the newer
>>>version?  Those are typically transient.  I've seen 25 of them since
>>>mid-August (yes, I grepped the logs).  They invariably clear up on the
>>>second attempt.
>>>
>>>I ran the same thing, and got this:
>>>
>>>$ java -cp dnsjava-1.3.2.jar dig hotmail.com mx
>>>; java dig 0.0
>>>;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: STATUS, status: NOERROR, id: 25218
>>>;; flags: qr rd ra ; qd: 1 an: 4 au: 4 ad: 14
>>>;; QUESTIONS:
>>>;;      hotmail.com., type = MX, class = IN
>>>
>>>;; ANSWERS:
>>>hotmail.com.    3248 IN MX              5 mx2.hotmail.com.
>>>hotmail.com.    3248 IN MX              5 mx3.hotmail.com.
>>>hotmail.com.    3248 IN MX              5 mx4.hotmail.com.
>>>hotmail.com.    3248 IN MX              5 mx1.hotmail.com.
>>>
>>>;; AUTHORITY RECORDS:
>>>hotmail.com.    63491 IN NS             ns1.hotmail.com.
>>>hotmail.com.    63491 IN NS             NS2.hotmail.com.
>>>hotmail.com.    63491 IN NS             NS3.hotmail.com.
>>>hotmail.com.    63491 IN NS             NS4.hotmail.com.
>>>
>>>;; ADDITIONAL RECORDS:
>>>mx2.hotmail.com.        3248 IN A               65.54.254.145
>>>mx2.hotmail.com.        3248 IN A               65.54.252.230
>>>mx2.hotmail.com.        3248 IN A               65.54.166.230
>>>mx3.hotmail.com.        3248 IN A               65.54.254.140
>>>mx3.hotmail.com.        3248 IN A               65.54.253.99
>>>mx4.hotmail.com.        3248 IN A               65.54.254.151
>>>mx4.hotmail.com.        3248 IN A               65.54.253.230
>>>mx1.hotmail.com.        3248 IN A               65.54.254.129
>>>mx1.hotmail.com.        3248 IN A               65.54.252.99
>>>mx1.hotmail.com.        3248 IN A               65.54.166.99
>>>ns1.hotmail.com.        63491 IN A              216.200.206.140
>>>NS2.hotmail.com.        63491 IN A              216.200.206.139
>>>NS3.hotmail.com.        63491 IN A              209.185.130.68
>>>NS4.hotmail.com.        63491 IN A              64.4.29.24
>>>
>>>;; done (405 bytes)
>>>
>>>I was able to reproduce those results with both v1.2.3 and v1.3.2 of
>>>dnsjava, on both Windows XP and linux.
>>>
>>>--- Noel
>>>      
>>>
>>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>To unsubscribe, e-mail: james-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
>>For additional commands, e-mail: james-user-help@jakarta.apache.org
>>
>>    
>>
>
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
>
>  
>



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Re: Resolving MXs

Posted by Mark Imel <ja...@imelshire.com>.
Thanks for the response.  You gave me the clue that i needed to fix the
problem...
You said: 'The whole point of the DNS is for the server to do that work, not
the client.  James is just a DNS client.'

And i realized, that in my foolishness, i wasn't using my isp's dns servers,
but some root dns servers that won't do that work.  (eg: A.GTLD-SERVERS.NET)
Now that i'm using my isp's dns servers, they are doing the work of
'de-referencing' the authoritative records and obtaining the MX-records that
james needs.

Thanks again,
--mark imel

----- Original Message -----
From: "Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com>
To: "James Users List" <ja...@jakarta.apache.org>
Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 10:51 AM
Subject: RE: Resolving MXs


> > BTW: I'm using the dns 1.2.3 which is compatible with James2.1.
>
> We have replacement dns code that I wanted to get more testing on before
> putting it out, so I'll put up a test build for you to try.
>
> I'm wondering about one of your local dns servers not giving you the
correct
> results.  What software is running the DNS on each of your servers?  We
have
> bind 8 running on one gateway, and bind 9 running elsewhere.  The whole
> point of the DNS is for the server to do that work, not the client.  James
> is just a DNS client.
>
> --- Noel
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mark Imel [mailto:james@imelshire.com]
> Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 12:11
> To: James Users List
> Subject: Re: Resolving MXs
>
>
> Thanks for the response Noel,
>
> Its not clear to me that just letting the dns library try again solves the
> problem.  I'm having this problem with a number of domains and as a
result,
> getting a lot of emails bounced back as undeliverable due to this reason.
>
> To me, it seems like either i've really messed up my config, or its a bug
> with the DNSServer class.  And after stepping through the code, i'm
leaning
> towards the latter.
>
> IMHO (i'm just a james-newbie, so i'm quite likely to be mistaken), i feel
> that if the DNS records come back with no answers, but some authoritative
> sources for MX records, those returned authoritative sources should be
> queried instead of querying the exact same source.
>
> Regards,
> --mark
>
> BTW: I'm using the dns 1.2.3 which is compatible with James2.1.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com>
> To: "James Users List" <ja...@jakarta.apache.org>
> Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 1:32 AM
> Subject: RE: Resolving MXs
>
>
> > Mark,
> >
> > Are you using the version of dnsjava that came with James, or the newer
> > version?  Those are typically transient.  I've seen 25 of them since
> > mid-August (yes, I grepped the logs).  They invariably clear up on the
> > second attempt.
> >
> > I ran the same thing, and got this:
> >
> > $ java -cp dnsjava-1.3.2.jar dig hotmail.com mx
> > ; java dig 0.0
> > ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: STATUS, status: NOERROR, id: 25218
> > ;; flags: qr rd ra ; qd: 1 an: 4 au: 4 ad: 14
> > ;; QUESTIONS:
> > ;;      hotmail.com., type = MX, class = IN
> >
> > ;; ANSWERS:
> > hotmail.com.    3248 IN MX              5 mx2.hotmail.com.
> > hotmail.com.    3248 IN MX              5 mx3.hotmail.com.
> > hotmail.com.    3248 IN MX              5 mx4.hotmail.com.
> > hotmail.com.    3248 IN MX              5 mx1.hotmail.com.
> >
> > ;; AUTHORITY RECORDS:
> > hotmail.com.    63491 IN NS             ns1.hotmail.com.
> > hotmail.com.    63491 IN NS             NS2.hotmail.com.
> > hotmail.com.    63491 IN NS             NS3.hotmail.com.
> > hotmail.com.    63491 IN NS             NS4.hotmail.com.
> >
> > ;; ADDITIONAL RECORDS:
> > mx2.hotmail.com.        3248 IN A               65.54.254.145
> > mx2.hotmail.com.        3248 IN A               65.54.252.230
> > mx2.hotmail.com.        3248 IN A               65.54.166.230
> > mx3.hotmail.com.        3248 IN A               65.54.254.140
> > mx3.hotmail.com.        3248 IN A               65.54.253.99
> > mx4.hotmail.com.        3248 IN A               65.54.254.151
> > mx4.hotmail.com.        3248 IN A               65.54.253.230
> > mx1.hotmail.com.        3248 IN A               65.54.254.129
> > mx1.hotmail.com.        3248 IN A               65.54.252.99
> > mx1.hotmail.com.        3248 IN A               65.54.166.99
> > ns1.hotmail.com.        63491 IN A              216.200.206.140
> > NS2.hotmail.com.        63491 IN A              216.200.206.139
> > NS3.hotmail.com.        63491 IN A              209.185.130.68
> > NS4.hotmail.com.        63491 IN A              64.4.29.24
> >
> > ;; done (405 bytes)
> >
> > I was able to reproduce those results with both v1.2.3 and v1.3.2 of
> > dnsjava, on both Windows XP and linux.
> >
> > --- Noel
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: james-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: james-user-help@jakarta.apache.org
>


---------------------------------------------------------------------
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RE: Resolving MXs

Posted by "Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com>.
> BTW: I'm using the dns 1.2.3 which is compatible with James2.1.

We have replacement dns code that I wanted to get more testing on before
putting it out, so I'll put up a test build for you to try.

I'm wondering about one of your local dns servers not giving you the correct
results.  What software is running the DNS on each of your servers?  We have
bind 8 running on one gateway, and bind 9 running elsewhere.  The whole
point of the DNS is for the server to do that work, not the client.  James
is just a DNS client.

	--- Noel

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Imel [mailto:james@imelshire.com]
Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 12:11
To: James Users List
Subject: Re: Resolving MXs


Thanks for the response Noel,

Its not clear to me that just letting the dns library try again solves the
problem.  I'm having this problem with a number of domains and as a result,
getting a lot of emails bounced back as undeliverable due to this reason.

To me, it seems like either i've really messed up my config, or its a bug
with the DNSServer class.  And after stepping through the code, i'm leaning
towards the latter.

IMHO (i'm just a james-newbie, so i'm quite likely to be mistaken), i feel
that if the DNS records come back with no answers, but some authoritative
sources for MX records, those returned authoritative sources should be
queried instead of querying the exact same source.

Regards,
--mark

BTW: I'm using the dns 1.2.3 which is compatible with James2.1.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com>
To: "James Users List" <ja...@jakarta.apache.org>
Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 1:32 AM
Subject: RE: Resolving MXs


> Mark,
>
> Are you using the version of dnsjava that came with James, or the newer
> version?  Those are typically transient.  I've seen 25 of them since
> mid-August (yes, I grepped the logs).  They invariably clear up on the
> second attempt.
>
> I ran the same thing, and got this:
>
> $ java -cp dnsjava-1.3.2.jar dig hotmail.com mx
> ; java dig 0.0
> ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: STATUS, status: NOERROR, id: 25218
> ;; flags: qr rd ra ; qd: 1 an: 4 au: 4 ad: 14
> ;; QUESTIONS:
> ;;      hotmail.com., type = MX, class = IN
>
> ;; ANSWERS:
> hotmail.com.    3248 IN MX              5 mx2.hotmail.com.
> hotmail.com.    3248 IN MX              5 mx3.hotmail.com.
> hotmail.com.    3248 IN MX              5 mx4.hotmail.com.
> hotmail.com.    3248 IN MX              5 mx1.hotmail.com.
>
> ;; AUTHORITY RECORDS:
> hotmail.com.    63491 IN NS             ns1.hotmail.com.
> hotmail.com.    63491 IN NS             NS2.hotmail.com.
> hotmail.com.    63491 IN NS             NS3.hotmail.com.
> hotmail.com.    63491 IN NS             NS4.hotmail.com.
>
> ;; ADDITIONAL RECORDS:
> mx2.hotmail.com.        3248 IN A               65.54.254.145
> mx2.hotmail.com.        3248 IN A               65.54.252.230
> mx2.hotmail.com.        3248 IN A               65.54.166.230
> mx3.hotmail.com.        3248 IN A               65.54.254.140
> mx3.hotmail.com.        3248 IN A               65.54.253.99
> mx4.hotmail.com.        3248 IN A               65.54.254.151
> mx4.hotmail.com.        3248 IN A               65.54.253.230
> mx1.hotmail.com.        3248 IN A               65.54.254.129
> mx1.hotmail.com.        3248 IN A               65.54.252.99
> mx1.hotmail.com.        3248 IN A               65.54.166.99
> ns1.hotmail.com.        63491 IN A              216.200.206.140
> NS2.hotmail.com.        63491 IN A              216.200.206.139
> NS3.hotmail.com.        63491 IN A              209.185.130.68
> NS4.hotmail.com.        63491 IN A              64.4.29.24
>
> ;; done (405 bytes)
>
> I was able to reproduce those results with both v1.2.3 and v1.3.2 of
> dnsjava, on both Windows XP and linux.
>
> --- Noel


---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: Resolving MXs

Posted by Mark Imel <ja...@imelshire.com>.
Thanks for the response Noel,

Its not clear to me that just letting the dns library try again solves the
problem.  I'm having this problem with a number of domains and as a result,
getting a lot of emails bounced back as undeliverable due to this reason.

To me, it seems like either i've really messed up my config, or its a bug
with the DNSServer class.  And after stepping through the code, i'm leaning
towards the latter.

IMHO (i'm just a james-newbie, so i'm quite likely to be mistaken), i feel
that if the DNS records come back with no answers, but some authoritative
sources for MX records, those returned authoritative sources should be
queried instead of querying the exact same source.

Regards,
--mark

BTW: I'm using the dns 1.2.3 which is compatible with James2.1.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com>
To: "James Users List" <ja...@jakarta.apache.org>
Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 1:32 AM
Subject: RE: Resolving MXs


> Mark,
>
> Are you using the version of dnsjava that came with James, or the newer
> version?  Those are typically transient.  I've seen 25 of them since
> mid-August (yes, I grepped the logs).  They invariably clear up on the
> second attempt.
>
> I ran the same thing, and got this:
>
> $ java -cp dnsjava-1.3.2.jar dig hotmail.com mx
> ; java dig 0.0
> ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: STATUS, status: NOERROR, id: 25218
> ;; flags: qr rd ra ; qd: 1 an: 4 au: 4 ad: 14
> ;; QUESTIONS:
> ;;      hotmail.com., type = MX, class = IN
>
> ;; ANSWERS:
> hotmail.com.    3248 IN MX              5 mx2.hotmail.com.
> hotmail.com.    3248 IN MX              5 mx3.hotmail.com.
> hotmail.com.    3248 IN MX              5 mx4.hotmail.com.
> hotmail.com.    3248 IN MX              5 mx1.hotmail.com.
>
> ;; AUTHORITY RECORDS:
> hotmail.com.    63491 IN NS             ns1.hotmail.com.
> hotmail.com.    63491 IN NS             NS2.hotmail.com.
> hotmail.com.    63491 IN NS             NS3.hotmail.com.
> hotmail.com.    63491 IN NS             NS4.hotmail.com.
>
> ;; ADDITIONAL RECORDS:
> mx2.hotmail.com.        3248 IN A               65.54.254.145
> mx2.hotmail.com.        3248 IN A               65.54.252.230
> mx2.hotmail.com.        3248 IN A               65.54.166.230
> mx3.hotmail.com.        3248 IN A               65.54.254.140
> mx3.hotmail.com.        3248 IN A               65.54.253.99
> mx4.hotmail.com.        3248 IN A               65.54.254.151
> mx4.hotmail.com.        3248 IN A               65.54.253.230
> mx1.hotmail.com.        3248 IN A               65.54.254.129
> mx1.hotmail.com.        3248 IN A               65.54.252.99
> mx1.hotmail.com.        3248 IN A               65.54.166.99
> ns1.hotmail.com.        63491 IN A              216.200.206.140
> NS2.hotmail.com.        63491 IN A              216.200.206.139
> NS3.hotmail.com.        63491 IN A              209.185.130.68
> NS4.hotmail.com.        63491 IN A              64.4.29.24
>
> ;; done (405 bytes)
>
> I was able to reproduce those results with both v1.2.3 and v1.3.2 of
> dnsjava, on both Windows XP and linux.
>
> --- Noel
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: james-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: james-user-help@jakarta.apache.org
>


---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: james-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
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RE: Resolving MXs

Posted by "Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com>.
Mark,

Are you using the version of dnsjava that came with James, or the newer
version?  Those are typically transient.  I've seen 25 of them since
mid-August (yes, I grepped the logs).  They invariably clear up on the
second attempt.

I ran the same thing, and got this:

$ java -cp dnsjava-1.3.2.jar dig hotmail.com mx
; java dig 0.0
;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: STATUS, status: NOERROR, id: 25218
;; flags: qr rd ra ; qd: 1 an: 4 au: 4 ad: 14
;; QUESTIONS:
;;      hotmail.com., type = MX, class = IN

;; ANSWERS:
hotmail.com.    3248 IN MX              5 mx2.hotmail.com.
hotmail.com.    3248 IN MX              5 mx3.hotmail.com.
hotmail.com.    3248 IN MX              5 mx4.hotmail.com.
hotmail.com.    3248 IN MX              5 mx1.hotmail.com.

;; AUTHORITY RECORDS:
hotmail.com.    63491 IN NS             ns1.hotmail.com.
hotmail.com.    63491 IN NS             NS2.hotmail.com.
hotmail.com.    63491 IN NS             NS3.hotmail.com.
hotmail.com.    63491 IN NS             NS4.hotmail.com.

;; ADDITIONAL RECORDS:
mx2.hotmail.com.        3248 IN A               65.54.254.145
mx2.hotmail.com.        3248 IN A               65.54.252.230
mx2.hotmail.com.        3248 IN A               65.54.166.230
mx3.hotmail.com.        3248 IN A               65.54.254.140
mx3.hotmail.com.        3248 IN A               65.54.253.99
mx4.hotmail.com.        3248 IN A               65.54.254.151
mx4.hotmail.com.        3248 IN A               65.54.253.230
mx1.hotmail.com.        3248 IN A               65.54.254.129
mx1.hotmail.com.        3248 IN A               65.54.252.99
mx1.hotmail.com.        3248 IN A               65.54.166.99
ns1.hotmail.com.        63491 IN A              216.200.206.140
NS2.hotmail.com.        63491 IN A              216.200.206.139
NS3.hotmail.com.        63491 IN A              209.185.130.68
NS4.hotmail.com.        63491 IN A              64.4.29.24

;; done (405 bytes)

I was able to reproduce those results with both v1.2.3 and v1.3.2 of
dnsjava, on both Windows XP and linux.

	--- Noel


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