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Posted to users@spamassassin.apache.org by Marc Perkel <ma...@perkel.com> on 2010/01/22 22:58:34 UTC
Should I block Experian/Free Credit Report
Generally I'm paid to protect my customers from fraud scams. Does that
include fraud scams that are advertised on TV? The Experian/Free Credit
Report is such a scam and I was personally ripped off by them and I'm
thinking about blocking their email. What they do isn't any different
than a 419 nigerian scam.
Thoughts?
Re: Should I block Experian/Free Credit Report
Posted by Ned Slider <ne...@unixmail.co.uk>.
R-Elists wrote:
>
>
>> The spam/ham decision is always in the eye of the beholder.
>> One persons spam is another ones ham.
>>
>>
>> /Per Jessen, Zürich
>>
>>
>
> Per,
>
> you are right!
>
> i am seeing you filling out those free credit report URL's frequently...
> :-)
>
> yet...
>
> the thing really is, i havent figured how to block from them other than
> Bayes, or IP
>
> and the IP thing is in full... no recourse...
>
Only if blocking at smtp time.
Write a rule and give it a score.
> so, then i would have to determine is the ip blocks had any legit traffic...
>
> since this is getting marginally OT, what i think we might consider focusing
> on is this and it is realistically for Spam-L
>
> if a company advertises on the edge of being scammers publically, should we
> trust those same types of emails...
>
> i think not...
>
> so then the On Topic thing is, how do we best deal with them in
> Spamassassin...
>
Again, write a rule and give it a score. If you don't know how, post an
example message to pastebin and others will show you how.
> JDow hit is on the head with Bayes and other SA rules / tools...
>
> - rh
>
>
RE: Should I block Experian/Free Credit Report
Posted by Per Jessen <pe...@computer.org>.
R-Elists wrote:
>> The spam/ham decision is always in the eye of the beholder.
>> One persons spam is another ones ham.
>>
>>
>> /Per Jessen, Zürich
>>
>>
>
> Per,
>
> you are right!
>
> i am seeing you filling out those free credit report URL's
> frequently... :-)
>
Fortunately, I have yet to see any of those.
> so then the On Topic thing is, how do we best deal with them in
> Spamassassin...
I see no problem in catching them - the OPs question was whether to do
so or not, I think.
/Per Jessen, Zürich
RE: Should I block Experian/Free Credit Report
Posted by R-Elists <li...@abbacomm.net>.
>
> The spam/ham decision is always in the eye of the beholder.
> One persons spam is another ones ham.
>
>
> /Per Jessen, Zürich
>
>
Per,
you are right!
i am seeing you filling out those free credit report URL's frequently...
:-)
yet...
the thing really is, i havent figured how to block from them other than
Bayes, or IP
and the IP thing is in full... no recourse...
so, then i would have to determine is the ip blocks had any legit traffic...
since this is getting marginally OT, what i think we might consider focusing
on is this and it is realistically for Spam-L
if a company advertises on the edge of being scammers publically, should we
trust those same types of emails...
i think not...
so then the On Topic thing is, how do we best deal with them in
Spamassassin...
JDow hit is on the head with Bayes and other SA rules / tools...
- rh
RE: Should I block Experian/Free Credit Report
Posted by Per Jessen <pe...@computer.org>.
R-Elists wrote:
>
> Per,
>
>> Must be why Marc asked the list too :-)
>
> so, that is why you responded?
>
> are you the uninformed, or the unqualified? or both?
>
> ;->
Nah, I leave that to others.
>>
>> But seriously, in a case like this, who better to ask than
>> the people you are serving?
>>
>
> but seriously, *all* necessary things considered to make a
> determination, do the people that one is serving have *all* that it
> takes to make that determination...
The spam/ham decision is always in the eye of the beholder. One persons
spam is another ones ham.
/Per Jessen, Zürich
RE: Should I block Experian/Free Credit Report
Posted by R-Elists <li...@abbacomm.net>.
Per,
> Must be why Marc asked the list too :-)
so, that is why you responded?
are you the uninformed, or the unqualified? or both?
;->
>
> But seriously, in a case like this, who better to ask than
> the people you are serving?
>
>
but seriously, *all* necessary things considered to make a determination, do
the people that one is serving have *all* that it takes to make that
determination...
if they dont, then forget them, do you?
:-)
and do you have a comprehensive solution ready to go that doesnt block
potentially good emails from the credit blessing organization bottom
feeders, who will buy and sell pert. info from virutally anyone
- rh
RE: Should I block Experian/Free Credit Report
Posted by Per Jessen <pe...@computer.org>.
R-Elists wrote:
>>
>> Ask your customers - block the ads for a while and see if
>> anyone complains.
>>
>>
>> /Per Jessen, Zürich
>>
>>
>
> that's right, experts should always ask the uninformed or unqualified.
> ;-)
Must be why Marc asked the list too :-)
But seriously, in a case like this, who better to ask than the people
you are serving?
/Per Jessen, Zürich
RE: Should I block Experian/Free Credit Report
Posted by R-Elists <li...@abbacomm.net>.
>
> Ask your customers - block the ads for a while and see if
> anyone complains.
>
>
> /Per Jessen, Zürich
>
>
that's right, experts should always ask the uninformed or unqualified.
;-)
- rh
Re: Should I block Experian/Free Credit Report
Posted by Per Jessen <pe...@computer.org>.
Marc Perkel wrote:
> Generally I'm paid to protect my customers from fraud scams. Does that
> include fraud scams that are advertised on TV? The Experian/Free
> Credit Report is such a scam and I was personally ripped off by them
> and I'm thinking about blocking their email. What they do isn't any
> different than a 419 nigerian scam.
>
> Thoughts?
Ask your customers - block the ads for a while and see if anyone
complains.
/Per Jessen, Zürich
Re: [SPAM:9.6] Should I block Experian/Free Credit Report
Posted by Christian Brel <br...@copperproductions.co.uk>.
On Fri, 22 Jan 2010 13:58:34 -0800
Marc Perkel <ma...@perkel.com> wrote:
> Generally I'm paid to protect my customers from fraud scams. Does
> that include fraud scams that are advertised on TV? The Experian/Free
> Credit Report is such a scam and I was personally ripped off by them
> and I'm thinking about blocking their email. What they do isn't any
> different than a 419 nigerian scam.
>
> Thoughts?
>
>
Experian, the 'free' trial that takes your credit card details and all
attempts to cancel still sees them trying to debit the card.
Ironically, in the UK you can get a copy of your credit report from
Experian by post for £2 without providing any card details. It's been
this way since the days they were CCN Systems. For a company managing
personal financial data their desire to debit cards without
authorisation surprised me, and the follow up spam they kick out after
you cancel is something else.
Personally I would class them as a data abuser and I have them blocked
in a private dnsbl that I have extended to 'cheetah' as well, which I
believe is their 'esp'.
FWIW I have a couple of 'Virgin' PAYG Mastercards which I keep active
for such places that require valid card details. These are very
effective for making sure any mainsleaze scammers get nothing in return
for what they purport to offer for free.
RE: Should I block Experian/Free Credit Report
Posted by R-Elists <li...@abbacomm.net>.
> This is a tricky decision. What they Free Credit Report /
> Experian is doing is fraudulent. Although they aren't
> stealing they way phishers are, just because they aren't just
> as bad. In fact I suspect they rip off far more people than
> phishers do. I'm thinking about black listing them but if I
> do it will block them on everyone who uses the hostkarma
> blacklist. It's a decision like the Google in China decision.
> These people are really evil. But they are entrenched in
> government protection.
>
>
Marc,
block the fraud pukes
they send the same emails over and over and over to clients.
train them as spam in bayes too.
- rh
Re: Should I block Experian/Free Credit Report
Posted by Marc Perkel <ma...@perkel.com>.
Alex wrote:
> Hi,
>
>
>> This is a tricky decision. What they Free Credit Report / Experian is doing
>> is fraudulent. Although they aren't stealing they way phishers are, just
>>
>
> Have they ever been prosecuted or fined for this fraud?
>
> What are the mail servers and address information they use? I'd like
> to monitor more closely mail from those domains on my systems so I may
> have some info to help me determine their threat here.
>
> I wish I could say that you have more of an advisory role here, rather
> than the definitive answer, but I think this one, along with
> pbconferences.com, busenetwork.com, edmta.net, mobilelifeapps.com,
> vresp.com, smartblast-direct.com, prgsvc.com and vemmabuilder.com
> should all be blocked and are currently not.
>
> Thanks,
> Alex
>
>
I make my own decisions. I don't need to wait for the government to
determine something that is clearly fraud.
Re: Should I block Experian/Free Credit Report
Posted by LuKreme <kr...@kreme.com>.
On 23-Jan-10 18:54, Alex wrote:
> Have they ever been prosecuted or fined for this fraud?
They are a government protected triumvirate Monopoly, and as such, are
essentially untouchable. You have as much luck as complaining to the
fascists at TSA or ICE.
--
"Woof bloody woof."
Re: Should I block Experian/Free Credit Report
Posted by jdow <jd...@earthlink.net>.
From: "Alex" <my...@gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, 2010/January/23 17:54
> Hi,
>
>> This is a tricky decision. What they Free Credit Report / Experian is
>> doing
>> is fraudulent. Although they aren't stealing they way phishers are, just
>
> Have they ever been prosecuted or fined for this fraud?
>
> What are the mail servers and address information they use? I'd like
> to monitor more closely mail from those domains on my systems so I may
> have some info to help me determine their threat here.
>
> I wish I could say that you have more of an advisory role here, rather
> than the definitive answer, but I think this one, along with
> pbconferences.com, busenetwork.com, edmta.net, mobilelifeapps.com,
> vresp.com, smartblast-direct.com, prgsvc.com and vemmabuilder.com
> should all be blocked and are currently not.
If there is any doubt about a site that is whitelisted then remove it from
the whitelist. That does not mean they are blacklisted. That means their
emails survive by Bayes and other considerations only.
Marc can wash his hands of Experian that way and Bayes will tag them quite
nicely.
{^_^}
Re: Should I block Experian/Free Credit Report
Posted by Alex <my...@gmail.com>.
Hi,
> This is a tricky decision. What they Free Credit Report / Experian is doing
> is fraudulent. Although they aren't stealing they way phishers are, just
Have they ever been prosecuted or fined for this fraud?
What are the mail servers and address information they use? I'd like
to monitor more closely mail from those domains on my systems so I may
have some info to help me determine their threat here.
I wish I could say that you have more of an advisory role here, rather
than the definitive answer, but I think this one, along with
pbconferences.com, busenetwork.com, edmta.net, mobilelifeapps.com,
vresp.com, smartblast-direct.com, prgsvc.com and vemmabuilder.com
should all be blocked and are currently not.
Thanks,
Alex
Re: Should I block Experian/Free Credit Report
Posted by Kevin Golding <ke...@caomhin.demon.co.uk>.
In article <4B...@perkel.com>, Marc Perkel <ma...@perkel.com>
writes
>This is a tricky decision. What they Free Credit Report / Experian is
>doing is fraudulent. Although they aren't stealing they way phishers
>are, just because they aren't just as bad. In fact I suspect they rip
>off far more people than phishers do. I'm thinking about black listing
>them but if I do it will block them on everyone who uses the hostkarma
>blacklist. It's a decision like the Google in China decision. These
>people are really evil. But they are entrenched in government protection.
I'm no fan of them but as a company they're probably big enough within
the UK market that they have legit traffic. But then I wouldn't use
Hostkarma to block, only score, so I somewhat think if you do blacklist
them it won't make much difference.
That said, surely if they're currently on White you've put them there
for a reason so your Brown list is more suitable for them than Black.
If you have a halfway step then surely most list changes would go
through that while assessing the impact.
Kevin
Re: Should I block Experian/Free Credit Report
Posted by Marc Perkel <ma...@perkel.com>.
jdow wrote:
> From: "Marc Perkel" <ma...@perkel.com>
> Sent: Friday, 2010/January/22 13:58
>
>
>> Generally I'm paid to protect my customers from fraud scams. Does
>> that include fraud scams that are advertised on TV? The Experian/Free
>> Credit Report is such a scam and I was personally ripped off by them
>> and I'm thinking about blocking their email. What they do isn't any
>> different than a 419 nigerian scam.
>
> I have them blocked here because they have sent me two totally
> unsolicited emails that got through hostkarma whitelist. They were
> on my dubious list because of stories I've heard about them. This
> places them on my specific blacklist. This is a particularly large
> problem given their large position in the credit reporting industry.
> I rate than as Foxes running the hen house.
>
> {^_^}
>
This is a tricky decision. What they Free Credit Report / Experian is
doing is fraudulent. Although they aren't stealing they way phishers
are, just because they aren't just as bad. In fact I suspect they rip
off far more people than phishers do. I'm thinking about black listing
them but if I do it will block them on everyone who uses the hostkarma
blacklist. It's a decision like the Google in China decision. These
people are really evil. But they are entrenched in government protection.
Re: Should I block Experian/Free Credit Report
Posted by jdow <jd...@earthlink.net>.
From: "R-Elists" <li...@abbacomm.net>
Sent: Saturday, 2010/January/23 09:57
>
>>
>> I have them blocked here because they have sent me two
>> totally unsolicited emails that got through hostkarma
>> whitelist. They were on my dubious list because of stories
>> I've heard about them. This places them on my specific
>> blacklist. This is a particularly large problem given their
>> large position in the credit reporting industry.
>> I rate than as Foxes running the hen house.
>>
>> {^_^}
>>
>
> Good Gurl!
>
> you may have a cookie!
>
> :-)
>
> - rh
Sorry, didn't take. I have off-site cookies blocked.
{^_-}
RE: Should I block Experian/Free Credit Report
Posted by R-Elists <li...@abbacomm.net>.
>
> I have them blocked here because they have sent me two
> totally unsolicited emails that got through hostkarma
> whitelist. They were on my dubious list because of stories
> I've heard about them. This places them on my specific
> blacklist. This is a particularly large problem given their
> large position in the credit reporting industry.
> I rate than as Foxes running the hen house.
>
> {^_^}
>
Good Gurl!
you may have a cookie!
:-)
- rh
Re: Should I block Experian/Free Credit Report
Posted by jdow <jd...@earthlink.net>.
From: "Marc Perkel" <ma...@perkel.com>
Sent: Friday, 2010/January/22 13:58
> Generally I'm paid to protect my customers from fraud scams. Does that
> include fraud scams that are advertised on TV? The Experian/Free Credit
> Report is such a scam and I was personally ripped off by them and I'm
> thinking about blocking their email. What they do isn't any different
> than a 419 nigerian scam.
I have them blocked here because they have sent me two totally
unsolicited emails that got through hostkarma whitelist. They were
on my dubious list because of stories I've heard about them. This
places them on my specific blacklist. This is a particularly large
problem given their large position in the credit reporting industry.
I rate than as Foxes running the hen house.
{^_^}
RE: [SA] Should I block Experian/Free Credit Report
Posted by R-Elists <li...@abbacomm.net>.
> From: Adam Katz
>
> I can definitely relate. My $10 Titan Peeler is less
> effective than a rusty old pocketknife, and it somehow cost
> me $43 (had to buy two, shipping was about 2x the "cost").
> Not only that, but I never saw the total price until the
> order had finished, and I couldn't cancel the order (even
> over the phone because it had "already shipped" despite that
> I called within a business hour of the order and despite that
> my "your order has been shipped" email was sent two days after that.
>
> Lesson: do not order through a website or phone number listed on TV.
> For anything. A quick web search for the product by name
> will easily find a reputable reseller (never mind those
> claims of exclusivity) that will give you a similar price on
> the same product. The search will likely also give you
> myriads of reasons to not buy the product/service (even from
> a reseller) and/or to go with a competitor.
>
> That said...
>
> I would not block these companies' email unless they fail to
> follow the rules of opt-out and the like. It may be seedy
> and even a scam, but if they're following the rules of
> responsible email, it's not spam in my book.
>
> Which is to say: keep a close eye on them and nail them hard
> when they fail to play by those rules, which I figure is quite likely.
>
Adam,
i am confused...
you just said you were scammed by an organization
then you say dont block scammers phishing emails if they are good email/spam
netizens ???
wow.
you do not have to allow yourself (or others) to be scammed you know and you
could have called the credit card company and filed a complaint and got your
money back.
never use your debit card for risky transactions no matter what anyone says
about being covered with them too.
yes, Perkel, block the scammers !!!
it is the fine line of the law phishing.
- rh
Re: [SA] Should I block Experian/Free Credit Report
Posted by Adam Katz <an...@khopis.com>.
Marc Perkel wrote:
> Generally I'm paid to protect my customers from fraud scams. Does
> that include fraud scams that are advertised on TV? The
> Experian/Free Credit Report is such a scam and I was personally
> ripped off by them and I'm thinking about blocking their email.
> What they do isn't any different than a 419 nigerian scam.
>
> Thoughts?
I can definitely relate. My $10 Titan Peeler is less effective than a
rusty old pocketknife, and it somehow cost me $43 (had to buy two,
shipping was about 2x the "cost"). Not only that, but I never saw the
total price until the order had finished, and I couldn't cancel the
order (even over the phone because it had "already shipped" despite
that I called within a business hour of the order and despite that my
"your order has been shipped" email was sent two days after that.
Lesson: do not order through a website or phone number listed on TV.
For anything. A quick web search for the product by name will easily
find a reputable reseller (never mind those claims of exclusivity)
that will give you a similar price on the same product. The search
will likely also give you myriads of reasons to not buy the
product/service (even from a reseller) and/or to go with a competitor.
That said...
I would not block these companies' email unless they fail to follow
the rules of opt-out and the like. It may be seedy and even a scam,
but if they're following the rules of responsible email, it's not spam
in my book.
Which is to say: keep a close eye on them and nail them hard when
they fail to play by those rules, which I figure is quite likely.