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Posted to derby-user@db.apache.org by "Michael J. Segel" <ms...@segel.com> on 2005/10/20 05:29:13 UTC
Derby Development and IDEs?
Sorry if this is slightly off topic, but since the individuals on this list
are doing actual development with Derby, thought I might be able to get a
decent survey on what combinations seem to work best....
I've been "playing" around with the following java IDEs: NetBeans, Eclipse,
and Websphere App Dev (Based on Eclipse).
Now I realize that choosing an IDE is pretty personal, but I hope we can be
honest about what works and what doesn't.
Now I've used to use Kawa, way back when, so if someone has another
recommendation, please feel free to step up.
NetBeans: This is an OpenSource IDE that I believe is bundled and
downloadable from the Sun Java site. Has a hook to PointBase, didn't see
anything to allow Derby or any other database.
Positives: Nice look and feel, easy to get around, however, when I want to
expand the code window to a full screen for easier editing, not that straight
forward.
Negatives: No easy way to add in Derby.
They lock their generated code sections which makes life a little more
difficult. I'm not really happy with how they auto generate some of their
code. Makes things a little difficult to get things done. In some cases, hand
written GUI code is still faster to generate.
Note: A simple example is if you try to generate some code that is similar to
the tutorials. Not that easy to do. ( I think one example would be if you
wanted to set an action listener for each menu where each menu item would
modify a status string.)
Eclipse 3.1: This is an opensource Apache project driven IDE. Lots of nice
bells and whistles, albeit a little rough around the edges. My Linux version
craps out quite a bit, while I haven't pushed the window's version that hard.
Pluses: Its free.
It allows for visual development of GUI elements.
Great RDBMs connectivity. Derby, Informix, DB2... (Ok I'll even mention
Oracle...;-).
Has all the built in features that would allow one to write good code and
test against a local database for Unit testing/ Bean Testing.
Has the ability to also deal with architecting issues (UML)...
Doesn't block you from adding your own code in to the generated code.
Negatives...
1) Used primarily on my Linux box. Flakes out and dumps on me a couple times
a day. (Could be my set up, but I'm going to go out on a limb and say that
there's still some gaps.)
2) Location of some of the components not in the ideal place. Yet easy to
expand the code window. Note you can move some of the components to different
views so that take's care of some of the problems. With WS App Dev sharing
some of the same heritage, see my comparison below...
Websphere AD: Based on the same technology as Eclipse. Seems to be more
stable. (I only have a window's copy.) Easiest to work with. Allowing more
freedom in mixing my built gui stuff with their base frames. (This is true of
Eclipse.) I haven't tried importing my Derby stuff to that platform, (next
step) but Websphere is Eclipse.
A good example would be a Mercedes E55 and then a Mercedes E55 AMG (AMG is an
aftermarket company that tunes up your Mercedes to a higher performance rig.
Adds about 10-20K to the base price of the car, if not more.... ;-)
Bottom line. I felt that there was enough of a difference to justify the price
difference between WS and Eclipse.
Ok having said all of that, what other tools are out there and what are your
opinions of them?
As a consultant, I'll use what ever gets toss'd at me. However, I'm open to
all ideas that make sense.
Again, while this may be a little off topic, I think it would aid the group in
promoting good working enviornments for Derby development.
I realize that my experiences come from trying to deal with these IDES and get
up to speed in a short time. Other's experiences and insights will vary.
(Thats why I'm trying to gain a concensus.... ;-)
Cheers!
-Mike
--
Michael Segel
Principal
MSCC
(312) 952-8175
Re: Derby Development and IDEs?
Posted by Oy...@Sun.COM.
Michael J. Segel wrote:
> NetBeans: This is an OpenSource IDE that I believe is bundled and
> downloadable from the Sun Java site. Has a hook to PointBase, didn't see
> anything to allow Derby or any other database.
There is. You can open the "Runtime" window, right-click on Database ->
Drivers and select "Add Driver".
> Negatives: No easy way to add in Derby.
For the NetBeans 5.0 beta (which is out now), there is a Derby module
downloadable from the update center (Choose Tools -> Update Center).
--
Oyvind Bakksjo
Sun Microsystems, Database Technology Group
Trondheim, Norway
http://weblogs.java.net/blog/bakksjo/
Re: Derby Development and IDEs?
Posted by Satheesh Bandaram <sa...@Sourcery.Org>.
Check out Derby site at: http://db.apache.org/derby/integrate/misc.html
This also lists a few other GUI tools, like Cloudscape Workbench,
iSQL-Viewer, SQuirreL_SQL.
Satheesh
Michael J. Segel wrote:
>Sorry if this is slightly off topic, but since the individuals on this list
>are doing actual development with Derby, thought I might be able to get a
>decent survey on what combinations seem to work best....
>
>I've been "playing" around with the following java IDEs: NetBeans, Eclipse,
>and Websphere App Dev (Based on Eclipse).
>
>Now I realize that choosing an IDE is pretty personal, but I hope we can be
>honest about what works and what doesn't.
>
>Now I've used to use Kawa, way back when, so if someone has another
>recommendation, please feel free to step up.
>
>NetBeans: This is an OpenSource IDE that I believe is bundled and
>downloadable from the Sun Java site. Has a hook to PointBase, didn't see
>anything to allow Derby or any other database.
>
>Positives: Nice look and feel, easy to get around, however, when I want to
>expand the code window to a full screen for easier editing, not that straight
>forward.
>
>Negatives: No easy way to add in Derby.
> They lock their generated code sections which makes life a little more
>difficult. I'm not really happy with how they auto generate some of their
>code. Makes things a little difficult to get things done. In some cases, hand
>written GUI code is still faster to generate.
>
>Note: A simple example is if you try to generate some code that is similar to
>the tutorials. Not that easy to do. ( I think one example would be if you
>wanted to set an action listener for each menu where each menu item would
>modify a status string.)
>
>Eclipse 3.1: This is an opensource Apache project driven IDE. Lots of nice
>bells and whistles, albeit a little rough around the edges. My Linux version
>craps out quite a bit, while I haven't pushed the window's version that hard.
>
>Pluses: Its free.
> It allows for visual development of GUI elements.
> Great RDBMs connectivity. Derby, Informix, DB2... (Ok I'll even mention
>Oracle...;-).
> Has all the built in features that would allow one to write good code and
>test against a local database for Unit testing/ Bean Testing.
> Has the ability to also deal with architecting issues (UML)...
> Doesn't block you from adding your own code in to the generated code.
>
>Negatives...
> 1) Used primarily on my Linux box. Flakes out and dumps on me a couple times
>a day. (Could be my set up, but I'm going to go out on a limb and say that
>there's still some gaps.)
> 2) Location of some of the components not in the ideal place. Yet easy to
>expand the code window. Note you can move some of the components to different
>views so that take's care of some of the problems. With WS App Dev sharing
>some of the same heritage, see my comparison below...
>
>Websphere AD: Based on the same technology as Eclipse. Seems to be more
>stable. (I only have a window's copy.) Easiest to work with. Allowing more
>freedom in mixing my built gui stuff with their base frames. (This is true of
>Eclipse.) I haven't tried importing my Derby stuff to that platform, (next
>step) but Websphere is Eclipse.
>
>A good example would be a Mercedes E55 and then a Mercedes E55 AMG (AMG is an
>aftermarket company that tunes up your Mercedes to a higher performance rig.
>Adds about 10-20K to the base price of the car, if not more.... ;-)
>
>Bottom line. I felt that there was enough of a difference to justify the price
>difference between WS and Eclipse.
>
>
>Ok having said all of that, what other tools are out there and what are your
>opinions of them?
>
>As a consultant, I'll use what ever gets toss'd at me. However, I'm open to
>all ideas that make sense.
>
>Again, while this may be a little off topic, I think it would aid the group in
>promoting good working enviornments for Derby development.
>
>I realize that my experiences come from trying to deal with these IDES and get
>up to speed in a short time. Other's experiences and insights will vary.
>(Thats why I'm trying to gain a concensus.... ;-)
>
>Cheers!
>
>-Mike
>
>
Re: Derby Development and IDEs?
Posted by Dy...@Sun.COM.
"Michael J. Segel" <ms...@segel.com> writes:
> NetBeans: This is an OpenSource IDE that I believe is bundled and
> downloadable from the Sun Java site. Has a hook to PointBase, didn't see
> anything to allow Derby or any other database.
Comming in the next release...
> Positives: Nice look and feel, easy to get around, however, when I want to
> expand the code window to a full screen for easier editing, not that straight
> forward.
Double-click on the code window tab
--
dt
Re: Derby Development and IDEs?
Posted by "Michael J. Segel" <ms...@segel.com>.
On Wednesday 19 October 2005 22:44, David W. Van Couvering wrote:
> I used to work with Kava and I really liked it. Too bad they missed the
> open source wave and instead got sucked into some big company -- I can't
> remember who any more. It's nice that the two main IDEs for Java are
> both free and open source. No more sneaking VC++ CDs from your friends'
> cube...
>
> David
>
VC++? Outch. (Bad memories.)
Sorry but I'd prefer vi and a white board. (And the occasional use of a
profiler and gdb ;-)
I liked how NetBeans had some prebuilt forms like MDI. It could be useful to
have a prebuilt database window form, along with some DB extensions to the
Swing components.
(Anyone still play with Informix's 4GL?)
Also I do like the way NetBeans has the ability for someone to write blocks of
code that gets inserted in to their generated code. Again usefull for writing
possible business logic (before and after field code....)
So it looks like we're down to 3 IDEs. Also I notice that if you start with
NetBeans, you have to stick with netbeans when you develop GUI code?
I think you're going to see a need for some simple tools that can make it
easier to port apps to Derby that will improve its acceptance. ;-)
--
Michael Segel
Principal
MSCC
(312) 952-8175
Re: Derby Development and IDEs?
Posted by "David W. Van Couvering" <Da...@Sun.COM>.
Let's see, my thoughts: NetBeans and Eclipse are definitely the big ones
out there, and you can expect to see strong support and ongoing
innovation. There are those of us on the Derby team that are working
with NetBeans to improve Derby support; I expect there are also folks
who are working with the Eclipse folks to improve Derby support.
I used to work with Kava and I really liked it. Too bad they missed the
open source wave and instead got sucked into some big company -- I can't
remember who any more. It's nice that the two main IDEs for Java are
both free and open source. No more sneaking VC++ CDs from your friends'
cube...
David
Michael J. Segel wrote:
> Sorry if this is slightly off topic, but since the individuals on this list
> are doing actual development with Derby, thought I might be able to get a
> decent survey on what combinations seem to work best....
>
> I've been "playing" around with the following java IDEs: NetBeans, Eclipse,
> and Websphere App Dev (Based on Eclipse).
>
> Now I realize that choosing an IDE is pretty personal, but I hope we can be
> honest about what works and what doesn't.
>
> Now I've used to use Kawa, way back when, so if someone has another
> recommendation, please feel free to step up.
>
> NetBeans: This is an OpenSource IDE that I believe is bundled and
> downloadable from the Sun Java site. Has a hook to PointBase, didn't see
> anything to allow Derby or any other database.
>
> Positives: Nice look and feel, easy to get around, however, when I want to
> expand the code window to a full screen for easier editing, not that straight
> forward.
>
> Negatives: No easy way to add in Derby.
> They lock their generated code sections which makes life a little more
> difficult. I'm not really happy with how they auto generate some of their
> code. Makes things a little difficult to get things done. In some cases, hand
> written GUI code is still faster to generate.
>
> Note: A simple example is if you try to generate some code that is similar to
> the tutorials. Not that easy to do. ( I think one example would be if you
> wanted to set an action listener for each menu where each menu item would
> modify a status string.)
>
> Eclipse 3.1: This is an opensource Apache project driven IDE. Lots of nice
> bells and whistles, albeit a little rough around the edges. My Linux version
> craps out quite a bit, while I haven't pushed the window's version that hard.
>
> Pluses: Its free.
> It allows for visual development of GUI elements.
> Great RDBMs connectivity. Derby, Informix, DB2... (Ok I'll even mention
> Oracle...;-).
> Has all the built in features that would allow one to write good code and
> test against a local database for Unit testing/ Bean Testing.
> Has the ability to also deal with architecting issues (UML)...
> Doesn't block you from adding your own code in to the generated code.
>
> Negatives...
> 1) Used primarily on my Linux box. Flakes out and dumps on me a couple times
> a day. (Could be my set up, but I'm going to go out on a limb and say that
> there's still some gaps.)
> 2) Location of some of the components not in the ideal place. Yet easy to
> expand the code window. Note you can move some of the components to different
> views so that take's care of some of the problems. With WS App Dev sharing
> some of the same heritage, see my comparison below...
>
> Websphere AD: Based on the same technology as Eclipse. Seems to be more
> stable. (I only have a window's copy.) Easiest to work with. Allowing more
> freedom in mixing my built gui stuff with their base frames. (This is true of
> Eclipse.) I haven't tried importing my Derby stuff to that platform, (next
> step) but Websphere is Eclipse.
>
> A good example would be a Mercedes E55 and then a Mercedes E55 AMG (AMG is an
> aftermarket company that tunes up your Mercedes to a higher performance rig.
> Adds about 10-20K to the base price of the car, if not more.... ;-)
>
> Bottom line. I felt that there was enough of a difference to justify the price
> difference between WS and Eclipse.
>
>
> Ok having said all of that, what other tools are out there and what are your
> opinions of them?
>
> As a consultant, I'll use what ever gets toss'd at me. However, I'm open to
> all ideas that make sense.
>
> Again, while this may be a little off topic, I think it would aid the group in
> promoting good working enviornments for Derby development.
>
> I realize that my experiences come from trying to deal with these IDES and get
> up to speed in a short time. Other's experiences and insights will vary.
> (Thats why I'm trying to gain a concensus.... ;-)
>
> Cheers!
>
> -Mike
Re: Derby Development and IDEs?
Posted by Brian Bonner <br...@paraware.com>.
IBM RAD 6 is probably more on par with eclipse 3.1 than wsad 5.1.2 since
rad and eclipse run off similar codebases.
If given a choice, I'd prefer RAD 6 to WSAD 5.1.2 for eclipse 3.1
compatability, better ant support, etc. I'm not sure the derby plugin
will work with wsad, but I haven't tried and can't recall the base for
wsad.
I suspect your using wtp 0.71 with eclipse 3.1?
Brian
On Thu, 20 Oct 2005 12:25 am, Michael J. Segel wrote:
> Sorry if this is slightly off topic, but since the individuals on this
> list
> are doing actual development with Derby, thought I might be able to get
> a
> decent survey on what combinations seem to work best....
>
> I've been "playing" around with the following java IDEs: NetBeans,
> Eclipse,
> and Websphere App Dev (Based on Eclipse).
>
> Now I realize that choosing an IDE is pretty personal, but I hope we
> can be
> honest about what works and what doesn't.
>
> Now I've used to use Kawa, way back when, so if someone has another
> recommendation, please feel free to step up.
>
> NetBeans: This is an OpenSource IDE that I believe is bundled and
> downloadable from the Sun Java site. Has a hook to PointBase, didn't
> see
> anything to allow Derby or any other database.
>
> Positives: Nice look and feel, easy to get around, however, when I want
> to
> expand the code window to a full screen for easier editing, not that
> straight
> forward.
>
> Negatives: No easy way to add in Derby.
> They lock their generated code sections which makes life a little
> more
> difficult. I'm not really happy with how they auto generate some of
> their
> code. Makes things a little difficult to get things done. In some
> cases, hand
> written GUI code is still faster to generate.
>
> Note: A simple example is if you try to generate some code that is
> similar to
> the tutorials. Not that easy to do. ( I think one example would be if
> you
> wanted to set an action listener for each menu where each menu item
> would
> modify a status string.)
>
> Eclipse 3.1: This is an opensource Apache project driven IDE. Lots of
> nice
> bells and whistles, albeit a little rough around the edges. My Linux
> version
> craps out quite a bit, while I haven't pushed the window's version that
> hard.
>
> Pluses: Its free.
> It allows for visual development of GUI elements.
> Great RDBMs connectivity. Derby, Informix, DB2... (Ok I'll even
> mention
> Oracle...;-).
> Has all the built in features that would allow one to write good code
> and
> test against a local database for Unit testing/ Bean Testing.
> Has the ability to also deal with architecting issues (UML)...
> Doesn't block you from adding your own code in to the generated code.
>
> Negatives...
> 1) Used primarily on my Linux box. Flakes out and dumps on me a couple
> times
> a day. (Could be my set up, but I'm going to go out on a limb and say
> that
> there's still some gaps.)
> 2) Location of some of the components not in the ideal place. Yet easy
> to
> expand the code window. Note you can move some of the components to
> different
> views so that take's care of some of the problems. With WS App Dev
> sharing
> some of the same heritage, see my comparison below...
>
> Websphere AD: Based on the same technology as Eclipse. Seems to be more
> stable. (I only have a window's copy.) Easiest to work with. Allowing
> more
> freedom in mixing my built gui stuff with their base frames. (This is
> true of
> Eclipse.) I haven't tried importing my Derby stuff to that platform,
> (next
> step) but Websphere is Eclipse.
>
> A good example would be a Mercedes E55 and then a Mercedes E55 AMG (AMG
> is an
> aftermarket company that tunes up your Mercedes to a higher performance
> rig.
> Adds about 10-20K to the base price of the car, if not more.... ;-)
>
> Bottom line. I felt that there was enough of a difference to justify
> the price
> difference between WS and Eclipse.
>
>
> Ok having said all of that, what other tools are out there and what are
> your
> opinions of them?
>
> As a consultant, I'll use what ever gets toss'd at me. However, I'm
> open to
> all ideas that make sense.
>
> Again, while this may be a little off topic, I think it would aid the
> group in
> promoting good working enviornments for Derby development.
>
> I realize that my experiences come from trying to deal with these IDES
> and get
> up to speed in a short time. Other's experiences and insights will
> vary.
> (Thats why I'm trying to gain a concensus.... ;-)
>
> Cheers!
>
> -Mike
> --
> Michael Segel
> Principal
> MSCC
> (312) 952-8175
- Brian (mobile)