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Posted to dev@avalon.apache.org by Peter Donald <do...@apache.org> on 2001/08/06 08:42:07 UTC
[Logkit] feedback
Hi,
Heres some feedback got so far about logkit release.
* Changelog should be below files listing on download page and should also
include data like how to verify signatures
* Release should say "why" you should upgrade
* Somethings were in but not mentioned in ChangeLog (ie MemoryTarget)
* Logger.setLogTargets() should provide a method that "compliments" existing
targets (like additivity=true in log4j).
* LogTarget is a stupid name for what it does (no alternative offered)
* filters should be in org.apache.log.output.filter or similar (they are only
used by output targets)
* OutputStreamLogger should be named LoggerOutputStream
* documentation sucks (whitepaper does not list every output target or
explain concepts well enough, javadocs missing overview docs for packages and
classes)
* Why use testlet when there is junit
* why so big download (answer == tools/ext)
I think this is the most feedback I have got from a release in such a short
time.
Cheers,
Pete
*-----------------------------------------------------*
| "Faced with the choice between changing one's mind, |
| and proving that there is no need to do so - almost |
| everyone gets busy on the proof." |
| - John Kenneth Galbraith |
*-----------------------------------------------------*
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Re: [Logkit] feedback
Posted by Berin Loritsch <bl...@apache.org>.
Peter Donald wrote:
>
> > You mean your innocent this time? ;)
>
> Me innocent? I don't think so. I must have looked into the future and stole
> his ideas that way, I am a magic code monkey !! ;)
Now your being modest (uhuh, yeah).
> > Gee that helps.
>
> That was mild to some of the ire I get from some of the other zealots. Did I
> ever tell you how I was betraying Apache? That was fun ;)
It wasn't a slashdotter was it? Most of the time it's teenagers who have no
respect because they haven't contributed a single line of code that make such
statements. It's easy to criticize when you aren't contributing.
<note>
For our teenagers who are contributing, I find you guys alot more
respectful--thanks.
</note>
> > > > * filters should be in org.apache.log.output.filter or similar (they
> > > > are only used by output targets)
> >
> > -0
>
> -1
>
> Nice in theory but I like backwards compatability. *maybe* if we decide to
> make major changes between beta->stable but I am reluctent to do it at this
> stage (and probably still reluctent then).
Definitely agreed
> I could probably do a nicer summary but that will have to wait till stable
> release and time permits.
Understandable
> > > > * Why use testlet when there is junit
> >
> > We do need to remove the reference to Testlet in the release docs.
>
> Yup. Should we also remove it from webpage references or should we leave it
> as is? I reckon we leave it in for a bit and eventually remove
> links/discussion of it so that it is only linked from historic section?
Right now, the links state that Testlet has been deprecated in favor of JUnit.
> > > > * why so big download (answer == tools/ext)
> >
> > Do we want to include all that? Maybe for the Source, but not for
> > the binaries.
>
> It is only in the source downloads and I am not sure we can remove it if we
> need docs built so ... lets ignore this unless more people complain.
Um, the docs aren't that big--it would probably be best to build the docs for
the users, and leave all the rest of the stuff out of the release.
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Re: [Logkit] feedback
Posted by Peter Donald <do...@apache.org>.
On Tue, 7 Aug 2001 16:10, Berin Loritsch wrote:
> Peter Donald wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > Doh!
> >
> > I just got feedback that points out that it possible to do a
> > masquerade (sp?) attack against LogKit via something like
> >
> > getLogger().getLogTargets()[0].processEvent( myEvilEvent );
> >
> > So to fix this I suggest we deprecate Logger.getLogTargets() make it
> > return a zero sized array and instead add a "complimenting"
> > setLogTargets() as suggested below?
>
> Masquerading is bad. What does the complimenting setLogTargets() afford
> us. Won't that allow the same type of problem?
The main reason for "complimenting/additivity" (thats a really bad term but I
can't think of a better one at the moment) is that sometimes you want to say
something like log to these new targets as well as the ones that you inherit
from your parent Logger.
LogKit supports this via
final LogTarget[] inheritedTargets = logger.getLogTargets();
final LogTarget[] targets = new LogTarget[ inheritedTargets.length + 1 ];
System.arraycopy( targets, ... inheritedTargets );
targets[ 0 ] = myNewTarget;
logger.setLogTargets( targets );
It was so convoluted to allow extensibility while still keeping performance
(and minimal synchronization required). We could transform it to the
following which is simpler but can cause a slight performance impact
final LogTarget[] targets = new LogTarget[] { myNewTarget };
logger.setLogTargets( targets, true );
We could also reimplement other setLogTargets() via something like
void setLogTargets( LogTarget[] targets )
{
setLogTargets( targets, false );
}
It *seems* like a good idea but I want to let it simmer for a bit to think it
through (and make sure we don't have any other similar holes).
> > Thoughts?
> >
> > BTW I just noticed that Log4j added a MDC recently (6 hours ago) which is
>
> MDC? What's that?
Mapped Diagnostic Context (ie ContextMap) to compliment NDC or Nested
Diagnostic Context (ie ContextStack). I am interested to see how exactly it
was implemented ... I am going to have to download and check it out when I
get some spare time (like that ever happens ;]).
> > essentially our ContextMap. Also their PatternFormatter was reworked in a
> > manner similar to ours. I wonder if we will be accused of stealing this
> > time... Ahh the joy of it all.
>
> You mean your innocent this time? ;)
Me innocent? I don't think so. I must have looked into the future and stole
his ideas that way, I am a magic code monkey !! ;)
> > On Mon, 6 Aug 2001 16:42, Peter Donald wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > Heres some feedback got so far about logkit release.
> > >
> > > * Changelog should be below files listing on download page and should
> > > also include data like how to verify signatures
> > > * Release should say "why" you should upgrade
>
> +1
+1
> > > * LogTarget is a stupid name for what it does (no alternative offered)
>
> Gee that helps.
That was mild to some of the ire I get from some of the other zealots. Did I
ever tell you how I was betraying Apache? That was fun ;)
>
> > > * filters should be in org.apache.log.output.filter or similar (they
> > > are only used by output targets)
>
> -0
-1
Nice in theory but I like backwards compatability. *maybe* if we decide to
make major changes between beta->stable but I am reluctent to do it at this
stage (and probably still reluctent then).
> > > * OutputStreamLogger should be named LoggerOutputStream
>
> That makes sense +1
okay will keep "class OutputStreamLogger extends LoggerOutputStream {}"
around for a bit though.
> > > * documentation sucks (whitepaper does not list every output target or
> > > explain concepts well enough, javadocs missing overview docs for
> > > packages and classes)
>
> Can people be nicer? It does need the finishing touch.
Its a lot better than it was ! ;)
I could probably do a nicer summary but that will have to wait till stable
release and time permits.
> > > * Why use testlet when there is junit
>
> We do need to remove the reference to Testlet in the release docs.
Yup. Should we also remove it from webpage references or should we leave it
as is? I reckon we leave it in for a bit and eventually remove
links/discussion of it so that it is only linked from historic section?
> > > * why so big download (answer == tools/ext)
>
> Do we want to include all that? Maybe for the Source, but not for
> the binaries.
It is only in the source downloads and I am not sure we can remove it if we
need docs built so ... lets ignore this unless more people complain.
Cheers,
Pete
*-----------------------------------------------------*
| "Faced with the choice between changing one's mind, |
| and proving that there is no need to do so - almost |
| everyone gets busy on the proof." |
| - John Kenneth Galbraith |
*-----------------------------------------------------*
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: [Logkit] feedback
Posted by Berin Loritsch <bl...@apache.org>.
Peter Donald wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> Doh!
>
> I just got feedback that points out that it possible to do a
> masquerade (sp?) attack against LogKit via something like
>
> getLogger().getLogTargets()[0].processEvent( myEvilEvent );
>
> So to fix this I suggest we deprecate Logger.getLogTargets() make it return a
> zero sized array and instead add a "complimenting" setLogTargets() as
> suggested below?
Masquerading is bad. What does the complimenting setLogTargets() afford
us. Won't that allow the same type of problem?
>
> Thoughts?
>
> BTW I just noticed that Log4j added a MDC recently (6 hours ago) which is
MDC? What's that?
> essentially our ContextMap. Also their PatternFormatter was reworked in a
> manner similar to ours. I wonder if we will be accused of stealing this
> time... Ahh the joy of it all.
You mean your innocent this time? ;)
> On Mon, 6 Aug 2001 16:42, Peter Donald wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > Heres some feedback got so far about logkit release.
> >
> > * Changelog should be below files listing on download page and should also
> > include data like how to verify signatures
> > * Release should say "why" you should upgrade
+1
> > * LogTarget is a stupid name for what it does (no alternative offered)
Gee that helps.
> > * filters should be in org.apache.log.output.filter or similar (they are
> > only used by output targets)
-0
> > * OutputStreamLogger should be named LoggerOutputStream
That makes sense +1
> > * documentation sucks (whitepaper does not list every output target or
> > explain concepts well enough, javadocs missing overview docs for packages
> > and classes)
Can people be nicer? It does need the finishing touch.
> > * Why use testlet when there is junit
We do need to remove the reference to Testlet in the release docs.
> > * why so big download (answer == tools/ext)
Do we want to include all that? Maybe for the Source, but not for
the binaries.
> > I think this is the most feedback I have got from a release in such a short
> > time.
We are making noise, so people are paying attention.
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Re: [Logkit] feedback
Posted by Peter Donald <do...@apache.org>.
Hi,
Doh!
I just got feedback that points out that it possible to do a
masquerade (sp?) attack against LogKit via something like
getLogger().getLogTargets()[0].processEvent( myEvilEvent );
So to fix this I suggest we deprecate Logger.getLogTargets() make it return a
zero sized array and instead add a "complimenting" setLogTargets() as
suggested below?
Thoughts?
BTW I just noticed that Log4j added a MDC recently (6 hours ago) which is
essentially our ContextMap. Also their PatternFormatter was reworked in a
manner similar to ours. I wonder if we will be accused of stealing this
time... Ahh the joy of it all.
On Mon, 6 Aug 2001 16:42, Peter Donald wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Heres some feedback got so far about logkit release.
>
> * Changelog should be below files listing on download page and should also
> include data like how to verify signatures
> * Release should say "why" you should upgrade
> * Somethings were in but not mentioned in ChangeLog (ie MemoryTarget)
> * Logger.setLogTargets() should provide a method that "compliments"
> existing targets (like additivity=true in log4j).
> * LogTarget is a stupid name for what it does (no alternative offered)
> * filters should be in org.apache.log.output.filter or similar (they are
> only used by output targets)
> * OutputStreamLogger should be named LoggerOutputStream
> * documentation sucks (whitepaper does not list every output target or
> explain concepts well enough, javadocs missing overview docs for packages
> and classes)
> * Why use testlet when there is junit
> * why so big download (answer == tools/ext)
>
> I think this is the most feedback I have got from a release in such a short
> time.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Pete
>
> *-----------------------------------------------------*
>
> | "Faced with the choice between changing one's mind, |
> | and proving that there is no need to do so - almost |
> | everyone gets busy on the proof." |
> | - John Kenneth Galbraith |
>
> *-----------------------------------------------------*
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: avalon-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: avalon-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
--
Cheers,
Pete
*-----------------------------------------------------*
| "Faced with the choice between changing one's mind, |
| and proving that there is no need to do so - almost |
| everyone gets busy on the proof." |
| - John Kenneth Galbraith |
*-----------------------------------------------------*
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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