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Posted to dev@tomcat.apache.org by Jon Scott Stevens <jo...@latchkey.com> on 2002/07/18 01:34:18 UTC
[PROPOSAL] Split the repo's
After JSR053 was formed and dependencies were added to the Servlet API from
the JSP API, it became clear that this was a bad thing. It was ok to have
the JSP API rely on the Servlet API, but not the other way around. The
reason for this is because many people choose to use the Servlet API without
wanting anything to do with JSP.
As part of this realization, the next versions of JSP and the Servlet API
were defined as separate JSR's in the JCP.
http://jcp.org/jsr/detail/152.jsp
http://jcp.org/jsr/detail/154.jsp
A vote was cast on the tomcat-dev list that suggested a proposal for Tomcat
5.0. It was unclear to myself and others that this also included combining
the CVS repositories for the Servlet API and the JSP API and disrespecting
the fact that there are two separate JSR's.
Therefore, I'm asking for another vote to split the CVS repositories to
represent the split JSR's and adapt the build system of the JSP repository
to have a dependency on the Servlet repository, but not the other way
around. It is ok to also have the JSP build system generate a single .jar
file with both the Servlet api and JSP api included.
[ ] I don't want the API's split into separate repo's
[ ] I don't care
[ ] I want the API's split into separate repo's.
-jon
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Re: [PROPOSAL] Split the repo's
Posted by Remy Maucherat <re...@apache.org>.
Jon Scott Stevens wrote:
> [ ] I don't want the API's split into separate repo's
> [ ] I don't care
> [X] I want the API's split into separate repo's.
It will likely break a few build scripts, but that will be easy to fix.
I'm voting to split (actually, I'm more in the "I don't care" item)
because this is a highly political issue we've already wasted way too
much time on in the past IMO.
Remy
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Re: [PROPOSAL] Split the repo's
Posted by Andy Armstrong <an...@tagish.com>.
Jon Scott Stevens wrote:
>
> After JSR053 was formed and dependencies were added to the Servlet API from
> the JSP API, it became clear that this was a bad thing. It was ok to have
> the JSP API rely on the Servlet API, but not the other way around. The
> reason for this is because many people choose to use the Servlet API without
> wanting anything to do with JSP.
>
> As part of this realization, the next versions of JSP and the Servlet API
> were defined as separate JSR's in the JCP.
>
> http://jcp.org/jsr/detail/152.jsp
> http://jcp.org/jsr/detail/154.jsp
>
> A vote was cast on the tomcat-dev list that suggested a proposal for Tomcat
> 5.0. It was unclear to myself and others that this also included combining
> the CVS repositories for the Servlet API and the JSP API and disrespecting
> the fact that there are two separate JSR's.
>
> Therefore, I'm asking for another vote to split the CVS repositories to
> represent the split JSR's and adapt the build system of the JSP repository
> to have a dependency on the Servlet repository, but not the other way
> around. It is ok to also have the JSP build system generate a single .jar
> file with both the Servlet api and JSP api included.
>
> [ ] I don't want the API's split into separate repo's
> [ ] I don't care
> [X] I want the API's split into separate repo's.
>
> -jon
>
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Re: [PROPOSAL] Split the repo's
Posted by Glenn Nielsen <gl...@voyager.apg.more.net>.
Jon Scott Stevens wrote:
>
> Therefore, I'm asking for another vote to split the CVS repositories to
> represent the split JSR's and adapt the build system of the JSP repository
> to have a dependency on the Servlet repository, but not the other way
> around. It is ok to also have the JSP build system generate a single .jar
> file with both the Servlet api and JSP api included.
>
> [ ] I don't want the API's split into separate repo's
> [ ] I don't care
> [X] I want the API's split into separate repo's.
>
Starting with the new Servlet/JSP 2 specs. Its ok to split the new
specs, existing dependencies are on jakarta-servletapi-4 which will
remain as is.
Glenn
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Re: [PROPOSAL] Split the repo's
Posted by Pier Fumagalli <pi...@betaversion.org>.
"Patrick Luby" <pa...@sun.com> wrote:
> Oops. The javax.servlet.jsp.* packages have been in jakarta-servlet-4
> for a long time.
>
> In any case, I tried seeing if this issue could be solved by merely
> moving the javax.servlet.jsp.* packages over to the
> jakarta-tomcat-jasper repository. Unfortunately, that breaks the
> jakarta-taglibs code that jakarta-tomcat-jasper depend on. I suspect
> that there are other projects that may expect the javax.servlet.jsp.*
> package to be in servlet.jar as well. :(
>
> So, even though I don't like the current structure and I think it would
> be cleaner to have the javax.servlet.jsp.* packages separated from the
> javax.servlet.* packages, separating them may cause a lot of pain for
> others who have come to depend on the current structure. I feel that I
> should take this into my vote and, hence, I am changing my vote to:
In this case, it's not our problem... They should fix their stuff...
Pier
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Re: [PROPOSAL] Split the repo's
Posted by Jon Scott Stevens <jo...@latchkey.com>.
on 7/17/02 11:35 PM, "Patrick Luby" <pa...@sun.com> wrote:
> All,
>
> Patrick Luby wrote:
>
>> I tend to agree with Jon on this issue. When I voted for a
>> java-servletapi-5 repository, I made the - I think reasonable -
>> assumption that the java-servletapi-5 repository would only contain the
>> JSR-154 code. After all, the java-servletapi-4 repository has, for as
>> long as I can remember, only contained javax.servlet.* classes.
>>
>
> Oops. The javax.servlet.jsp.* packages have been in jakarta-servlet-4
> for a long time.
>
> In any case, I tried seeing if this issue could be solved by merely
> moving the javax.servlet.jsp.* packages over to the
> jakarta-tomcat-jasper repository. Unfortunately, that breaks the
> jakarta-taglibs code that jakarta-tomcat-jasper depend on. I suspect
> that there are other projects that may expect the javax.servlet.jsp.*
> package to be in servlet.jar as well. :(
>
> So, even though I don't like the current structure and I think it would
> be cleaner to have the javax.servlet.jsp.* packages separated from the
> javax.servlet.* packages, separating them may cause a lot of pain for
> others who have come to depend on the current structure. I feel that I
> should take this into my vote and, hence, I am changing my vote to:
>
> [X] I don't want the API's split into separate repo's
> [ ] I don't care
> [ ] I want the API's split into separate repo's.
>
> Patrick
I NEVER SAID ANYTHING ABOUT CHANGING THE PACKAGE STRUCTURE OF THE JAR FILE.
-jon
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Re: [PROPOSAL] Split the repo's
Posted by Patrick Luby <pa...@sun.com>.
All,
Patrick Luby wrote:
> I tend to agree with Jon on this issue. When I voted for a
> java-servletapi-5 repository, I made the - I think reasonable -
> assumption that the java-servletapi-5 repository would only contain the
> JSR-154 code. After all, the java-servletapi-4 repository has, for as
> long as I can remember, only contained javax.servlet.* classes.
>
Oops. The javax.servlet.jsp.* packages have been in jakarta-servlet-4
for a long time.
In any case, I tried seeing if this issue could be solved by merely
moving the javax.servlet.jsp.* packages over to the
jakarta-tomcat-jasper repository. Unfortunately, that breaks the
jakarta-taglibs code that jakarta-tomcat-jasper depend on. I suspect
that there are other projects that may expect the javax.servlet.jsp.*
package to be in servlet.jar as well. :(
So, even though I don't like the current structure and I think it would
be cleaner to have the javax.servlet.jsp.* packages separated from the
javax.servlet.* packages, separating them may cause a lot of pain for
others who have come to depend on the current structure. I feel that I
should take this into my vote and, hence, I am changing my vote to:
[X] I don't want the API's split into separate repo's
[ ] I don't care
[ ] I want the API's split into separate repo's.
Patrick
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________________________________________________________________
Patrick Luby Email: patrick.luby@sun.com
Sun Microsystems Phone: 408-276-7471
901 San Antonio Road, USCA14-303
Palo Alto, CA 94303-4900
________________________________________________________________
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Re: [PROPOSAL] Split the repo's
Posted by Patrick Luby <pa...@sun.com>.
Jon Scott Stevens wrote:
>
> [ ] I don't want the API's split into separate repo's
> [ ] I don't care
> [X] I want the API's split into separate repo's.
>
> -jon
>
I tend to agree with Jon on this issue. When I voted for a
java-servletapi-5 repository, I made the - I think reasonable -
assumption that the java-servletapi-5 repository would only contain the
JSR-154 code. After all, the java-servletapi-4 repository has, for as
long as I can remember, only contained javax.servlet.* classes.
My feeling is that the jakarta-tomcat-jasper code should have the
java-servletapi-[4|5] repositories as a dependency but no JSP code
should actually be checked into the java-serlvetapi-[4|5] repository. I
am OK with the jakarta-tomcat-jasper build can extract all of the
javax.servlet.* classes and put them into its own jar. However, JSR-154
requires no dependencies on JSR-152. Hence, putting JSP code in the
Servlet repository forces a dependency that should not be there.
Patrick
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_____________________________________________________________________
Patrick Luby Email: patrick.luby@sun.com
Sun Microsystems Phone: 408-276-7471
901 San Antonio Road, USCA14-303
Palo Alto, CA 94303-4900
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RE: [PROPOSAL] Split the repo's
Posted by John Trollinger <ja...@trollingers.com>.
[ ] I don't want the API's split into separate repo's
[ ] I don't care
[X] I want the API's split into separate repo's.
-jon
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Re: [PROPOSAL] Split the repo's
Posted by Pier Fumagalli <pi...@betaversion.org>.
Jon Scott Stevens <jo...@latchkey.com> wrote:
> [ ] I don't want the API's split into separate repo's
> [ ] I don't care
> [X] I want the API's split into separate repo's.
Pier
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sublanguages in one monolithic executable. It combines the power of C with
the readability of PostScript. [Jamie Zawinski - DNA Lounge - San Francisco]
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RE: [PROPOSAL] Split the repo's
Posted by Keith Wannamaker <Ke...@Wannamaker.org>.
|
| [X] I don't want the API's split into separate repo's
| [ ] I don't care
| [ ] I want the API's split into separate repo's.
|
TC 4 has too many external module dependencies as it is.
Keith
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Re: [PROPOSAL] Split the repo's
Posted by Remy Maucherat <re...@apache.org>.
costinm@covalent.net wrote:
> On Wed, 17 Jul 2002, Jon Scott Stevens wrote:
>
>
>>[X] I don't want the API's split into separate repo's
>>[ ] I don't care
>>[ ] I want the API's split into separate repo's.
>
>
> I'm pretty sure Jon is not proposing this for the benefit of tomcat or
> tomcat users, but out of his hate for JSPs. But that's not the reason
> I'm voting against - we already have too many CVS trees and this is
> bad organization, it could be well placed in a single CVS in separate
> directories.
>
> Having a separate CVS for a dozen of files instead of just a separate
> directory is a bad solution.
That's a good point. Separating the servlet and JSP code using
directories in the repository would have a similar result from the
developer standpoint, while not adding another repository.
Maybe this is a good middle point.
Remy
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Re: [PROPOSAL] Split the repo's
Posted by Bojan Smojver <bo...@rexursive.com>.
On Fri, 2002-07-19 at 00:16, costinm@covalent.net wrote:
> I'm pretty sure Jon is not proposing this for the benefit of tomcat or
> tomcat users, but out of his hate for JSPs.
What's wrong with that?
;-))
Bojan
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Re: [PROPOSAL] Split the repo's
Posted by Remy Maucherat <re...@apache.org>.
Jon Scott Stevens wrote:
> jakarta-apis/jsr154/src/java
> jakarta-apis/jsr152/src/java
+1.
Using the jsr numbers may not be explicit enough, though (but it gets
the job done, so ...).
I have the feeling we're getting somewhere :)
Remy
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Re: [PROPOSAL] Split the repo's
Posted by Pier Fumagalli <pi...@betaversion.org>.
Jon Scott Stevens <jo...@latchkey.com> wrote:
> jakarta-apis/jsr154/src/java
> jakarta-apis/jsr152/src/java
+1
Pier
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Re: [PROPOSAL] Split the repo's
Posted by Jon Scott Stevens <jo...@latchkey.com>.
on 7/18/02 4:07 PM, "costinm@covalent.net" <co...@covalent.net> wrote:
> Ok, what about using the original jakarta-servletapi repository and
> creating a subdir for each JSR ?
I think it should be renamed...
> Or a new jakarta-apis directory and creating one subdir for each JSR ?
Sounds good. Maybe even a directory structure like:
jakarta-apis/jsr154/src/java
jakarta-apis/jsr152/src/java
> Eventually this can be used for other JSRs where open source
> implementations are permited - similar with what xml-apis is doing
> with DOM,SAX,JAXP.
+1
-jon
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Re: [PROPOSAL] Split the repo's
Posted by co...@covalent.net.
On Thu, 18 Jul 2002, Jon Scott Stevens wrote:
> > But that's not the reason
> > I'm voting against - we already have too many CVS trees and this is
> > bad organization, it could be well placed in a single CVS in separate
> > directories.
> >
> > Having a separate CVS for a dozen of files instead of just a separate
> > directory is a bad solution.
>
> I'm cool with that modification to the proposal.
>
> Separate directory tree's in the same repo is fine with me as long as the
> building of the Servlet API does not require the other directory tree to
> exist. ie: The Servlet API should not depend on the JSP API.
Ok, what about using the original jakarta-servletapi repository and
creating a subdir for each JSR ?
Or a new jakarta-apis directory and creating one subdir for each JSR ?
Eventually this can be used for other JSRs where open source
implementations are permited - similar with what xml-apis is doing
with DOM,SAX,JAXP.
Costin
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Re: [PROPOSAL] Split the repo's
Posted by Jon Scott Stevens <jo...@latchkey.com>.
on 7/18/02 7:16 AM, "costinm@covalent.net" <co...@covalent.net> wrote:
> But that's not the reason
> I'm voting against - we already have too many CVS trees and this is
> bad organization, it could be well placed in a single CVS in separate
> directories.
>
> Having a separate CVS for a dozen of files instead of just a separate
> directory is a bad solution.
I'm cool with that modification to the proposal.
Separate directory tree's in the same repo is fine with me as long as the
building of the Servlet API does not require the other directory tree to
exist. ie: The Servlet API should not depend on the JSP API.
-jon
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Re: [PROPOSAL] Split the repo's
Posted by Jon Scott Stevens <jo...@latchkey.com>.
on 7/18/02 7:16 AM, "costinm@covalent.net" <co...@covalent.net> wrote:
> I'm pretty sure Jon is not proposing this for the benefit of tomcat or
> tomcat users, but out of his hate for JSPs.
>From my POV, splitting JSP out of Tomcat would benefit Tomcat and Tomcat
users.
-jon
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Re: [PROPOSAL] Split the repo's
Posted by co...@covalent.net.
On Wed, 17 Jul 2002, Jon Scott Stevens wrote:
> [X] I don't want the API's split into separate repo's
> [ ] I don't care
> [ ] I want the API's split into separate repo's.
I'm pretty sure Jon is not proposing this for the benefit of tomcat or
tomcat users, but out of his hate for JSPs. But that's not the reason
I'm voting against - we already have too many CVS trees and this is
bad organization, it could be well placed in a single CVS in separate
directories.
Having a separate CVS for a dozen of files instead of just a separate
directory is a bad solution.
Costin
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Re: [PROPOSAL] Split the repo's
Posted by "Craig R. McClanahan" <cr...@apache.org>.
On Wed, 17 Jul 2002, Jon Scott Stevens wrote:
> Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 16:34:18 -0700
> From: Jon Scott Stevens <jo...@latchkey.com>
> Reply-To: Tomcat Developers List <to...@jakarta.apache.org>
> To: tomcat-dev <to...@jakarta.apache.org>
> Subject: [PROPOSAL] Split the repo's
>
> After JSR053 was formed and dependencies were added to the Servlet API from
> the JSP API, it became clear that this was a bad thing. It was ok to have
> the JSP API rely on the Servlet API, but not the other way around. The
> reason for this is because many people choose to use the Servlet API without
> wanting anything to do with JSP.
>
Just out of curiousity, where do you see any *API* level dependence of
Servlet 2.3 on JSP 1.2? The closest thing I can see is the <jsp-file>
declaration in deployment descriptor DTD, but that has nothing to do with
any of the classes in the "javax.servlet" and "javax.servlet.http"
packages -- which contain zero such dependencies.
> As part of this realization, the next versions of JSP and the Servlet API
> were defined as separate JSR's in the JCP.
>
> http://jcp.org/jsr/detail/152.jsp
> http://jcp.org/jsr/detail/154.jsp
>
> A vote was cast on the tomcat-dev list that suggested a proposal for Tomcat
> 5.0. It was unclear to myself and others that this also included combining
> the CVS repositories for the Servlet API and the JSP API and disrespecting
> the fact that there are two separate JSR's.
>
> Therefore, I'm asking for another vote to split the CVS repositories to
> represent the split JSR's and adapt the build system of the JSP repository
> to have a dependency on the Servlet repository, but not the other way
> around. It is ok to also have the JSP build system generate a single .jar
> file with both the Servlet api and JSP api included.
>
> [ ] I don't want the API's split into separate repo's
> [X] I don't care
> [ ] I want the API's split into separate repo's.
>
It seems kinda silly to waste the time to set this up, when it makes
absolutely no difference to whether we publish two JARs or not (which is
clearly the preference of many) but you're free to spend your time if you
want to ...
> -jon
>
Craig
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