[VOTE] Bug tracking (was Re: Any progress on the bug tracking system?)

[Geoff Soutter <ge...@whitewolf.com.au>]

Hmm, this sure is an interesting thread. ;-)

<ego-control flame="off">

Here's my 2c.... PS, I read throught the Guidelines, hope no-one minds me
initiating this vote even though I'm just a "Developer" rather than a
"Committer".

1) not having a bug tracking system sucks, i've personally submitted bug
reports that have been "lost" on multiple occasions, as has the original
poster. I'll bet there are others out there too. I find it frustrating to
say the least that I can't get bugs fixed that I've known about since Tomcat
was JWSDK! :-)

2) you can't blame any of the committers on the list for "losing" them,
they're pretty much all volunteers and are way busy. But at the same time,
you can't fix them yourself unless you are a committer.

3) existing commiters need to be able to find bugs reports, patches, etc
easily whenever they have some spare time for fixing them in order to fix
our bugs, and that is pretty hard without a bug tracking system.

4) waiting a few months for scarab may be OK for Jon (who I think may
himself be a committer) or any other committer who can fix bugs themselves
whenever they see fit, but it leaves us people who are relying on the good
will of existing committers to fix bugs out in the cold.

5) To avoid the above problems, and thus to allow us non committers to
contribute meaningfully to the project, I'd really like to see a bug-fixed
mozilla (* or _any_ workable system) installed ASAP!

All those in favour? (+1 from me)

</ego-control>

hope this helps

geoff

Re: [VOTE] Bug tracking (was Re: Any progress on the bug tracking system?)

[Arion Yu <ar...@stt.com.hk>]

Hi!

If the bugzilla opens security holes, how about putting it in another machine
outside the firewall (i.e. a sacrifying lamb). At least I would like to see what
are the bugs encountered in the current project and consider if the existence of
the bugs would hinder the product deployment.

Arion

P.S. I am just a mere user, even not a developer

Geoff Soutter wrote:

> Hmm, this sure is an interesting thread. ;-)
>
> <ego-control flame="off">
>
> Here's my 2c.... PS, I read throught the Guidelines, hope no-one minds me
> initiating this vote even though I'm just a "Developer" rather than a
> "Committer".
>
> 1) not having a bug tracking system sucks, i've personally submitted bug
> reports that have been "lost" on multiple occasions, as has the original
> poster. I'll bet there are others out there too. I find it frustrating to
> say the least that I can't get bugs fixed that I've known about since Tomcat
> was JWSDK! :-)
>
> 2) you can't blame any of the committers on the list for "losing" them,
> they're pretty much all volunteers and are way busy. But at the same time,
> you can't fix them yourself unless you are a committer.
>
> 3) existing commiters need to be able to find bugs reports, patches, etc
> easily whenever they have some spare time for fixing them in order to fix
> our bugs, and that is pretty hard without a bug tracking system.
>
> 4) waiting a few months for scarab may be OK for Jon (who I think may
> himself be a committer) or any other committer who can fix bugs themselves
> whenever they see fit, but it leaves us people who are relying on the good
> will of existing committers to fix bugs out in the cold.
>
> 5) To avoid the above problems, and thus to allow us non committers to
> contribute meaningfully to the project, I'd really like to see a bug-fixed
> mozilla (* or _any_ workable system) installed ASAP!
>
> All those in favour? (+1 from me)
>
> </ego-control>
>
> hope this helps
>
> geoff
>
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Re: [VOTE] Bug tracking (was Re: Any progress on the bug tracking system?)

[Costin Manolache <cm...@yahoo.com>]

There is a very simple solution: send a "ant"-style bug report that
can be included in the tomcat tests. We can't release tomcat
if it doesn't pass all the tests, and if the bug is valid it will
pass the current and all future versions of tomcat.

Or if you trust and know bugzilla, install it on your
system and send a pointer - we can use it until we have
something better ( and with a bit of perl we may be able
to import the bugs ).


Costin

Re: [VOTE] Bug tracking (was Re: Any progress on the bug trackingsystem?)

["Craig R. McClanahan" <Cr...@eng.sun.com>]

Geoff Soutter wrote:

> "Jon Stevens" <jo...@latchkey.com> wrote:
> > Did you submit your patch and have the email start with a [PATCH]? If so,
> > I'm surprised that it got lost. Craig and Costin have been doing a really
> > good job with keeping track of patches, especially the last few months. I
> > even try to pick a few up when I get the chance.
>
> When I remember. Some are so small they don't qualify as a patch per se, you
> don't even really need a diff. More like a line number :-). I have noticed
> that Craig is usually jonny-on-the-spot when it comes to Catalina bug fixes,
> which makes me look forward to 4.0 ... :-)
>

Yes, Geoff is one of the several people who have submitted not only
problem
reports, but patches as well -- thanks for that!

I've been silent on this thread so far because, as serendipity would
have it, I
spent most of yesterday reading back through the TOMCAT-DEV archives (I
had kept
>1000 that needed to be reviewed from early May) and applying the patches that
hadn't been done yet.  I've still got the first couple of weeks of July
to catch
up on as well :-(.  They are in the main branch of CVS (not yet in
TOMCAT_32)
because I'd like someone else to verify that I didn't do something
foolish in my
fixes.

Geoff (and others who have submitted patches), could you review the CVS
commit
messages from yesterday and make sure I got all of yours?


> [snip]
> > > 5) To avoid the above problems, and thus to allow us non committers to
> > > contribute meaningfully to the project, I'd really like to see a
> bug-fixed
> > > mozilla (* or _any_ workable system) installed ASAP!

Speaking as a "customer" (in a sense) of Bugzilla when it was running
(i.e.
reading bug reports, processing them, and marking them closed) it was
better
than nothing -- but not a *lot* better.  The problem is in your
parenthetical
comment about a "workable" system :-).

In the short term, I would willingly utilize Bugzilla hosted elsewhere
(than on
an apache.org) web site, until Scarab is ready.  The following
suggestions would
make this work better for all concerned:

* The server it's hosted on needs to be visible to the Internet 7/24. 
People
  work on Tomcat around the clock.  (And Jon, don't you think backups
  would be appropriate :-)

* It should be set up by someone who understands the security issues and
  is willing to actively manage it (if necessary) to avoid security
problems.

* One (or more) of the existing committers should be given admin rights
  on the Bugzilla installation, so that they can do things like add new
bug
  categories and version numbers to the drop down lists.

* At this point in time, it may not be worthwhile trying to import the
old
  bugs database -- although it would be worth having someone scan the
  old ones and enter bug reports for problems that still exist.

(So this is a +1 on the proposal to host Bugzilla elsewhere in the short
term).

>
> geoff

Craig McClanahan

Re: [VOTE] Bug tracking (was Re: Any progress on the bug trackingsystem?)

[Alex Chaffee <gu...@edamame.stinky.com>]

> I saw in some other messages there was a volunteer to run BugZilla on
> another server, maybe thats the compromise solution we're after? Why didn't
> I think of that... :-(
> 

I like this. If you do install bugzilla, just disable FTP and it should  be immune from the specific hack that was used to break into the apache site.

+1

"disable" means "destroy utterly" of course :-)

> [snip]
> 
> > Since this isn't a democracy, end of discussion. :-)
> 
> :-)
> 
> geoff
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [VOTE] Bug tracking (was Re: Any progress on the bug trackingsystem?)

[Geoff Soutter <ge...@whitewolf.com.au>]

"Jon Stevens" <jo...@latchkey.com> wrote:
> on 7/18/2000 1:06 AM, "Geoff Soutter" <ge...@whitewolf.com.au> wrote:
>
> > Hmm, this sure is an interesting thread. ;-)
>
> Your message is definitely the most interesting. :-)

[blush]

> > 1) not having a bug tracking system sucks, i've personally submitted bug
> > reports that have been "lost" on multiple occasions, as has the original
> > poster. I'll bet there are others out there too. I find it frustrating
to
> > say the least that I can't get bugs fixed that I've known about since
Tomcat
> > was JWSDK! :-)
>
> Did you submit your patch and have the email start with a [PATCH]? If so,
> I'm surprised that it got lost. Craig and Costin have been doing a really
> good job with keeping track of patches, especially the last few months. I
> even try to pick a few up when I get the chance.

When I remember. Some are so small they don't qualify as a patch per se, you
don't even really need a diff. More like a line number :-). I have noticed
that Craig is usually jonny-on-the-spot when it comes to Catalina bug fixes,
which makes me look forward to 4.0 ... :-)

> > 2) you can't blame any of the committers on the list for "losing" them,
> > they're pretty much all volunteers and are way busy. But at the same
time,
> > you can't fix them yourself unless you are a committer.
>
> So then get a committer to nominate you to become a committer. It isn't
that
> hard to become a committer, simply show us that you make good patches and
> ask for it!

The bug fixes I posted were really small (eg just a few lines), I don't have
the time to do more that that at the moment, so I don't know if I justify
being a committer. And, more to the point, I'd really like a solution that
works for non-committers as well as committers, cos not everyone
wants/deserves the responsibility.

> > 5) To avoid the above problems, and thus to allow us non committers to
> > contribute meaningfully to the project, I'd really like to see a
bug-fixed
> > mozilla (* or _any_ workable system) installed ASAP!
>
> Why not just become a committer and make sure the patches get in yourself?
> That is a perfectly acceptable way to avoid the problems you mention. :-)
It
> worked for me when I first started working on the Apache JServ project.

I dunno, I think maybe I'm too busy to really get seriously involved in this
project, and I thought you had to be "serious" before becoming a committer.

I saw in some other messages there was a volunteer to run BugZilla on
another server, maybe thats the compromise solution we're after? Why didn't
I think of that... :-(

[snip]

> Since this isn't a democracy, end of discussion. :-)

:-)

geoff

Re: [VOTE] Bug tracking (was Re: Any progress on the bug tracking system?)

[Jon Stevens <jo...@latchkey.com>]

on 7/18/2000 1:06 AM, "Geoff Soutter" <ge...@whitewolf.com.au> wrote:

> Hmm, this sure is an interesting thread. ;-)

Your message is definitely the most interesting. :-)

> Here's my 2c.... PS, I read throught the Guidelines, hope no-one minds me
> initiating this vote even though I'm just a "Developer" rather than a
> "Committer".

Sure! Your input is really well thought out!

> 1) not having a bug tracking system sucks, i've personally submitted bug
> reports that have been "lost" on multiple occasions, as has the original
> poster. I'll bet there are others out there too. I find it frustrating to
> say the least that I can't get bugs fixed that I've known about since Tomcat
> was JWSDK! :-)

Did you submit your patch and have the email start with a [PATCH]? If so,
I'm surprised that it got lost. Craig and Costin have been doing a really
good job with keeping track of patches, especially the last few months. I
even try to pick a few up when I get the chance.

> 2) you can't blame any of the committers on the list for "losing" them,
> they're pretty much all volunteers and are way busy. But at the same time,
> you can't fix them yourself unless you are a committer.

So then get a committer to nominate you to become a committer. It isn't that
hard to become a committer, simply show us that you make good patches and
ask for it!

> 3) existing commiters need to be able to find bugs reports, patches, etc
> easily whenever they have some spare time for fixing them in order to fix
> our bugs, and that is pretty hard without a bug tracking system.

I agree. That is why I'm developing a solution to fix that issue.

> 4) waiting a few months for scarab may be OK for Jon (who I think may
> himself be a committer)

Clarification, I'm a bit more than a committer, I'm also on the PMC.

<http://jakarta.apache.org/credits/whoweare.html>

> or any other committer who can fix bugs themselves
> whenever they see fit, but it leaves us people who are relying on the good
> will of existing committers to fix bugs out in the cold.

Not at all. Become a committer.

> 5) To avoid the above problems, and thus to allow us non committers to
> contribute meaningfully to the project, I'd really like to see a bug-fixed
> mozilla (* or _any_ workable system) installed ASAP!

Why not just become a committer and make sure the patches get in yourself?
That is a perfectly acceptable way to avoid the problems you mention. :-) It
worked for me when I first started working on the Apache JServ project.

> All those in favour? (+1 from me)

-1 for all of my previously stated reasons.

Since this isn't a democracy, end of discussion. :-)

-jon