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Posted to dev@forrest.apache.org by "Andrew C. Oliver" <ac...@apache.org> on 2002/12/04 03:54:51 UTC

Bad dtding

So I was working on converting my page to forrest and
I realize that the dtd is called v11 but yet is different than
the previous dtd labeled 1.1.  Specifically <section> elements
have attributes called "title" in the other document-v11 dtd.
However the title is an <element> in the new one.  I would
suggest that in the future these changes result in a new dtd
version to avoid confusion.

-Andy


Re: Bad dtding

Posted by Jeff Turner <je...@apache.org>.
On Wed, Dec 04, 2002 at 11:59:11AM +0100, Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
> 
> 
> Steven Noels wrote:
> >Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
> >
> >>NOTE: switching the title from attribute to child element is not 
> >>_backwards-compatible_ IIUC. Possible rule of the thumb: adding stuff 
> >>is never a problem, removing them is.
> >
> >
> >Of course, but IIRC, this change has been introduced during the move 
> >from 1.0 -> 1.1 (which was a lengthy move, admittedly). Or not?
> 
> I don't remember it so (I have been using Forrest CVS since early days), 
> but it's not important at all now, also given that it was a start.
> 
> Let's just decide what to do from now on.
> 
> I propose to make all DTD removals to necessarily need a version change.
> +1

+1

I think we can version DTDs to any degree of silliness as long as we
update the catalog:

PUBLIC "-//APACHE//DTD Documentation V1.0//EN" "dtd/document-v10.dtd"
PUBLIC "-//APACHE//DTD Documentation V1.1//EN" "dtd/document-v113.dtd"
PUBLIC "-//APACHE//DTD Documentation V1.1.1//EN" "dtd/document-v111.dtd"
PUBLIC "-//APACHE//DTD Documentation V1.1.2//EN" "dtd/document-v112.dtd"
PUBLIC "-//APACHE//DTD Documentation V1.1.3//EN" "dtd/document-v113.dtd"


--Jeff

> -- 
> Nicola Ken Barozzi                   nicolaken@apache.org
>             - verba volant, scripta manent -
>    (discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> 

Re: Bad dtding

Posted by "Andrew C. Oliver" <ac...@apache.org>.
+1

> I don't remember it so (I have been using Forrest CVS since early 
> days), but it's not important at all now, also given that it was a start.
>
> Let's just decide what to do from now on.
>
> I propose to make all DTD removals to necessarily need a version change.
> +1
>




Re: Bad dtding

Posted by Nicola Ken Barozzi <ni...@apache.org>.

Steven Noels wrote:
> Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
> 
>> NOTE: switching the title from attribute to child element is not 
>> _backwards-compatible_ IIUC. Possible rule of the thumb: adding stuff 
>> is never a problem, removing them is.
> 
> 
> Of course, but IIRC, this change has been introduced during the move 
> from 1.0 -> 1.1 (which was a lengthy move, admittedly). Or not?

I don't remember it so (I have been using Forrest CVS since early days), 
but it's not important at all now, also given that it was a start.

Let's just decide what to do from now on.

I propose to make all DTD removals to necessarily need a version change.
+1

-- 
Nicola Ken Barozzi                   nicolaken@apache.org
             - verba volant, scripta manent -
    (discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
---------------------------------------------------------------------


Re: Bad dtding

Posted by Steven Noels <st...@outerthought.org>.
Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:

> NOTE: switching the title from attribute to child element is not 
> _backwards-compatible_ IIUC. Possible rule of the thumb: adding stuff is 
> never a problem, removing them is.

Of course, but IIRC, this change has been introduced during the move 
from 1.0 -> 1.1 (which was a lengthy move, admittedly). Or not?

</Steven>
-- 
Steven Noels                            http://outerthought.org/
Outerthought - Open Source, Java & XML Competence Support Center
Read my weblog at              http://radio.weblogs.com/0103539/
stevenn at outerthought.org                stevenn at apache.org


Re: Bad dtding

Posted by Nicola Ken Barozzi <ni...@apache.org>.

Steven Noels wrote:
> Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
> 
>> Simple, he was using a development version.
>> I brought this topic up some months ago, because I felt that every 
>> change to the dtd had to imply a number change, but the decision was 
>> that till it wasn't "released" we kept the same number.
> 
> 
> I don't think trivial, _backwards-compatible_ changes warrant the 
> trouble of increasing version numbers, changing PUBLIC IDs, updating 
> catalogs, etc...
> 
> Other opinions?

NOTE: switching the title from attribute to child element is not 
_backwards-compatible_ IIUC. Possible rule of the thumb: adding stuff is 
never a problem, removing them is.

-- 
Nicola Ken Barozzi                   nicolaken@apache.org
             - verba volant, scripta manent -
    (discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
---------------------------------------------------------------------


Re: Bad dtding

Posted by "Andrew C. Oliver" <ac...@apache.org>.
Its also the version thats been in centipede for like 6 months or so. 
 From a user perspective...its very mean.  There are infinite numbers 
possible, I do not suggest numeric conservation as an appropriate tradeoff.

-Andy

Steven Noels wrote:

> Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
>
>> Simple, he was using a development version.
>> I brought this topic up some months ago, because I felt that every 
>> change to the dtd had to imply a number change, but the decision was 
>> that till it wasn't "released" we kept the same number.
>
>
> I don't think trivial, _backwards-compatible_ changes warrant the 
> trouble of increasing version numbers, changing PUBLIC IDs, updating 
> catalogs, etc...
>
> Other opinions?
>
> </Steven>





Re: Bad dtding

Posted by Steven Noels <st...@outerthought.org>.
Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:

> Simple, he was using a development version.
> I brought this topic up some months ago, because I felt that every 
> change to the dtd had to imply a number change, but the decision was 
> that till it wasn't "released" we kept the same number.

I don't think trivial, _backwards-compatible_ changes warrant the 
trouble of increasing version numbers, changing PUBLIC IDs, updating 
catalogs, etc...

Other opinions?

</Steven>
-- 
Steven Noels                            http://outerthought.org/
Outerthought - Open Source, Java & XML Competence Support Center
Read my weblog at              http://radio.weblogs.com/0103539/
stevenn at outerthought.org                stevenn at apache.org


Re: Bad dtding

Posted by Nicola Ken Barozzi <ni...@apache.org>.
Steven Noels wrote:
> Andrew C. Oliver wrote:
> 
>> So I was working on converting my page to forrest and
>> I realize that the dtd is called v11 but yet is different than
>> the previous dtd labeled 1.1.  Specifically <section> elements
>> have attributes called "title" in the other document-v11 dtd.
> 
> 
> ??
> 
> Where did you find that 'previous DTD' labeled 1.1?

Simple, he was using a development version.
I brought this topic up some months ago, because I felt that every 
change to the dtd had to imply a number change, but the decision was 
that till it wasn't "released" we kept the same number.

> Examples of the previous version 1.0 can be found here: 
> http://cvs.apache.org/viewcvs.cgi/xml-cocoon2/src/documentation/xdocs/dtd/
> 
> I didn't manage to find any inside stylebook itself, however.
> 
> </Steven>

-- 
Nicola Ken Barozzi                   nicolaken@apache.org
             - verba volant, scripta manent -
    (discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
---------------------------------------------------------------------


Re: Bad dtding

Posted by Steven Noels <st...@outerthought.org>.
Andrew C. Oliver wrote:

> So I was working on converting my page to forrest and
> I realize that the dtd is called v11 but yet is different than
> the previous dtd labeled 1.1.  Specifically <section> elements
> have attributes called "title" in the other document-v11 dtd.

??

Where did you find that 'previous DTD' labeled 1.1?

Examples of the previous version 1.0 can be found here: 
http://cvs.apache.org/viewcvs.cgi/xml-cocoon2/src/documentation/xdocs/dtd/

I didn't manage to find any inside stylebook itself, however.

</Steven>
-- 
Steven Noels                            http://outerthought.org/
Outerthought - Open Source, Java & XML Competence Support Center
Read my weblog at              http://radio.weblogs.com/0103539/
stevenn at outerthought.org                stevenn at apache.org