Re: exCornerstone components.

[Leo Simons <le...@apache.org>]

Leo Simons wrote:
> Paul Hammant wrote:
> 
>> Would anyone mind if I added PicoContainer compatability to the 
>> ConnectionManager, ThreadManager
>> etc components formerly known as Cornerstone?
 >
<snip/>
>
>> Thoughts?
> 
> like the idea, but some reservations :D

I'm reversing direction completely. A little bit of experimentation over 
the holidays (yes I'm an addict) has shown me that "type III IoC" is, in 
fact, one of the best ideas of 2003 I've seen so far. I hope to write 
and donate to picocontainer an essay lining out why, but in the meantime 
I'd just want to point out to y'all my reservations are henceforth lifted.

:D

cheers!

- Leo



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Re: exCornerstone components.

[Leo Simons <le...@apache.org>]

Paul Hammant wrote:
>>> like the idea, but some reservations :D
>>
>> I'm reversing direction completely.
> 
> I'm likely to reverse myself dude. I don't have the time to bite into 
> another chore.

the whole idea with open source is that the source might continue to 
live when a developer moves on, innit? :D

Anyways, you know me for sometimes reversing direction several times in 
a day, don't you?

I think what's actually the key with pico is that you make it real easy 
to remove the "new" keyword even for the simplest of beans (ie, of the 
size where the import org.apache.{blah} statements would otherwise take 
up a significant part of the sourcefile), and that makes it easy to do 
simple proxy-based AOP even for the simplest of beans, and boy, does 
that have potential. Pico on its own is not nor should be a complete 
replacement for avalon, but it sure is a candidate for managing the 
ComponentHandler beans that live in fortress (for example).

the actual syntax and type safety doesn't matter to me as much as how 
much shorter and simpler your component sourcefile becomes as a result. 
You can work with Pico 5 mins after you learn java.

> I've dropped the ball on a number of Avalon related things. For example 
> Sevak. It needs a little attention, and I should help finish it off.

you mean "finish it off" as in "finish it", I hope?

> Please also be aware (folks) that PicoContainer is a place that PeterD 
> hangs out. As you know I continue to be a friend to him.  Pico embraces 
> the multi-container design, that we no longer allow here. If you like a 
> reborn Lowest Common Denominator (LCD) and multiple visions of component 
> compatible (but potentially competing and divergent) containers. That 
> said all my friends here are welcome there. We are not going to reopen 
> old wounds though. It is also trying to be an XP project. Simplest 
> thing, TDD et al.

PicoContainer is forming to be a neat project, and from what I've seen 
by looking at the mail archives a cool group of people surrounds it. I 
like the atmosphere of TDD. Doesn't mean I'm planning to get involved; I 
have unfortunately no time nor energy to be a responsible member of 
another OSS project 8-).......whether or not a long-lasting community 
forms around it (lets hope so), those ideas really do have merit on 
their own (and don't you dare convince me otherwise for the next 24 
hours at least!).

> Death to Static! Long live IoC!! (what we all have in common)

and with that, goodnight to y'all!


cheers,


- Leo

PS: only 331 unread messages left on dev@avalon ;)



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Re: exCornerstone components.

[Paul Hammant <Pa...@ThoughtWorks.net>]

Leo,

>>
>> like the idea, but some reservations :D
>
>
> I'm reversing direction completely. A little bit of experimentation 
> over the holidays (yes I'm an addict) has shown me that "type III IoC" 
> is, in fact, one of the best ideas of 2003 I've seen so far. I hope to 
> write and donate to picocontainer an essay lining out why, but in the 
> meantime I'd just want to point out to y'all my reservations are 
> henceforth lifted. 

I'm likely to reverse myself dude. I don't have the time to bite into 
another chore. Thoughtworks is giving me lots to do, inside and outside 
of client hours.

I've dropped the ball on a number of Avalon related things. For example 
Sevak. It needs a little attention, and I should help finish it off.

Please also be aware (folks) that PicoContainer is a place that PeterD 
hangs out. As you know I continue to be a friend to him.  Pico embraces 
the multi-container design, that we no longer allow here. If you like a 
reborn Lowest Common Denominator (LCD) and multiple visions of component 
compatible (but potentially competing and divergent) containers. That 
said all my friends here are welcome there. We are not going to reopen 
old wounds though. It is also trying to be an XP project. Simplest 
thing, TDD et al.

Death to Static! Long live IoC!! (what we all have in common)

- Paul

-- 
http://www.thoughtworks.com -> The art of heavy lifting.
Home for many Agile practicing, Open Source activists...



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Re: exCornerstone components.

[Leo Simons <le...@apache.org>]

J Aaron Farr wrote:
> Correct me if I'm wrong, but type III is defined by the servicing of
> components via the constructor, right?

yep.

> I'm interested in PicoContainer, but I'm not completely convinced it's
> better for all cases.

definately not for all cases. It is a lot simpler for the simple cases. 
Consider building a more full-featured container out of pico-hosted 
beans, for example. Or consider preaching the benefits of COP to fresh 
CompSci students. Even the 14-year-old brother of a friend of mine (who 
knows PHP and is learning java) gets it.


just IMVHO for now.


cheers,

- Leo



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Re: exCornerstone components.

[J Aaron Farr <fa...@apache.org>]

On Sun, 2003-07-27 at 17:53, Leo Simons wrote:
> Leo Simons wrote:
> > Paul Hammant wrote:
> > 
> >> Would anyone mind if I added PicoContainer compatability to the 
> >> ConnectionManager, ThreadManager
> >> etc components formerly known as Cornerstone?
>  >
> <snip/>
> >
> >> Thoughts?
> > 
> > like the idea, but some reservations :D
> 
> I'm reversing direction completely. A little bit of experimentation over 
> the holidays (yes I'm an addict) has shown me that "type III IoC" is, in 
> fact, one of the best ideas of 2003 I've seen so far. I hope to write 
> and donate to picocontainer an essay lining out why, but in the meantime 
> I'd just want to point out to y'all my reservations are henceforth lifted.
> 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but type III is defined by the servicing of
components via the constructor, right?

I'm interested in PicoContainer, but I'm not completely convinced it's
better for all cases.  I'll be watching for your essay.

-- 
 jaaron  <http://jadetower.org>


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