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Posted to dev@forrest.apache.org by Ugo Cei <u....@cbim.it> on 2002/03/04 14:45:05 UTC
More random thoughts on blogging and content editing
Just to refresh the thread about blogging, that seems to be languishing,
I would like to point you to my recent blog entries:
http://www.beblogging.com/cocoon/mount/beeb/20020302-112015
and
http://www.beblogging.com/cocoon/mount/beeb/20020304-142853
Would anyone care to comment?
Ugo
--
Ugo Cei - Consorzio di Bioingegneria e Informatica Medica
P.le Volontari del Sangue, 2 - 27100 Pavia - Italy
Phone: +39.0382.525100 - E-mail: u.cei@cbim.it
Re: More random thoughts on blogging and content editing
Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@codeconsult.ch>.
Ugo Cei wrote (in his blog):
> At the moment, I am ruling out a Java applet. Maybe there would
> be too much code to write.
Re: More random thoughts on blogging and content editing
Posted by Ugo Cei <u....@cbim.it>.
Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
> I would like to have the granularity to say 'this is editable' (say the
> latest log in your weblog columns) but the rest is not... right there!,
> no need for text fields, no need for weird things. Just *write* on your
> page, like you would do on paper!
>
> But with the extra plus of having your web page *tell you* where you
> should be writing stuff and where you can't because either you are not
> allowed to (because of your role: this is a must in workflow-based
> editing environments, this empowers SoC!) or either because it doesn't
> make sense (and the web designer doesn't want you to change things
> around).
This would be very cool indeed. It would beat the crap out of *every*
content editing system out there.
> Anyway, I'm about ready to dive into the mozilla code to add something
> like this because I need it *very* badly, if you want to join, email me
> privately.
I'm afraid I don't have the time nor the heart to delve into a few
million lines of C++ code ;). At the moment, I am just trying to make
sense of XUL and XBL. If you want to see my latest experiment, take a
look at my latest blog entry (http://www.beblogging.com/). What I want
to have in a short time is a minimal but extensible support for editing
blog entries, not much more.
However, I am very interested in what you are doing. If I can find some
time off, I'd be glad to contribute.
Ugo
--
Ugo Cei - Consorzio di Bioingegneria e Informatica Medica
P.le Volontari del Sangue, 2 - 27100 Pavia - Italy
Phone: +39.0382.525100 - E-mail: u.cei@cbim.it
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Re: More random thoughts on blogging and content editing
Posted by Ugo Cei <u....@cbim.it>.
Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
> I would like to have the granularity to say 'this is editable' (say the
> latest log in your weblog columns) but the rest is not... right there!,
> no need for text fields, no need for weird things. Just *write* on your
> page, like you would do on paper!
>
> But with the extra plus of having your web page *tell you* where you
> should be writing stuff and where you can't because either you are not
> allowed to (because of your role: this is a must in workflow-based
> editing environments, this empowers SoC!) or either because it doesn't
> make sense (and the web designer doesn't want you to change things
> around).
This would be very cool indeed. It would beat the crap out of *every*
content editing system out there.
> Anyway, I'm about ready to dive into the mozilla code to add something
> like this because I need it *very* badly, if you want to join, email me
> privately.
I'm afraid I don't have the time nor the heart to delve into a few
million lines of C++ code ;). At the moment, I am just trying to make
sense of XUL and XBL. If you want to see my latest experiment, take a
look at my latest blog entry (http://www.beblogging.com/). What I want
to have in a short time is a minimal but extensible support for editing
blog entries, not much more.
However, I am very interested in what you are doing. If I can find some
time off, I'd be glad to contribute.
Ugo
--
Ugo Cei - Consorzio di Bioingegneria e Informatica Medica
P.le Volontari del Sangue, 2 - 27100 Pavia - Italy
Phone: +39.0382.525100 - E-mail: u.cei@cbim.it
Re: More random thoughts on blogging and content editing
Posted by Jeremy Quinn <je...@media.demon.co.uk>.
At 6:16 pm +0100 4/3/02, Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
>Ugo Cei wrote:
>>
>> Just to refresh the thread about blogging, that seems to be languishing,
>> I would like to point you to my recent blog entries:
>>
>> http://www.beblogging.com/cocoon/mount/beeb/20020302-112015
>>
>> and
>>
>> http://www.beblogging.com/cocoon/mount/beeb/20020304-142853
>>
>> Would anyone care to comment?
>
>I've discovered xmlwebgui last week and played with it. I really like
>the 'in-place possible choices' that it gives you (presenting the
>internal xerces DTD representation translated into javascript, very cool
>indeed for that little amount of code!), but the user interface is
>really horrible. I mean: it's *way* faster to write xml in a big
>textfield.
>
>But the direction is the right one, I would say.
It IS ugly, though they do realise .... they say they are looking for a
graphic designer .....
>I still believe that mozilla is the way to go for web-based editing...
>if only it was possible to write XPCOM components in Java :( Sure, it's
>planned but don't know where it will land.
I'd love a way to build custom editors ..... specially from XML ;)
I share XLink LinkMaps and LinkBases between my documents. Authors will
need to be able to insert references from the separate LinkBase and LinkMap
into their documents and add new references etc. I just don't see this
happening in an html interface somehow ...
I am wondering if it could be possible to use JavaWebStart to get a client
Application (XML Mind, Morphon, TurboXML, SendStory etc.) to
Download->Edit->Upload via HTTP, or WebDAV.
There are lots of ideas about how a GUI for editing XML should look and
feel, though TBH I have yet to like any of them :(
regards Jeremy
--
___________________________________________________________________
Jeremy Quinn Karma Divers
webSpace Design
HyperMedia Research Centre
<ma...@mac.com> <http://www.media.demon.co.uk>
<phone:+44.[0].20.7737.6831> <pa...@vizzavi.net>
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Re: More random thoughts on blogging and content editing
Posted by Stefano Mazzocchi <st...@apache.org>.
Ugo Cei wrote:
>
> Just to refresh the thread about blogging, that seems to be languishing,
> I would like to point you to my recent blog entries:
>
> http://www.beblogging.com/cocoon/mount/beeb/20020302-112015
>
> and
>
> http://www.beblogging.com/cocoon/mount/beeb/20020304-142853
>
> Would anyone care to comment?
I've discovered xmlwebgui last week and played with it. I really like
the 'in-place possible choices' that it gives you (presenting the
internal xerces DTD representation translated into javascript, very cool
indeed for that little amount of code!), but the user interface is
really horrible. I mean: it's *way* faster to write xml in a big
textfield.
But the direction is the right one, I would say.
I still believe that mozilla is the way to go for web-based editing...
if only it was possible to write XPCOM components in Java :( Sure, it's
planned but don't know where it will land.
The thing is: Mozilla lacks 'contenteditable="true"'... this it the
problem: sure, you can do two things:
1) transform the DOM element into a textarea and back (but you loose
editing structure, unless you *explicitly* indicate the markup inside
the text area ---> BAD, UGLY, only techny will use it!
2) write a javascript-based "contenteditable" clone (which was posted
on this list a while back) using a *fake* caret built with CSS-ize
single characters --> HACK, SLOW, looks terrible!
Currently, mozilla has 'gecko' which does the rendering and 'editor'
which does all the text-editing stuff. I'm not sure *how* they got them
working together (I *hope* they didn't write two different rendering
systems!!!), but they should allow us to define (via an attribute, like
IE5.5+ does) to turn on the rendering system *right there*, just on the
places we want this operation to be turned on.
Why so?
well, mostly because the mozilla composer turns javascript off during
composition... thus, you need to use XUL <editor> but this is nothing
different from IE's <iframe> that Radio uses (and HotMail and so on),
but all the editing is there and all the rest is outside.
Editing granularity is simply too coarse.
It's all or nothing solution and it might work for weblogs, but for sure
it's not a solution that could scale to higher editing needs.
I would like to have the granularity to say 'this is editable' (say the
latest log in your weblog columns) but the rest is not... right there!,
no need for text fields, no need for weird things. Just *write* on your
page, like you would do on paper!
But with the extra plus of having your web page *tell you* where you
should be writing stuff and where you can't because either you are not
allowed to (because of your role: this is a must in workflow-based
editing environments, this empowers SoC!) or either because it doesn't
make sense (and the web designer doesn't want you to change things
around).
Moreover, having element-granular in-place editing, allows javascript to
remain on while the page is edited, because the javascript becomes part
of the 'structure' that guides your editing, unlike in the <editor> or
editing <iframe> where *everything* is editable, even the attributes...
but you normally don't need to edit attributes in those cases, only
change the text fields or add new elements.
Anyway, I'm about ready to dive into the mozilla code to add something
like this because I need it *very* badly, if you want to join, email me
privately.
--
Stefano Mazzocchi One must still have chaos in oneself to be
able to give birth to a dancing star.
<st...@apache.org> Friedrich Nietzsche
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Re: More random thoughts on blogging and content editing
Posted by Stefano Mazzocchi <st...@apache.org>.
Ugo Cei wrote:
>
> Just to refresh the thread about blogging, that seems to be languishing,
> I would like to point you to my recent blog entries:
>
> http://www.beblogging.com/cocoon/mount/beeb/20020302-112015
>
> and
>
> http://www.beblogging.com/cocoon/mount/beeb/20020304-142853
>
> Would anyone care to comment?
I've discovered xmlwebgui last week and played with it. I really like
the 'in-place possible choices' that it gives you (presenting the
internal xerces DTD representation translated into javascript, very cool
indeed for that little amount of code!), but the user interface is
really horrible. I mean: it's *way* faster to write xml in a big
textfield.
But the direction is the right one, I would say.
I still believe that mozilla is the way to go for web-based editing...
if only it was possible to write XPCOM components in Java :( Sure, it's
planned but don't know where it will land.
The thing is: Mozilla lacks 'contenteditable="true"'... this it the
problem: sure, you can do two things:
1) transform the DOM element into a textarea and back (but you loose
editing structure, unless you *explicitly* indicate the markup inside
the text area ---> BAD, UGLY, only techny will use it!
2) write a javascript-based "contenteditable" clone (which was posted
on this list a while back) using a *fake* caret built with CSS-ize
single characters --> HACK, SLOW, looks terrible!
Currently, mozilla has 'gecko' which does the rendering and 'editor'
which does all the text-editing stuff. I'm not sure *how* they got them
working together (I *hope* they didn't write two different rendering
systems!!!), but they should allow us to define (via an attribute, like
IE5.5+ does) to turn on the rendering system *right there*, just on the
places we want this operation to be turned on.
Why so?
well, mostly because the mozilla composer turns javascript off during
composition... thus, you need to use XUL <editor> but this is nothing
different from IE's <iframe> that Radio uses (and HotMail and so on),
but all the editing is there and all the rest is outside.
Editing granularity is simply too coarse.
It's all or nothing solution and it might work for weblogs, but for sure
it's not a solution that could scale to higher editing needs.
I would like to have the granularity to say 'this is editable' (say the
latest log in your weblog columns) but the rest is not... right there!,
no need for text fields, no need for weird things. Just *write* on your
page, like you would do on paper!
But with the extra plus of having your web page *tell you* where you
should be writing stuff and where you can't because either you are not
allowed to (because of your role: this is a must in workflow-based
editing environments, this empowers SoC!) or either because it doesn't
make sense (and the web designer doesn't want you to change things
around).
Moreover, having element-granular in-place editing, allows javascript to
remain on while the page is edited, because the javascript becomes part
of the 'structure' that guides your editing, unlike in the <editor> or
editing <iframe> where *everything* is editable, even the attributes...
but you normally don't need to edit attributes in those cases, only
change the text fields or add new elements.
Anyway, I'm about ready to dive into the mozilla code to add something
like this because I need it *very* badly, if you want to join, email me
privately.
--
Stefano Mazzocchi One must still have chaos in oneself to be
able to give birth to a dancing star.
<st...@apache.org> Friedrich Nietzsche
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