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Posted to user@ant.apache.org by Res Pons <po...@hotmail.com> on 2007/01/02 19:45:46 UTC

Re: Odd Behavior

Thanks for your reply.  I was using AnthillOS for a while but I gave up in 
frustration.  It's a kiddy tool for starters but very easy to use, however, 
the developers of it were so agonizingly slow to implement features, I gave 
up.  Now I'm reading on CruiseControl.  I read a bit about Maven but it 
seems to complicated and I'm a build/release engineer -  I found it an 
overkill.  But CC seems to be nice and up my alley.

----Original Message Follows----
From: Steve Loughran <st...@apache.org>
Reply-To: "Ant Users List" <us...@ant.apache.org>
To: Ant Users List <us...@ant.apache.org>
Subject: Re: Odd Behavior
Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2006 13:58:39 +0000

Res Pons wrote:
>I think I emailed Scott prematurely yesterday and it appears that both of 
>you may be right.  I'm seeing a different java compiler kicking in at night 
>when the cronjob starts.  I see gnu's being invoked by the cronjob and sun 
>jdk when I login and my .bash_profile is sourced.
>
>Thanks, I'll play around to see if I can fix it.

Its usualy down to different logins; cron runs in a different environment.

Have you considered a continuous integration tool like luntbuild, 
cruisecontrol or anthill. They tend to offer a better experience.

-steve

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Re: Odd Behavior

Posted by Steve Loughran <st...@apache.org>.
Alasdair Young wrote:
> Fixed it. (I spent 2 hours on this, and just after I hit send, I realise
> that there was one more place to check :)
> 
> cruise control has a cruisecontrol/lib directory with ant.jar in it. You
> need to ensure that ant.jar, ant-junit.jar and junit.jar are all the
> right versions and are all present in this directory.
> 
> - alasdair
> 

aah. thats annoying.

1. stick a <diagnostics> task into the build file so that it runs under 
CC. This is the same as running  -diagnostics on the command line, and 
shows you what ant things is going wrong, and what the build thinks its 
environment is.

2. upgrade (both versions) to ant1.7, which has better diagnostics when 
things dont load, and which can load junit off the <junit> code 
classpath, so you dont need it in ant home any more.

-steve


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Re: Odd Behavior

Posted by Steve Loughran <st...@apache.org>.
Alasdair Young wrote:
> I bought the book "Pragmatic Project Automation" and tried following the
> steps. (There is a free chapter online to do with CC)
> 
> Unfortunately this book is outdated and many of the examples do not
> work, use deprecated methods etc.
> 
> Getting CC working with subversion was also much more painful than it
> needed to be.

mmm. We have a patched version at work that uses the SVN Commits as the 
labels. this makes it easy to go from the web history to getting to a 
build that worked.

> 
> It _does_ work however, and it's actually a good tool. The web-based
> reports and simple emailing of build status work great. As I said, I
> will write up a HOWTO on the whole process once I'm finished with it.

And then maintain it, I hope :)

> - alasdair

I've gone over to luntbuild at work (and in Ant in Action :) for the 
following reasons

-its easy to install
-its easy to configure through the web (with some scalability problems 
on big projects)
-you can do scheduled builds "clean build and performance tests every 
night" alongside SVN-change driven events
-you can make builds depend on each other, so I build some app whenever 
another app is rebuilt (and passes its test)

the web gui doesnt work so well for maintenance once you have many 
projects, but that is something the luntbuild professional offers. 
Overall though, I found it to be the easiest CI tool to bring up *and 
keep running*.

I also use Gump a lot, where apache hosts and runs the open source 
builds. If you dont know of this, look at http://gump.apache.org. Its 
how the open source java projects stay in sync (mostly).

-steve


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Re: Odd Behavior

Posted by Alasdair Young <ay...@vigilos.com>.
I bought the book "Pragmatic Project Automation" and tried following the
steps. (There is a free chapter online to do with CC)

Unfortunately this book is outdated and many of the examples do not
work, use deprecated methods etc.

Getting CC working with subversion was also much more painful than it
needed to be.

It _does_ work however, and it's actually a good tool. The web-based
reports and simple emailing of build status work great. As I said, I
will write up a HOWTO on the whole process once I'm finished with it.

- alasdair

Res Pons wrote:
> Thanks for this info. It would definitely come handy should I decide
> to go with CC.  I find the CC's documentation somewhat outdated.
> There's no main/lib folder any longer, etc.  I need to subscribe to
> their forums.  I believe Steven mentioned he's using luntbuild, I am
> reading about it today.
>
> ----Original Message Follows----
> From: Alasdair Young <ay...@vigilos.com>
> Reply-To: "Ant Users List" <us...@ant.apache.org>
> To: Ant Users List <us...@ant.apache.org>
> Subject: Re: Odd Behavior
> Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2007 12:29:58 -0800
>
> Fixed it. (I spent 2 hours on this, and just after I hit send, I realise
> that there was one more place to check :)
>
> cruise control has a cruisecontrol/lib directory with ant.jar in it. You
> need to ensure that ant.jar, ant-junit.jar and junit.jar are all the
> right versions and are all present in this directory.
>
> - alasdair
>
> Alasdair Young wrote:
> > I'm currently attempting to set up cruise control just now and I agree
> > with the high maintainance aspect. My plan once I am finished is to
> > publish some step-by-step instrctions on getting subversion, CC, ant
> and
> > junit all working nicely together under FC6.
> >
> > I have an issue right now where, if I run "ant -f cc-build.xml" (this
> > downloads my source from svn, then calls the build script in another
> > directory) from the command line, everything works, but if I have
> cruise
> > control try, it gives me:
> >
> >
> >> BUILD FAILED
> >> /root/cruise/cruisecontrol-bin-2.5/projects/builds/cc-build.xml:15:
> >> The following error occurred while executing this line:
> >>
> /root/cruise/cruisecontrol-bin-2.5/projects/builds/checkout/src/java/build.xml:45:
>
> >> Could not create task or type of type: junit.
> >>
> >> Ant could not find the task or a class this task relies upon.
> >>
> >> This is common and has a number of causes; the usual
> >> solutions are to read the manual pages then download and
> >> install needed JAR files, or fix the build file:
> >>  - You have misspelt 'junit'.
> >>    Fix: check your spelling.
> >>  - The task needs an external JAR file to execute
> >>      and this is not found at the right place in the classpath.
> >>    Fix: check the documentation for dependencies.
> >>    Fix: declare the task.
> >>  - The task is an Ant optional task and the JAR file and/or libraries
> >>      implementing the functionality were not found at the time you
> >>      yourself built your installation of Ant from the Ant sources.
> >>    Fix: Look in the ANT_HOME/lib for the 'ant-' JAR corresponding
> to the
> >>      task and make sure it contains more than merely a
> >> META-INF/MANIFEST.MF.
> >>      If all it contains is the manifest, then rebuild Ant with the
> needed
> >>      libraries present in ${ant.home}/lib/optional/ , or
> alternatively,
> >>      download a pre-built release version from apache.org
> >>  - The build file was written for a later version of Ant
> >>    Fix: upgrade to at least the latest release version of Ant
> >>  - The task is not an Ant core or optional task
> >>      and needs to be declared using <taskdef>.
> >>  - You are attempting to use a task defined using
> >>     <presetdef> or <macrodef> but have spelt wrong or not
> >>    defined it at the point of use
> >>
> >> Remember that for JAR files to be visible to Ant tasks implemented
> >> in ANT_HOME/lib, the files must be in the same directory or on the
> >> classpath
> >>
> >> Please neither file bug reports on this problem, nor email the
> >> Ant mailing lists, until all of these causes have been explored,
> >> as this is not an Ant bug.
> >>
> >
> > I have checked every item in the list that was given. My $ANT_HOME
> > definately has both ant-junit.jat and junit.jar in the lib directory. I
> > am able to run junit tests via ant from the command line, butfor some
> > reason when I run it through cruise control, I get this error.
> >
> > Does anyone have an idea where I can look?
> >
> > I appreciate this isn't cruise-control-users, but clearly people try to
> > use CC and ant together.
> >
> > This is frustrating as I feel I am so close, yet I'm stumped.
> >
> > Also: will ant ever ship with things like subversion support, junit
> > support, ssh/scp support as standard so that many of these issues
> can be
> > avoided?
> >
> > Kind regards,
> >
> > - alasdair
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Steve Loughran wrote:
> >
> >> Res Pons wrote:
> >>
> >>> Thanks for your reply.  I was using AnthillOS for a while but I gave
> >>> up in frustration.  It's a kiddy tool for starters but very easy to
> >>> use, however, the developers of it were so agonizingly slow to
> >>> implement features, I gave up.  Now I'm reading on CruiseControl.  I
> >>> read a bit about Maven but it seems to complicated and I'm a
> >>> build/release engineer -  I found it an overkill.  But CC seems to be
> >>> nice and up my alley.
> >>>
> >>>
> >> We find CC a bit high-maintenance; I've been using luntbuild for a
> >> while and am fairly happy with it.
> >>
> >>
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: user-unsubscribe@ant.apache.org
> >> For additional commands, e-mail: user-help@ant.apache.org
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: user-unsubscribe@ant.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: user-help@ant.apache.org
> >
> >
> >
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: user-unsubscribe@ant.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: user-help@ant.apache.org
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> The MSN Entertainment Guide to Golden Globes is here.  Get all the
> scoop. http://tv.msn.com/tv/globes2007/?icid=nctagline2
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: user-unsubscribe@ant.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: user-help@ant.apache.org
>
>

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Re: Odd Behavior

Posted by Res Pons <po...@hotmail.com>.
Thanks for this info. It would definitely come handy should I decide to go 
with CC.  I find the CC's documentation somewhat outdated. There's no 
main/lib folder any longer, etc.  I need to subscribe to their forums.  I 
believe Steven mentioned he's using luntbuild, I am reading about it today.

----Original Message Follows----
From: Alasdair Young <ay...@vigilos.com>
Reply-To: "Ant Users List" <us...@ant.apache.org>
To: Ant Users List <us...@ant.apache.org>
Subject: Re: Odd Behavior
Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2007 12:29:58 -0800

Fixed it. (I spent 2 hours on this, and just after I hit send, I realise
that there was one more place to check :)

cruise control has a cruisecontrol/lib directory with ant.jar in it. You
need to ensure that ant.jar, ant-junit.jar and junit.jar are all the
right versions and are all present in this directory.

- alasdair

Alasdair Young wrote:
 > I'm currently attempting to set up cruise control just now and I agree
 > with the high maintainance aspect. My plan once I am finished is to
 > publish some step-by-step instrctions on getting subversion, CC, ant and
 > junit all working nicely together under FC6.
 >
 > I have an issue right now where, if I run "ant -f cc-build.xml" (this
 > downloads my source from svn, then calls the build script in another
 > directory) from the command line, everything works, but if I have cruise
 > control try, it gives me:
 >
 >
 >> BUILD FAILED
 >> /root/cruise/cruisecontrol-bin-2.5/projects/builds/cc-build.xml:15:
 >> The following error occurred while executing this line:
 >> 
/root/cruise/cruisecontrol-bin-2.5/projects/builds/checkout/src/java/build.xml:45:
 >> Could not create task or type of type: junit.
 >>
 >> Ant could not find the task or a class this task relies upon.
 >>
 >> This is common and has a number of causes; the usual
 >> solutions are to read the manual pages then download and
 >> install needed JAR files, or fix the build file:
 >>  - You have misspelt 'junit'.
 >>    Fix: check your spelling.
 >>  - The task needs an external JAR file to execute
 >>      and this is not found at the right place in the classpath.
 >>    Fix: check the documentation for dependencies.
 >>    Fix: declare the task.
 >>  - The task is an Ant optional task and the JAR file and/or libraries
 >>      implementing the functionality were not found at the time you
 >>      yourself built your installation of Ant from the Ant sources.
 >>    Fix: Look in the ANT_HOME/lib for the 'ant-' JAR corresponding to the
 >>      task and make sure it contains more than merely a
 >> META-INF/MANIFEST.MF.
 >>      If all it contains is the manifest, then rebuild Ant with the 
needed
 >>      libraries present in ${ant.home}/lib/optional/ , or alternatively,
 >>      download a pre-built release version from apache.org
 >>  - The build file was written for a later version of Ant
 >>    Fix: upgrade to at least the latest release version of Ant
 >>  - The task is not an Ant core or optional task
 >>      and needs to be declared using <taskdef>.
 >>  - You are attempting to use a task defined using
 >>     <presetdef> or <macrodef> but have spelt wrong or not
 >>    defined it at the point of use
 >>
 >> Remember that for JAR files to be visible to Ant tasks implemented
 >> in ANT_HOME/lib, the files must be in the same directory or on the
 >> classpath
 >>
 >> Please neither file bug reports on this problem, nor email the
 >> Ant mailing lists, until all of these causes have been explored,
 >> as this is not an Ant bug.
 >>
 >
 > I have checked every item in the list that was given. My $ANT_HOME
 > definately has both ant-junit.jat and junit.jar in the lib directory. I
 > am able to run junit tests via ant from the command line, butfor some
 > reason when I run it through cruise control, I get this error.
 >
 > Does anyone have an idea where I can look?
 >
 > I appreciate this isn't cruise-control-users, but clearly people try to
 > use CC and ant together.
 >
 > This is frustrating as I feel I am so close, yet I'm stumped.
 >
 > Also: will ant ever ship with things like subversion support, junit
 > support, ssh/scp support as standard so that many of these issues can be
 > avoided?
 >
 > Kind regards,
 >
 > - alasdair
 >
 >
 >
 >
 > Steve Loughran wrote:
 >
 >> Res Pons wrote:
 >>
 >>> Thanks for your reply.  I was using AnthillOS for a while but I gave
 >>> up in frustration.  It's a kiddy tool for starters but very easy to
 >>> use, however, the developers of it were so agonizingly slow to
 >>> implement features, I gave up.  Now I'm reading on CruiseControl.  I
 >>> read a bit about Maven but it seems to complicated and I'm a
 >>> build/release engineer -  I found it an overkill.  But CC seems to be
 >>> nice and up my alley.
 >>>
 >>>
 >> We find CC a bit high-maintenance; I've been using luntbuild for a
 >> while and am fairly happy with it.
 >>
 >>
 >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
 >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: user-unsubscribe@ant.apache.org
 >> For additional commands, e-mail: user-help@ant.apache.org
 >>
 >>
 >>
 >
 > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
 > To unsubscribe, e-mail: user-unsubscribe@ant.apache.org
 > For additional commands, e-mail: user-help@ant.apache.org
 >
 >
 >

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_________________________________________________________________
The MSN Entertainment Guide to Golden Globes is here.  Get all the scoop. 
http://tv.msn.com/tv/globes2007/?icid=nctagline2


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Re: Odd Behavior

Posted by Alasdair Young <ay...@vigilos.com>.
Fixed it. (I spent 2 hours on this, and just after I hit send, I realise
that there was one more place to check :)

cruise control has a cruisecontrol/lib directory with ant.jar in it. You
need to ensure that ant.jar, ant-junit.jar and junit.jar are all the
right versions and are all present in this directory.

- alasdair

Alasdair Young wrote:
> I'm currently attempting to set up cruise control just now and I agree
> with the high maintainance aspect. My plan once I am finished is to
> publish some step-by-step instrctions on getting subversion, CC, ant and
> junit all working nicely together under FC6.
>
> I have an issue right now where, if I run "ant -f cc-build.xml" (this
> downloads my source from svn, then calls the build script in another
> directory) from the command line, everything works, but if I have cruise
> control try, it gives me:
>
>   
>> BUILD FAILED
>> /root/cruise/cruisecontrol-bin-2.5/projects/builds/cc-build.xml:15:
>> The following error occurred while executing this line:
>> /root/cruise/cruisecontrol-bin-2.5/projects/builds/checkout/src/java/build.xml:45:
>> Could not create task or type of type: junit.
>>
>> Ant could not find the task or a class this task relies upon.
>>
>> This is common and has a number of causes; the usual
>> solutions are to read the manual pages then download and
>> install needed JAR files, or fix the build file:
>>  - You have misspelt 'junit'.
>>    Fix: check your spelling.
>>  - The task needs an external JAR file to execute
>>      and this is not found at the right place in the classpath.
>>    Fix: check the documentation for dependencies.
>>    Fix: declare the task.
>>  - The task is an Ant optional task and the JAR file and/or libraries
>>      implementing the functionality were not found at the time you
>>      yourself built your installation of Ant from the Ant sources.
>>    Fix: Look in the ANT_HOME/lib for the 'ant-' JAR corresponding to the
>>      task and make sure it contains more than merely a
>> META-INF/MANIFEST.MF.
>>      If all it contains is the manifest, then rebuild Ant with the needed
>>      libraries present in ${ant.home}/lib/optional/ , or alternatively,
>>      download a pre-built release version from apache.org
>>  - The build file was written for a later version of Ant
>>    Fix: upgrade to at least the latest release version of Ant
>>  - The task is not an Ant core or optional task
>>      and needs to be declared using <taskdef>.
>>  - You are attempting to use a task defined using
>>     <presetdef> or <macrodef> but have spelt wrong or not
>>    defined it at the point of use
>>
>> Remember that for JAR files to be visible to Ant tasks implemented
>> in ANT_HOME/lib, the files must be in the same directory or on the
>> classpath
>>
>> Please neither file bug reports on this problem, nor email the
>> Ant mailing lists, until all of these causes have been explored,
>> as this is not an Ant bug.
>>     
>
> I have checked every item in the list that was given. My $ANT_HOME
> definately has both ant-junit.jat and junit.jar in the lib directory. I
> am able to run junit tests via ant from the command line, butfor some
> reason when I run it through cruise control, I get this error.
>
> Does anyone have an idea where I can look?
>
> I appreciate this isn't cruise-control-users, but clearly people try to
> use CC and ant together.
>
> This is frustrating as I feel I am so close, yet I'm stumped.
>
> Also: will ant ever ship with things like subversion support, junit
> support, ssh/scp support as standard so that many of these issues can be
> avoided?
>
> Kind regards,
>
> - alasdair
>
>
>
>
> Steve Loughran wrote:
>   
>> Res Pons wrote:
>>     
>>> Thanks for your reply.  I was using AnthillOS for a while but I gave
>>> up in frustration.  It's a kiddy tool for starters but very easy to
>>> use, however, the developers of it were so agonizingly slow to
>>> implement features, I gave up.  Now I'm reading on CruiseControl.  I
>>> read a bit about Maven but it seems to complicated and I'm a
>>> build/release engineer -  I found it an overkill.  But CC seems to be
>>> nice and up my alley.
>>>
>>>       
>> We find CC a bit high-maintenance; I've been using luntbuild for a
>> while and am fairly happy with it.
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: user-unsubscribe@ant.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: user-help@ant.apache.org
>>
>>
>>     
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: user-unsubscribe@ant.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: user-help@ant.apache.org
>
>
>   

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Re: Odd Behavior

Posted by Alasdair Young <ay...@vigilos.com>.
I'm currently attempting to set up cruise control just now and I agree
with the high maintainance aspect. My plan once I am finished is to
publish some step-by-step instrctions on getting subversion, CC, ant and
junit all working nicely together under FC6.

I have an issue right now where, if I run "ant -f cc-build.xml" (this
downloads my source from svn, then calls the build script in another
directory) from the command line, everything works, but if I have cruise
control try, it gives me:

> BUILD FAILED
> /root/cruise/cruisecontrol-bin-2.5/projects/builds/cc-build.xml:15:
> The following error occurred while executing this line:
> /root/cruise/cruisecontrol-bin-2.5/projects/builds/checkout/src/java/build.xml:45:
> Could not create task or type of type: junit.
>
> Ant could not find the task or a class this task relies upon.
>
> This is common and has a number of causes; the usual
> solutions are to read the manual pages then download and
> install needed JAR files, or fix the build file:
>  - You have misspelt 'junit'.
>    Fix: check your spelling.
>  - The task needs an external JAR file to execute
>      and this is not found at the right place in the classpath.
>    Fix: check the documentation for dependencies.
>    Fix: declare the task.
>  - The task is an Ant optional task and the JAR file and/or libraries
>      implementing the functionality were not found at the time you
>      yourself built your installation of Ant from the Ant sources.
>    Fix: Look in the ANT_HOME/lib for the 'ant-' JAR corresponding to the
>      task and make sure it contains more than merely a
> META-INF/MANIFEST.MF.
>      If all it contains is the manifest, then rebuild Ant with the needed
>      libraries present in ${ant.home}/lib/optional/ , or alternatively,
>      download a pre-built release version from apache.org
>  - The build file was written for a later version of Ant
>    Fix: upgrade to at least the latest release version of Ant
>  - The task is not an Ant core or optional task
>      and needs to be declared using <taskdef>.
>  - You are attempting to use a task defined using
>     <presetdef> or <macrodef> but have spelt wrong or not
>    defined it at the point of use
>
> Remember that for JAR files to be visible to Ant tasks implemented
> in ANT_HOME/lib, the files must be in the same directory or on the
> classpath
>
> Please neither file bug reports on this problem, nor email the
> Ant mailing lists, until all of these causes have been explored,
> as this is not an Ant bug.

I have checked every item in the list that was given. My $ANT_HOME
definately has both ant-junit.jat and junit.jar in the lib directory. I
am able to run junit tests via ant from the command line, butfor some
reason when I run it through cruise control, I get this error.

Does anyone have an idea where I can look?

I appreciate this isn't cruise-control-users, but clearly people try to
use CC and ant together.

This is frustrating as I feel I am so close, yet I'm stumped.

Also: will ant ever ship with things like subversion support, junit
support, ssh/scp support as standard so that many of these issues can be
avoided?

Kind regards,

- alasdair




Steve Loughran wrote:
> Res Pons wrote:
>> Thanks for your reply.  I was using AnthillOS for a while but I gave
>> up in frustration.  It's a kiddy tool for starters but very easy to
>> use, however, the developers of it were so agonizingly slow to
>> implement features, I gave up.  Now I'm reading on CruiseControl.  I
>> read a bit about Maven but it seems to complicated and I'm a
>> build/release engineer -  I found it an overkill.  But CC seems to be
>> nice and up my alley.
>>
>
> We find CC a bit high-maintenance; I've been using luntbuild for a
> while and am fairly happy with it.
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: user-unsubscribe@ant.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: user-help@ant.apache.org
>
>

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Re: Odd Behavior

Posted by Res Pons <po...@hotmail.com>.
Yes, after reading the CC's manual yesterday, I agree and find it cumbersome 
and hight maint too.  I will look at lundtbuild. Thanks.

----Original Message Follows----
From: Steve Loughran <st...@apache.org>
Reply-To: "Ant Users List" <us...@ant.apache.org>
To: Ant Users List <us...@ant.apache.org>
Subject: Re: Odd Behavior
Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2007 13:41:47 +0000

Res Pons wrote:
>Thanks for your reply.  I was using AnthillOS for a while but I gave up in 
>frustration.  It's a kiddy tool for starters but very easy to use, however, 
>the developers of it were so agonizingly slow to implement features, I gave 
>up.  Now I'm reading on CruiseControl.  I read a bit about Maven but it 
>seems to complicated and I'm a build/release engineer -  I found it an 
>overkill.  But CC seems to be nice and up my alley.
>

We find CC a bit high-maintenance; I've been using luntbuild for a while and 
am fairly happy with it.


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Re: Odd Behavior

Posted by Steve Loughran <st...@apache.org>.
Res Pons wrote:
> Thanks for your reply.  I was using AnthillOS for a while but I gave up 
> in frustration.  It's a kiddy tool for starters but very easy to use, 
> however, the developers of it were so agonizingly slow to implement 
> features, I gave up.  Now I'm reading on CruiseControl.  I read a bit 
> about Maven but it seems to complicated and I'm a build/release engineer 
> -  I found it an overkill.  But CC seems to be nice and up my alley.
> 

We find CC a bit high-maintenance; I've been using luntbuild for a while 
and am fairly happy with it.


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