Tuscany weekly IRC chat log December 18, 2006

[Simon Nash <na...@hursley.ibm.com>]

Apologies for the delay in posting this because of the holdays.  Also, there
may be a bit of missing discussion before and after I joined.  The discussion
was focused on getting the new Web site into shape for the SCA Java M2 launch.

   Simon

<murphdg> (i=murphdg@@nat/ibm/x-6c500df22064f9c1) has joined the room at Mon Dec 18 16:34:58 GMT 2006.
[16:36] <jboynes> simonnash: hi
[16:36] <jboynes> thanks for closing the incubator vote :)
[16:37] <jboynes> I've copied the distro files to the dist site but I've not updated the website yet
[16:37] > hi.  np.  i was pleased that we got the 3 +1s and didn't start threads leading all over the place.
[16:37] <jboynes> yes indeedy
[16:37] <simonnash> yes I'd like to spend time today talking about what we do with the web sote
[16:38] <jboynes> one of the least dicussive votes I've seen
[16:38] <simonnash> not sure whether that's good or bad :-)
[16:38] <jboynes> I think its the holidays and people have better things to do
[16:38] <jboynes> ;)
[16:39] <simonnash> on the web site, venkat did a lot of work and I put some matgerial on the wiki yesterday.  we ned to decide which of these changes we will make live
when we create the download links.
[16:40] <simonnash> i know about the holiday effect.  we just squeezed in for the vote before everyone left.
[16:45] <simonnash> i would like to add my Getting Started material to the web site but I am not sure whether to produce a patch that is a delta to what is there currently or do
it as an update to Venkat's changes. (or both maybe)
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[16:46] <jsdelfino> hi
[16:47] <simonnash> it is more work to merge it into venkat's material as there is a bit of overlap in places.  But I am OK with doing this if we are agreed that we should accept
Venkat's changes.  The discussion on this did not seem to close on the mailing list.
[16:48] <simonnash> anyone have views on this?
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[16:49] <ant_> i'm for going with venkats new site now and then changing it as reqd over time
[16:52] <jboynes> works for me
[16:52] <simonnash> anyone not agree with this?
[16:52] <kgoodson> sounds god to me
[16:52] <kgoodson> good
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[16:54] <simonnash> hi venkat
[16:54] <simonnash> we are just discussing the Web site
[16:55] <Venkat> Hi ... my sincere apologies... for turning up late...
[16:55] <simonnash> seems like folks are OK with moving to the new web site that you have been doing.
[16:55] <Venkat> just posted a mail in reply to Jeremy's.. on the artifacts
[16:56] <Venkat> what abt the links 'Releases' and FAQ for each of SCA, SDO and DAS.. shall I go ahead with that
[16:56] <simonnash> just reading it now
[16:56] <lresende> one quick question on the website, Venkat's site was based on a old snapshot of the website, and we are going to make necessary
changes/updates basically going for the new structure of the left outline, is this riht ?
[16:57] <Venkat> lresende: here it is http://people.apache.org/~rfeng/tuscany/site-publish/
[16:57] <Venkat> this is what is proposed
[16:57] <simonnash> Venkat, your proposal sounds good to me.  let's work together on merging in my Getting Started material into what you have already done.
[16:58] <Venkat> ok...
[16:59] <Venkat> so let me understand the release artifact stuff.... what needs to be done is update the Downloads page of SCA ... right...
[16:59] <Venkat> with a table that lists all of these artifacts... right
[16:59] <simonnash> yes
[16:59] <simonnash> i listed them all in my Getting Started
[17:00] <simonnash> i also listed the nmaven ones.. but these would not be mentioned on the download page
[17:00] <Venkat> ok..
[17:00] <lresende> Venkat:so,this url you sent me has some old stuff, like the structure for the download pages,
[17:01] <lresende> i think the biggest proposed changes is the outline on the left replacing the tabs on the top
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[17:01] <Venkat> right...
[17:01] <lresende> so, probably would make sense to take a new snapshot of the current website and re-apply your chages
[17:01] <lresende> is that the idea ?
[17:01] <lresende> as I also joined the chat late
[17:02] <Venkat> yes.. that might need to be done as there has been updates after I picked up the last time... for eg. the SDO and DAS downloads and releases
[17:02] <Venkat> also what about the content for a separate page on Releases...
[17:02] <Venkat> for each of SCA, SDO and DAS...
[17:03] <simonnash> i looked at checkins for the site after Venkat's snapshot.  there don't seem to be many.  it might be easier to apply these to what Venkat has.  whichever
is less work.
[17:03] <murphdg> I think seperating download components makes some sense - when I last looked there were loads of links and a little hard to find what I was
after
[17:05] <lresende> simonnash: sure, as long as there is some kind of merges
[17:05] <simonnash> is htere a Releases page already?  i think I saw one somewhere.
[17:05] <lresende> the downloads
[17:05] <lresende> http://incubator.apache.org/tuscany/downloads.html
[17:05] <lresende> is that what you are looking for ?
[17:06] <Venkat> AFAICT.. there has never been a Release page... just Downloads
[17:06] <simonnash> ok, i am looking at Venkat's new site.  he has split the downloads in that into separate SCA/SDO/DAS pages
[17:07] <murphdg> good - it was the existing page I was referrring to
[17:07] <simonnash> i was wondering if it useful to have page listing all releases that we have done as a project (not with every downloadable file).  maybe this is the News
page.
[17:08] <simonnash> Venkat, you site has broken links from the News page
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[17:08] <simonnash> there are links to each of the releases but they refer to an obsolete nonexistent page
[17:10] <Venkat> if you are looking at what I had posted... yes those things will need updates from the current site...
[17:11] <simonnash> i also found a Java Project page linked from the News page.  it has some very useful material.  But I don't know where its normal place in the hierarchy
is.
[17:11] <Venkat> I think that has always been grouped under development
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[17:12] <Venkat> see box titled Development on the left navigation
[17:12] <simonnash> found it now,  almost at the bottom of the left sidebar
[17:12] <simonnash> thanks
[17:13] <murphdg> I guess the only minor point with Venkats changes is that the left hand side navigation is quite long... seems to fit fine on my 1600x1400
screen, anyone tried it on a (much) lower resolution ?
[17:14] <simonnash> is this supposed to be generic across SCA, SDO, DAS for java?  the build instructions seem to go back to whether we only had one build for all of these.
[17:14] <jsdelfino> can somebody paste again the link to venkat's site?
[17:14] <Venkat> murphdg: yes, so in M3 I hope to get to the Tabs - SCA, SDO and DAS..  where each tab will strictly deal with things related to one of SCA, DAS,
SDO..
[17:15] <Venkat> much like the current website in terms of looks but the SCA page will have nothing related to SDO..
[17:15] <simonnash> sorry that was  ...back to when we...
[17:16] <simonnash> http://people.apache.org/~rfeng/tuscany/site-publish/index.html
[17:17] <jsdelfino> looks strange on my firefox / linux, I'll post a screen cap in a sec
[17:17] <murphdg> (alt for long navigation) one could colapse the sections people aren't currently on - but retain the top level....
[17:18] <simonnash> the build section of the Tuscany Java development page definitely needs updating.  there is a broken link in this section as well as obsolete
instructions.
[17:18] <murphdg> but it is better than the someone confusing current layout... gets a +1 from me :)
[17:19] <simonnash> sorry, i misspoke.  the broken link is in the Running Samples section that follows the Building section
[17:19] <simonnash> i think the left bar is fine as is.  god to see the whole top level structure
[17:19] <simonnash> .good to see..
[17:20] <murphdg> (have a good xmas all - I've got a karate lesson about to start....)
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[17:21] <jsdelfino> here's a screen cap of the site in my environment:
http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/tuscany/sandbox/sebastien/site/tuscany.jpg
[17:21] <simonnash> for this iteration i suggest we focus on getting the material as complete and correct as we can.  layout/format changes can be done later.
[17:22] <jsdelfino> looks like the green header bars are of a fixed size, so bigger fonts spill over them
[17:22] <simonnash> that is pretty nasty looking :-(
[17:22] <jsdelfino> yep
[17:22] <simonnash> so i take back my previous comment.  fixing this is important
[17:23] <Venkat> yes.. its because of the fonts...
[17:23] <simonnash> jsdelfino, was this a problem with the old site?
[17:23] <jsdelfino> IMO the web site needs to be tested with firefox, IE, and safari, on Linux, Windows and MacOS
[17:25] <jsdelfino> the old site doesn't have this problem on the left panel, I think that the headers are just images (the text is part of the image)
[17:25] <Venkat> right...
[17:25] <simonnash> i tried the old site in my browser.  the problem does not occur because the old site does not try to scale all the text
[17:25] <simonnash> it looks a bit odd but nothing overflows
[17:25] <Venkat> they are all images... I changed that because to change a text you must have to create an image...
[17:26] <jsdelfino> however, the top bar doesn't look great, the p and the y in apache tuscany spill over the bottom of the background image
[17:26] <jsdelfino> but it's not as bad
[17:26] <jsdelfino> I think the answer is to scale the background images
[17:27] <jsdelfino> so you can keep background images, and real text, but scale the images
[17:27] <simonnash> how hard is that?
[17:27] <jsdelfino> something like size=100% instead of size=123pixels
[17:27] <simonnash> the old site did not do that.  seems like we are taking on more work
[17:27] <simonnash> fine if it's easy
[17:28] <jsdelfino> something like that, I forgot the exact html syntax
[17:28] <jsdelfino> and less work than redoing the images when u change the text
[17:28] <simonnash> i need to join a call in 2 mins..  i will stay on this chat but may become distracted
[17:29] <Venkat> jsdelfino: thanks.. will figure that out...
[17:29] <jsdelfino> let me know when you change it, I can test again on Linux, would be nice if somebody could test on Max
[17:29] <jsdelfino> Mac
[17:30] <Venkat> jsdelfino: what is the resolution you are using....
[17:30] <jsdelfino> 1450
[17:31] <jsdelfino> I guess
[17:32] <jboynes> it looks ok on safari
[17:32] <jboynes> 2560x1600 resolution
[17:34] <simonnash> lucky you :-)
[17:35] <jboynes> :0
[17:35] <Venkat> i am using firefox on windows and it seems fine... with 1024x768
[17:35] <jboynes> :)
[17:36] <Venkat> anyways.. let me take a look at the widths and make them relative...
[17:36] <jboynes> ok on firefox, except the site menu tezxt is different
[17:37] <jboynes> on safair, it's sans-serif, on firefox it's a serif font
[17:41] <Venkat> ok.. so finally... are we going with what I have proposed.. if so I can go and start work on that... getting content to sync with current site ... work on
this font problem and add a few more links
[17:41] <Venkat> ?
[17:42] <simonnash> yes
[17:44] <jsdelfino> sounds like a good plan to me
[17:44] <simonnash> i will reply on the list.. to keep this official :-)
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[17:44] <Venkat> I will start a new thread for this...
[17:45] <Venkat> so that its not mixed between the mails that Simon and Jeremy has posted...
[17:45] <Venkat> please reply to that then... ?
[17:46] <jsdelfino> Venkat, can you please make sure that you include the last updates on the C++ page?
[17:47] <Venkat> well... not only that.. I am going to look at all of it.. because there has been SDO, DAS releases as well...
[17:47] <jsdelfino> ok :)
[17:47] <Venkat> so that is what I meant by the sync up
[17:47] <jsdelfino> ok
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[18:00] <simonnash> Venkat: sorry, was distracted by my other call.  yes, please start a new thread describing the proposal from this chat and I will reply to that
[18:00] <Venkat> ok.. thanks everybody... am logging off now.. :)
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[18:03] <simonnash> me too.. need to leave early today.  bye.



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