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Posted to dev@cloudstack.apache.org by David Nalley <da...@gnsa.us> on 2012/10/03 21:01:39 UTC
logs from IRC meeting
12:56 < topcloud> yeah i made it on time this time!
12:56 * Spark404 applauds
12:56 * ke4qqq tries to go get coffee - and notes that unless someone
else brings a meetbot there won't be one
12:59 < topcloud> My agenda items for this meeting:
13:00 < topcloud> Can we submit for release to PMC on Friday (pending
QA testing completion)?
13:00 < topcloud> Are there any items that are still not where we want it to be?
13:01 < chipc> ke4qqq - don't have one, sorry
13:01 < chipc> but I am logging
13:01 < ke4qqq> chipc: no worries - same here - it just won't be as
pretty as meetbots, but that is ok
13:01 < topcloud> New user experience post 4.0 release.
13:02 < ke4qqq> so - IMO - you can propose a release and call for a
vote when you feel it's ready topcloud
13:03 < chipc> suggestion on that - the best practice I've seen is to
start a DISCUSS thread to get feedback first
13:03 < ke4qqq> (assuming that you are going to be acting as release
manager and present us with a release to look at)
13:03 < chipc> but perhaps it's time to start that thread
13:04 < bhaisaab> +1
13:04 < chipc> topcloud - to do the release manager thing, you'll need a GPG key
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13:04 < chipc> I'm more than happy to do the final bits if you want though
13:04 < ke4qqq> and it needs to be in KEYS
13:05 < topcloud> chipc - appreciated....i don't mind doing the final
bits but I'm on vacation next week so if you can do that would be
better.
13:05 < chipc> no problem
13:05 < chipc> ke4qqq - want to start of officially?
13:05 < topcloud> That's actually my last agenda item. I'm on
vacation next week and I like to setup contingency plan on who takes
over as release manager if
something comes up.
13:06 < chipc> (topcloud - you deserve the break)
13:06 < ke4qqq> sure - lets get started - I am contrarian - so lets go
in reverse alphabetical order
13:06 [Users #cloudstack-meeting]
13:06 [ bhaisaab] [ cloudbot-name] [ iswc ] [ nslater ] [ techpubs] [ widodh]
13:06 [ chipc ] [ edison_cs ] [ ke4qqq] [ Spark404] [ topcloud]
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13:06 < ke4qqq> widodh: ??
13:06 * ke4qqq hasn't seen him around - so moving on - topcloud -
lets finish out your issues
13:07 < chipc> ok - so for the release submission - suggest that I
start a thread to gather any outstanding concerns today
13:07 < ke4qqq> chipc: willing to bear the mantle that topcloud leaves
behind in his quest for vacation?
13:07 < chipc> if OK, and if QA wrapps with no blockers, I can do the
build and propose the release on Friday
13:07 < chipc> yes
13:07 < topcloud> thanks chip!
13:08 < chipc> so to the question of "what's left"
13:08 < chipc> so to the question of "what's left"
13:08 < topcloud> I've been listing three things as blockers.
13:08 < chipc> yeah… do we know where the export filiing is?
13:08 < topcloud> 1. legal and license - which seems to be all resolved now.
13:09 < topcloud> export filing will be done by dave by tomorrow.
13:09 < topcloud> 2. QA testing not completed.
13:09 < topcloud> My understanding is it should be done by Friday.
13:09 < chipc> that's what I saw in the update
13:09 < topcloud> 3. Docs not completed.
13:09 < ke4qqq> chipc: joe or I or both of us, are just going to file
- it's not something we want, but we'll do it because it seems the
path of least resistance at
this point.
13:10 < chipc> ke4qqq: agreed, I think that's the right path for now
13:10 < chipc> techpubs: how are the docs coming?
13:10 < topcloud> Jessica and Dave believe it will be done by Friday.
Even if it isn't I don't believe it's a problem because it is going to
be online docs.
13:10 < techpubs> Which docs are not completed from your perspective?
(I have my own list of course)
13:10 < ke4qqq> chipc: so docs 'site' is up - no docs have been
published there yet - http://incubator.apache.org/cloudstack/docs
13:10 < topcloud> Basically everything filed in Jira + Caringo and Nicira
13:11 * ke4qqq thinks hugo submitted docs for NVP - i just saw a commit fly by
13:11 < Spark404> indeed
13:11 < techpubs> Yes I met with Hugo yesterday on that
13:11 < techpubs> Gave a little docbook tutorial
13:11 < topcloud> cool!
13:11 < techpubs> yep it was
13:11 < techpubs> So, I can take care of getting the content into the
repo, docs-wise. Who can take care of getting it onto that new doc
site?
13:12 < techpubs> Or can I have upload permish on that server?
13:12 < techpubs> Or do I already :)
13:12 < ke4qqq> techpubs: I can, but any committer can already
13:12 < ke4qqq> I've got a draft site running at
http://people.apache.org/~ke4qqq/docs2/
13:12 < chipc> looks good
13:13 < ke4qqq> i am having a problem with the install guide building
though - and have some changes to push up
13:13 < techpubs> Can we write down the procedure, like how to log in
to that server/where it is, etc. so no one person is a bottleneck?
13:13 < topcloud> Other than those three, I don't see any others.
I've asked several times on the list already to identify other
blockers but I don't see any.
13:13 < techpubs> Oh yes, I missed checking in one file yesterday. I
can fix that :)
13:13 < techpubs> Sorry I broke the docs temporarily
13:13 < chipc> topcloud: agreed - we'll ask one last time
13:13 < ke4qqq> techpubs: yes - it's all cms - so it's committing
stuff to SVN, waiting on buildbot, looking at staging and then
publishing
13:14 < ke4qqq> but I'll get docs written for that
13:14 < techpubs> Great, just slap that in the "how to work with docs"
wiki page or somewhere
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13:14 < ke4qqq> all right - anything else we need to talk about
topcloud or are we ready to move on?
13:15 < topcloud> the next item I have is user experience post 4.0 release.
13:15 < ke4qqq> ok
13:15 < topcloud> There are a number of websites now.
13:15 < topcloud> and the new way of taking source packages
13:15 < topcloud> and also non-oss
13:15 < topcloud> I like to draw up a storyboard for a new user coming
to cloudstack after the 4.0 release
13:16 < bhaisaab> sort of some into to acs video?
13:16 < topcloud> and we'll fill out all the appropriate links.
13:16 < bhaisaab> *intro
13:16 < topcloud> sorry..bhaisaab...not as high tech as
that...although that's a great idea.
13:16 < chipc> topcloud: so you're concerned about the person that
wants the bits - how to get it?
13:17 < topcloud> i'm mainly talking about where they go for information.
13:17 < chipc> Fair
13:17 < chipc> I would have LOVED if we could have moved
cloudstack.org to redirect to http://incubator.apache.org/cloudstack/
as part of 4.0
13:17 < chipc> think there's any chance of that happening?
13:18 < ke4qqq> chipc: all you can do is ask
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13:18 < chipc> I'll bring it up on the list again
13:18 < chipc> that would clarify things for people I think
13:18 < topcloud> chipc: I would love to do it.
13:18 < chipc> new release - new site
13:18 < topcloud> chipc: what you're proposing.
13:19 < Spark404> chipc: +1
13:19 < chipc> ok - so I'll email the list about that - one of you
Citrix folks is going to need to pull the trigger and do it though!
13:19 < ke4qqq> chipc: we have the power - there just needs to be the
'authority' to push it
13:19 < topcloud> I will start a discussion on the list about this.
Mainly to highlight a new user's entry points and the list of things
what a user can do.
13:19 < techpubs> Want to redirect docs.cloudstack.org also.
13:20 < techpubs> ??
13:20 < topcloud> I like to get everyone's help in filling out the
details. If we can do the new site, even better!
13:20 < chipc> techpubs: yes - to the docs site at ASF
13:20 < chipc> topcloud: we'll have links to the source and wido's
package depos on the download page
13:20 < chipc> and if we simply have the docs there for 4.0, we have
covered the major stuff
13:20 < topcloud> ok...so my agenda items are done if we decide to
take this to the list.
13:21 < chipc> let's
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13:21 < ke4qqq> sounds good - so moving on.... techpubs have anything
else for us today?
13:21 [Users #cloudstack-meeting]
13:21 [ bhaisaab] [ cloudbot-name] [ iswc ] [ ke4qqq ] [ Sailaja ] [
techpubs]
13:21 [ chipc ] [ edison_cs ] [ kdamage] [ nslater] [ Spark404] [
widodh ]
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13:22 < techpubs> I am going through all the admin guide and install guide files
13:22 < techpubs> Making sure I have checked my most recent stuff in to the repo
13:22 < techpubs> We do need to create more doc builds on jenkins: one
for admin guide, one for install guide, one for developer guide
13:22 < ke4qqq> ok - whats your plan for getting what is in master to 4.0?
13:22 < ke4qqq> techpubs: I can take that as an action item
13:23 < techpubs> You mean for moving to the right branch -- thanks, I
was going to ask if someone could own that
13:23 < techpubs> So for moving the files to the 4.0 branch, I was
under the impression Alex was on it
13:23 < techpubs> Let's see who the bug is assigned to...
13:23 < chipc> topcloud: are you able to get to that?
13:24 < topcloud> chipc: I logged out for a minute there so I lost all
the links....Get to what?
13:25 < chipc> techpubs asked if you were on point to move the docs
from master to 4.0
13:25 < topcloud> oh sure.
13:25 < topcloud> I think techpubs can simply cherry-pick over. For
docs, I'm more flexible.
13:26 < topcloud> techpubs: If you're not sure how to do it, I can
come show you.
13:26 < ke4qqq> topcloud: that would be painful - /me is thinking just
diff the two branches for docs directory
13:26 < ke4qqq> lots of docs checkins between the two branches fwiw
13:27 < topcloud> ke4qqq: ic....let's sync up while you're here on how
to do it after this meeting then.
13:27 < ke4qqq> topcloud: ok
13:27 < techpubs> I'm wondering how install.txt is coming along
13:28 < ke4qqq> who are you wondering that of?
13:28 < topcloud> install.txt has been changed to just refer to the links.
13:28 < bhaisaab> it's install.md now, it contains links to wiki,
easier for anyone to just get the latest info
13:28 < topcloud> so we'll just have everything online rather than
have a static file.
13:29 < techpubs> Sounds much better.
13:29 < techpubs> So are the wiki pages it points to all updated with
the new install from source procedure? Who has tested/reviewed that?
13:29 < chipc> so that isn't in master
13:29 < chipc> and 4.0 still has the INSTALL.txt
13:29 * ke4qqq goes off to look
13:29 < chipc> bhaisaab: did your review request get committed?
13:29 < topcloud> chipc: my bad for not picking it over.
13:30 < bhaisaab> chipc: yes, oh, needs to be picked on 4.0
13:30 < topcloud> chipc: will do so after the meeting. I committed
the change but I must have forgot to pick it over. thanks for
checking.
13:30 < bhaisaab> it's in master though
13:30 < chipc> ah - ok
13:30 < chipc> so are we good on INSTALL.md now then?
13:31 < topcloud> +1
13:31 < chipc> and how about a release notes / news file?
13:31 < chipc> I would like to ensure that we have that as a top level
file in the source
13:31 < techpubs> Radhika PC in Bangalore is on the release notes
13:31 < ke4qqq> how much would you like to ensure it? :)
13:32 < chipc> ke4qqq: happy to do it, but I knew someone (Radjika
apparently) was already working on the content
13:32 < techpubs> If you want any exciting news in the RNs, please
communicate w/her in email (she's on cloudstack-dev) or by comments in
the bug
13:32 < chipc> also happy to take over… but is there an ETA from Radhika?
13:32 < ke4qqq> chipc: so I am not saying that it isn't workable, but
look at release notes output - it's not what Ihave typically seen in a
NEWS file
13:33 < ke4qqq> chipc: just want to ensure that expectations are the same
13:33 < ke4qqq> or met
13:33 < chipc> where's the working copy?
13:33 < ke4qqq> chipc: I'll gen one quickly and post it
13:33 < chipc> *lazy search via IRC*
13:33 < chipc> thx
13:33 < techpubs> The release notes Radhika is working on would be a
slightly different version of the Citrix CloudPlatform 3.0.5 Release
Notes
13:34 < chipc> happy to take it as a starting point, and perhaps have
a simplified version added to the source
13:34 < chipc> I'll make sure that we get a simplified source level
NEWS file then
13:34 < ke4qqq> bah - techpubs release notes aren't building right now
13:34 < techpubs> See the release notes bug, it's CLOUDSTACK-5. The
need for a NEWS file might be a different thing entirely.
13:35 < topcloud> should we also move release notes online?
13:35 < ke4qqq> topcloud: that's the plan - I moved the docs i could
build without issue to my test site
13:35 < ke4qqq> still a few issues to work out, but nothing major
13:36 < topcloud> ke4qqq: cool...thx
13:36 < chipc> oh gosh - now I see what we're talking about
13:36 < chipc> ok, let me try to do a simplified one
13:37 < chipc> and if it's not worth it, then I'll shut up and kill my
own idea ;-)
13:37 < techpubs> ke4qqq: I don't think the release notes have a build
job set up right now, do they? Or are you saying the docbook file has
errors and won't build?
13:37 * ke4qqq thinks it's a good idea - but don't think the current
RN == NEWS content
13:37 < ke4qqq> techpubs: the latter
13:37 < chipc> I just came to that realization
13:37 < ke4qqq> I just tried to build it from source
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13:39 < ke4qqq> ok - techpubs ready for us to move on?
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13:39 [ bhaisaab ] [ edison_cs] [ kdamage] [ Spark404] [ widodh]
13:39 [ chipc ] [ iswc ] [ ke4qqq ] [ techpubs]
13:39 [ cloudbot-name] [ jlkinsel ] [ nslater] [ topcloud]
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13:40 < techpubs> Pretty much, except
13:40 < techpubs> I don't think we even have a
release-notes-whatever.xml file in the repo, so what're you building?
Or am I just overlooking the file?
13:40 < techpubs> OK, move on.
13:40 < ke4qqq> techpubs: it's there
13:41 < ke4qqq> ok - so Spark404 what do you have for us today?
13:41 < Spark404> maven discussion :-)
13:41 < Spark404> nothing to do with the 4.0 release, but i would like
to break the ant build in 4.1.x
13:41 < Spark404> for so far as i didn't already
13:42 < Spark404> but its going to be hard to move forward with maven
and keep supporting the ant build at the same time
13:42 < chipc> probably best said on list… but I wouldn't object
13:42 < chipc> looking forward to the conversion being complete
13:42 < chipc> (nice work)
13:42 < ke4qqq> no objection, but please provide a warning I think -
and yes def on list
13:42 < chipc> Spark404: did you catch the note from teh guys at Basho?
13:42 * ke4qqq assumes it will still be buildable with maven?
13:42 < topcloud> different branch?
13:43 < jlkinsel> different branch might be good
13:43 < Spark404> ke4qqq: yup, completely with systemvm, awsapi and everything
13:43 < ke4qqq> ohhh so this isn't breaking the build it's just doing
away with ant
13:43 < chipc> the basho folks were asking for some support… they are
doing good stuff with devcloud
13:43 < topcloud> oh ok...got it.
13:43 < ke4qqq> ??
13:43 < Spark404> ke4qqq: yeah, tho only thin missing is making
packages and people working with the maven build
13:44 < edison_cs> chipc: haven't reply basho;s email yet
13:44 * ke4qqq does think list is the next place this convo should go
- but no objection in principle from me - just advance warning and new
instructions ready before
ant is defenestrated
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13:44 [ bhaisaab ] [ edison_cs] [ kdamage] [ Spark404 ] [ widodh]
13:44 [ chipc ] [ iswc ] [ ke4qqq ] [ techpubs ]
13:44 [ cloudbot-name] [ jlkinsel ] [ nslater] [ topcloud_]
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13:45 < Spark404> ke4qqq: +1 will post to the list next
13:45 < edison_cs> they are doing very great thing for devcloud
13:45 < ke4qqq> Spark404: anything else we need to discuss?
13:45 < edison_cs> we need to support them
13:45 < chipc> edison_cs - totally agree!
13:45 < Spark404> not from me :-)
13:45 < ke4qqq> ok moving on- nslater you about, and have anything for us?
13:45 < Spark404> edison_cs: +1
13:45 < nslater> i am about
13:45 < nslater> nothing i need to bring up on irc that im not already
chasing up on the mailing list
13:46 < nslater> if anybody has any questions for me now, shout
13:46 < bhaisaab> nslater: that discussion about nonoss/non-asf release,
13:47 < bhaisaab> can't we have a single release, that does not
include non-asf stuff, Spark404 if that is possible?
13:47 < nslater> not sure i understand your question
13:47 < topcloud_> nslater: just wanted to thank you for helping with
the license stuff. it really moved much faster and became clearer
after you got involved.
13:47 < Spark404> bhaisaab: by default non-asf stuff is not build by
maven. you need to enable that with profiles
13:48 < nslater> topcloud_: no worries!
13:48 < bhaisaab> we do two separate releases now, oss and nonoss;
since buildin and linking with non-asf libs are allowed, we can have a
single release;
13:48 < ke4qqq> bhaisaab: we don't release binaries - only source code
- so not an issue
13:49 < chipc> bhaisaab - you're not talking about a release
13:49 < bhaisaab> Spark404: yes, the only issue is for
systemvm.zip/iso, the nonoss build would required, the nonosss libs
(vmware*.jars) to be bundled
13:49 < bhaisaab> ke4qqq: not for 4.0; about 4.1
13:49 < bhaisaab> chipc: about a binary release/build
13:49 < nslater> i dont think we should be distributing non-oss builds
from asf infra
13:49 < bhaisaab> ok
13:50 < nslater> what i understood from the thread were that we can
distribute binary builds that include plugins that work with non-OS
software *at installation time*
13:51 < chipc> bhaisaab - I think you have a reasonable interpretation
- but should we hold off until we get 4.0 to change strategies?
13:51 < bhaisaab> yes, those plugins would require non-asf libs to
work; but the release won't have those libs, thus the release is asf
compliant
13:51 < nslater> it is not a release :)
13:51 < bhaisaab> chipc: +1, pre-empted
13:51 < chipc> right now, widodh is hosting OSS and non-OSS packages,
cut from the 4.0 source release
13:51 < bhaisaab> ok
13:51 < bhaisaab> got it
13:52 < nslater> but yes, source releases or binary packages that
include components that work with non-OS software installed locally on
the users system is totally
fine to host on ASF infra
13:52 < ke4qqq> ok - anything else for/from nslater?
13:53 < nslater> the only thing i would say is that i have a few
threads outstanding that need replies
13:53 < nslater> but i will likely poke them after a few days myself
13:53 < chipc> which topics?
13:53 < chipc> are they 4.0 blockers?
13:53 < ke4qqq> nslater: anything you see as blocking a release?
13:53 < nslater> too numerous for me to list here
13:53 < nslater> (in the middle of a release at work, sorry)
13:53 < nslater> i can go through and identify 4.0 blockers and follow
up on my replies
13:54 < nslater> one thing i would like to say about the 4.0 release is this:
13:54 < nslater> 1. let's do a 4.0 RFC, where we provide a pre-release
source package and ask for comment
13:54 < nslater> releases are... expensive (in terms of community time)
13:54 < nslater> best to catch objections before going through the
actual motions
13:54 < chipc> nslater - yes - agreed
13:54 < chipc> we discussed that a bit earlier in the thread
13:54 < nslater> 2. i want us to document our release process as we're
learning it
13:55 < nslater> that means creating a new "Release Process" document
on the wiki
13:55 < topcloud_> nslater: I'm planning to do that this week.
13:55 < nslater> and adding things to it as the RM and the community
figure out what our process is
13:55 < nslater> the idea here is that other people can step in at any
time to follow the process and cut a release
13:55 < topcloud_> nslater: absolutely agree on documenting on what we learned.
13:55 < nslater> i would also like us to start ANOTHER document called
a "Test Procedure"
13:55 < bhaisaab> +1
13:55 < nslater> let me fetch an example
13:55 < chipc> http://wiki.apache.org/couchdb/Release_Procedure
13:56 < nslater> that is one
13:56 < nslater> check out this:
13:56 < nslater> http://wiki.apache.org/couchdb/Test_procedure
13:56 < nslater> the first one is for the RM
13:56 < nslater> the second one is what the RM sends out in the VOTE thread
13:56 < nslater> its a set of instructions for the community that will
help them cast a vote
13:56 < nslater> i.e. "okay, so i have a source tarball... what am i
looking for here??"
13:56 < topcloud_> nslater: thanks...will follow the format. although
i think for cs, it's still a little rough
13:57 < nslater> thats fine, these things are living documents
13:57 < ke4qqq> I think chipc has written most of the mchanics...but
rest of the process is still a bit vague
13:57 < nslater> but we need to give the community an idea of what
we're looking for for a +1 or a -1
13:57 < nslater> what are they supposed to be testing? <-- primary
question we need to answer for them up front
13:58 < nslater> (and it should include stuff like checking sigs, md5,
etc, but that's baseline stuff)
13:58 < chipc> topcloud_: you want to start the pages today? I'm
happy to edit away on the mechanics of the release itself
13:58 < topcloud_> chipc: will do
13:58 < chipc> nslater - so your concerns are largely docs and process centric?
13:59 < chipc> I just want to make sure we understand if there are other areas
13:59 < nslater> i wouldn't call them concerns. just two things that
came to me that i've not brought up explicitly before
13:59 < nslater> as for other areas, i would have to review my mail to
see if i think anything else is blocking
13:59 < nslater> and as for the release, i have not tested the existing code
14:00 < nslater> if you send out an rfc i will use that as an excuse
to do my own auditing
14:00 < chipc> excellent
14:00 < nslater> a documented test procedure will help me (and others)
look at areas of importance too
14:00 < chipc> so it sounds like we are headed to a RFC build on Friday really
14:00 < chipc> let's start with that assumption
14:01 < nslater> i will just re-itterate my caution not to depend too
heavily on release dates
14:01 < nslater> i dont want to depress you...
14:01 < nslater> but sometimes i has taken months to get something released
14:01 < nslater> i think the highest number of rounds we ever hit was
like, 5 perhaps
14:01 < nslater> (as in, restarted the vote following changes to
address problems 5 times)
14:02 < nslater> that is an *extreme* example
14:02 < chipc> yeah, we want to get to the point of trying
14:02 < nslater> sure
14:02 < chipc> that's the goal really
14:02 < nslater> just i had seen definitive release dates bandied about
14:02 < nslater> theres not procedural reason not to do that, but
expect to be disappointed occasionally ;)
14:02 < ke4qqq> nslater: just lines in sand to push people to
14:02 < nslater> ultimately the community will decide what and when we ship
14:02 < nslater> and yes, agreed - goals are good things
14:03 < chipc> nslater - I think the issue continues to be terminology really
14:03 < nslater> oh?
14:04 < topcloud_> we should do the rfc build today. I don't see
anything from QA as far as functionality that's blocking. The earlier
we get to it the earlier we
can learn whats going on.
14:04 < ke4qqq> chipc: agreed - honestly thinking that we need to do a glossary
14:04 < ke4qqq> :)
14:04 < chipc> nslater - transition from Citrix project to community
project = terminology and procedural differences
14:05 < ke4qqq> ASF terminology for newbs
14:05 < nslater> chipc: i like what you're doing on the lists btw, i
have seen you re-enforce some of my messages. people will naturally
flock around the stronger
members of the community, so its important for those
people to set the right tone, to use the right vocab, and to quickly
and politely keep people in
line when discussions are going south
14:05 < chipc> I applaud Citrix folks for dealing with all of the changes
14:05 < kdamage> +1
14:05 < chipc> topcloud_ so I've been doing the daily builds
14:05 < chipc> I'll do it again today - and actually call it a RFC
14:05 < chipc> but we need a test doc like nslater is suggesting
14:06 < topcloud_> chipc: cool...and i'll try to get the pages up.
14:06 [Users #cloudstack-meeting]
14:06 [ bhaisaab ] [ edison_cs] [ kdamage] [ Spark404 ] [ widodh]
14:06 [ chipc ] [ iswc ] [ ke4qqq ] [ techpubs ]
14:06 [ cloudbot-name] [ jlkinsel ] [ nslater] [ topcloud_]
14:06 -!- Irssi: #cloudstack-meeting: Total of 13 nicks [0 ops, 0
halfops, 0 voices, 13 normal]
14:06 < chipc> 'k
14:06 < chipc> ping me on list when you get them up, and that's when
I'll pull the trigger on an RFC email
14:06 < ke4qqq> we are at 1hr plus - shall we move on?
14:06 < topcloud_> chipc: I think what nslater is showing is very
close to what I meant by a new user experience.
14:06 < nslater> topcloud_: how do you mean?
14:07 < topcloud_> nslater: I've been looking around on cs webpages
that last week or so thinking about how a new user will work with the
4.0 release.
14:07 < nslater> right
14:07 < topcloud_> nslater: there's a lot of changes and duplicate pages, links.
14:07 < chipc> *steps away for a minute*
14:08 < topcloud_> nslater: but i think we can start with the test
procedure page you sent out.
14:08 < nslater> here's a sample RFC from couchdb
14:08 < nslater>
http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/couchdb-dev/201201.mbox/%3CCA+Y+4462n6Gdy50QmhNtqcs4_XcSYveg1v69Y2dtKrrg_e3VLw@mail.gmail.com%3E
14:08 < nslater> in our case i dont even link to a test build
14:08 < nslater> the audience here are the committers, i just want to
make sure we all have our ducks in a row
14:09 < nslater> (and i dont ask people to vote on anything either)
14:09 < nslater> its just announcing the intent
14:09 < topcloud_> cool...i've been kinda doing that actually but just
not in the right way.
14:10 < nslater> (that particular email is very informal, but im
dealing with an established community...)
14:10 < nslater> an actual VOTE email looks like this at the moment
14:10 < nslater>
http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/couchdb-dev/201202.mbox/%3CCA%2BY%2B444JKqhZvfZduqMmqaR1nCZU9Uvts_W9QCjxSfsnFdwmfA%40mail.gmail.com%3E
14:11 < chipc> *back*
14:12 < chipc> nslater: perfect references. Thanks
14:13 < nslater> p.s. you probably haven't seen this, but it might be
interesting for an insight into *my* take on ASF
14:13 < nslater> http://intertwingly.net/blog/2010/07/18/Community-over-Code
14:14 < chipc> ke4qqq: moving on? (unless nslater has something else)
14:14 < nslater> nah, im done
14:14 < ke4qqq> yep
14:14 < ke4qqq> so it's me next and I've said everything already
14:14 < ke4qqq> so kdamage anything for us?
14:14 [Users #cloudstack-meeting]
14:14 [ bhaisaab ] [ edison_cs] [ kdamage] [ Spark404 ] [ widodh]
14:14 [ chipc ] [ iswc ] [ ke4qqq ] [ techpubs ]
14:14 [ cloudbot-name] [ jlkinsel ] [ nslater] [ topcloud_]
14:14 -!- Irssi: #cloudstack-meeting: Total of 13 nicks [0 ops, 0
halfops, 0 voices, 13 normal]
14:14 < kdamage> yes really quickly, and also awesome work guys
14:15 < kdamage> With 4.0 on arrival, I wanted to bring up some of the
marketing/presentation points
14:15 < kdamage> I just wanted to bring back to the table Planet CS,
and wiki themes
14:15 < nslater> ooh, do we have a planet?
14:15 < kdamage> thats all
14:16 < jlkinsel> planet-cs is back in the hands of infra, I'll ping
them later today if I hear nothing
14:16 < nslater> cool
14:16 < jlkinsel> ok, honestly I'll ping them tomorrow, this afternoon
I'll be slammed
14:16 < kdamage> awesome
14:17 < ke4qqq> awesome indeed
14:17 < jlkinsel> for those interested, though, please work on getting
RSS feeds of CS-related posts ready to add
14:17 < kdamage> with vegas comming and 4.0 it's agood time to work on
public image
14:17 < kdamage> also ke4qqq any luck with getting ok on wiki themes?
14:17 < ke4qqq> kdamage: I've been a slacker and haven't asked yet
14:18 < kdamage> lol, np
14:18 < ke4qqq> anything else?
14:18 [Users #cloudstack-meeting]
14:18 [ bhaisaab ] [ edison_cs] [ kdamage] [ Spark404 ] [ widodh]
14:18 [ chipc ] [ iswc ] [ ke4qqq ] [ techpubs ]
14:18 [ cloudbot-name] [ jlkinsel ] [ nslater] [ topcloud_]
14:18 -!- Irssi: #cloudstack-meeting: Total of 13 nicks [0 ops, 0
halfops, 0 voices, 13 normal]
14:18 < kdamage> thats it for now
14:18 < ke4qqq> ok - jlkinsel have anything for us
14:18 < jlkinsel> planet-cs is it for me
14:18 < jlkinsel> well
14:19 < jlkinsel> working on a security scan, looks like I'll have
results well before release
14:19 < ke4qqq> jlkinsel: awesome
14:19 < ke4qqq> ok - so moving on iswc do you have anything for us?
14:20 < ke4qqq> hearing nothing - edison_cs anything for the meeting?
14:21 < edison_cs> nothing today
14:21 < ke4qqq> cloudbot has nothing for us, chipc have anything
14:21 < chipc> my topics were covered already, so nothing from me
14:21 < ke4qqq> bhaisaab: anything?
14:22 < bhaisaab> nothing, thanks;
14:22 < ke4qqq> awesome
14:22 < topcloud_> thanks everybody
14:22 < ke4qqq> thanks for coming
Re: logs from IRC meeting
Posted by Noah Slater <ns...@tumbolia.org>.
I suggest we bring the meeting bot into #cloudstack-dev, and leave it there.
On Thu, Oct 4, 2012 at 6:49 AM, Rohit Yadav <ro...@citrix.com> wrote:
>
> On 04-Oct-2012, at 3:59 AM, Noah Slater <ns...@tumbolia.org> wrote:
>
> > Understood.
> >
> > Some sort of summary would be preferable to a full log, I think. Logs are
> > very conversational, and hard to read.
>
> +1
> If we can setup a permanent bot on #cloudstack and on #cloudstack-meeting?
>
> HTML;
> http://bhaisaab.org/irc/cloudstack-meeting/%23cloudstack-meeting.2012-10-03.log.html
> Raw log;
> http://bhaisaab.org/irc/cloudstack-meeting/%23cloudstack-meeting.2012-10-03.log
>
> >
> > On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 11:27 PM, David Nalley <da...@gnsa.us> wrote:
> >
> >> On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 6:25 PM, Noah Slater <ns...@tumbolia.org>
> wrote:
> >>> No need to send the logs to the list. Logs are fine on the wiki. But
> >>> minutes should be sent to the list.
> >>>
> >>
> >> We didn't have meetbot running today so no 'minutes' per se exist.
> >>
> >> --David
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > NS
>
>
--
NS
Re: logs from IRC meeting
Posted by Rohit Yadav <ro...@citrix.com>.
On 04-Oct-2012, at 3:59 AM, Noah Slater <ns...@tumbolia.org> wrote:
> Understood.
>
> Some sort of summary would be preferable to a full log, I think. Logs are
> very conversational, and hard to read.
+1
If we can setup a permanent bot on #cloudstack and on #cloudstack-meeting?
HTML; http://bhaisaab.org/irc/cloudstack-meeting/%23cloudstack-meeting.2012-10-03.log.html
Raw log; http://bhaisaab.org/irc/cloudstack-meeting/%23cloudstack-meeting.2012-10-03.log
>
> On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 11:27 PM, David Nalley <da...@gnsa.us> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 6:25 PM, Noah Slater <ns...@tumbolia.org> wrote:
>>> No need to send the logs to the list. Logs are fine on the wiki. But
>>> minutes should be sent to the list.
>>>
>>
>> We didn't have meetbot running today so no 'minutes' per se exist.
>>
>> --David
>>
>
>
>
> --
> NS
Re: logs from IRC meeting
Posted by Noah Slater <ns...@tumbolia.org>.
Understood.
Some sort of summary would be preferable to a full log, I think. Logs are
very conversational, and hard to read.
On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 11:27 PM, David Nalley <da...@gnsa.us> wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 6:25 PM, Noah Slater <ns...@tumbolia.org> wrote:
> > No need to send the logs to the list. Logs are fine on the wiki. But
> > minutes should be sent to the list.
> >
>
> We didn't have meetbot running today so no 'minutes' per se exist.
>
> --David
>
--
NS
Re: logs from IRC meeting
Posted by David Nalley <da...@gnsa.us>.
On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 6:25 PM, Noah Slater <ns...@tumbolia.org> wrote:
> No need to send the logs to the list. Logs are fine on the wiki. But
> minutes should be sent to the list.
>
We didn't have meetbot running today so no 'minutes' per se exist.
--David
Re: logs from IRC meeting
Posted by Noah Slater <ns...@tumbolia.org>.
No need to send the logs to the list. Logs are fine on the wiki. But
minutes should be sent to the list.
On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 8:01 PM, David Nalley <da...@gnsa.us> wrote:
> 12:56 < topcloud> yeah i made it on time this time!
> 12:56 * Spark404 applauds
> 12:56 * ke4qqq tries to go get coffee - and notes that unless someone
> else brings a meetbot there won't be one
> 12:59 < topcloud> My agenda items for this meeting:
> 13:00 < topcloud> Can we submit for release to PMC on Friday (pending
> QA testing completion)?
> 13:00 < topcloud> Are there any items that are still not where we want it
> to be?
> 13:01 < chipc> ke4qqq - don't have one, sorry
> 13:01 < chipc> but I am logging
> 13:01 < ke4qqq> chipc: no worries - same here - it just won't be as
> pretty as meetbots, but that is ok
> 13:01 < topcloud> New user experience post 4.0 release.
> 13:02 < ke4qqq> so - IMO - you can propose a release and call for a
> vote when you feel it's ready topcloud
> 13:03 < chipc> suggestion on that - the best practice I've seen is to
> start a DISCUSS thread to get feedback first
> 13:03 < ke4qqq> (assuming that you are going to be acting as release
> manager and present us with a release to look at)
> 13:03 < chipc> but perhaps it's time to start that thread
> 13:04 < bhaisaab> +1
> 13:04 < chipc> topcloud - to do the release manager thing, you'll need a
> GPG key
> 13:04 -!- techpubs [4b197e9f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.25.126.159]
> has joined #cloudstack-meeting
> 13:04 < chipc> I'm more than happy to do the final bits if you want though
> 13:04 < ke4qqq> and it needs to be in KEYS
> 13:05 < topcloud> chipc - appreciated....i don't mind doing the final
> bits but I'm on vacation next week so if you can do that would be
> better.
> 13:05 < chipc> no problem
> 13:05 < chipc> ke4qqq - want to start of officially?
> 13:05 < topcloud> That's actually my last agenda item. I'm on
> vacation next week and I like to setup contingency plan on who takes
> over as release manager if
> something comes up.
> 13:06 < chipc> (topcloud - you deserve the break)
> 13:06 < ke4qqq> sure - lets get started - I am contrarian - so lets go
> in reverse alphabetical order
> 13:06 [Users #cloudstack-meeting]
> 13:06 [ bhaisaab] [ cloudbot-name] [ iswc ] [ nslater ] [ techpubs] [
> widodh]
> 13:06 [ chipc ] [ edison_cs ] [ ke4qqq] [ Spark404] [ topcloud]
> 13:06 -!- Irssi: #cloudstack-meeting: Total of 11 nicks [0 ops, 0
> halfops, 0 voices, 11 normal]
> 13:06 < ke4qqq> widodh: ??
> 13:06 * ke4qqq hasn't seen him around - so moving on - topcloud -
> lets finish out your issues
> 13:07 < chipc> ok - so for the release submission - suggest that I
> start a thread to gather any outstanding concerns today
> 13:07 < ke4qqq> chipc: willing to bear the mantle that topcloud leaves
> behind in his quest for vacation?
> 13:07 < chipc> if OK, and if QA wrapps with no blockers, I can do the
> build and propose the release on Friday
> 13:07 < chipc> yes
> 13:07 < topcloud> thanks chip!
> 13:08 < chipc> so to the question of "what's left"
>
> 13:08 < chipc> so to the question of "what's left"
> 13:08 < topcloud> I've been listing three things as blockers.
> 13:08 < chipc> yeah… do we know where the export filiing is?
> 13:08 < topcloud> 1. legal and license - which seems to be all resolved
> now.
> 13:09 < topcloud> export filing will be done by dave by tomorrow.
> 13:09 < topcloud> 2. QA testing not completed.
> 13:09 < topcloud> My understanding is it should be done by Friday.
> 13:09 < chipc> that's what I saw in the update
> 13:09 < topcloud> 3. Docs not completed.
> 13:09 < ke4qqq> chipc: joe or I or both of us, are just going to file
> - it's not something we want, but we'll do it because it seems the
> path of least resistance at
> this point.
> 13:10 < chipc> ke4qqq: agreed, I think that's the right path for now
> 13:10 < chipc> techpubs: how are the docs coming?
> 13:10 < topcloud> Jessica and Dave believe it will be done by Friday.
> Even if it isn't I don't believe it's a problem because it is going to
> be online docs.
> 13:10 < techpubs> Which docs are not completed from your perspective?
> (I have my own list of course)
> 13:10 < ke4qqq> chipc: so docs 'site' is up - no docs have been
> published there yet - http://incubator.apache.org/cloudstack/docs
> 13:10 < topcloud> Basically everything filed in Jira + Caringo and Nicira
> 13:11 * ke4qqq thinks hugo submitted docs for NVP - i just saw a commit
> fly by
> 13:11 < Spark404> indeed
> 13:11 < techpubs> Yes I met with Hugo yesterday on that
> 13:11 < techpubs> Gave a little docbook tutorial
> 13:11 < topcloud> cool!
> 13:11 < techpubs> yep it was
> 13:11 < techpubs> So, I can take care of getting the content into the
> repo, docs-wise. Who can take care of getting it onto that new doc
> site?
> 13:12 < techpubs> Or can I have upload permish on that server?
> 13:12 < techpubs> Or do I already :)
> 13:12 < ke4qqq> techpubs: I can, but any committer can already
> 13:12 < ke4qqq> I've got a draft site running at
> http://people.apache.org/~ke4qqq/docs2/
> 13:12 < chipc> looks good
> 13:13 < ke4qqq> i am having a problem with the install guide building
> though - and have some changes to push up
> 13:13 < techpubs> Can we write down the procedure, like how to log in
> to that server/where it is, etc. so no one person is a bottleneck?
> 13:13 < topcloud> Other than those three, I don't see any others.
> I've asked several times on the list already to identify other
> blockers but I don't see any.
> 13:13 < techpubs> Oh yes, I missed checking in one file yesterday. I
> can fix that :)
> 13:13 < techpubs> Sorry I broke the docs temporarily
> 13:13 < chipc> topcloud: agreed - we'll ask one last time
> 13:13 < ke4qqq> techpubs: yes - it's all cms - so it's committing
> stuff to SVN, waiting on buildbot, looking at staging and then
> publishing
> 13:14 < ke4qqq> but I'll get docs written for that
> 13:14 < techpubs> Great, just slap that in the "how to work with docs"
> wiki page or somewhere
> 13:14 -!- Sailaja [7bee5b3a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.123.238.91.58] has
> joined #cloudstack-meeting
> 13:14 < ke4qqq> all right - anything else we need to talk about
> topcloud or are we ready to move on?
> 13:15 < topcloud> the next item I have is user experience post 4.0 release.
> 13:15 < ke4qqq> ok
> 13:15 < topcloud> There are a number of websites now.
> 13:15 < topcloud> and the new way of taking source packages
> 13:15 < topcloud> and also non-oss
>
> 13:15 < topcloud> I like to draw up a storyboard for a new user coming
> to cloudstack after the 4.0 release
> 13:16 < bhaisaab> sort of some into to acs video?
> 13:16 < topcloud> and we'll fill out all the appropriate links.
> 13:16 < bhaisaab> *intro
> 13:16 < topcloud> sorry..bhaisaab...not as high tech as
> that...although that's a great idea.
> 13:16 < chipc> topcloud: so you're concerned about the person that
> wants the bits - how to get it?
> 13:17 < topcloud> i'm mainly talking about where they go for information.
> 13:17 < chipc> Fair
> 13:17 < chipc> I would have LOVED if we could have moved
> cloudstack.org to redirect to http://incubator.apache.org/cloudstack/
> as part of 4.0
> 13:17 < chipc> think there's any chance of that happening?
> 13:18 < ke4qqq> chipc: all you can do is ask
> 13:18 -!- kdamage [~quassel@fibre.backbonetechnology.com] has joined
> #cloudstack-meeting
> 13:18 < chipc> I'll bring it up on the list again
> 13:18 < chipc> that would clarify things for people I think
> 13:18 < topcloud> chipc: I would love to do it.
> 13:18 < chipc> new release - new site
> 13:18 < topcloud> chipc: what you're proposing.
> 13:19 < Spark404> chipc: +1
> 13:19 < chipc> ok - so I'll email the list about that - one of you
> Citrix folks is going to need to pull the trigger and do it though!
> 13:19 < ke4qqq> chipc: we have the power - there just needs to be the
> 'authority' to push it
> 13:19 < topcloud> I will start a discussion on the list about this.
> Mainly to highlight a new user's entry points and the list of things
> what a user can do.
> 13:19 < techpubs> Want to redirect docs.cloudstack.org also.
> 13:20 < techpubs> ??
> 13:20 < topcloud> I like to get everyone's help in filling out the
> details. If we can do the new site, even better!
> 13:20 < chipc> techpubs: yes - to the docs site at ASF
> 13:20 < chipc> topcloud: we'll have links to the source and wido's
> package depos on the download page
> 13:20 < chipc> and if we simply have the docs there for 4.0, we have
> covered the major stuff
> 13:20 < topcloud> ok...so my agenda items are done if we decide to
> take this to the list.
> 13:21 < chipc> let's
> 13:21 -!- topcloud [98b32aad@gateway/web/freenode/ip.152.179.42.173]
> has quit [Quit: Page closed]
> 13:21 < ke4qqq> sounds good - so moving on.... techpubs have anything
> else for us today?
> 13:21 [Users #cloudstack-meeting]
> 13:21 [ bhaisaab] [ cloudbot-name] [ iswc ] [ ke4qqq ] [ Sailaja ] [
> techpubs]
> 13:21 [ chipc ] [ edison_cs ] [ kdamage] [ nslater] [ Spark404] [
> widodh ]
> 13:21 -!- Irssi: #cloudstack-meeting: Total of 12 nicks [0 ops, 0
> halfops, 0 voices, 12 normal]
> 13:22 -!- topcloud [98b32aad@gateway/web/freenode/ip.152.179.42.173]
> has joined #cloudstack-meeting
> 13:22 -!- Sailaja [7bee5b3a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.123.238.91.58] has
> quit [Quit: Page closed]
> 13:22 < techpubs> I am going through all the admin guide and install guide
> files
> 13:22 < techpubs> Making sure I have checked my most recent stuff in to
> the repo
> 13:22 < techpubs> We do need to create more doc builds on jenkins: one
> for admin guide, one for install guide, one for developer guide
> 13:22 < ke4qqq> ok - whats your plan for getting what is in master to 4.0?
> 13:22 < ke4qqq> techpubs: I can take that as an action item
> 13:23 < techpubs> You mean for moving to the right branch -- thanks, I
> was going to ask if someone could own that
> 13:23 < techpubs> So for moving the files to the 4.0 branch, I was
> under the impression Alex was on it
>
> 13:23 < techpubs> Let's see who the bug is assigned to...
> 13:23 < chipc> topcloud: are you able to get to that?
> 13:24 < topcloud> chipc: I logged out for a minute there so I lost all
> the links....Get to what?
> 13:25 < chipc> techpubs asked if you were on point to move the docs
> from master to 4.0
> 13:25 < topcloud> oh sure.
> 13:25 < topcloud> I think techpubs can simply cherry-pick over. For
> docs, I'm more flexible.
> 13:26 < topcloud> techpubs: If you're not sure how to do it, I can
> come show you.
> 13:26 < ke4qqq> topcloud: that would be painful - /me is thinking just
> diff the two branches for docs directory
> 13:26 < ke4qqq> lots of docs checkins between the two branches fwiw
> 13:27 < topcloud> ke4qqq: ic....let's sync up while you're here on how
> to do it after this meeting then.
> 13:27 < ke4qqq> topcloud: ok
> 13:27 < techpubs> I'm wondering how install.txt is coming along
> 13:28 < ke4qqq> who are you wondering that of?
> 13:28 < topcloud> install.txt has been changed to just refer to the links.
> 13:28 < bhaisaab> it's install.md now, it contains links to wiki,
> easier for anyone to just get the latest info
> 13:28 < topcloud> so we'll just have everything online rather than
> have a static file.
> 13:29 < techpubs> Sounds much better.
> 13:29 < techpubs> So are the wiki pages it points to all updated with
> the new install from source procedure? Who has tested/reviewed that?
> 13:29 < chipc> so that isn't in master
> 13:29 < chipc> and 4.0 still has the INSTALL.txt
> 13:29 * ke4qqq goes off to look
> 13:29 < chipc> bhaisaab: did your review request get committed?
> 13:29 < topcloud> chipc: my bad for not picking it over.
> 13:30 < bhaisaab> chipc: yes, oh, needs to be picked on 4.0
> 13:30 < topcloud> chipc: will do so after the meeting. I committed
> the change but I must have forgot to pick it over. thanks for
> checking.
> 13:30 < bhaisaab> it's in master though
> 13:30 < chipc> ah - ok
> 13:30 < chipc> so are we good on INSTALL.md now then?
> 13:31 < topcloud> +1
> 13:31 < chipc> and how about a release notes / news file?
> 13:31 < chipc> I would like to ensure that we have that as a top level
> file in the source
> 13:31 < techpubs> Radhika PC in Bangalore is on the release notes
> 13:31 < ke4qqq> how much would you like to ensure it? :)
> 13:32 < chipc> ke4qqq: happy to do it, but I knew someone (Radjika
> apparently) was already working on the content
> 13:32 < techpubs> If you want any exciting news in the RNs, please
> communicate w/her in email (she's on cloudstack-dev) or by comments in
> the bug
> 13:32 < chipc> also happy to take over… but is there an ETA from Radhika?
> 13:32 < ke4qqq> chipc: so I am not saying that it isn't workable, but
> look at release notes output - it's not what Ihave typically seen in a
> NEWS file
> 13:33 < ke4qqq> chipc: just want to ensure that expectations are the same
> 13:33 < ke4qqq> or met
> 13:33 < chipc> where's the working copy?
> 13:33 < ke4qqq> chipc: I'll gen one quickly and post it
> 13:33 < chipc> *lazy search via IRC*
> 13:33 < chipc> thx
> 13:33 < techpubs> The release notes Radhika is working on would be a
> slightly different version of the Citrix CloudPlatform 3.0.5 Release
> Notes
>
> 13:34 < chipc> happy to take it as a starting point, and perhaps have
> a simplified version added to the source
> 13:34 < chipc> I'll make sure that we get a simplified source level
> NEWS file then
> 13:34 < ke4qqq> bah - techpubs release notes aren't building right now
> 13:34 < techpubs> See the release notes bug, it's CLOUDSTACK-5. The
> need for a NEWS file might be a different thing entirely.
> 13:35 < topcloud> should we also move release notes online?
> 13:35 < ke4qqq> topcloud: that's the plan - I moved the docs i could
> build without issue to my test site
> 13:35 < ke4qqq> still a few issues to work out, but nothing major
> 13:36 < topcloud> ke4qqq: cool...thx
> 13:36 < chipc> oh gosh - now I see what we're talking about
> 13:36 < chipc> ok, let me try to do a simplified one
> 13:37 < chipc> and if it's not worth it, then I'll shut up and kill my
> own idea ;-)
> 13:37 < techpubs> ke4qqq: I don't think the release notes have a build
> job set up right now, do they? Or are you saying the docbook file has
> errors and won't build?
> 13:37 * ke4qqq thinks it's a good idea - but don't think the current
> RN == NEWS content
> 13:37 < ke4qqq> techpubs: the latter
> 13:37 < chipc> I just came to that realization
> 13:37 < ke4qqq> I just tried to build it from source
> 13:39 -!- jlkinsel [~jlk@pdpc/supporter/active/jlkinsel] has joined
> #cloudstack-meeting
> 13:39 < ke4qqq> ok - techpubs ready for us to move on?
> 13:39 [Users #cloudstack-meeting]
> 13:39 [ bhaisaab ] [ edison_cs] [ kdamage] [ Spark404] [ widodh]
> 13:39 [ chipc ] [ iswc ] [ ke4qqq ] [ techpubs]
> 13:39 [ cloudbot-name] [ jlkinsel ] [ nslater] [ topcloud]
> 13:39 -!- Irssi: #cloudstack-meeting: Total of 13 nicks [0 ops, 0
> halfops, 0 voices, 13 normal]
> 13:40 < techpubs> Pretty much, except
> 13:40 < techpubs> I don't think we even have a
> release-notes-whatever.xml file in the repo, so what're you building?
> Or am I just overlooking the file?
> 13:40 < techpubs> OK, move on.
> 13:40 < ke4qqq> techpubs: it's there
> 13:41 < ke4qqq> ok - so Spark404 what do you have for us today?
> 13:41 < Spark404> maven discussion :-)
> 13:41 < Spark404> nothing to do with the 4.0 release, but i would like
> to break the ant build in 4.1.x
> 13:41 < Spark404> for so far as i didn't already
> 13:42 < Spark404> but its going to be hard to move forward with maven
> and keep supporting the ant build at the same time
> 13:42 < chipc> probably best said on list… but I wouldn't object
> 13:42 < chipc> looking forward to the conversion being complete
> 13:42 < chipc> (nice work)
> 13:42 < ke4qqq> no objection, but please provide a warning I think -
> and yes def on list
> 13:42 < chipc> Spark404: did you catch the note from teh guys at Basho?
> 13:42 * ke4qqq assumes it will still be buildable with maven?
> 13:42 < topcloud> different branch?
> 13:43 < jlkinsel> different branch might be good
> 13:43 < Spark404> ke4qqq: yup, completely with systemvm, awsapi and
> everything
> 13:43 < ke4qqq> ohhh so this isn't breaking the build it's just doing
> away with ant
> 13:43 < chipc> the basho folks were asking for some support… they are
> doing good stuff with devcloud
> 13:43 < topcloud> oh ok...got it.
>
> 13:43 < ke4qqq> ??
> 13:43 < Spark404> ke4qqq: yeah, tho only thin missing is making
> packages and people working with the maven build
> 13:44 < edison_cs> chipc: haven't reply basho;s email yet
> 13:44 * ke4qqq does think list is the next place this convo should go
> - but no objection in principle from me - just advance warning and new
> instructions ready before
> ant is defenestrated
> 13:44 -!- topcloud_ [98b32aad@gateway/web/freenode/ip.152.179.42.173]
> has joined #cloudstack-meeting
> 13:44 -!- topcloud [98b32aad@gateway/web/freenode/ip.152.179.42.173]
> has quit [Quit: Page closed]
> 13:44 [Users #cloudstack-meeting]
> 13:44 [ bhaisaab ] [ edison_cs] [ kdamage] [ Spark404 ] [ widodh]
> 13:44 [ chipc ] [ iswc ] [ ke4qqq ] [ techpubs ]
> 13:44 [ cloudbot-name] [ jlkinsel ] [ nslater] [ topcloud_]
> 13:44 -!- Irssi: #cloudstack-meeting: Total of 13 nicks [0 ops, 0
> halfops, 0 voices, 13 normal]
> 13:45 < Spark404> ke4qqq: +1 will post to the list next
> 13:45 < edison_cs> they are doing very great thing for devcloud
> 13:45 < ke4qqq> Spark404: anything else we need to discuss?
> 13:45 < edison_cs> we need to support them
> 13:45 < chipc> edison_cs - totally agree!
> 13:45 < Spark404> not from me :-)
> 13:45 < ke4qqq> ok moving on- nslater you about, and have anything for us?
> 13:45 < Spark404> edison_cs: +1
> 13:45 < nslater> i am about
> 13:45 < nslater> nothing i need to bring up on irc that im not already
> chasing up on the mailing list
> 13:46 < nslater> if anybody has any questions for me now, shout
> 13:46 < bhaisaab> nslater: that discussion about nonoss/non-asf release,
> 13:47 < bhaisaab> can't we have a single release, that does not
> include non-asf stuff, Spark404 if that is possible?
> 13:47 < nslater> not sure i understand your question
> 13:47 < topcloud_> nslater: just wanted to thank you for helping with
> the license stuff. it really moved much faster and became clearer
> after you got involved.
> 13:47 < Spark404> bhaisaab: by default non-asf stuff is not build by
> maven. you need to enable that with profiles
> 13:48 < nslater> topcloud_: no worries!
> 13:48 < bhaisaab> we do two separate releases now, oss and nonoss;
> since buildin and linking with non-asf libs are allowed, we can have a
> single release;
> 13:48 < ke4qqq> bhaisaab: we don't release binaries - only source code
> - so not an issue
> 13:49 < chipc> bhaisaab - you're not talking about a release
> 13:49 < bhaisaab> Spark404: yes, the only issue is for
> systemvm.zip/iso, the nonoss build would required, the nonosss libs
> (vmware*.jars) to be bundled
> 13:49 < bhaisaab> ke4qqq: not for 4.0; about 4.1
> 13:49 < bhaisaab> chipc: about a binary release/build
> 13:49 < nslater> i dont think we should be distributing non-oss builds
> from asf infra
> 13:49 < bhaisaab> ok
> 13:50 < nslater> what i understood from the thread were that we can
> distribute binary builds that include plugins that work with non-OS
> software *at installation time*
> 13:51 < chipc> bhaisaab - I think you have a reasonable interpretation
> - but should we hold off until we get 4.0 to change strategies?
> 13:51 < bhaisaab> yes, those plugins would require non-asf libs to
> work; but the release won't have those libs, thus the release is asf
> compliant
> 13:51 < nslater> it is not a release :)
> 13:51 < bhaisaab> chipc: +1, pre-empted
> 13:51 < chipc> right now, widodh is hosting OSS and non-OSS packages,
> cut from the 4.0 source release
> 13:51 < bhaisaab> ok
>
> 13:51 < bhaisaab> got it
> 13:52 < nslater> but yes, source releases or binary packages that
> include components that work with non-OS software installed locally on
> the users system is totally
> fine to host on ASF infra
> 13:52 < ke4qqq> ok - anything else for/from nslater?
> 13:53 < nslater> the only thing i would say is that i have a few
> threads outstanding that need replies
> 13:53 < nslater> but i will likely poke them after a few days myself
> 13:53 < chipc> which topics?
> 13:53 < chipc> are they 4.0 blockers?
> 13:53 < ke4qqq> nslater: anything you see as blocking a release?
> 13:53 < nslater> too numerous for me to list here
> 13:53 < nslater> (in the middle of a release at work, sorry)
> 13:53 < nslater> i can go through and identify 4.0 blockers and follow
> up on my replies
> 13:54 < nslater> one thing i would like to say about the 4.0 release is
> this:
> 13:54 < nslater> 1. let's do a 4.0 RFC, where we provide a pre-release
> source package and ask for comment
> 13:54 < nslater> releases are... expensive (in terms of community time)
> 13:54 < nslater> best to catch objections before going through the
> actual motions
> 13:54 < chipc> nslater - yes - agreed
> 13:54 < chipc> we discussed that a bit earlier in the thread
> 13:54 < nslater> 2. i want us to document our release process as we're
> learning it
> 13:55 < nslater> that means creating a new "Release Process" document
> on the wiki
> 13:55 < topcloud_> nslater: I'm planning to do that this week.
> 13:55 < nslater> and adding things to it as the RM and the community
> figure out what our process is
> 13:55 < nslater> the idea here is that other people can step in at any
> time to follow the process and cut a release
> 13:55 < topcloud_> nslater: absolutely agree on documenting on what we
> learned.
> 13:55 < nslater> i would also like us to start ANOTHER document called
> a "Test Procedure"
> 13:55 < bhaisaab> +1
> 13:55 < nslater> let me fetch an example
> 13:55 < chipc> http://wiki.apache.org/couchdb/Release_Procedure
> 13:56 < nslater> that is one
> 13:56 < nslater> check out this:
> 13:56 < nslater> http://wiki.apache.org/couchdb/Test_procedure
> 13:56 < nslater> the first one is for the RM
> 13:56 < nslater> the second one is what the RM sends out in the VOTE thread
> 13:56 < nslater> its a set of instructions for the community that will
> help them cast a vote
> 13:56 < nslater> i.e. "okay, so i have a source tarball... what am i
> looking for here??"
> 13:56 < topcloud_> nslater: thanks...will follow the format. although
> i think for cs, it's still a little rough
> 13:57 < nslater> thats fine, these things are living documents
> 13:57 < ke4qqq> I think chipc has written most of the mchanics...but
> rest of the process is still a bit vague
> 13:57 < nslater> but we need to give the community an idea of what
> we're looking for for a +1 or a -1
> 13:57 < nslater> what are they supposed to be testing? <-- primary
> question we need to answer for them up front
> 13:58 < nslater> (and it should include stuff like checking sigs, md5,
> etc, but that's baseline stuff)
> 13:58 < chipc> topcloud_: you want to start the pages today? I'm
> happy to edit away on the mechanics of the release itself
> 13:58 < topcloud_> chipc: will do
> 13:58 < chipc> nslater - so your concerns are largely docs and process
> centric?
>
> 13:59 < chipc> I just want to make sure we understand if there are other
> areas
> 13:59 < nslater> i wouldn't call them concerns. just two things that
> came to me that i've not brought up explicitly before
> 13:59 < nslater> as for other areas, i would have to review my mail to
> see if i think anything else is blocking
> 13:59 < nslater> and as for the release, i have not tested the existing
> code
> 14:00 < nslater> if you send out an rfc i will use that as an excuse
> to do my own auditing
> 14:00 < chipc> excellent
> 14:00 < nslater> a documented test procedure will help me (and others)
> look at areas of importance too
> 14:00 < chipc> so it sounds like we are headed to a RFC build on Friday
> really
> 14:00 < chipc> let's start with that assumption
> 14:01 < nslater> i will just re-itterate my caution not to depend too
> heavily on release dates
> 14:01 < nslater> i dont want to depress you...
> 14:01 < nslater> but sometimes i has taken months to get something released
> 14:01 < nslater> i think the highest number of rounds we ever hit was
> like, 5 perhaps
> 14:01 < nslater> (as in, restarted the vote following changes to
> address problems 5 times)
> 14:02 < nslater> that is an *extreme* example
> 14:02 < chipc> yeah, we want to get to the point of trying
> 14:02 < nslater> sure
> 14:02 < chipc> that's the goal really
> 14:02 < nslater> just i had seen definitive release dates bandied about
> 14:02 < nslater> theres not procedural reason not to do that, but
> expect to be disappointed occasionally ;)
> 14:02 < ke4qqq> nslater: just lines in sand to push people to
> 14:02 < nslater> ultimately the community will decide what and when we ship
> 14:02 < nslater> and yes, agreed - goals are good things
> 14:03 < chipc> nslater - I think the issue continues to be terminology
> really
> 14:03 < nslater> oh?
> 14:04 < topcloud_> we should do the rfc build today. I don't see
> anything from QA as far as functionality that's blocking. The earlier
> we get to it the earlier we
> can learn whats going on.
> 14:04 < ke4qqq> chipc: agreed - honestly thinking that we need to do a
> glossary
> 14:04 < ke4qqq> :)
> 14:04 < chipc> nslater - transition from Citrix project to community
> project = terminology and procedural differences
> 14:05 < ke4qqq> ASF terminology for newbs
> 14:05 < nslater> chipc: i like what you're doing on the lists btw, i
> have seen you re-enforce some of my messages. people will naturally
> flock around the stronger
> members of the community, so its important for those
> people to set the right tone, to use the right vocab, and to quickly
> and politely keep people in
> line when discussions are going south
> 14:05 < chipc> I applaud Citrix folks for dealing with all of the changes
> 14:05 < kdamage> +1
> 14:05 < chipc> topcloud_ so I've been doing the daily builds
> 14:05 < chipc> I'll do it again today - and actually call it a RFC
> 14:05 < chipc> but we need a test doc like nslater is suggesting
> 14:06 < topcloud_> chipc: cool...and i'll try to get the pages up.
> 14:06 [Users #cloudstack-meeting]
> 14:06 [ bhaisaab ] [ edison_cs] [ kdamage] [ Spark404 ] [ widodh]
> 14:06 [ chipc ] [ iswc ] [ ke4qqq ] [ techpubs ]
> 14:06 [ cloudbot-name] [ jlkinsel ] [ nslater] [ topcloud_]
>
> 14:06 -!- Irssi: #cloudstack-meeting: Total of 13 nicks [0 ops, 0
> halfops, 0 voices, 13 normal]
> 14:06 < chipc> 'k
> 14:06 < chipc> ping me on list when you get them up, and that's when
> I'll pull the trigger on an RFC email
> 14:06 < ke4qqq> we are at 1hr plus - shall we move on?
> 14:06 < topcloud_> chipc: I think what nslater is showing is very
> close to what I meant by a new user experience.
> 14:06 < nslater> topcloud_: how do you mean?
> 14:07 < topcloud_> nslater: I've been looking around on cs webpages
> that last week or so thinking about how a new user will work with the
> 4.0 release.
> 14:07 < nslater> right
> 14:07 < topcloud_> nslater: there's a lot of changes and duplicate pages,
> links.
> 14:07 < chipc> *steps away for a minute*
> 14:08 < topcloud_> nslater: but i think we can start with the test
> procedure page you sent out.
> 14:08 < nslater> here's a sample RFC from couchdb
> 14:08 < nslater>
>
> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/couchdb-dev/201201.mbox/%3CCA+Y+4462n6Gdy50QmhNtqcs4_XcSYveg1v69Y2dtKrrg_e3VLw@mail.gmail.com%3E
> 14:08 < nslater> in our case i dont even link to a test build
> 14:08 < nslater> the audience here are the committers, i just want to
> make sure we all have our ducks in a row
> 14:09 < nslater> (and i dont ask people to vote on anything either)
> 14:09 < nslater> its just announcing the intent
> 14:09 < topcloud_> cool...i've been kinda doing that actually but just
> not in the right way.
> 14:10 < nslater> (that particular email is very informal, but im
> dealing with an established community...)
> 14:10 < nslater> an actual VOTE email looks like this at the moment
> 14:10 < nslater>
>
> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/couchdb-dev/201202.mbox/%3CCA%2BY%2B444JKqhZvfZduqMmqaR1nCZU9Uvts_W9QCjxSfsnFdwmfA%40mail.gmail.com%3E
> 14:11 < chipc> *back*
> 14:12 < chipc> nslater: perfect references. Thanks
> 14:13 < nslater> p.s. you probably haven't seen this, but it might be
> interesting for an insight into *my* take on ASF
> 14:13 < nslater>
> http://intertwingly.net/blog/2010/07/18/Community-over-Code
> 14:14 < chipc> ke4qqq: moving on? (unless nslater has something else)
> 14:14 < nslater> nah, im done
> 14:14 < ke4qqq> yep
> 14:14 < ke4qqq> so it's me next and I've said everything already
> 14:14 < ke4qqq> so kdamage anything for us?
> 14:14 [Users #cloudstack-meeting]
> 14:14 [ bhaisaab ] [ edison_cs] [ kdamage] [ Spark404 ] [ widodh]
> 14:14 [ chipc ] [ iswc ] [ ke4qqq ] [ techpubs ]
> 14:14 [ cloudbot-name] [ jlkinsel ] [ nslater] [ topcloud_]
> 14:14 -!- Irssi: #cloudstack-meeting: Total of 13 nicks [0 ops, 0
> halfops, 0 voices, 13 normal]
> 14:14 < kdamage> yes really quickly, and also awesome work guys
> 14:15 < kdamage> With 4.0 on arrival, I wanted to bring up some of the
> marketing/presentation points
> 14:15 < kdamage> I just wanted to bring back to the table Planet CS,
> and wiki themes
> 14:15 < nslater> ooh, do we have a planet?
> 14:15 < kdamage> thats all
> 14:16 < jlkinsel> planet-cs is back in the hands of infra, I'll ping
> them later today if I hear nothing
> 14:16 < nslater> cool
> 14:16 < jlkinsel> ok, honestly I'll ping them tomorrow, this afternoon
> I'll be slammed
> 14:16 < kdamage> awesome
>
> 14:17 < ke4qqq> awesome indeed
> 14:17 < jlkinsel> for those interested, though, please work on getting
> RSS feeds of CS-related posts ready to add
> 14:17 < kdamage> with vegas comming and 4.0 it's agood time to work on
> public image
> 14:17 < kdamage> also ke4qqq any luck with getting ok on wiki themes?
> 14:17 < ke4qqq> kdamage: I've been a slacker and haven't asked yet
> 14:18 < kdamage> lol, np
> 14:18 < ke4qqq> anything else?
> 14:18 [Users #cloudstack-meeting]
> 14:18 [ bhaisaab ] [ edison_cs] [ kdamage] [ Spark404 ] [ widodh]
> 14:18 [ chipc ] [ iswc ] [ ke4qqq ] [ techpubs ]
> 14:18 [ cloudbot-name] [ jlkinsel ] [ nslater] [ topcloud_]
> 14:18 -!- Irssi: #cloudstack-meeting: Total of 13 nicks [0 ops, 0
> halfops, 0 voices, 13 normal]
> 14:18 < kdamage> thats it for now
> 14:18 < ke4qqq> ok - jlkinsel have anything for us
> 14:18 < jlkinsel> planet-cs is it for me
> 14:18 < jlkinsel> well
> 14:19 < jlkinsel> working on a security scan, looks like I'll have
> results well before release
> 14:19 < ke4qqq> jlkinsel: awesome
> 14:19 < ke4qqq> ok - so moving on iswc do you have anything for us?
> 14:20 < ke4qqq> hearing nothing - edison_cs anything for the meeting?
> 14:21 < edison_cs> nothing today
> 14:21 < ke4qqq> cloudbot has nothing for us, chipc have anything
> 14:21 < chipc> my topics were covered already, so nothing from me
> 14:21 < ke4qqq> bhaisaab: anything?
> 14:22 < bhaisaab> nothing, thanks;
> 14:22 < ke4qqq> awesome
> 14:22 < topcloud_> thanks everybody
> 14:22 < ke4qqq> thanks for coming
>
--
NS