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Posted to general@incubator.apache.org by Jason Porter <jp...@ibm.com.INVALID> on 2023/01/09 14:50:56 UTC

[VOTE] KIE proposal acceptance

I'd like to call a vote for the acceptance of KIE as an Apache Incubator project as the conversation around the proposal has ended. The proposal is available at [1].

[1] https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/INCUBATOR/KIE+Proposal

Jason Porter
Software Engineer
He/Him/His

IBM

Re: [VOTE] KIE proposal acceptance

Posted by Dave Fisher <wa...@apache.org>.

While I have some concerns about the size of the project I trust the Champion and Mentors.

Should the Mentors feel they need help then please reach out here.

+1 (binding)

> On Jan 10, 2023, at 9:21 AM, Brian Proffitt <bk...@apache.org> wrote:
> 
> +1 (binding)
> 
> On 2023/01/09 14:50:56 Jason Porter wrote:
>> I'd like to call a vote for the acceptance of KIE as an Apache Incubator project as the conversation around the proposal has ended. The proposal is available at [1].
>> 
>> [1] https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/INCUBATOR/KIE+Proposal
>> 
>> Jason Porter
>> Software Engineer
>> He/Him/His
>> 
>> IBM
>> 
>> 
> 
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Re: [VOTE] KIE proposal acceptance

Posted by Brian Proffitt <bk...@apache.org>.

+1 (binding)

On 2023/01/09 14:50:56 Jason Porter wrote:
> I'd like to call a vote for the acceptance of KIE as an Apache Incubator project as the conversation around the proposal has ended. The proposal is available at [1].
> 
> [1] https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/INCUBATOR/KIE+Proposal
> 
> Jason Porter
> Software Engineer
> He/Him/His
> 
> IBM
> 
> 

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Re: [VOTE] KIE proposal acceptance

Posted by Andrea Cosentino <an...@gmail.com>.

+1 (binding).

Thanks.

Il giorno lun 9 gen 2023 alle ore 15:51 Jason Porter
<jp...@ibm.com.invalid> ha scritto:

> I'd like to call a vote for the acceptance of KIE as an Apache Incubator
> project as the conversation around the proposal has ended. The proposal is
> available at [1].
>
> [1] https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/INCUBATOR/KIE+Proposal
>
> Jason Porter
> Software Engineer
> He/Him/His
>
> IBM
>
>

Re: [VOTE] KIE proposal acceptance

Posted by Karol Brejna <ka...@apache.org>.

+1 (non-binding)

It would be interesting to see these pieces of software developed under the Apache umbrella.

Regards,
Karol

On 2023/01/09 14:50:56 Jason Porter wrote:
> I'd like to call a vote for the acceptance of KIE as an Apache Incubator project as the conversation around the proposal has ended. The proposal is available at [1].
> 
> [1] https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/INCUBATOR/KIE+Proposal
> 
> Jason Porter
> Software Engineer
> He/Him/His
> 
> IBM
> 
> 

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Re: [VOTE] KIE proposal acceptance

Posted by PJ Fanning <fa...@gmail.com>.

+1

I've updated the Confluence page to remove the refs to IBM and RedHat.

On Mon, 9 Jan 2023 at 16:35, Jason Porter <jp...@ibm.com.invalid> wrote:
>
> Looks like I messed up sections. Happy to change, but I don't have edit access to the Wiki. We have the Apache Camel project and Brian Proffit as sponsors for the incubator project.
>
> Jason Porter
> Software Engineer
> He/Him/His
>
> IBM
>
> On Jan 9, 2023, at 08:02, Sheng Wu <wu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I noticed the sponsor part of the proposal
>
> Sponsors
> IBM and Red Hat are the sponsors for the project.
>
> I think this sponsor part referring an ASF TLP, which usually be the
> incubator in here or other TLPs.
> These two companies may provide support to the developers, but this is
> not the meaning of the proposal.
>
> Sheng Wu 吴晟
> Twitter, wusheng1108
>
> Antoine Toulme <an...@toulme.name> 于2023年1月9日周一 22:58写道：
>
> Here is my +1 (binding). I worked with Drools long time ago and am excited to see KIE take it to the next level!
>
> Cheers,
>
> Antoine
>
> On Jan 9, 2023, at 06:51, Jason Porter <jp...@ibm.com.invalid> wrote:
>
> I'd like to call a vote for the acceptance of KIE as an Apache Incubator project as the conversation around the proposal has ended. The proposal is available at [1].
>
> [1] https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/INCUBATOR/KIE+Proposal
>
> Jason Porter
> Software Engineer
> He/Him/His
>
> IBM
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
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>
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>

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Re: [VOTE] KIE proposal acceptance

Posted by Jason Porter <jp...@ibm.com.INVALID>.

Looks like I messed up sections. Happy to change, but I don't have edit access to the Wiki. We have the Apache Camel project and Brian Proffit as sponsors for the incubator project.

Jason Porter
Software Engineer
He/Him/His

IBM

On Jan 9, 2023, at 08:02, Sheng Wu <wu...@gmail.com> wrote:

I noticed the sponsor part of the proposal

Sponsors
IBM and Red Hat are the sponsors for the project.

I think this sponsor part referring an ASF TLP, which usually be the
incubator in here or other TLPs.
These two companies may provide support to the developers, but this is
not the meaning of the proposal.

Sheng Wu 吴晟
Twitter, wusheng1108

Antoine Toulme <an...@toulme.name> 于2023年1月9日周一 22:58写道：

Here is my +1 (binding). I worked with Drools long time ago and am excited to see KIE take it to the next level!

Cheers,

Antoine

On Jan 9, 2023, at 06:51, Jason Porter <jp...@ibm.com.invalid> wrote:

I'd like to call a vote for the acceptance of KIE as an Apache Incubator project as the conversation around the proposal has ended. The proposal is available at [1].

[1] https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/INCUBATOR/KIE+Proposal

Jason Porter
Software Engineer
He/Him/His

IBM

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Re: [VOTE] KIE proposal acceptance

Posted by Sheng Wu <wu...@gmail.com>.

I noticed the sponsor part of the proposal

> Sponsors
IBM and Red Hat are the sponsors for the project.

I think this sponsor part referring an ASF TLP, which usually be the
incubator in here or other TLPs.
These two companies may provide support to the developers, but this is
not the meaning of the proposal.

Sheng Wu 吴晟
Twitter, wusheng1108

Antoine Toulme <an...@toulme.name> 于2023年1月9日周一 22:58写道：
>
> Here is my +1 (binding). I worked with Drools long time ago and am excited to see KIE take it to the next level!
>
> Cheers,
>
> Antoine
>
> > On Jan 9, 2023, at 06:51, Jason Porter <jp...@ibm.com.invalid> wrote:
> >
> > I'd like to call a vote for the acceptance of KIE as an Apache Incubator project as the conversation around the proposal has ended. The proposal is available at [1].
> >
> > [1] https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/INCUBATOR/KIE+Proposal
> >
> > Jason Porter
> > Software Engineer
> > He/Him/His
> >
> > IBM
> >
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>

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Re: [VOTE] KIE proposal acceptance

Posted by Antoine Toulme <an...@toulme.name>.

Here is my +1 (binding). I worked with Drools long time ago and am excited to see KIE take it to the next level!

Cheers,

Antoine

> On Jan 9, 2023, at 06:51, Jason Porter <jp...@ibm.com.invalid> wrote:
> 
> I'd like to call a vote for the acceptance of KIE as an Apache Incubator project as the conversation around the proposal has ended. The proposal is available at [1].
> 
> [1] https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/INCUBATOR/KIE+Proposal
> 
> Jason Porter
> Software Engineer
> He/Him/His
> 
> IBM
> 


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Re: [VOTE] KIE proposal acceptance

Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@codeconsult.ch>.

Hi,

Jason Porter <jp...@ibm.com.invalid> wrote:
> The proposal is available at [1]...

I'm copying the proposal text here, we usually include it in vote
threads for archiving purposes.

-Bertrand

*** KIE proposal ***

Abstract

KIE (Knowledge is Everything) is a community of solutions and
supporting tooling for knowledge engineering and process automation,
focusing on events, rules, and workflows.

Proposal

KIE is a community dedicated to supporting knowledge engineering and
process automation, using standards from groups like OMG (BPMN, CMMN,
DMN), CNCF (Serverless Workflow, Cloud Events), and DMG (PMML, PFA).
KIE is comprised of leading open-source projects (like Drools and
jBPM), which provide modeling and code authoring tools in this space.
The work has a strong emphasis on being a first-class citizen for
Kubernetes but will continue to support embedded and other
environments such as edge computing. Drools and jBPM are well-known
projects in their areas of rules and workflow and they will be joined
by another project, building on a shared core with jBPM, for CNCF’s
Serverless Workflow - this project is going through a naming process
at the time of this application. Kogito is the foundation project for
workflow which jBPM and CNCF’s Serverless Workflow build on. Services
and frameworks are provided to enable those projects in a cloud-native
environment and tooling is made available through KIE Tools.

Background

Experience has shown that a holistic approach is a practical
requirement for any  knowledge engineering and process automation.
This requires a breadth of capabilities able to model and execute an
application’s data models, rules, workflows, and events. These
projects aim to provide a holistic approach with a strong emphasis on
congruency across them.

Rationale


Knowledge engineering and process automation have been and continue to
play a large part in today’s software lifecycle. To date, there have
been few truly open-source implementations of any of the
specifications (DMN, PMML, BPMN, CNCF Workflow, etc). The projects
within Red Hat implement these standards and fill that gap of having
an open-source implementation.

The projects within KIE also mesh well with other Apache projects such
as Apache Camel and Apache Airavata. Integrations could be done at the
IoT level with Apache PLC4X and others.

Developers need a solution that follows, implements, and collaborates
with these industry specifications. The Apache Software Foundation
would allow these projects to continue to grow in a vendor-neutral
environment and promote further collaboration with existing
integrations and future partners.

Initial Goals

First and foremost, we aim to enlarge the community. KIE has primarily
been an open-source community of Red Hat Developers and users outside
of Red Hat. Adding IBM to the list of developers helps, but we would
like to see more. We have ideas for the various sub-projects, such as
straight-through processing support in Kogito, better spec compliance
for the tooling, and more research into language bindings for non-Java
languages. We believe we can address some of these while an Apache
Incubator project.

Current Status


Code for the various projects with the KIE community is all hosted on
GitHub. This includes Kogito, Drools, jBPM, and KIE Tools. All of the
code is Apache 2 licensed. Red Hat has been the project’s custodian
since its inception and has maintained leadership in that area. Moving
forward into the Apache Incubator, we would need to establish the
habit of holding votes and meetings and the project updates per the
Apache Way.

We also currently maintain a YouTube channel dedicated to the
community and projects, a Twitter presence, and a LinkedIn page for
the KIE Community.

Meritocracy

Red Hat runs all of its open-source projects as meritocracies, the KIE
Community is no different. This aspect would not change any. Kogito
currently does not make a distinction between “committer” and “PMC
member” the same way Apache does. That aspect would need
implementation.

Community

The KIE Community has an active base of contributors within and
outside Red Hat. Community members currently use Zulip chat or mailing
lists hosted by Google Groups as communication tools. It has been that
way for many years. Before that, we were using IRC at Freenode for
many years. There are also mailing lists hosted on Google Groups that
are leveraged for those who prefer mailing list communication. Zulip
was started as a standard communication medium for KIE Community back
in 2020. IRC has been used since 2003.

Core Developers

Core developers would come from both Red Hat and IBM. They include
people who have been working on related projects and the creation of
the KIE Community since the beginning, and also people new to the
project.

Alignment

Projects within the KIE Community align with multiple efforts within
Apache, namely:

  *   Apache OpenWhisk
  *   Apache Airavata
  *   Apache Camel


We are currently actively involved in collaboration with Apache Camel,
while the other two are more alignments and usages within the
communities. There may be other Apache projects which could benefit
from integration with KIE Community projects.


jBPM, the proposed Serverless Workflow project and the Kogito workflow
foundation are targeting serverless and microservice deployments. It
helps to create automation and integration with other technologies in
a simple-to-use and understandable way. The Apache Software Foundation
is a great place to collaborate with multiple companies and
technologies. We’re looking to build a community that is inclusive,
helpful, and a good citizen to the larger Open Source community.

Other projects within the KIE Community umbrella target a more
standard enterprise software approach and deployment model.

Known Risks

The Kogito workflow foundation targets the Quarkus environment, an
open-source project that Red Hat maintains. Should Red Hat no longer
wish to maintain Quarkus or move it in a direction that harms Kogito,
a pivot may be necessary. The Kogito workflow foundation will still
run on other runtimes, so it is less of a risk as well.

There should not be any risks for other projects.

Project Name

All names and trademarks have been vetted by Red Hat’s legal team to
be usable in the space. Transferring these over to Apache will not be
a problem.

Orphaned products

Primary contributions to the KIE Community of projects will be made by
engineers employed by Red Hat and IBM. IBM is a leading vendor in the
Business Automation space. Red Hat up until the second half of 2022
was also a major vendor in the same space. While Red Hat is no longer
pursuing the Business Automation market it does still need to augment
the capabilities of its other products with workflow, rules, and event
technologies in a way that aligns with Red Hat’s target audiences and
Red Hat’s strategic direction. Red Hat will continue to pursue the
development around CNCF serverless workflow, which will be built upon
Kogito and Drools. There is no risk of these projects being orphaned
by either company.

Inexperience with Open Source


All initial committers are well-versed in Open Source development.

Length of Incubation

Incubation should take somewhere between six to twelve months.


Homogenous Developers

The list of initial project committers includes developers from IBM
and Red Hat, all from different locations around the world.

Reliance on Salaried Developers

Currently, the list of developers is from IBM and Red Hat. We’re
hoping by moving to Apache we can grow this list of developers outside
of those two companies. All the projects within KIE have been around
for a long time and have a large user base. Developers have come and
gone over the years, but the initial list of developers is coming from
Red Hat and IBM.

Relationships with Other Apache Products

The Apache Camel project has had integrations with KIE Community
projects, namely jBPM and Drools. Camel K also has integrations with
Kogito. Kogito and Camel also have integrations with Quarkus. Kogito
is built using Apache Maven.

An Excessive Fascination with the Apache Brand

We have looked at both the Apache Software Foundation and the Eclipse
Foundation and have decided that Apache would be a better place for
the code base. Red Hat, and IBM, have worked with both foundations and
continue to do so.


While the Apache brand is indeed well known and has great recognition,
we’re looking more toward the neutral nature of being at Apache and
keeping the project alive in an environment that is not solely
controlled by a single entity.

Documentation


Kogito Documentation:
https://docs.kogito.kie.org/latest/html_single/#con-kogito-automation_kogito-docs

Drools Documentation: https://www.drools.org/learn/documentation.html

jBPM Documentation: https://docs.jbpm.org/7.73.0.Final/jbpm-docs/html_single/

Drools DMN Engine landing page: https://www.drools.org/learn/dmn.html

DMN Specification: https://www.omg.org/spec/DMN

BPMN Specification: https://www.omg.org/spec/BPMN/2.0/

Cloud Events Specification: https://github.com/cloudevents/spec

Initial Source

All the code will be coming from the KIE Community GitHub repo at
https://github.com/kiegroup. There will be multiple repositories
including examples and code bases for Drools, jBPM, and Kogito.

Source and Intellectual Property Submission Plan

  *   Source code within GitHub
  *   Domains: kie.org, kogito.org, kogito.kie.org, blog.kie.org,
jbpm.org, drools.org, bpmn.new, dmn.new, pmml.new, and sandbox.kie.org
are all currently owned by Red Hat

External Dependencies

There are some LGPL, and Eclipse dependencies for some of the projects
in the test or provided scopes of the Maven poms. For example jdt
dependencies for the Eclipse plugins, logback, junit, and similar.
Hibernate jars are LGPL as well, those are in jBPM.

Cryptography

There are some calls to the JVM vault, for process migration.


Required Resources


Mailing lists

  *   private@kie.incubator.apache.org
  *   dev@kie.incubator.apache.org
  *   commits@kie.incubator.apache.org

Subversion Directory

None


Git Repositories

Assuming we can continue to use GitHub, though it may need to migrate
to be beneath the Apache Organization.

Issue Tracking

If possible, we would like to use GitHub issues.

Other Resources

None.

Initial Committers

List of GitHub names:


Mario Fuscomariofusco

false


Toshiya Kobayashitkobayastrue
Matteo Mortaritarilabstrue
Tristan Radisson
radtristefalse
Gabriele Cardosigitgabriofalse
Edoardo Vacchievacchifalse
Paolo Bizzarripibizzafalse
Cristiano Nicolaicristianonicolai
false
Michael Biarnés Kiefermbiarnes
false
Enrique González Martínezelguardian
false
Vani Haripriya Mudadlavaniharipriya
false
Jason Porterlightguardtruelightguardjp@apache.org
Gonzalo Muñoz
gmunozfefalse
Francisco Javier Tirado Sarti
fjtiradofalse
Helber Belmiro
hbelmirotrue
Antonio Fernandez Alhambra
afalhambrafalse
Abhijit Humbe
abhijithumbefalse
Martin Weiler
martinweilerfalse
Enrique Mingorance Cano
ginxofalse
Tiago Dolphine
tiagodolphinefalse
Alex Porcelli
porcellifalse
Kris Verlaenen
krisvtrue(requested krisv@apache.org)
Pere Fernández
pefernanfalse
Jan Stastny
jstastny-czfalse
Jozef Marko
jomarkofalse
Walter Medvedeo
wmedvedefalse
Kennedy Bowers
kbowers-redhatfalse
Roberto Oliveira
rgdoliveirafalse
Andrea Lamparelli
lampajrfalse
Bai Xiaofeng
bxf12315false
Ruben Romero Montes
ruromerofalse
Filippe Spolti
spoltifalse
Massimiliano Dessì
desmax74true
Tiago Bento
tiagobentofalse
Yeser Amer
yesamerfalse
Guilherme Caponetto
caponettofalse
Paulo Martins
paulovmrfalse
Thiago Lugli
thiagoelgfalse
William Antônio Siqueira
jesuinofalse
Fabrizio Antonangeli
fantonangelifalse
Valentino Pellegrino
vpellegrinofalse
Ricardo Zanini
ricardozaninifalse
Tibor Zimányi
baldimirfalse
Eder Ignatowicz
ederignfalse
Mark Proctor
mdproctorfalse
Thiago Lugli
thiagoelgfalse
Luiz João Motta
ljmottafalse
Jaime Enriquezinodemanfalse
Luca Moltenilucamoltenifalse
Davide Salernodavidesalernotrue
Edson Tirelli
etirellifalse


Sponsors

Champion

Brian Proffitt

Nominated Mentors

Brian Proffitt
Claus Ibsen
Andrea Cosentino

Sponsoring Entity

Apache Camel

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