[REPOST] Alternatives to hidden frames in Turbine framework?

[Pat Saunders <ps...@comcen.com.au>]

G'day to all,
 I am contemplating the best way to retrieve data from the server.
 I have been mucking about using the "Pull model" and am very happy
 with the clean manner in which I can get data from the server, and present
 it inside the web page. When it comes to doing it dynamically, I have seen
 it done with frames and basically it looks painful to code and maintain
(and
 many people on the net seem to agree).

 I am curious as to how other bods do it in the context of Turbine/Pull/Push
 model that
 improves in some way on using frames (which really is a hack as far as I'm
 concerned).

 I have read on article at
http://www.onjava.com/pub/a/onjava/2002/01/23/javascript.html?page=1

 and it certainly appears to offer an alternative that can be wrapped in a
 Velocity Macro, or other templating tool.

 If people can point me to other tools/techniques that would be much
 appreciated,

 Thanks,

 Patrick.


ps. What's up with the server, I've posted twice recently and have not seen
them!?!?



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Re: [REPOST] Alternatives to hidden frames in Turbine framework?

[Eric Dobbs <er...@dobbse.net>]

> For example, the user interacts with the visible frame, though if you 
> (as
> the developer) need
> to access the the database for whatever reason, you just set the params
> of the hidden frame and do a GET request, parsing the response, (with 
> some
> help from Javascript
> of course). With the output, perhaps combos could be loaded or anything
> else done using Javascript or perhaps the content sent to another 
> window -
> the sky's the
> limit really.

I think I'm getting a better idea.  The idea is using javascript
to allow you to change the contents of a drop down menu, or
redraw a table without submitting a form.  Is that what you're
talking about?  Moving more of the display processing to the web
browser?

If that's what you're talking about, then I don't know of any
other ways to accomplish it.  You'll still need a hidden frame
to send and receive a GET request, and use JavaScript to parse
the response and then redraw the displayed page accordingly.
You could use Velocity templates to format the data into
JavaScript arrays, so that your scripts only have to eval the
response.

I think there is merit to the idea of moving display processing
to the client.  It would reduce the bandwidth required for a
web page and leverage processing power on the client.  But I
prefer to avoid it so I don't have to be bothered with the
dialect and DOM differences between the various browsers.

-Eric


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Re: [REPOST] Alternatives to hidden frames in Turbine framework?

[Pat Saunders <ps...@comcen.com.au>]

Hi Eric,
Having re-read my email I agree, it is unclear.
By "dynamic", I am referring to the ability to interact with the database
and hide this interaction from the user.

For example, the user interacts with the visible frame, though if you (as
the developer) need
to access the the database for whatever reason, you just set the params
of the hidden frame and do a GET request, parsing the response, (with some
help from Javascript
of course). With the output, perhaps combos could be loaded or anything
else done using Javascript or perhaps the content sent to another window -
the sky's the
limit really.

Hope that is a little clearer. Perhaps this is yesterdays tactics for some
of the guys here -
i wouldn't know, it's a little mind boggling for a new comer, though I am
interested
to hear your opinion of this.

BTW, this the first I have seen of my three posts, so thankyou for
responding - something
is up with someones (shrug) mail server.

Regards,

pat.

----- Original Message -----
From: Eric Dobbs <er...@dobbse.net>
To: Turbine Users List <tu...@jakarta.apache.org>
Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2002 6:15 AM
Subject: Re: [REPOST] Alternatives to hidden frames in Turbine framework?


> On Wednesday, February 6, 2002, at 02:22  AM, Pat Saunders wrote:
>
> >  I am contemplating the best way to retrieve data from the server.
> >  I have been mucking about using the "Pull model" and am very happy
> >  with the clean manner in which I can get data from the server, and
> > present
> >  it inside the web page. When it comes to doing it dynamically, I have
> > seen
> >  it done with frames and basically it looks painful to code and maintain
> > (and
> >  many people on the net seem to agree).
>
> I've seen your earlier posts and I'm confused by your question.
> What do you mean by "doing it dynamically"?  To my way of
> thinking, any template-based system (Velocity, JSP,  Perl's
> HTML::Mason, ASP, Cold Fusion, Tango) is "dynamically" generating
> web pages.
>
> <anti-frames-rant>
>    And any template system can replace frames in a much more
>    development friendly manner.  The only thing I've ever wanted to
>    do that can be done with frames and not done with templates is
>    creating fixed navigation elements and a scroll-able content
>    frame.  But the pain frames introduce has never been worth that
>    feature, so I try to design without a need for scrolling.
> </anti-frames-rant>
>
> So now you know where I'm coming from.  8^)  I don't understand
> what you mean by "doing it dynamically" nor do I understand what
> frames have to do with it.
>
> Please clear those things up and we'll see if I have anything
> useful to suggest.  8^)
>
> -Eric
>
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Re: [REPOST] Alternatives to hidden frames in Turbine framework?

[Eric Dobbs <er...@dobbse.net>]

On Wednesday, February 6, 2002, at 02:22  AM, Pat Saunders wrote:

>  I am contemplating the best way to retrieve data from the server.
>  I have been mucking about using the "Pull model" and am very happy
>  with the clean manner in which I can get data from the server, and 
> present
>  it inside the web page. When it comes to doing it dynamically, I have 
> seen
>  it done with frames and basically it looks painful to code and maintain
> (and
>  many people on the net seem to agree).

I've seen your earlier posts and I'm confused by your question.
What do you mean by "doing it dynamically"?  To my way of
thinking, any template-based system (Velocity, JSP,  Perl's
HTML::Mason, ASP, Cold Fusion, Tango) is "dynamically" generating
web pages.

<anti-frames-rant>
   And any template system can replace frames in a much more
   development friendly manner.  The only thing I've ever wanted to
   do that can be done with frames and not done with templates is
   creating fixed navigation elements and a scroll-able content
   frame.  But the pain frames introduce has never been worth that
   feature, so I try to design without a need for scrolling.
</anti-frames-rant>

So now you know where I'm coming from.  8^)  I don't understand
what you mean by "doing it dynamically" nor do I understand what
frames have to do with it.

Please clear those things up and we'll see if I have anything
useful to suggest.  8^)

-Eric

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