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Posted to community@apache.org by Santiago Gala <sg...@hisitech.com> on 2003/07/08 18:50:34 UTC
Re: Apache != HTTPD (was Issues with XMLBeans proposal)
Stephen Haberman escribió:
> On Tue, Jul 08, 2003 at 12:58:17AM -0700, Greg Stein wrote:
>
>>>I'd do it when they'll donate Python itself ;-) Does wishful
>>>thinking work?
>>
>>Believe me, I suggested that years ago. The Python Software
>>Foundation was started instead (Dick Hardt and I crafted the PSF
>>bylaws based on the ASF's bylaws). The main backers of a PSF
>>effort thought that the ASF was still too confusingly tied to the
>>Apache HTTP Server (despite my protests). I think if we asked
>>again, today, that the answer would be that Apache stands for much
>>more. But the PSF has got its own momentum now, so there wouldn't
>>be much benefit for them to fold up and merge the Python assets
>>into the ASF.
>
>
> I can understand that they think the general perception is that
> Apache == HTTPD. Perhaps measures are already in place to help
> educate people on the distinction, e.g. you think if Apache asked
> Python to merge with it again today, they would accept, but perhaps
> active marketting measures need to be taken to enhance/protect the
> Apache brand?
>
> Perhaps I'm getting too commercial or what not, but I've seen just
> 'Apache' in many places where they meant 'Apache HTTPD' so I can
> certainly understand the Python community's hestitation.
>
> E.g. the FreeBSD ports collection, the 'Powered by Apache 2.0' logo
> on my FreeBSD port-installed HTTPD server (is there a 2.0 version of
> the foundation?). Other things that come to mind are distro
> installers like RedHat, or even cygwin, let me install 'apache-xxx'.
>
> Even the Apache HTTPD FAQ, which I just checked to see how it
> handles the definitions, the first question, is:
>
> Q: "What is Apache?"
> A: "The Apache httpd server"
>
> The entire thing refers to "Apache" as synonymous for the HTTPD
> server project.
>
> And I'm sure this happens elsewhere on the net, as well. E.g.
> anytime a news site mentions it. Even slashdot had the other day
> 'Software Code Quality of Apache Analyzed', which was where some
> commercial code quality compared compared the HTTPD 2.0 code to some
> commercial web server.
>
> (The front page of the httpd.apache.org site also refers to itself
> as 'Apache HTTP Server', which is a little misleading, as there is
> another HTTP server, Tomcat, and you don't see it masquerading as
> the 'Apache HTTP Server' which it can claim, history of the HTTPD
> project asside, just as legitimately. Perhaps this opens up a can of
> political worms, but I think strictly branding HTTPD as HTTPD and
> not 'Apache' or even 'Apache HTTP Server' is a good idea.)
>
The reverse of this is that I don't often see Jakarta, Tomcat, Ant,
Velocity, Xerces or Xalan referenced as Apache XXX. So, it looks like
the people cannot stick two words together and still be a brand.
Side Note: It reminds me of the GNU/Linux stuff (or even GNU Emacs). It
simply doesn't stick.
I usually say: I work in Jetspeed, an Apache Jakarta project. But even
so, people loose track easily.
> What if some one/a group of people were to form a watchdog group
> that would bring to the attention of people who get this wrong, e.g.
> news articles, older articles around the Apache/HTTPD site, the
> FreeBSD ports collection, the distro makers, etc., that they should
> infact use 'Apache HTTPD' instead of just 'Apache'.
>
> It might be good preparation for the next X project that comes along
> but still things the general public/developer things Apache == HTTPD
> (because they do, IMHO, even if it's better than before) and so we
> lose the opportunity.
>
> In the spirit of 'submit a patch,' I'd volunteer to at least be a
> part of this watchdog group; I'm a little leery of the political
> side of what it would take to get it formed and the respect for
> people to listen to it. But if people think its a good idea and
> higher ups in ASF like it, I'm willing to tag along and help out.
>
I copy community (on political principles). If you want to raise
awareness of such an "Apache wide" fact, don't do it in a "java only"
place like Jakarta.
> - Stephen
>
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Re: Apache != HTTPD
Posted by Tetsuya Kitahata <te...@apache.org>.
On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 12:41:59 +0200
(Subject: RE: Apache != HTTPD)
"Sander Striker" <st...@apache.org> wrote:
> > I saw "[ANNOUNCE][SECURITY] Apache 2.0.47 released" titled mail from
> > <an...@apache.org>... this is not good, because I had to edit the
> > article to make a change at site/elsewhere.html :D
> That goes with editing a newsletter IMHO.
Ahhh.. Very sorry... I meant "jakarta-site2/xdocs/site/elsewhere.xml".
http://jakarta.apache.org/site/elsewhere.html#20030709.1
This is not directly related to the apache newsletter. Rather,
"Jakarta Headline News" seen at the top page of Jakarta website.
http://jakarta.apache.org/
When I made a change on this "Headline News", I had to append
<HTTPD Webserver> if the announce was <Apache 2.0.47 released>.
Make sense?
> Oh, and why was this CC'd to general@jakarta?
Previous mail had been cross-posted, so.
Sincerely,
-- Tetsuya (tetsuya@apache.org)
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Re: Apache != HTTPD
Posted by Nicola Ken Barozzi <ni...@apache.org>.
On 7/17/03 2:04 PM, "Alex McLintock" <al...@OWAL.co.uk> wrote:
>I have another related problem....
>
>Recruitment Agent: Have you done Struts?
>Me: Yes I have done some Struts. I can point you at websites I have built
>with Apache Struts.
>Agent: Is that the same as "Jakarta Struts"?
>Me: <explanation of the ASF and its projects>
ROTFL!
Gnu guy: "Linux is just a kernel, we should call the
OS Gnu/Linux...".
Apache guy: "Apache is not just a webserver, the server
should be called Apache HTTPD..."
;-P
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi nicolaken@apache.org
- verba volant, scripta manent -
(discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
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Re: Apache != HTTPD
Posted by "Andrew C. Oliver" <ac...@apache.org>.
On 7/17/03 2:04 PM, "Alex McLintock" <al...@OWAL.co.uk> wrote:
>
> I have another related problem....
>
> Recruitment Agent: Have you done Struts?
> Me: Yes I have done some Struts. I can point you at websites I have built
> with Apache Struts.
> Agent: Is that the same as "Jakarta Struts"?
> Me: <explanation of the ASF and its projects>
>
> I think this whole Jakarta brand has backfired and is diluting the Apache
> name.
>
> But few people seem to care about the ASF's professional image....
>
> Alex
>
On POI we've been discussing (on occasion) a new top level project called
"fileformats" (or something like that) and things like POI and other things
that will evolve around manipulating file formats could go there.
-Andy
>
>
> Available for java/perl/C++/web development in London, UK or nearby.
> Apache FOP, Cocoon, Turbine, Struts,XSL:FO, XML, Tomcat, JSP
> http://www.OWAL.co.uk/
>
>
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Re: Apache != HTTPD
Posted by Henri Yandell <ba...@generationjava.com>.
On Thu, 17 Jul 2003, Alex McLintock wrote:
>
> >Brian McCallister wrote:
> >
> At 16:28 17/07/03, Erik Price wrote:
> >Spoken out loud, I use "Apache Web Server" and in writing I use "Apache
> >HTTPD". Once the context is clear (that I am referring to the software
> >and not the organization), I typically shorten it to just "Apache" if I
> >have to refer to it again.
>
> Recruitment Agent: Have you done Struts?
> Me: Yes I have done some Struts. I can point you at websites I have built
> with Apache Struts.
> Agent: Is that the same as "Jakarta Struts"?
> Me: <explanation of the ASF and its projects>
>
> I think this whole Jakarta brand has backfired and is diluting the Apache
> name.
>
> But few people seem to care about the ASF's professional image....
In actual fact it's the other way around I think. ASF care about the brand
image and are taking steps to remove the Jakarta brand. This is why you
see things like Ant/Maven being promoted.
A year ago, when asked what the lagest Java open-source project would be,
people would say 'Jakarta'. They are now slowly [it'll take years] moving
to saying 'Apache's Jakarta'.
Personally I think it would have been easier to just accept that Jakarta
was a stronger brand than Apache in the Java space and benefited from
that, but the logistics of setting Jakarta up at a higher level would have
been painful.
We could always pull a Mozilla and rename httpd to something else. At the
very least I shouldn't be dealing with apache with:
/etc/init.d/apache restart
or
apachectl restart
These just help to confirm the belief that Apache is a web server.
Hen
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Re: Apache != HTTPD
Posted by Alex McLintock <al...@OWAL.co.uk>.
>Brian McCallister wrote:
>>So... "We are using Apache, that is really Apache Hutpud, but you cannot
>>write hutpud because it confuses people about the Apache Software
>>Foundation, which develops much more than hutpud." This is even worse =)
At 16:28 17/07/03, Erik Price wrote:
>Spoken out loud, I use "Apache Web Server" and in writing I use "Apache
>HTTPD". Once the context is clear (that I am referring to the software
>and not the organization), I typically shorten it to just "Apache" if I
>have to refer to it again.
I have another related problem....
Recruitment Agent: Have you done Struts?
Me: Yes I have done some Struts. I can point you at websites I have built
with Apache Struts.
Agent: Is that the same as "Jakarta Struts"?
Me: <explanation of the ASF and its projects>
I think this whole Jakarta brand has backfired and is diluting the Apache
name.
But few people seem to care about the ASF's professional image....
Alex
Available for java/perl/C++/web development in London, UK or nearby.
Apache FOP, Cocoon, Turbine, Struts,XSL:FO, XML, Tomcat, JSP
http://www.OWAL.co.uk/
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Re: Apache != HTTPD
Posted by Erik Price <ep...@ptc.com>.
Brian McCallister wrote:
> So... "We are using Apache, that is really Apache Hutpud, but you cannot
> write hutpud because it confuses people about the Apache Software
> Foundation, which develops much more than hutpud." This is even worse =)
Spoken out loud, I use "Apache Web Server" and in writing I use "Apache
HTTPD". Once the context is clear (that I am referring to the software
and not the organization), I typically shorten it to just "Apache" if I
have to refer to it again.
Erik
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Re: Apache != HTTPD
Posted by Brian McCallister <mc...@forthillcompany.com>.
> You can Say Apache, because you're right there in front of them to
> clear up
> any confusion.
>
> For the ASF to call HTTPD "Apache" perpetuates the myth that thats all
> there
> is to it.
So... "We are using Apache, that is really Apache Hutpud, but you
cannot write hutpud because it confuses people about the Apache
Software Foundation, which develops much more than hutpud." This is
even worse =)
You could do a Bill the Cat type pronunciation, maybe.
But seriously, I don't disagree, just point out a big reason why it
will be very difficult to ever relabel "Apache [HTTPD]" to "[Apache]
HTTPD". People do have to say it, and saying one thing but writing
another is too complicated for people without an emotional attachment
(or who are well skilled in double-think).
-Brian
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RE: Apache != HTTPD
Posted by Danny Angus <da...@apache.org>.
> The biggest problem with Apache != httpd is saying the name when you
> are talking (out loud) to people about it. I mean "We use h-t-t-p-d"
> just takes too long to say. "Hutpud" sounds absurd.
You can Say Apache, because you're right there in front of them to clear up
any confusion.
For the ASF to call HTTPD "Apache" perpetuates the myth that thats all there
is to it.
d.
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Re: Apache != HTTPD
Posted by Brian McCallister <mc...@forthillcompany.com>.
On Thursday, July 17, 2003, at 05:32 AM, Tetsuya Kitahata wrote:
>
> the image * Apache == Apache HTTPD * will gradually diminish.
>
> At the same time, IMHO, HTTPD members are better to take it into
> consideration when they publish the [announcement] to announce@apache.
>
> I saw "[ANNOUNCE][SECURITY] Apache 2.0.47 released" titled mail from
> <an...@apache.org>... this is not good, because I had to edit the
> article to make a change at site/elsewhere.html :D
>
The biggest problem with Apache != httpd is saying the name when you
are talking (out loud) to people about it. I mean "We use h-t-t-p-d"
just takes too long to say. "Hutpud" sounds absurd.
-Brian
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RE: Apache != HTTPD
Posted by Sander Striker <st...@apache.org>.
> From: Henning Schmiedehausen [mailto:hps@intermeta.de]
> Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2003 1:15 PM
> I think he meant, that the Announcement should have read
>
> "[ANNOUNCE][SECURITY] Apache HTTPD 2.0.47 released"
>
> because "Apache" != HTTPD (oh, look at the subject. ;-) )
Ah, explicitness is good. Now I understand the fuss.
The label should read:
"Apache HTTP Server"
Sander
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RE: Apache != HTTPD
Posted by Henning Schmiedehausen <hp...@intermeta.de>.
I think he meant, that the Announcement should have read
"[ANNOUNCE][SECURITY] Apache HTTPD 2.0.47 released"
because "Apache" != HTTPD (oh, look at the subject. ;-) )
Regards
Henning
On Thu, 2003-07-17 at 12:41, Sander Striker wrote:
> > From: Tetsuya Kitahata [mailto:tetsuya@apache.org]
> > Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2003 11:32 AM
[...]
> > I saw "[ANNOUNCE][SECURITY] Apache 2.0.47 released" titled mail from
> > <an...@apache.org>... this is not good, because I had to edit the
> > article to make a change at site/elsewhere.html :D
>
> That goes with editing a newsletter IMHO.
>
> Oh, and why was this CC'd to general@jakarta?
>
>
> Sander
>
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RE: Apache != HTTPD
Posted by Sander Striker <st...@apache.org>.
> From: Tetsuya Kitahata [mailto:tetsuya@apache.org]
> Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2003 11:32 AM
> "The Apache Newsletter" will be published from next month, and sure
> the image * Apache == Apache HTTPD * will gradually diminish.
>
> At the same time, IMHO, HTTPD members are better to take it into
> consideration when they publish the [announcement] to announce@apache.
You can't be serious. The RM has enough things to think about when
doing a release. Updating a newsletter is not on that list. Besides,
if the newsletter guys see the announcement on the ASF wide announcement
list, isn't that enough?
> I saw "[ANNOUNCE][SECURITY] Apache 2.0.47 released" titled mail from
> <an...@apache.org>... this is not good, because I had to edit the
> article to make a change at site/elsewhere.html :D
That goes with editing a newsletter IMHO.
Oh, and why was this CC'd to general@jakarta?
Sander
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Re: Apache != HTTPD
Posted by Tetsuya Kitahata <te...@apache.org>.
Privet!
On Thu, 10 Jul 2003 15:01:57 -0400
(Subject: RE: Apache != HTTPD (was Issues with XMLBeans proposal))
"Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com> wrote:
> > > What if some one/a group of people were to form a watchdog group
> > > that would bring to the attention of [that] they should infact
> > > use 'Apache HTTPD' instead of just 'Apache'.
>
> > If you want to raise awareness of such an "Apache wide" fact, don't
> > do it in a "java only" place like Jakarta.
>
> An Apache Software Foundation newsletter, as an outgrowth from the great
> work on the Jakarta newsletter, would provide an overall picture of the
> scope of the ASF's projects, and should help to naturally dispel the Apache
> == Apache HTTPD image.
"The Apache Newsletter" will be published from next month, and sure
the image * Apache == Apache HTTPD * will gradually diminish.
At the same time, IMHO, HTTPD members are better to take it into
consideration when they publish the [announcement] to announce@apache.
I saw "[ANNOUNCE][SECURITY] Apache 2.0.47 released" titled mail from
<an...@apache.org>... this is not good, because I had to edit the
article to make a change at site/elsewhere.html :D
Da Svidanya.
-- Tetsuya (tetsuya@apache.org)
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Re: Apache != HTTPD
Posted by Tetsuya Kitahata <te...@apache.org>.
Privet!
On Thu, 10 Jul 2003 15:01:57 -0400
(Subject: RE: Apache != HTTPD (was Issues with XMLBeans proposal))
"Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com> wrote:
> > > What if some one/a group of people were to form a watchdog group
> > > that would bring to the attention of [that] they should infact
> > > use 'Apache HTTPD' instead of just 'Apache'.
>
> > If you want to raise awareness of such an "Apache wide" fact, don't
> > do it in a "java only" place like Jakarta.
>
> An Apache Software Foundation newsletter, as an outgrowth from the great
> work on the Jakarta newsletter, would provide an overall picture of the
> scope of the ASF's projects, and should help to naturally dispel the Apache
> == Apache HTTPD image.
"The Apache Newsletter" will be published from next month, and sure
the image * Apache == Apache HTTPD * will gradually diminish.
At the same time, IMHO, HTTPD members are better to take it into
consideration when they publish the [announcement] to announce@apache.
I saw "[ANNOUNCE][SECURITY] Apache 2.0.47 released" titled mail from
<an...@apache.org>... this is not good, because I had to edit the
article to make a change at site/elsewhere.html :D
Da Svidanya.
-- Tetsuya (tetsuya@apache.org)
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Re: Apache != HTTPD (was Issues with XMLBeans proposal)
Posted by Santiago Gala <sg...@hisitech.com>.
Erik Price escribió:
>
>
> Stephen Haberman wrote:
>
>> Much agreed, and ideally we could rebrand the HTTPD project as just
>> that, 'HTTPD'. No Apache prefix, as you're right, none of the other
>> projects use the Apache prefix (maybe because it's already taken by
>> HTTPD?).
>
>
>
> Wasn't that the name of the original NCSA web server?
>
True, and when heavily patched, it became "A-patchy HTTPD", or so the
legend says.
http://www.ecn.purdue.edu/~laird/thoughts/Apache_intro.html
http://www.userfriendly.org/cartoons/archives/00mar/20000330.html
>
> Erik
>
>
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Re: Apache != HTTPD (was Issues with XMLBeans proposal)
Posted by Erik Price <ep...@ptc.com>.
Stephen Haberman wrote:
> Much agreed, and ideally we could rebrand the HTTPD project as just
> that, 'HTTPD'. No Apache prefix, as you're right, none of the other
> projects use the Apache prefix (maybe because it's already taken by
> HTTPD?).
Wasn't that the name of the original NCSA web server?
Erik
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Re: Apache != HTTPD (was Issues with XMLBeans proposal)
Posted by Stephen Haberman <st...@beachead.com>.
On Tue, Jul 08, 2003 at 06:50:34PM +0200, Santiago Gala wrote:
> The reverse of this is that I don't often see Jakarta, Tomcat,
> Ant, Velocity, Xerces or Xalan referenced as Apache XXX. So, it
> looks like the people cannot stick two words together and still be
> a brand.
>
> Side Note: It reminds me of the GNU/Linux stuff (or even GNU
> Emacs). It simply doesn't stick.
Much agreed, and ideally we could rebrand the HTTPD project as just
that, 'HTTPD'. No Apache prefix, as you're right, none of the other
projects use the Apache prefix (maybe because it's already taken by
HTTPD?).
I thought of proposing this rename to just HTTPD, but could see it
getting even more backlash than the 'Apache' -> 'Apache HTTPD'
rename. If we went straight 'Apache' -> 'HTTPD', then there'd be a
hard conversion for, say, system admins scrolling through install
screens (or the FreeBSD ports collection) looking for 'Apache
1.x/2.x' and not seeing anything.
Think of all the confusion renaming something like 'apachectl' to
'httpdctl' or just 'httpd' would cause. In theory, I'm all for it,
and the purist side of me really likes it, but I was trying to be a
bit more pragmattic.
With the 'Apache HTTPD' rename, I think it'd easier politically to
get the change through in places like Redhat, FreeBSD ports
collection, etc.
> I copy community (on political principles). If you want to raise
> awareness of such an "Apache wide" fact, don't do it in a "java
> only" place like Jakarta.
Makes sense; I had forgotten this 'general' was at
'jakarta.apache.org' instead of just 'apache.org'.
Actually, I think I'd like to get support for this before taking it
to community. If people here at Jakarta don't want to go ahead with
pursuing a rebranding effort, then I wouldn't bother raising it on
community.
Also, thinking about the strict 'Apache' -> 'HTTPD' rename, just
'HTTPD' sounds rather clunky (to me, perhaps being naive). If the
HTTPD community doesn't like being called just httpd, what if we did
an even more drastic rename? A la the Mozilla Phoenix -> Mozilla
Firebird rename. It might actually work better, because if it's a
bigger deal then just 'Apache' -> 'Apache HTTPD', we could get lots
of publicity on slashdot and other tech sites to inform end users of
the change and hopefully avert some of the backlash on 'apache' no
longer being in ports/installers/paths/etc.
- Stephen
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Re: Apache != HTTPD (was Issues with XMLBeans proposal)
Posted by Henri Yandell <ba...@generationjava.com>.
On Sat, 12 Jul 2003, Vadim Gritsenko wrote:
> Noel J. Bergman wrote:
>
> Agreed. On the same topic. Has anyone noticed following on the
> marc.theaimsgroup.com [1]?
>
> * Apache <http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?w=2>* Projects of the Apache
> Server Foundation
Might be good to tell them that the Jakarta mail lists should go under
'Apache' and not under 'Java' too.
Hen
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Re: Apache != HTTPD (was Issues with XMLBeans proposal)
Posted by Henri Yandell <ba...@generationjava.com>.
On Sat, 12 Jul 2003, Vadim Gritsenko wrote:
> Noel J. Bergman wrote:
>
> Agreed. On the same topic. Has anyone noticed following on the
> marc.theaimsgroup.com [1]?
>
> * Apache <http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?w=2>* Projects of the Apache
> Server Foundation
Might be good to tell them that the Jakarta mail lists should go under
'Apache' and not under 'Java' too.
Hen
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Re: Apache != HTTPD (was Issues with XMLBeans proposal)
Posted by Vadim Gritsenko <va...@verizon.net>.
Noel J. Bergman wrote:
>>>What if some one/a group of people were to form a watchdog group
>>>that would bring to the attention of [that] they should infact
>>>use 'Apache HTTPD' instead of just 'Apache'.
>>>
>>>
>
>
>
>>If you want to raise awareness of such an "Apache wide" fact, don't
>>do it in a "java only" place like Jakarta.
>>
>>
>
>An Apache Software Foundation newsletter, as an outgrowth from the great
>work on the Jakarta newsletter, would provide an overall picture of the
>scope of the ASF's projects, and should help to naturally dispel the Apache
>== Apache HTTPD image.
>
Agreed. On the same topic. Has anyone noticed following on the
marc.theaimsgroup.com [1]?
* Apache <http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?w=2>* Projects of the Apache
Server Foundation
We should notify them about ASF acronym...
[1] http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=apache-announce&r=1&w=2
Vadim
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Re: Apache != HTTPD (was Issues with XMLBeans proposal)
Posted by Vadim Gritsenko <va...@verizon.net>.
Noel J. Bergman wrote:
>>>What if some one/a group of people were to form a watchdog group
>>>that would bring to the attention of [that] they should infact
>>>use 'Apache HTTPD' instead of just 'Apache'.
>>>
>>>
>
>
>
>>If you want to raise awareness of such an "Apache wide" fact, don't
>>do it in a "java only" place like Jakarta.
>>
>>
>
>An Apache Software Foundation newsletter, as an outgrowth from the great
>work on the Jakarta newsletter, would provide an overall picture of the
>scope of the ASF's projects, and should help to naturally dispel the Apache
>== Apache HTTPD image.
>
Agreed. On the same topic. Has anyone noticed following on the
marc.theaimsgroup.com [1]?
* Apache <http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?w=2>* Projects of the Apache
Server Foundation
We should notify them about ASF acronym...
[1] http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=apache-announce&r=1&w=2
Vadim
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RE: Apache != HTTPD (was Issues with XMLBeans proposal)
Posted by "Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com>.
> > What if some one/a group of people were to form a watchdog group
> > that would bring to the attention of [that] they should infact
> > use 'Apache HTTPD' instead of just 'Apache'.
> If you want to raise awareness of such an "Apache wide" fact, don't
> do it in a "java only" place like Jakarta.
An Apache Software Foundation newsletter, as an outgrowth from the great
work on the Jakarta newsletter, would provide an overall picture of the
scope of the ASF's projects, and should help to naturally dispel the Apache
== Apache HTTPD image.
As a matter of trademark law, I believe that Apache needs to be used as an
adjective not a noun. See http://www.sun.com/policies/trademarks/#10 and
following passages. Arguably, the footer on ASF web pages should have a
link to a similar page; at least to the licensing FAQ:
http://www.apache.org/foundation/licence-FAQ.html#Marks.
See also:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=trademark+use+adj
ective
--- Noel
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RE: Apache != HTTPD (was Issues with XMLBeans proposal)
Posted by "Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com>.
> > What if some one/a group of people were to form a watchdog group
> > that would bring to the attention of [that] they should infact
> > use 'Apache HTTPD' instead of just 'Apache'.
> If you want to raise awareness of such an "Apache wide" fact, don't
> do it in a "java only" place like Jakarta.
An Apache Software Foundation newsletter, as an outgrowth from the great
work on the Jakarta newsletter, would provide an overall picture of the
scope of the ASF's projects, and should help to naturally dispel the Apache
== Apache HTTPD image.
As a matter of trademark law, I believe that Apache needs to be used as an
adjective not a noun. See http://www.sun.com/policies/trademarks/#10 and
following passages. Arguably, the footer on ASF web pages should have a
link to a similar page; at least to the licensing FAQ:
http://www.apache.org/foundation/licence-FAQ.html#Marks.
See also:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=trademark+use+adj
ective
--- Noel
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