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Posted to dev@avalon.apache.org by Paul Hammant <Pa...@yahoo.com> on 2001/10/21 01:18:03 UTC
[Vote] Getting started with a Phoenix app
I'm speaking to lots of Open Source people about their projects and
porting to Avalon/Phoenix. In some cases they are keen on migration, in
others keen on dual mode. In all cases they don't know where to start.
Now HelloWorld is a simple example, but it's highly tied to the rest of
Cornerstone.
I'd like to, if all are in agreement, have an even leaner demo that is
included in the phoenix project.
It would :
1) only be included in Phoenix's source distribution
2) also be a separate self contained source distibution
3) have a build target in the parent build script that makes the child
source distribution.
Imagine a dir in phoenix called "newbie-sample" that contains:
readme.txt
build.bat
build.sh
build.xml (not phoenix's one)
src/java/foo/Bar.java
src/java/foo/Fred.java
src/java/foo/Wilma.java
src/javafoo/Bar.xinfo
src/conf/sample-assembly.xml
src/conf/sample-config.xml
src/conf/sample-server.xml
src/manifest/server.mf
Imaging invoking "build sample" in Phoenix's main build script that
makes a zip that includes the above plus:
lib\cornerstone.bar
lib\cornerstone-compilation.jar
lib\logkit.jar
lib\avalon-framework.jar
lib\avalon-excalibur-20010919.jar
lib\avalon-scratchpad-20010919.jar
lib\phoenix-client-20010922.jar
This would allow the zip (phoenix-app-for-newbies.zip) be unzipped and
newbie to start work making a SAR compatible server application. Of
course the build.xml file would contain the bare minimum of build
targets as often people are new to Ant as well. The newbie would have
to get Ant 1.4.1 and edit the build.bat file to set ANT_HOME if they
have not installed Ant.
Votes/Opinions please?
- PH
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Re: [Vote] Getting started with a Phoenix app
Posted by Mircea Toma <mi...@home.com>.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Hammant" <Pa...@yahoo.com>
To: "Avalon Development" <av...@jakarta.apache.org>
Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2001 7:04 AM
Subject: Re: [Vote] Getting started with a Phoenix app
> Peter,
>
> >How about placing it in the apps/pdk directory ?
> >
> I think it is important to place this effort inside the phoenix CVS and
> not cornerstone (what you were hinting?). It the complicated build
> files that really scare off newbies.
+1 as part of Phoenix CVS (Cornertstone apps are more unstable that Phoenix
which can really scare off any newcomers)!
mircea
>
> - Paul
>
>
>
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Re: [Vote] Getting started with a Phoenix app
Posted by Paul Hammant <Pa...@yahoo.com>.
Peter,
>How about placing it in the apps/pdk directory ?
>
I think it is important to place this effort inside the phoenix CVS and
not cornerstone (what you were hinting?). It the complicated build
files that really scare off newbies.
- Paul
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Re: [Vote] Getting started with a Phoenix app
Posted by Peter Donald <do...@apache.org>.
On Sun, 21 Oct 2001 19:34, Paul Hammant wrote:
> >Or better, Phoenix Developers Kit (PDK)
>
> Jeff's 'lazy approval' noted, I'd be keen to get terminology right.
>
> 1) It is known as the Phoenix Developer Kit.
> 2) It is in a dir called <root>/developer-kit or <root>src/developer-kit
> 3) It makes avalon-phoenix-developer-kit.zip (and tar.gz)
> 4) That zip contains a very simple, self contained, well documented
> sample project.
>
> The idea is that newbies, learn Ant, take the zip, massage it from demo
> to real block adaptiation of their own app, and publish the fact that
> their app is phoenix compatible.
How about placing it in the apps/pdk directory ?
--
Cheers,
Pete
----------------------------------------
Whatever you do will be insignificant,
but it is very important that you do it.
--Gandhi
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Re: [Vote] Getting started with a Phoenix app
Posted by Paul Hammant <Pa...@yahoo.com>.
Jeff ,
>
>Something I missed in your previous post:
>
> "The newbie would have to get Ant 1.4.1 and edit the build.bat file to set
> ANT_HOME if they have not installed Ant."
>
>If they install Ant properly, why would shell and bat files be needed?
>
Some of us don't like installing Ant as we're playing with multiple
versions. With Avalon that is particularly true. Peter Donald is one
the main contributors to Ant and he's pushing it the whole time. We
already have <sar> as a taskdef that is not in Ant (the PDK build.xml
file would not use it as we are attracting newbies). When we rech teh
ant2 era, it will be open season on taskdefs, but for the moment it's
easiest to include the Ant your want to use inside your source repository.
Regards,
- Paul H
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Re: [Vote] Getting started with a Phoenix app
Posted by Jeff Turner <je...@socialchange.net.au>.
On Sun, Oct 21, 2001 at 10:34:07AM +0100, Paul Hammant wrote:
> >
> >
> >Or better, Phoenix Developers Kit (PDK)
> >
> Jeff's 'lazy approval' noted, I'd be keen to get terminology right.
>
> 1) It is known as the Phoenix Developer Kit.
> 2) It is in a dir called <root>/developer-kit or <root>src/developer-kit
src/ for preference, as it will require 'building' (copying jars etc) before
it's usable.
> 3) It makes avalon-phoenix-developer-kit.zip (and tar.gz)
> 4) That zip contains a very simple, self contained, well documented
> sample project.
Groovy. I have a half-assembled equivalent for excalibur here, based on Berin's
dev guide. Hopefully one day there will be an 'Avalon Dev Kit' containing
everything.
> The idea is that newbies, learn Ant, take the zip, massage it from demo
> to real block adaptiation of their own app, and publish the fact that
> their app is phoenix compatible.
Something I missed in your previous post:
"The newbie would have to get Ant 1.4.1 and edit the build.bat file to set
ANT_HOME if they have not installed Ant."
If they install Ant properly, why would shell and bat files be needed?
--Jeff
> Regards,
>
> - Paul H
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Re: [Vote] Getting started with a Phoenix app
Posted by Paul Hammant <Pa...@yahoo.com>.
>
>
>Or better, Phoenix Developers Kit (PDK)
>
Jeff's 'lazy approval' noted, I'd be keen to get terminology right.
1) It is known as the Phoenix Developer Kit.
2) It is in a dir called <root>/developer-kit or <root>src/developer-kit
3) It makes avalon-phoenix-developer-kit.zip (and tar.gz)
4) That zip contains a very simple, self contained, well documented
sample project.
The idea is that newbies, learn Ant, take the zip, massage it from demo
to real block adaptiation of their own app, and publish the fact that
their app is phoenix compatible.
Regards,
- Paul H
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Re: [Vote] Getting started with a Phoenix app
Posted by Peter Donald <do...@apache.org>.
Or better, Phoenix Developers Kit (PDK)
On Sun, 21 Oct 2001 10:16, Peter Donald wrote:
> +1
>
> Very good idea. To keep in line with other Apache products I would like it
> to be called Avalon Developers Kit (ADK).
>
> On Sun, 21 Oct 2001 09:18, Paul Hammant wrote:
> > I'm speaking to lots of Open Source people about their projects and
> > porting to Avalon/Phoenix. In some cases they are keen on migration, in
> > others keen on dual mode. In all cases they don't know where to start.
> > Now HelloWorld is a simple example, but it's highly tied to the rest of
> > Cornerstone.
> >
> > I'd like to, if all are in agreement, have an even leaner demo that is
> > included in the phoenix project.
> >
> > It would :
> >
> > 1) only be included in Phoenix's source distribution
> > 2) also be a separate self contained source distibution
> > 3) have a build target in the parent build script that makes the child
> > source distribution.
> >
> > Imagine a dir in phoenix called "newbie-sample" that contains:
> >
> > readme.txt
> > build.bat
> > build.sh
> > build.xml (not phoenix's one)
> > src/java/foo/Bar.java
> > src/java/foo/Fred.java
> > src/java/foo/Wilma.java
> > src/javafoo/Bar.xinfo
> > src/conf/sample-assembly.xml
> > src/conf/sample-config.xml
> > src/conf/sample-server.xml
> > src/manifest/server.mf
> >
> > Imaging invoking "build sample" in Phoenix's main build script that
> > makes a zip that includes the above plus:
> >
> > lib\cornerstone.bar
> > lib\cornerstone-compilation.jar
> > lib\logkit.jar
> > lib\avalon-framework.jar
> > lib\avalon-excalibur-20010919.jar
> > lib\avalon-scratchpad-20010919.jar
> > lib\phoenix-client-20010922.jar
> >
> > This would allow the zip (phoenix-app-for-newbies.zip) be unzipped and
> > newbie to start work making a SAR compatible server application. Of
> > course the build.xml file would contain the bare minimum of build
> > targets as often people are new to Ant as well. The newbie would have
> > to get Ant 1.4.1 and edit the build.bat file to set ANT_HOME if they
> > have not installed Ant.
> >
> > Votes/Opinions please?
> >
> > - PH
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: avalon-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: avalon-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
--
Cheers,
Pete
---------------------------------------------------------------
The difference between genius, and stupidity? Genius has limits
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Re: [Vote] Getting started with a Phoenix app
Posted by Peter Donald <do...@apache.org>.
+1
Very good idea. To keep in line with other Apache products I would like it to
be called Avalon Developers Kit (ADK).
On Sun, 21 Oct 2001 09:18, Paul Hammant wrote:
> I'm speaking to lots of Open Source people about their projects and
> porting to Avalon/Phoenix. In some cases they are keen on migration, in
> others keen on dual mode. In all cases they don't know where to start.
> Now HelloWorld is a simple example, but it's highly tied to the rest of
> Cornerstone.
>
> I'd like to, if all are in agreement, have an even leaner demo that is
> included in the phoenix project.
>
> It would :
>
> 1) only be included in Phoenix's source distribution
> 2) also be a separate self contained source distibution
> 3) have a build target in the parent build script that makes the child
> source distribution.
>
> Imagine a dir in phoenix called "newbie-sample" that contains:
>
> readme.txt
> build.bat
> build.sh
> build.xml (not phoenix's one)
> src/java/foo/Bar.java
> src/java/foo/Fred.java
> src/java/foo/Wilma.java
> src/javafoo/Bar.xinfo
> src/conf/sample-assembly.xml
> src/conf/sample-config.xml
> src/conf/sample-server.xml
> src/manifest/server.mf
>
> Imaging invoking "build sample" in Phoenix's main build script that
> makes a zip that includes the above plus:
>
> lib\cornerstone.bar
> lib\cornerstone-compilation.jar
> lib\logkit.jar
> lib\avalon-framework.jar
> lib\avalon-excalibur-20010919.jar
> lib\avalon-scratchpad-20010919.jar
> lib\phoenix-client-20010922.jar
>
> This would allow the zip (phoenix-app-for-newbies.zip) be unzipped and
> newbie to start work making a SAR compatible server application. Of
> course the build.xml file would contain the bare minimum of build
> targets as often people are new to Ant as well. The newbie would have
> to get Ant 1.4.1 and edit the build.bat file to set ANT_HOME if they
> have not installed Ant.
>
> Votes/Opinions please?
>
> - PH
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: avalon-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: avalon-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
--
Cheers,
Pete
---------------------------------------------------
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sure you get taken."
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Re: [Vote] Getting started with a Phoenix app
Posted by Jar Lyons <jl...@bluescooter.com>.
+1 .... having just started with Avalon/Phoenix/Cornerstone, I could
STILL benefit from this
Paul Hammant wrote:
> I'm speaking to lots of Open Source people about their projects and
> porting to Avalon/Phoenix. In some cases they are keen on migration, in
> others keen on dual mode. In all cases they don't know where to start.
> Now HelloWorld is a simple example, but it's highly tied to the rest of
> Cornerstone.
>
> I'd like to, if all are in agreement, have an even leaner demo that is
> included in the phoenix project.
>
> It would :
>
> 1) only be included in Phoenix's source distribution
> 2) also be a separate self contained source distibution
> 3) have a build target in the parent build script that makes the child
> source distribution.
>
> Imagine a dir in phoenix called "newbie-sample" that contains:
>
> readme.txt
> build.bat
> build.sh
> build.xml (not phoenix's one)
> src/java/foo/Bar.java
> src/java/foo/Fred.java
> src/java/foo/Wilma.java
> src/javafoo/Bar.xinfo
> src/conf/sample-assembly.xml
> src/conf/sample-config.xml
> src/conf/sample-server.xml
> src/manifest/server.mf
>
> Imaging invoking "build sample" in Phoenix's main build script that
> makes a zip that includes the above plus:
>
> lib\cornerstone.bar
> lib\cornerstone-compilation.jar
> lib\logkit.jar
> lib\avalon-framework.jar
> lib\avalon-excalibur-20010919.jar
> lib\avalon-scratchpad-20010919.jar
> lib\phoenix-client-20010922.jar
>
> This would allow the zip (phoenix-app-for-newbies.zip) be unzipped and
> newbie to start work making a SAR compatible server application. Of
> course the build.xml file would contain the bare minimum of build
> targets as often people are new to Ant as well. The newbie would have
> to get Ant 1.4.1 and edit the build.bat file to set ANT_HOME if they
> have not installed Ant.
>
> Votes/Opinions please?
>
> - PH
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: avalon-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: avalon-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
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Re: [Vote] Getting started with a Phoenix app
Posted by avalon nair <vi...@yahoo.com>.
+1.
newbies in avalon/phoenix can really gain from this
and maybe leading from helloworld , we could have
helloworld2, helloworld3 ... samples to get more
closer to exposing more and more features of
avalon/phoenix.
I am truely a newbie as far as avalon goes &
for me right now , getting to know what these
sub-projects address are in itself a small task , and
if i can capture those grounds in bits and pieces , It
would be just perfect.
And then maybe i can ask more sensible
questions.(unlike this one ...:-))
Vinay.
--- Paul Hammant <Pa...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I'm speaking to lots of Open Source people about
> their projects and
> porting to Avalon/Phoenix. In some cases they are
> keen on migration, in
> others keen on dual mode. In all cases they don't
> know where to start.
> Now HelloWorld is a simple example, but it's highly
> tied to the rest of
> Cornerstone.
>
> I'd like to, if all are in agreement, have an even
> leaner demo that is
> included in the phoenix project.
>
> It would :
>
> 1) only be included in Phoenix's source distribution
> 2) also be a separate self contained source
> distibution
> 3) have a build target in the parent build script
> that makes the child
> source distribution.
>
> Imagine a dir in phoenix called "newbie-sample" that
> contains:
>
> readme.txt
> build.bat
> build.sh
> build.xml (not phoenix's one)
> src/java/foo/Bar.java
> src/java/foo/Fred.java
> src/java/foo/Wilma.java
> src/javafoo/Bar.xinfo
> src/conf/sample-assembly.xml
> src/conf/sample-config.xml
> src/conf/sample-server.xml
> src/manifest/server.mf
>
> Imaging invoking "build sample" in Phoenix's main
> build script that
> makes a zip that includes the above plus:
>
> lib\cornerstone.bar
> lib\cornerstone-compilation.jar
> lib\logkit.jar
> lib\avalon-framework.jar
> lib\avalon-excalibur-20010919.jar
> lib\avalon-scratchpad-20010919.jar
> lib\phoenix-client-20010922.jar
>
> This would allow the zip
> (phoenix-app-for-newbies.zip) be unzipped and
> newbie to start work making a SAR compatible server
> application. Of
> course the build.xml file would contain the bare
> minimum of build
> targets as often people are new to Ant as well. The
> newbie would have
> to get Ant 1.4.1 and edit the build.bat file to set
> ANT_HOME if they
> have not installed Ant.
>
> Votes/Opinions please?
>
> - PH
>
>
>
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Re: [Vote] Getting started with a Phoenix app
Posted by Jeff Turner <je...@socialchange.net.au>.
That would be really excellent :) Having never really gotten into Phoenix, I'd
be your first customer;)
I'd have thought 'lazy approval' applies here, but +0 anyway.
--Jeff
On Sun, Oct 21, 2001 at 12:18:03AM +0100, Paul Hammant wrote:
> I'm speaking to lots of Open Source people about their projects and
> porting to Avalon/Phoenix. In some cases they are keen on migration, in
> others keen on dual mode. In all cases they don't know where to start.
> Now HelloWorld is a simple example, but it's highly tied to the rest of
> Cornerstone.
>
> I'd like to, if all are in agreement, have an even leaner demo that is
> included in the phoenix project.
>
> It would :
>
> 1) only be included in Phoenix's source distribution
> 2) also be a separate self contained source distibution
> 3) have a build target in the parent build script that makes the child
> source distribution.
>
> Imagine a dir in phoenix called "newbie-sample" that contains:
>
> readme.txt
> build.bat
> build.sh
> build.xml (not phoenix's one)
> src/java/foo/Bar.java
> src/java/foo/Fred.java
> src/java/foo/Wilma.java
> src/javafoo/Bar.xinfo
> src/conf/sample-assembly.xml
> src/conf/sample-config.xml
> src/conf/sample-server.xml
> src/manifest/server.mf
>
> Imaging invoking "build sample" in Phoenix's main build script that
> makes a zip that includes the above plus:
>
> lib\cornerstone.bar
> lib\cornerstone-compilation.jar
> lib\logkit.jar
> lib\avalon-framework.jar
> lib\avalon-excalibur-20010919.jar
> lib\avalon-scratchpad-20010919.jar
> lib\phoenix-client-20010922.jar
>
> This would allow the zip (phoenix-app-for-newbies.zip) be unzipped and
> newbie to start work making a SAR compatible server application. Of
> course the build.xml file would contain the bare minimum of build
> targets as often people are new to Ant as well. The newbie would have
> to get Ant 1.4.1 and edit the build.bat file to set ANT_HOME if they
> have not installed Ant.
>
> Votes/Opinions please?
>
> - PH
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