[DISCUSS] Jira isssue type: "Support"

[Kenneth Knowles <ke...@apache.org>]

Hi all,

I've been doing a lot of looking through untriaged bugs. There is a pattern
of many issues that are essentially user questions. It is often ambiguous
if the problem is their pipeline (often) or an issue with a core component
(possible).

Has anyone else seen this pattern or is it just me? Would it be useful to
have a new issue type for "Support" or "User Issue"? It may send the wrong
message. We can keep them as "Bug" because until we figure it out we should
assume there might be a bug. I expect as we scale up this will be more and
more of Jira.

What do you think? I think I have looked at too many issues in a row and I
need an outside opinion.

I'm also curious what other ASF/OSS projects do.

Kenn

Re: [DISCUSS] Jira isssue type: "Support"

[Alexey Romanenko <ar...@gmail.com>]

I think that now I see your point better  In this case, if we are 100% sure that it’s not a bug and it can be solved or workarounded by a proper configuration or in other way, I suggest to close such Jiras with a “Not a bug” resolution and add a comment where ask user to post this as a question on user@ or write there a known solution/workaround for that (or a link to user@/SO similar question).

If we are not sure that it’s not bug, let’s label it with, for example, "user-issue” label until it will be triaged finally by someone who knows this component better.

I’m not sure that any automation will work for this, it will just bring more duplicated/not informative emails to user@.

Alexey

> On 5 Apr 2021, at 18:12, Kenneth Knowles <ke...@apache.org> wrote:
> 
> I agree "User Issue" is a better name and that we should not provide support through Jira. I should have raised the problem first as a question: Today we have lots of support cases filed as "Bug" and then support on the Jira proceeds very much like a StackOverflow question. It doesn't really make sense to put these in the bug backlog either. What can we or should we do about this? ("nothing" is an OK answer - I should mention that I started this thread because it was fresh in my mind, not because it was urgent).
> 
> IMO StackOverflow and user@ are much better, because of being discoverable for others, plus users support each other in those places.
> 
> So, goals I propose:
> 
>  - reduce user support conversations that occur on Jira
>  - have a good way to triage and identify such tickets ("correct priority, correct component, correct issue type, ping someone")
> 
> Options for distinguishing Jira issues:
> 
>  - a label (like "user-issue")
>  - a component (like we have "test-failures")
>  - an issue type ("User Issue")
> 
> Options for what do do with these issues might be:
> 
>  - automate comment on the issue to ask on user@
>  - send new issues to user@ as they occur
>  - send a digest of new issues to user@ at some schedule
> 
> I don't have a strong opinion about these options. I kind of like the idea of being able to manually categorize things to user issue and then have automation do a comment.
> 
> Kenn
> 
> On Thu, Apr 1, 2021 at 11:05 AM Robert Bradshaw <robertwb@google.com <ma...@google.com>> wrote:
> I agree with the idea of adding a label to this, which can be attached to real bugs, etc. that are in specific components. I don't think it makes sense to try to offer user support though jira though--if it's a bug let's rephrase the question as such, otherwise we could post the question (and possible answer) to the users list (and close the jira linking to that). 
> 
> On Thu, Apr 1, 2021 at 10:31 AM Ahmet Altay <altay@google.com <ma...@google.com>> wrote:
> +1 on using a label instead. I think the naming will matter. "Support" might send a wrong message, but "User Issue" sounds more neutral and would necessarily set an expectation to receive support. (I have no data to "support" this :), it is a guess.)
> 
> Would it be possible to somehow link user@ list with this curated set of user issues. Users helping users would probably be a win for everyone involved.
> 
> Ahmet
> 
> On Thu, Apr 1, 2021 at 10:12 AM Alexey Romanenko <aromanenko.dev@gmail.com <ma...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> I noticed the similar pattern too. I like the idea to have a new issue type but in which way it would help? Won’t be enough to just add a special label for such Jiras?
> 
> Alexey
> 
> > On 1 Apr 2021, at 01:27, Kenneth Knowles <kenn@apache.org <ma...@apache.org>> wrote:
> > 
> > Hi all,
> > 
> > I've been doing a lot of looking through untriaged bugs. There is a pattern of many issues that are essentially user questions. It is often ambiguous if the problem is their pipeline (often) or an issue with a core component (possible).
> > 
> > Has anyone else seen this pattern or is it just me? Would it be useful to have a new issue type for "Support" or "User Issue"? It may send the wrong message. We can keep them as "Bug" because until we figure it out we should assume there might be a bug. I expect as we scale up this will be more and more of Jira.
> > 
> > What do you think? I think I have looked at too many issues in a row and I need an outside opinion.
> > 
> > I'm also curious what other ASF/OSS projects do.
> > 
> > Kenn
> 

Re: [DISCUSS] Jira isssue type: "Support"

[Kenneth Knowles <ke...@apache.org>]

I agree "User Issue" is a better name and that we should not provide
support through Jira. I should have raised the problem first as a question:
Today we have lots of support cases filed as "Bug" and then support on the
Jira proceeds very much like a StackOverflow question. It doesn't really
make sense to put these in the bug backlog either. What can we or should we
do about this? ("nothing" is an OK answer - I should mention that I started
this thread because it was fresh in my mind, not because it was urgent).

IMO StackOverflow and user@ are much better, because of being discoverable
for others, plus users support each other in those places.

So, goals I propose:

 - reduce user support conversations that occur on Jira
 - have a good way to triage and identify such tickets ("correct priority,
correct component, correct issue type, ping someone")

Options for distinguishing Jira issues:

 - a label (like "user-issue")
 - a component (like we have "test-failures")
 - an issue type ("User Issue")

Options for what do do with these issues might be:

 - automate comment on the issue to ask on user@
 - send new issues to user@ as they occur
 - send a digest of new issues to user@ at some schedule

I don't have a strong opinion about these options. I kind of like the idea
of being able to manually categorize things to user issue and then have
automation do a comment.

Kenn

On Thu, Apr 1, 2021 at 11:05 AM Robert Bradshaw <ro...@google.com> wrote:

> I agree with the idea of adding a label to this, which can be attached to
> real bugs, etc. that are in specific components. I don't think it makes
> sense to try to offer user support though jira though--if it's a bug let's
> rephrase the question as such, otherwise we could post the question (and
> possible answer) to the users list (and close the jira linking to that).
>
> On Thu, Apr 1, 2021 at 10:31 AM Ahmet Altay <al...@google.com> wrote:
>
>> +1 on using a label instead. I think the naming will matter. "Support"
>> might send a wrong message, but "User Issue" sounds more neutral and would
>> necessarily set an expectation to receive support. (I have no data to
>> "support" this :), it is a guess.)
>>
>> Would it be possible to somehow link user@ list with this curated set of
>> user issues. Users helping users would probably be a win for everyone
>> involved.
>>
>> Ahmet
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 1, 2021 at 10:12 AM Alexey Romanenko <
>> aromanenko.dev@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I noticed the similar pattern too. I like the idea to have a new issue
>>> type but in which way it would help? Won’t be enough to just add a special
>>> label for such Jiras?
>>>
>>> Alexey
>>>
>>> > On 1 Apr 2021, at 01:27, Kenneth Knowles <ke...@apache.org> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > Hi all,
>>> >
>>> > I've been doing a lot of looking through untriaged bugs. There is a
>>> pattern of many issues that are essentially user questions. It is often
>>> ambiguous if the problem is their pipeline (often) or an issue with a core
>>> component (possible).
>>> >
>>> > Has anyone else seen this pattern or is it just me? Would it be useful
>>> to have a new issue type for "Support" or "User Issue"? It may send the
>>> wrong message. We can keep them as "Bug" because until we figure it out we
>>> should assume there might be a bug. I expect as we scale up this will be
>>> more and more of Jira.
>>> >
>>> > What do you think? I think I have looked at too many issues in a row
>>> and I need an outside opinion.
>>> >
>>> > I'm also curious what other ASF/OSS projects do.
>>> >
>>> > Kenn
>>>
>>>

Re: [DISCUSS] Jira isssue type: "Support"

[Robert Bradshaw <ro...@google.com>]

I agree with the idea of adding a label to this, which can be attached to
real bugs, etc. that are in specific components. I don't think it makes
sense to try to offer user support though jira though--if it's a bug let's
rephrase the question as such, otherwise we could post the question (and
possible answer) to the users list (and close the jira linking to that).

On Thu, Apr 1, 2021 at 10:31 AM Ahmet Altay <al...@google.com> wrote:

> +1 on using a label instead. I think the naming will matter. "Support"
> might send a wrong message, but "User Issue" sounds more neutral and would
> necessarily set an expectation to receive support. (I have no data to
> "support" this :), it is a guess.)
>
> Would it be possible to somehow link user@ list with this curated set of
> user issues. Users helping users would probably be a win for everyone
> involved.
>
> Ahmet
>
> On Thu, Apr 1, 2021 at 10:12 AM Alexey Romanenko <ar...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> I noticed the similar pattern too. I like the idea to have a new issue
>> type but in which way it would help? Won’t be enough to just add a special
>> label for such Jiras?
>>
>> Alexey
>>
>> > On 1 Apr 2021, at 01:27, Kenneth Knowles <ke...@apache.org> wrote:
>> >
>> > Hi all,
>> >
>> > I've been doing a lot of looking through untriaged bugs. There is a
>> pattern of many issues that are essentially user questions. It is often
>> ambiguous if the problem is their pipeline (often) or an issue with a core
>> component (possible).
>> >
>> > Has anyone else seen this pattern or is it just me? Would it be useful
>> to have a new issue type for "Support" or "User Issue"? It may send the
>> wrong message. We can keep them as "Bug" because until we figure it out we
>> should assume there might be a bug. I expect as we scale up this will be
>> more and more of Jira.
>> >
>> > What do you think? I think I have looked at too many issues in a row
>> and I need an outside opinion.
>> >
>> > I'm also curious what other ASF/OSS projects do.
>> >
>> > Kenn
>>
>>

Re: [DISCUSS] Jira isssue type: "Support"

[Ahmet Altay <al...@google.com>]

+1 on using a label instead. I think the naming will matter. "Support"
might send a wrong message, but "User Issue" sounds more neutral and would
necessarily set an expectation to receive support. (I have no data to
"support" this :), it is a guess.)

Would it be possible to somehow link user@ list with this curated set of
user issues. Users helping users would probably be a win for everyone
involved.

Ahmet

On Thu, Apr 1, 2021 at 10:12 AM Alexey Romanenko <ar...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> I noticed the similar pattern too. I like the idea to have a new issue
> type but in which way it would help? Won’t be enough to just add a special
> label for such Jiras?
>
> Alexey
>
> > On 1 Apr 2021, at 01:27, Kenneth Knowles <ke...@apache.org> wrote:
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I've been doing a lot of looking through untriaged bugs. There is a
> pattern of many issues that are essentially user questions. It is often
> ambiguous if the problem is their pipeline (often) or an issue with a core
> component (possible).
> >
> > Has anyone else seen this pattern or is it just me? Would it be useful
> to have a new issue type for "Support" or "User Issue"? It may send the
> wrong message. We can keep them as "Bug" because until we figure it out we
> should assume there might be a bug. I expect as we scale up this will be
> more and more of Jira.
> >
> > What do you think? I think I have looked at too many issues in a row and
> I need an outside opinion.
> >
> > I'm also curious what other ASF/OSS projects do.
> >
> > Kenn
>
>

Re: [DISCUSS] Jira isssue type: "Support"

[Alexey Romanenko <ar...@gmail.com>]

I noticed the similar pattern too. I like the idea to have a new issue type but in which way it would help? Won’t be enough to just add a special label for such Jiras?

Alexey

> On 1 Apr 2021, at 01:27, Kenneth Knowles <ke...@apache.org> wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> I've been doing a lot of looking through untriaged bugs. There is a pattern of many issues that are essentially user questions. It is often ambiguous if the problem is their pipeline (often) or an issue with a core component (possible).
> 
> Has anyone else seen this pattern or is it just me? Would it be useful to have a new issue type for "Support" or "User Issue"? It may send the wrong message. We can keep them as "Bug" because until we figure it out we should assume there might be a bug. I expect as we scale up this will be more and more of Jira.
> 
> What do you think? I think I have looked at too many issues in a row and I need an outside opinion.
> 
> I'm also curious what other ASF/OSS projects do.
> 
> Kenn