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Posted to user@cayenne.apache.org by John Huss <jo...@gmail.com> on 2012/12/22 00:21:49 UTC
Re: basic tutorial
This message should be on the user mailing list, not the dev list, so
please reply there.
Cayenne is not primarily intended to be used that way, so there is no
tutorial. It is possible to do, but there's not really a good reason to
for a beginner. Using the modeler prevents from having to know the whole
XML api - instead the screens may it fairly easily to figure out what you
need to do.
Anyway if you want to hand-code the XML you can create a mapping using the
modeler (or find an example) and then see how the XML looks, then follow
the same pattern. There is also a DTD somewhere I believe. But you should
really use the modeler, at least until you get a hang of the basics. Even
if you decide to skip the modeler later, start with it first.
On Fri, Dec 21, 2012 at 5:02 PM, Michael Jaruska
<mi...@gmail.com>wrote:
> hi folks,
>
> i'm searching for tutorial for using cayene without caynene modeler, i need
> something like "download this jar, write this bean, edit this xml in this
> way
> and this is how you can access objects from database".
>
> i'm not fun of grafical/ide tools (writing this hope this won't lead into
> spam), just like hand-make work.
>
> is there tutorial with this aspect keeping in mind?
>
> please be patient to my beginer question.
>
> michael
>
Re: basic tutorial
Posted by Michael Jaruska <mi...@gmail.com>.
and a lot of other software too :-)
On 22.12.2012 20:35, Pascal Robert wrote:
> So you should avoid using Alfresco :-)
>
>> In fact I would argue that any system that requires you to edit xml by hand
>> is fundamentally broken (I"m looking at you JPA). XML is meant for machines
>> not humans, and if you develop an xml dialect to represent something you've
>> only started your work. Never make your users edit XML. Never.
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Dec 21, 2012 at 6:21 PM, John Huss <jo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> This message should be on the user mailing list, not the dev list, so
>>> please reply there.
>>>
>>> Cayenne is not primarily intended to be used that way, so there is no
>>> tutorial. It is possible to do, but there's not really a good reason to
>>> for a beginner. Using the modeler prevents from having to know the whole
>>> XML api - instead the screens may it fairly easily to figure out what you
>>> need to do.
>>>
>>> Anyway if you want to hand-code the XML you can create a mapping using the
>>> modeler (or find an example) and then see how the XML looks, then follow
>>> the same pattern. There is also a DTD somewhere I believe. But you should
>>> really use the modeler, at least until you get a hang of the basics. Even
>>> if you decide to skip the modeler later, start with it first.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Dec 21, 2012 at 5:02 PM, Michael Jaruska
>>> <mi...@gmail.com>wrote:
>>>
>>>> hi folks,
>>>>
>>>> i'm searching for tutorial for using cayene without caynene modeler, i
>>> need
>>>> something like "download this jar, write this bean, edit this xml in this
>>>> way
>>>> and this is how you can access objects from database".
>>>>
>>>> i'm not fun of grafical/ide tools (writing this hope this won't lead into
>>>> spam), just like hand-make work.
>>>>
>>>> is there tutorial with this aspect keeping in mind?
>>>>
>>>> please be patient to my beginer question.
>>>>
>>>> michael
>>>>
>>>
>
Re: basic tutorial
Posted by Pascal Robert <pr...@macti.ca>.
So you should avoid using Alfresco :-)
> In fact I would argue that any system that requires you to edit xml by hand
> is fundamentally broken (I"m looking at you JPA). XML is meant for machines
> not humans, and if you develop an xml dialect to represent something you've
> only started your work. Never make your users edit XML. Never.
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 21, 2012 at 6:21 PM, John Huss <jo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> This message should be on the user mailing list, not the dev list, so
>> please reply there.
>>
>> Cayenne is not primarily intended to be used that way, so there is no
>> tutorial. It is possible to do, but there's not really a good reason to
>> for a beginner. Using the modeler prevents from having to know the whole
>> XML api - instead the screens may it fairly easily to figure out what you
>> need to do.
>>
>> Anyway if you want to hand-code the XML you can create a mapping using the
>> modeler (or find an example) and then see how the XML looks, then follow
>> the same pattern. There is also a DTD somewhere I believe. But you should
>> really use the modeler, at least until you get a hang of the basics. Even
>> if you decide to skip the modeler later, start with it first.
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Dec 21, 2012 at 5:02 PM, Michael Jaruska
>> <mi...@gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>> hi folks,
>>>
>>> i'm searching for tutorial for using cayene without caynene modeler, i
>> need
>>> something like "download this jar, write this bean, edit this xml in this
>>> way
>>> and this is how you can access objects from database".
>>>
>>> i'm not fun of grafical/ide tools (writing this hope this won't lead into
>>> spam), just like hand-make work.
>>>
>>> is there tutorial with this aspect keeping in mind?
>>>
>>> please be patient to my beginer question.
>>>
>>> michael
>>>
>>
Re: basic tutorial
Posted by Michael Jaruska <mi...@gmail.com>.
maybe, writing docu is my nightmare :-)
On 23.12.2012 1:24, Mike Kienenberger wrote:
> There's nothing wrong with editing the models by hand. I sometimes
> make small changes by hand myself.
>
> But the best way to learn the xml format right now is going to be to
> set up an initial model using the modeler tool. There's no
> user-friendly documentation on the format of the model right now.
>
> Maybe you could write some up as you go along.
>
>
> On Sat, Dec 22, 2012 at 6:31 PM, Michael Jaruska
> <mi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> hmm, i was in hope not to make spam but instead of (short) point to some
>> notes
>> about using cayenne without modeler but just hand-editing xml files there
>> was rubbish
>> about xml and editing them by hand. i'm editing xml by hand for more than 10
>> years
>> without problems and there's more efective formats for machines than xml.
>>
>> btw: in cayenne i'm beginner, hibernate, ibatis etc i'm using for years and
>> yes, i (and in fact all my colleagues) am editing xml's by hand.
>>
>> from this point of view, programmers of modeler are programming in wrong
>> way...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 22.12.2012 15:55, Tony Giaccone wrote:
>>>
>>> In fact I would argue that any system that requires you to edit xml by
>>> hand
>>> is fundamentally broken (I"m looking at you JPA). XML is meant for
>>> machines
>>> not humans, and if you develop an xml dialect to represent something
>>> you've
>>> only started your work. Never make your users edit XML. Never.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Dec 21, 2012 at 6:21 PM, John Huss <jo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> This message should be on the user mailing list, not the dev list, so
>>>> please reply there.
>>>>
>>>> Cayenne is not primarily intended to be used that way, so there is no
>>>> tutorial. It is possible to do, but there's not really a good reason to
>>>> for a beginner. Using the modeler prevents from having to know the whole
>>>> XML api - instead the screens may it fairly easily to figure out what you
>>>> need to do.
>>>>
>>>> Anyway if you want to hand-code the XML you can create a mapping using
>>>> the
>>>> modeler (or find an example) and then see how the XML looks, then follow
>>>> the same pattern. There is also a DTD somewhere I believe. But you
>>>> should
>>>> really use the modeler, at least until you get a hang of the basics.
>>>> Even
>>>> if you decide to skip the modeler later, start with it first.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Dec 21, 2012 at 5:02 PM, Michael Jaruska
>>>> <mi...@gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> hi folks,
>>>>>
>>>>> i'm searching for tutorial for using cayene without caynene modeler, i
>>>>
>>>> need
>>>>>
>>>>> something like "download this jar, write this bean, edit this xml in
>>>>> this
>>>>> way
>>>>> and this is how you can access objects from database".
>>>>>
>>>>> i'm not fun of grafical/ide tools (writing this hope this won't lead
>>>>> into
>>>>> spam), just like hand-make work.
>>>>>
>>>>> is there tutorial with this aspect keeping in mind?
>>>>>
>>>>> please be patient to my beginer question.
>>>>>
>>>>> michael
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
Re: basic tutorial
Posted by Mike Kienenberger <mk...@gmail.com>.
There's nothing wrong with editing the models by hand. I sometimes
make small changes by hand myself.
But the best way to learn the xml format right now is going to be to
set up an initial model using the modeler tool. There's no
user-friendly documentation on the format of the model right now.
Maybe you could write some up as you go along.
On Sat, Dec 22, 2012 at 6:31 PM, Michael Jaruska
<mi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> hmm, i was in hope not to make spam but instead of (short) point to some
> notes
> about using cayenne without modeler but just hand-editing xml files there
> was rubbish
> about xml and editing them by hand. i'm editing xml by hand for more than 10
> years
> without problems and there's more efective formats for machines than xml.
>
> btw: in cayenne i'm beginner, hibernate, ibatis etc i'm using for years and
> yes, i (and in fact all my colleagues) am editing xml's by hand.
>
> from this point of view, programmers of modeler are programming in wrong
> way...
>
>
>
>
> On 22.12.2012 15:55, Tony Giaccone wrote:
>>
>> In fact I would argue that any system that requires you to edit xml by
>> hand
>> is fundamentally broken (I"m looking at you JPA). XML is meant for
>> machines
>> not humans, and if you develop an xml dialect to represent something
>> you've
>> only started your work. Never make your users edit XML. Never.
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Dec 21, 2012 at 6:21 PM, John Huss <jo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> This message should be on the user mailing list, not the dev list, so
>>> please reply there.
>>>
>>> Cayenne is not primarily intended to be used that way, so there is no
>>> tutorial. It is possible to do, but there's not really a good reason to
>>> for a beginner. Using the modeler prevents from having to know the whole
>>> XML api - instead the screens may it fairly easily to figure out what you
>>> need to do.
>>>
>>> Anyway if you want to hand-code the XML you can create a mapping using
>>> the
>>> modeler (or find an example) and then see how the XML looks, then follow
>>> the same pattern. There is also a DTD somewhere I believe. But you
>>> should
>>> really use the modeler, at least until you get a hang of the basics.
>>> Even
>>> if you decide to skip the modeler later, start with it first.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Dec 21, 2012 at 5:02 PM, Michael Jaruska
>>> <mi...@gmail.com>wrote:
>>>
>>>> hi folks,
>>>>
>>>> i'm searching for tutorial for using cayene without caynene modeler, i
>>>
>>> need
>>>>
>>>> something like "download this jar, write this bean, edit this xml in
>>>> this
>>>> way
>>>> and this is how you can access objects from database".
>>>>
>>>> i'm not fun of grafical/ide tools (writing this hope this won't lead
>>>> into
>>>> spam), just like hand-make work.
>>>>
>>>> is there tutorial with this aspect keeping in mind?
>>>>
>>>> please be patient to my beginer question.
>>>>
>>>> michael
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
Re: basic tutorial
Posted by Joseph Senecal <se...@apple.com>.
Actually I have well over 100 tables in the model I use with EOF (similar to Cayenne). Most of these tables join to other tables in a complex graph of connections. As with Cayenne I've never had to worry about SQL or editing the configuration by hand. It just works with no effort on my part. It has been a huge time saver, allowing a small team to work wonders of complex coding. We can concentrate on the logic of what we want to do and spend time on getting the data into and out of the database.
Joe
On Dec 23, 2012, at 3:00 PM, Michael Jaruska <mi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> i now it but i think there is one big misunderstanding: orm's hasn't been created for
> to make life better but for better abstraction.
>
> think: try to code db with 100 tables into your code with pure sql and jdbc and try the
> same with orm. yes, you can lead in orm annotation hell but you do it just one time and
> than it just works. with jdbc there should be continuous hell throught all coding.
>
> orm is good for abstraction, this way it do life better.
>
>
>
> On 23.12.2012 17:23, Richard Frovarp wrote:
>> On 12/22/2012 05:31 PM, Michael Jaruska wrote:
>>> hmm, i was in hope not to make spam but instead of (short) point to some notes
>>> about using cayenne without modeler but just hand-editing xml files there was rubbish
>>> about xml and editing them by hand. i'm editing xml by hand for more than 10 years
>>> without problems and there's more efective formats for machines than xml.
>>>
>>> btw: in cayenne i'm beginner, hibernate, ibatis etc i'm using for years and
>>> yes, i (and in fact all my colleagues) am editing xml's by hand.
>>>
>>> from this point of view, programmers of modeler are programming in wrong way...
>>>
>>
>> I used to edit SQL by hand for years. I've even hand created mapping from SQL results into objects. I'm sure we all have. The whole point of ORMs is to make
>> life easier. I believe the Cayenne community takes a different approach to all of this than many other systems. I haven't seen this explicitly state, but this
>> is the general feeling I get.
>>
>> There's a famous talk about how ORMs suck. One of my sys admins sent it to me a couple of years ago, but I can't find it now. In it, the speakers goes off on a
>> rant about how ORMs were supposed to make life better, easier for the developer. Then he shows some annotation hell from Hibernate, and asks at what point did
>> we decide that those annotations were better than straight SQL?
>>
>> With Cayenne we get to skip the SQL, we get to skip writing code (as it is generated), and we get to skip the horrible annotations (it doesn't use them). That
>> leaves us with the XML document to generate the code, to do our SQL. Honestly, I think I would rather do straight SQL than have to generate the XML. That's what
>> you have to do in Torque. On of the things that makes Cayenne stand apart is that modeler. The modeler is accurate and quick. I can get in, do what I need to
>> do, and get on with more interesting parts of my code.
>>
>> In this way the developers of the modeler has done exactly what I want, something quick, simple, and less error prone than doing SQL, annotations, or XML directly.
>>
>> Like others have said, if you want to do it by hand, use the modeler as a tutorial. You can quickly figure out what it is doing by diffing your changes as you
>> go. There are times when editing by hand is advantageous, with the modeler providing validation. Other developers can pick up your changes in commit messages
>> fairly well.
Re: basic tutorial
Posted by Michael Jaruska <mi...@gmail.com>.
i now it but i think there is one big misunderstanding: orm's hasn't been created for
to make life better but for better abstraction.
think: try to code db with 100 tables into your code with pure sql and jdbc and try the
same with orm. yes, you can lead in orm annotation hell but you do it just one time and
than it just works. with jdbc there should be continuous hell throught all coding.
orm is good for abstraction, this way it do life better.
On 23.12.2012 17:23, Richard Frovarp wrote:
> On 12/22/2012 05:31 PM, Michael Jaruska wrote:
>> hmm, i was in hope not to make spam but instead of (short) point to some notes
>> about using cayenne without modeler but just hand-editing xml files there was rubbish
>> about xml and editing them by hand. i'm editing xml by hand for more than 10 years
>> without problems and there's more efective formats for machines than xml.
>>
>> btw: in cayenne i'm beginner, hibernate, ibatis etc i'm using for years and
>> yes, i (and in fact all my colleagues) am editing xml's by hand.
>>
>> from this point of view, programmers of modeler are programming in wrong way...
>>
>
> I used to edit SQL by hand for years. I've even hand created mapping from SQL results into objects. I'm sure we all have. The whole point of ORMs is to make
> life easier. I believe the Cayenne community takes a different approach to all of this than many other systems. I haven't seen this explicitly state, but this
> is the general feeling I get.
>
> There's a famous talk about how ORMs suck. One of my sys admins sent it to me a couple of years ago, but I can't find it now. In it, the speakers goes off on a
> rant about how ORMs were supposed to make life better, easier for the developer. Then he shows some annotation hell from Hibernate, and asks at what point did
> we decide that those annotations were better than straight SQL?
>
> With Cayenne we get to skip the SQL, we get to skip writing code (as it is generated), and we get to skip the horrible annotations (it doesn't use them). That
> leaves us with the XML document to generate the code, to do our SQL. Honestly, I think I would rather do straight SQL than have to generate the XML. That's what
> you have to do in Torque. On of the things that makes Cayenne stand apart is that modeler. The modeler is accurate and quick. I can get in, do what I need to
> do, and get on with more interesting parts of my code.
>
> In this way the developers of the modeler has done exactly what I want, something quick, simple, and less error prone than doing SQL, annotations, or XML directly.
>
> Like others have said, if you want to do it by hand, use the modeler as a tutorial. You can quickly figure out what it is doing by diffing your changes as you
> go. There are times when editing by hand is advantageous, with the modeler providing validation. Other developers can pick up your changes in commit messages
> fairly well.
Re: basic tutorial
Posted by Richard Frovarp <rf...@apache.org>.
On 12/22/2012 05:31 PM, Michael Jaruska wrote:
> hmm, i was in hope not to make spam but instead of (short) point to
> some notes
> about using cayenne without modeler but just hand-editing xml files
> there was rubbish
> about xml and editing them by hand. i'm editing xml by hand for more
> than 10 years
> without problems and there's more efective formats for machines than xml.
>
> btw: in cayenne i'm beginner, hibernate, ibatis etc i'm using for
> years and
> yes, i (and in fact all my colleagues) am editing xml's by hand.
>
> from this point of view, programmers of modeler are programming in
> wrong way...
>
I used to edit SQL by hand for years. I've even hand created mapping
from SQL results into objects. I'm sure we all have. The whole point of
ORMs is to make life easier. I believe the Cayenne community takes a
different approach to all of this than many other systems. I haven't
seen this explicitly state, but this is the general feeling I get.
There's a famous talk about how ORMs suck. One of my sys admins sent it
to me a couple of years ago, but I can't find it now. In it, the
speakers goes off on a rant about how ORMs were supposed to make life
better, easier for the developer. Then he shows some annotation hell
from Hibernate, and asks at what point did we decide that those
annotations were better than straight SQL?
With Cayenne we get to skip the SQL, we get to skip writing code (as it
is generated), and we get to skip the horrible annotations (it doesn't
use them). That leaves us with the XML document to generate the code, to
do our SQL. Honestly, I think I would rather do straight SQL than have
to generate the XML. That's what you have to do in Torque. On of the
things that makes Cayenne stand apart is that modeler. The modeler is
accurate and quick. I can get in, do what I need to do, and get on with
more interesting parts of my code.
In this way the developers of the modeler has done exactly what I want,
something quick, simple, and less error prone than doing SQL,
annotations, or XML directly.
Like others have said, if you want to do it by hand, use the modeler as
a tutorial. You can quickly figure out what it is doing by diffing your
changes as you go. There are times when editing by hand is advantageous,
with the modeler providing validation. Other developers can pick up your
changes in commit messages fairly well.
Re: basic tutorial
Posted by Michael Jaruska <mi...@gmail.com>.
everytime i edit everythink by hand - i'm working in time-critical business sector and
if i have wake-up call at two a.m. that somethink goes wrong in night-job there isn't time
to study what happen in "mega-giga-super-zoo" grafical tool that somethink has been
broken. i have to study logs and in small amount of time there is need to correct bug and
run job again. no problem with pure files (doesn't matter if .xml, .csv,...).
maybe to make opinion - my second main business language is assembler.
ok, i'm not so "productive" as if i used graphical tools but this disadvantage is balanced
in production that in 99% of errors i can in minutes debug error and correct it. has been
many times waked-up in night that "gui boys" can't find bug...
ok, i'm old-fashioned.
yes, looks like cayene is in some aspects better than hibernate.
On 23.12.2012 1:47, emeka okafor wrote:
>
>
> About 4 or 5 years ago, when j2ee and spring were all the rage, I thought I was a ninja because I would spend hours editing spring/beans/hibernate configurations by hand, and even xslt...until I found a job where I did learn WebObjects/EOF and it changed my brain forever. It s a shame that there are not many jobs related to that technology and so one still has to do the jee stuff.
> What I am trying to say is that, you did not even give the modeler a try. I would be surprised if you would xml editing go back to xml after you have learnt how to use it.
> You will have a lot of fun with cayenne.
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Michael Jaruska <mi...@gmail.com>
> To: user@cayenne.apache.org
> Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2012 12:31 AM
> Subject: Re: basic tutorial
>
> hmm, i was in hope not to make spam but instead of (short) point to some notes
> about using cayenne without modeler but just hand-editing xml files there was rubbish
> about xml and editing them by hand. i'm editing xml by hand for more than 10 years
> without problems and there's more efective formats for machines than xml.
>
> btw: in cayenne i'm beginner, hibernate, ibatis etc i'm using for years and
> yes, i (and in fact all my colleagues) am editing xml's by hand.
>
> from this point of view, programmers of modeler are programming in wrong way...
>
>
>
> On 22.12.2012 15:55, Tony Giaccone wrote:
>> In fact I would argue that any system that requires you to edit xml by hand
>> is fundamentally broken (I"m looking at you JPA). XML is meant for machines
>> not humans, and if you develop an xml dialect to represent something you've
>> only started your work. Never make your users edit XML. Never.
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Dec 21, 2012 at 6:21 PM, John Huss <jo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> This message should be on the user mailing list, not the dev list, so
>>> please reply there.
>>>
>>> Cayenne is not primarily intended to be used that way, so there is no
>>> tutorial. It is possible to do, but there's not really a good reason to
>>> for a beginner. Using the modeler prevents from having to know the whole
>>> XML api - instead the screens may it fairly easily to figure out what you
>>> need to do.
>>>
>>> Anyway if you want to hand-code the XML you can create a mapping using the
>>> modeler (or find an example) and then see how the XML looks, then follow
>>> the same pattern. There is also a DTD somewhere I believe. But you should
>>> really use the modeler, at least until you get a hang of the basics. Even
>>> if you decide to skip the modeler later, start with it first.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Dec 21, 2012 at 5:02 PM, Michael Jaruska
>>> <mi...@gmail.com>wrote:
>>>
>>>> hi folks,
>>>>
>>>> i'm searching for tutorial for using cayene without caynene modeler, i
>>> need
>>>> something like "download this jar, write this bean, edit this xml in this
>>>> way
>>>> and this is how you can access objects from database".
>>>>
>>>> i'm not fun of grafical/ide tools (writing this hope this won't lead into
>>>> spam), just like hand-make work.
>>>>
>>>> is there tutorial with this aspect keeping in mind?
>>>>
>>>> please be patient to my beginer question.
>>>>
>>>> michael
>>>>
>>>
>>
Re: basic tutorial
Posted by emeka okafor <em...@yahoo.com>.
About 4 or 5 years ago, when j2ee and spring were all the rage, I thought I was a ninja because I would spend hours editing spring/beans/hibernate configurations by hand, and even xslt...until I found a job where I did learn WebObjects/EOF and it changed my brain forever. It s a shame that there are not many jobs related to that technology and so one still has to do the jee stuff.
What I am trying to say is that, you did not even give the modeler a try. I would be surprised if you would xml editing go back to xml after you have learnt how to use it.
You will have a lot of fun with cayenne.
________________________________
From: Michael Jaruska <mi...@gmail.com>
To: user@cayenne.apache.org
Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2012 12:31 AM
Subject: Re: basic tutorial
hmm, i was in hope not to make spam but instead of (short) point to some notes
about using cayenne without modeler but just hand-editing xml files there was rubbish
about xml and editing them by hand. i'm editing xml by hand for more than 10 years
without problems and there's more efective formats for machines than xml.
btw: in cayenne i'm beginner, hibernate, ibatis etc i'm using for years and
yes, i (and in fact all my colleagues) am editing xml's by hand.
from this point of view, programmers of modeler are programming in wrong way...
On 22.12.2012 15:55, Tony Giaccone wrote:
> In fact I would argue that any system that requires you to edit xml by hand
> is fundamentally broken (I"m looking at you JPA). XML is meant for machines
> not humans, and if you develop an xml dialect to represent something you've
> only started your work. Never make your users edit XML. Never.
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 21, 2012 at 6:21 PM, John Huss <jo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> This message should be on the user mailing list, not the dev list, so
>> please reply there.
>>
>> Cayenne is not primarily intended to be used that way, so there is no
>> tutorial. It is possible to do, but there's not really a good reason to
>> for a beginner. Using the modeler prevents from having to know the whole
>> XML api - instead the screens may it fairly easily to figure out what you
>> need to do.
>>
>> Anyway if you want to hand-code the XML you can create a mapping using the
>> modeler (or find an example) and then see how the XML looks, then follow
>> the same pattern. There is also a DTD somewhere I believe. But you should
>> really use the modeler, at least until you get a hang of the basics. Even
>> if you decide to skip the modeler later, start with it first.
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Dec 21, 2012 at 5:02 PM, Michael Jaruska
>> <mi...@gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>> hi folks,
>>>
>>> i'm searching for tutorial for using cayene without caynene modeler, i
>> need
>>> something like "download this jar, write this bean, edit this xml in this
>>> way
>>> and this is how you can access objects from database".
>>>
>>> i'm not fun of grafical/ide tools (writing this hope this won't lead into
>>> spam), just like hand-make work.
>>>
>>> is there tutorial with this aspect keeping in mind?
>>>
>>> please be patient to my beginer question.
>>>
>>> michael
>>>
>>
>
Re: basic tutorial
Posted by Michael Jaruska <mi...@gmail.com>.
hmm, i was in hope not to make spam but instead of (short) point to some notes
about using cayenne without modeler but just hand-editing xml files there was rubbish
about xml and editing them by hand. i'm editing xml by hand for more than 10 years
without problems and there's more efective formats for machines than xml.
btw: in cayenne i'm beginner, hibernate, ibatis etc i'm using for years and
yes, i (and in fact all my colleagues) am editing xml's by hand.
from this point of view, programmers of modeler are programming in wrong way...
On 22.12.2012 15:55, Tony Giaccone wrote:
> In fact I would argue that any system that requires you to edit xml by hand
> is fundamentally broken (I"m looking at you JPA). XML is meant for machines
> not humans, and if you develop an xml dialect to represent something you've
> only started your work. Never make your users edit XML. Never.
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 21, 2012 at 6:21 PM, John Huss <jo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> This message should be on the user mailing list, not the dev list, so
>> please reply there.
>>
>> Cayenne is not primarily intended to be used that way, so there is no
>> tutorial. It is possible to do, but there's not really a good reason to
>> for a beginner. Using the modeler prevents from having to know the whole
>> XML api - instead the screens may it fairly easily to figure out what you
>> need to do.
>>
>> Anyway if you want to hand-code the XML you can create a mapping using the
>> modeler (or find an example) and then see how the XML looks, then follow
>> the same pattern. There is also a DTD somewhere I believe. But you should
>> really use the modeler, at least until you get a hang of the basics. Even
>> if you decide to skip the modeler later, start with it first.
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Dec 21, 2012 at 5:02 PM, Michael Jaruska
>> <mi...@gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>> hi folks,
>>>
>>> i'm searching for tutorial for using cayene without caynene modeler, i
>> need
>>> something like "download this jar, write this bean, edit this xml in this
>>> way
>>> and this is how you can access objects from database".
>>>
>>> i'm not fun of grafical/ide tools (writing this hope this won't lead into
>>> spam), just like hand-make work.
>>>
>>> is there tutorial with this aspect keeping in mind?
>>>
>>> please be patient to my beginer question.
>>>
>>> michael
>>>
>>
>
Re: basic tutorial
Posted by Tony Giaccone <to...@giaccone.org>.
In fact I would argue that any system that requires you to edit xml by hand
is fundamentally broken (I"m looking at you JPA). XML is meant for machines
not humans, and if you develop an xml dialect to represent something you've
only started your work. Never make your users edit XML. Never.
On Fri, Dec 21, 2012 at 6:21 PM, John Huss <jo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> This message should be on the user mailing list, not the dev list, so
> please reply there.
>
> Cayenne is not primarily intended to be used that way, so there is no
> tutorial. It is possible to do, but there's not really a good reason to
> for a beginner. Using the modeler prevents from having to know the whole
> XML api - instead the screens may it fairly easily to figure out what you
> need to do.
>
> Anyway if you want to hand-code the XML you can create a mapping using the
> modeler (or find an example) and then see how the XML looks, then follow
> the same pattern. There is also a DTD somewhere I believe. But you should
> really use the modeler, at least until you get a hang of the basics. Even
> if you decide to skip the modeler later, start with it first.
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 21, 2012 at 5:02 PM, Michael Jaruska
> <mi...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
> > hi folks,
> >
> > i'm searching for tutorial for using cayene without caynene modeler, i
> need
> > something like "download this jar, write this bean, edit this xml in this
> > way
> > and this is how you can access objects from database".
> >
> > i'm not fun of grafical/ide tools (writing this hope this won't lead into
> > spam), just like hand-make work.
> >
> > is there tutorial with this aspect keeping in mind?
> >
> > please be patient to my beginer question.
> >
> > michael
> >
>