You are viewing a plain text version of this content. The canonical link for it is here.
Posted to dev@netbeans.apache.org by Jaroslav Tulach <ja...@gmail.com> on 2018/04/23 06:14:24 UTC
The IDE for DevOps was: IntelliJ IDEA vs Netbeans
> I just spent the past 2 weeks using IntelliJ IDEA exclusively (having used
> it sporatically before). I'm going to share some brief thoughts in the
> hopes that it helps.
>
> As far as I can tell, IntelliJ's killer feature is their debugger (more
> broadly, their UI). Our killer feature is our profiler, and Maven
> integration (more broadly, bundling more functionality standard).
>
> * Netbeans drives development of Maven projects through Maven. This
> results in better integration than IntelliJ provides (e.g. good luck
> trying to start a debugging session through Maven)
>
Yeah, I can confirm setting up debugging (for Maven) in IntelliJ is so
complicated...
Once I called NetBeans the [IDE for devops and admins](
http://wiki.apidesign.org/wiki/DevOps) and this is what I meant. If you
care about your overall project structure, there shall be benefits of using
NetBeans+Maven. If you just care about the code, the IntelliJ's editor
focus may give you better experience.
Moreover the NetBeans approach is more fragile. Structures of pom.xml files
differ wildly and when they get out of expectations, things may get broken
or slow...
> indexing and performance levels can be done with the
> code currently in Apache NetBeans Git. Jaroslav Tulach will have insights
> as well as gratitude for help in this area
My thought is simple: there should be no Maven index processing on the
client (by default). There should be a webservice the IDE would query
instead. However my idea was rejected by last Oracle NetBeans performance
team last time I proposed it. It was found too complicated. Anybody wants
to pick that challenge up now?
-jt
Re: AW: The IDE for DevOps was: IntelliJ IDEA vs Netbeans
Posted by Tim Boudreau <ni...@gmail.com>.
Here you go:
https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans/pull/537
-Tim
On Fri, Apr 27, 2018 at 2:56 AM, Jaroslav Tulach <ja...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Tim,
> its 21th century and we are using GitHub. If you want to contribute, please
> do it via PR.
> Thanks.
> -jt
>
>
> 2018-04-25 13:31 GMT+02:00 Tim Boudreau <ni...@gmail.com>:
>
> > To follow up on this a bit, since I spent a bit of time attempting to
> > optimize this - the two big performance wins are:
> >
> > 1. Cache a byte[] and reuse it for every JAR entry (pass in a lambda to
> > read() rather than get out a Map<String,byte[]>)
> > 2. Maven's DefaultScanner will pass the indexer *every single file* in
> the
> > repository it's indexing, while NetBeans is likely uninterested in .sha1
> > files and similar; filtering the list of files to things NetBeans is
> > likely to be interested offers large benefits
> >
> > These two optimizations cut scanning time of my ~/.m2/repository dir
> (~2700
> > JAR files) from 42304ms to 30100ms, which is a 29% performance
> improvement
> > with
> >
> > That said, I have some tests to get passing before this is patch-worthy,
> so
> > we'll see if those results hold up.
> >
> > Of course, this only helps local indexing - whatever "Unpacking indexes"
> is
> > doing with remote repositories won't be helped by this.
> >
> > Still, it seems like something that could be optimized quite a bit before
> > giving up on it. If anyone's interested in poking at this:
> > https://timboudreau.com/files/maven-indexer.diff
> >
> > -Tim
> >
>
--
http://timboudreau.com
Re: AW: The IDE for DevOps was: IntelliJ IDEA vs Netbeans
Posted by Tim Boudreau <ni...@gmail.com>.
On Fri, Apr 27, 2018 at 1:56 AM Jaroslav Tulach <ja...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Tim,
> its 21th century and we are using GitHub. If you want to contribute, please
> do it via PR.
> Thanks.
As I said, when I have the tests passing I'll do that.
-Tim
> -jt
>
>
> 2018-04-25 13:31 GMT+02:00 Tim Boudreau <ni...@gmail.com>:
>
> > To follow up on this a bit, since I spent a bit of time attempting to
> > optimize this - the two big performance wins are:
> >
> > 1. Cache a byte[] and reuse it for every JAR entry (pass in a lambda to
> > read() rather than get out a Map<String,byte[]>)
> > 2. Maven's DefaultScanner will pass the indexer *every single file* in
> the
> > repository it's indexing, while NetBeans is likely uninterested in .sha1
> > files and similar; filtering the list of files to things NetBeans is
> > likely to be interested offers large benefits
> >
> > These two optimizations cut scanning time of my ~/.m2/repository dir
> (~2700
> > JAR files) from 42304ms to 30100ms, which is a 29% performance
> improvement
> > with
> >
> > That said, I have some tests to get passing before this is patch-worthy,
> so
> > we'll see if those results hold up.
> >
> > Of course, this only helps local indexing - whatever "Unpacking indexes"
> is
> > doing with remote repositories won't be helped by this.
> >
> > Still, it seems like something that could be optimized quite a bit before
> > giving up on it. If anyone's interested in poking at this:
> > https://timboudreau.com/files/maven-indexer.diff
> >
> > -Tim
> >
>
--
http://timboudreau.com
Re: AW: The IDE for DevOps was: IntelliJ IDEA vs Netbeans
Posted by Jaroslav Tulach <ja...@gmail.com>.
Tim,
its 21th century and we are using GitHub. If you want to contribute, please
do it via PR.
Thanks.
-jt
2018-04-25 13:31 GMT+02:00 Tim Boudreau <ni...@gmail.com>:
> To follow up on this a bit, since I spent a bit of time attempting to
> optimize this - the two big performance wins are:
>
> 1. Cache a byte[] and reuse it for every JAR entry (pass in a lambda to
> read() rather than get out a Map<String,byte[]>)
> 2. Maven's DefaultScanner will pass the indexer *every single file* in the
> repository it's indexing, while NetBeans is likely uninterested in .sha1
> files and similar; filtering the list of files to things NetBeans is
> likely to be interested offers large benefits
>
> These two optimizations cut scanning time of my ~/.m2/repository dir (~2700
> JAR files) from 42304ms to 30100ms, which is a 29% performance improvement
> with
>
> That said, I have some tests to get passing before this is patch-worthy, so
> we'll see if those results hold up.
>
> Of course, this only helps local indexing - whatever "Unpacking indexes" is
> doing with remote repositories won't be helped by this.
>
> Still, it seems like something that could be optimized quite a bit before
> giving up on it. If anyone's interested in poking at this:
> https://timboudreau.com/files/maven-indexer.diff
>
> -Tim
>
Re: AW: The IDE for DevOps was: IntelliJ IDEA vs Netbeans
Posted by Tim Boudreau <ni...@gmail.com>.
To follow up on this a bit, since I spent a bit of time attempting to
optimize this - the two big performance wins are:
1. Cache a byte[] and reuse it for every JAR entry (pass in a lambda to
read() rather than get out a Map<String,byte[]>)
2. Maven's DefaultScanner will pass the indexer *every single file* in the
repository it's indexing, while NetBeans is likely uninterested in .sha1
files and similar; filtering the list of files to things NetBeans is
likely to be interested offers large benefits
These two optimizations cut scanning time of my ~/.m2/repository dir (~2700
JAR files) from 42304ms to 30100ms, which is a 29% performance improvement
with
That said, I have some tests to get passing before this is patch-worthy, so
we'll see if those results hold up.
Of course, this only helps local indexing - whatever "Unpacking indexes" is
doing with remote repositories won't be helped by this.
Still, it seems like something that could be optimized quite a bit before
giving up on it. If anyone's interested in poking at this:
https://timboudreau.com/files/maven-indexer.diff
-Tim
Re: AW: The IDE for DevOps was: IntelliJ IDEA vs Netbeans
Posted by Tim Boudreau <ni...@gmail.com>.
Just taking five minutes to glance at ClassDependencyIndexCreator, I see a
bunch of possible optimizations:
1. For each JAR file, it creates a Map<String,byte[]> of
className:classBytes, and then iterating it and creating a ClassFile over
each one. Garbage-collection wise, it would be considerably cheaper to do
the work as the JAR is iterated.
2. A bunch of uses of TreeMap and TreeSet, where it might be cheaper to use
HashSet and sort into a list when done - guessing this is done to sort
Foo$Bar below Foo?
3. addDependenciesToMap() appears to actually call
ClassLoader.getSystemClassLoader().getParent().loadClass() with a bunch of
classes found in a random JAR it is scanning. I have trouble imagining why
that would ever be a good idea, or is necessary here, and it definitely
could seriously impact performance. Unfortunately with a Git checkout, I
don't have the history to figure out why. It looks like it is to determine
if the class is part of the JDK perhaps? If so, a much faster test would
be to look at the package name - yes, theoretically someone can create
their own java.lang package, but that's a corner case, and no matter what,
actually loading into the JVM every class seen when indexing is costly both
in loading things that will never be used by the IDE, and an incredible
number of ClassNotFoundExceptions constructed, probably fairly deep in the
stack.
-Tim
On Mon, Apr 23, 2018 at 3:32 AM, Jaroslav Tulach <ja...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> 2018-04-23 8:40 GMT+02:00 Laszlo Kishalmi <la...@gmail.com>:
>
> > Dear all,
> >
> > I just experimented some stuff for that yesterday using bintray API for
> > their repositories. I was able to retrieve a list of packages by
> > group/artifact ID-s and even query artifacts by package/class names,
> though
> > the later one might need to use the "I feel lucky!" heuristics, as I
> > searched for the new JUnit5 package and that gave me 14000+ matches and
> > returned the first 50.
>
>
> Excellent. If you put this query in and change the default for the
> download/update of local indexer to "never", I'd be happy.
> -jt
>
> PS: Maybe there will be some bugs, but the current indexer performance is
> "buggy" too and a lot!
>
>
> > On 04/22/2018 11:28 PM, Christian Lenz wrote:
> >
> >> Hey Jaroslav,
> >>
> >> I think now it is the best time to do the Approach again under Apache 😊
> >>
> >
> PPS: Probably. It has just one issue: There needs to be somebody to do it.
>
--
http://timboudreau.com
Re: AW: The IDE for DevOps was: IntelliJ IDEA vs Netbeans
Posted by Jaroslav Tulach <ja...@gmail.com>.
2018-04-23 8:40 GMT+02:00 Laszlo Kishalmi <la...@gmail.com>:
> Dear all,
>
> I just experimented some stuff for that yesterday using bintray API for
> their repositories. I was able to retrieve a list of packages by
> group/artifact ID-s and even query artifacts by package/class names, though
> the later one might need to use the "I feel lucky!" heuristics, as I
> searched for the new JUnit5 package and that gave me 14000+ matches and
> returned the first 50.
Excellent. If you put this query in and change the default for the
download/update of local indexer to "never", I'd be happy.
-jt
PS: Maybe there will be some bugs, but the current indexer performance is
"buggy" too and a lot!
> On 04/22/2018 11:28 PM, Christian Lenz wrote:
>
>> Hey Jaroslav,
>>
>> I think now it is the best time to do the Approach again under Apache 😊
>>
>
PPS: Probably. It has just one issue: There needs to be somebody to do it.
Re: AW: The IDE for DevOps was: IntelliJ IDEA vs Netbeans
Posted by John McDonnell <mc...@gmail.com>.
Yeah, I can confirm setting up debugging (for Maven) in IntelliJ is so
complicated...
The one thing I think they have right is having multiple configurations.
I'd love the ability to save a configuration, either with a name, or hell
even as simple as the host, and port number fields remembering previously
used entries - Working on a system with multiple Spring boot services means
each one of them has different debug ports, and remembering them is getting
tougher the more we add...
(off to search JIRA for an existing ticket, or to create a new one before I
start work ;) )
Regards
John
On 23 April 2018 at 07:40, Laszlo Kishalmi <la...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Dear all,
>
> I just experimented some stuff for that yesterday using bintray API for
> their repositories. I was able to retrieve a list of packages by
> group/artifact ID-s and even query artifacts by package/class names, though
> the later one might need to use the "I feel lucky!" heuristics, as I
> searched for the new JUnit5 package and that gave me 14000+ matches and
> returned the first 50.
>
>
>
> On 04/22/2018 11:28 PM, Christian Lenz wrote:
>
>> Hey Jaroslav,
>>
>> I think now it is the best time to do the Approach again under Apache 😊
>>
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Chris
>>
>> Von: Jaroslav Tulach
>> Gesendet: Montag, 23. April 2018 08:14
>> An: Apache NetBeans
>> Betreff: The IDE for DevOps was: IntelliJ IDEA vs Netbeans
>>
>> I just spent the past 2 weeks using IntelliJ IDEA exclusively (having used
>>> it sporatically before). I'm going to share some brief thoughts in the
>>> hopes that it helps.
>>>
>>> As far as I can tell, IntelliJ's killer feature is their debugger (more
>>> broadly, their UI). Our killer feature is our profiler, and Maven
>>> integration (more broadly, bundling more functionality standard).
>>>
>>> * Netbeans drives development of Maven projects through Maven. This
>>> results in better integration than IntelliJ provides (e.g. good luck
>>> trying to start a debugging session through Maven)
>>>
>>> Yeah, I can confirm setting up debugging (for Maven) in IntelliJ is so
>> complicated...
>>
>> Once I called NetBeans the [IDE for devops and admins](
>> http://wiki.apidesign.org/wiki/DevOps) and this is what I meant. If you
>> care about your overall project structure, there shall be benefits of
>> using
>> NetBeans+Maven. If you just care about the code, the IntelliJ's editor
>> focus may give you better experience.
>>
>> Moreover the NetBeans approach is more fragile. Structures of pom.xml
>> files
>> differ wildly and when they get out of expectations, things may get broken
>> or slow...
>>
>> indexing and performance levels can be done with the
>>> code currently in Apache NetBeans Git. Jaroslav Tulach will have insights
>>> as well as gratitude for help in this area
>>>
>> My thought is simple: there should be no Maven index processing on the
>> client (by default). There should be a webservice the IDE would query
>> instead. However my idea was rejected by last Oracle NetBeans performance
>> team last time I proposed it. It was found too complicated. Anybody wants
>> to pick that challenge up now?
>>
>> -jt
>>
>>
>>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>
> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>
>
>
>
Re: AW: The IDE for DevOps was: IntelliJ IDEA vs Netbeans
Posted by Laszlo Kishalmi <la...@gmail.com>.
Dear all,
I just experimented some stuff for that yesterday using bintray API for
their repositories. I was able to retrieve a list of packages by
group/artifact ID-s and even query artifacts by package/class names,
though the later one might need to use the "I feel lucky!" heuristics,
as I searched for the new JUnit5 package and that gave me 14000+ matches
and returned the first 50.
On 04/22/2018 11:28 PM, Christian Lenz wrote:
> Hey Jaroslav,
>
> I think now it is the best time to do the Approach again under Apache 😊
>
>
> Cheers
>
> Chris
>
> Von: Jaroslav Tulach
> Gesendet: Montag, 23. April 2018 08:14
> An: Apache NetBeans
> Betreff: The IDE for DevOps was: IntelliJ IDEA vs Netbeans
>
>> I just spent the past 2 weeks using IntelliJ IDEA exclusively (having used
>> it sporatically before). I'm going to share some brief thoughts in the
>> hopes that it helps.
>>
>> As far as I can tell, IntelliJ's killer feature is their debugger (more
>> broadly, their UI). Our killer feature is our profiler, and Maven
>> integration (more broadly, bundling more functionality standard).
>>
>> * Netbeans drives development of Maven projects through Maven. This
>> results in better integration than IntelliJ provides (e.g. good luck
>> trying to start a debugging session through Maven)
>>
> Yeah, I can confirm setting up debugging (for Maven) in IntelliJ is so
> complicated...
>
> Once I called NetBeans the [IDE for devops and admins](
> http://wiki.apidesign.org/wiki/DevOps) and this is what I meant. If you
> care about your overall project structure, there shall be benefits of using
> NetBeans+Maven. If you just care about the code, the IntelliJ's editor
> focus may give you better experience.
>
> Moreover the NetBeans approach is more fragile. Structures of pom.xml files
> differ wildly and when they get out of expectations, things may get broken
> or slow...
>
>> indexing and performance levels can be done with the
>> code currently in Apache NetBeans Git. Jaroslav Tulach will have insights
>> as well as gratitude for help in this area
> My thought is simple: there should be no Maven index processing on the
> client (by default). There should be a webservice the IDE would query
> instead. However my idea was rejected by last Oracle NetBeans performance
> team last time I proposed it. It was found too complicated. Anybody wants
> to pick that challenge up now?
>
> -jt
>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
AW: The IDE for DevOps was: IntelliJ IDEA vs Netbeans
Posted by Christian Lenz <ch...@gmx.net>.
Hey Jaroslav,
I think now it is the best time to do the Approach again under Apache 😊
Cheers
Chris
Von: Jaroslav Tulach
Gesendet: Montag, 23. April 2018 08:14
An: Apache NetBeans
Betreff: The IDE for DevOps was: IntelliJ IDEA vs Netbeans
> I just spent the past 2 weeks using IntelliJ IDEA exclusively (having used
> it sporatically before). I'm going to share some brief thoughts in the
> hopes that it helps.
>
> As far as I can tell, IntelliJ's killer feature is their debugger (more
> broadly, their UI). Our killer feature is our profiler, and Maven
> integration (more broadly, bundling more functionality standard).
>
> * Netbeans drives development of Maven projects through Maven. This
> results in better integration than IntelliJ provides (e.g. good luck
> trying to start a debugging session through Maven)
>
Yeah, I can confirm setting up debugging (for Maven) in IntelliJ is so
complicated...
Once I called NetBeans the [IDE for devops and admins](
http://wiki.apidesign.org/wiki/DevOps) and this is what I meant. If you
care about your overall project structure, there shall be benefits of using
NetBeans+Maven. If you just care about the code, the IntelliJ's editor
focus may give you better experience.
Moreover the NetBeans approach is more fragile. Structures of pom.xml files
differ wildly and when they get out of expectations, things may get broken
or slow...
> indexing and performance levels can be done with the
> code currently in Apache NetBeans Git. Jaroslav Tulach will have insights
> as well as gratitude for help in this area
My thought is simple: there should be no Maven index processing on the
client (by default). There should be a webservice the IDE would query
instead. However my idea was rejected by last Oracle NetBeans performance
team last time I proposed it. It was found too complicated. Anybody wants
to pick that challenge up now?
-jt
Re: The IDE for DevOps was: IntelliJ IDEA vs Netbeans
Posted by cowwoc <co...@bbs.darktech.org>.
Hi Jesse,
How about routing all queries related to Maven central through the REST
API and all other requests through the indexer? This would substantially
reduce the amount of processing taking place on the indexer without
interfering with the offline use-case.
We'd still need to optimize the indexer because in some companies I've
worked for the offline binary servers cache large parts of Maven
Central, so when Netbeans indexes them it ends up with the same problem.
Still, this will impact a much smaller percentage of our users.
Gili
On 2018-04-27 9:57 PM, Jesse Glick wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 23, 2018 at 2:14 AM, Jaroslav Tulach
> <ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> there should be no Maven index processing on the
>> client (by default). There should be a webservice the IDE would query
>> instead.
> This just begs the question of which web service that would be. If you
> only use Maven Central, fine, but if you are using custom or even
> private/firewalled repositories, this will not fly.
>
> Not to say that the current Nexus index system is ideal—in fact Nexus
> 3 seems to have dropped this feature, at least so far, so you have to
> stay on Nexus 2. (Or, ironically, Artifactory.)
>
> *Probably* the current indexer functionality could be replaced by REST
> calls to your artifact manager. But there is no standard API for that,
> as far as I know, so there would need to be separately maintained
> Nexus and Artifactory modules.
>
> One relatively easy target for optimization, however: stop relying on
> the indexer to service queries about available versions of a given
> artifact (i.e., find GAVs when GA is known). That is a common
> operation: for example, completion on `<version>` in a POM, or the
> hint about an old `<parent>`. This can be done quite simply and
> portably by downloading `maven-metadata.xml` from the repository. In
> fact Maven itself downloads this automatically at various times, and
> caches it in the local repository; and the accuracy of even the cached
> version is generally better than that of a Nexus index: Maven
> refreshes the cache once per day or when passed `-U` or when running
> `mvn install`.
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>
> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>
>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
Re: The IDE for DevOps was: IntelliJ IDEA vs Netbeans
Posted by Jesse Glick <ty...@gmail.com>.
On Mon, Apr 23, 2018 at 2:14 AM, Jaroslav Tulach
<ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
> there should be no Maven index processing on the
> client (by default). There should be a webservice the IDE would query
> instead.
This just begs the question of which web service that would be. If you
only use Maven Central, fine, but if you are using custom or even
private/firewalled repositories, this will not fly.
Not to say that the current Nexus index system is ideal—in fact Nexus
3 seems to have dropped this feature, at least so far, so you have to
stay on Nexus 2. (Or, ironically, Artifactory.)
*Probably* the current indexer functionality could be replaced by REST
calls to your artifact manager. But there is no standard API for that,
as far as I know, so there would need to be separately maintained
Nexus and Artifactory modules.
One relatively easy target for optimization, however: stop relying on
the indexer to service queries about available versions of a given
artifact (i.e., find GAVs when GA is known). That is a common
operation: for example, completion on `<version>` in a POM, or the
hint about an old `<parent>`. This can be done quite simply and
portably by downloading `maven-metadata.xml` from the repository. In
fact Maven itself downloads this automatically at various times, and
caches it in the local repository; and the accuracy of even the cached
version is generally better than that of a Nexus index: Maven
refreshes the cache once per day or when passed `-U` or when running
`mvn install`.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
Re: The IDE for DevOps was: IntelliJ IDEA vs Netbeans
Posted by Kai Uwe Pel <ka...@asia.com>.
//I agree completely with Ondro's suggestion and advice.
Usually, I also prefer to set as "never" on the "Dependency Download
Strategy", and set a mark at "Completely disable indexing".
Kai
On 4/24/2018 3:09 PM, Ondro Mihályi wrote:
> Hi Jaroslav,
>
> You have my full support for this. Getting rid of Maven indexer and
> searching on the fly is exactly what I'd like to do too - in fact I always
> set indexing to "never" and run manually from time to time because the
> indexer freezes the IDE.
>
> A partial workaround would be to add pauses during unpacking and indexing
> artifacts to avoid freezing the IDE. But still, it doesn't make sense to
> index whole maven repo and store a couple of GB on disk. I run Netbeans
> under 2 different user accounts and I had to point Netbeasn to the same
> directory to store the index to save a couple of GB by a redundant index.
>
> Ondro
>
> 2018-04-23 8:14 GMT+02:00 Jaroslav Tulach <ja...@gmail.com>:
>
>>> I just spent the past 2 weeks using IntelliJ IDEA exclusively (having
>> used
>>> it sporatically before). I'm going to share some brief thoughts in the
>>> hopes that it helps.
>>>
>>> As far as I can tell, IntelliJ's killer feature is their debugger (more
>>> broadly, their UI). Our killer feature is our profiler, and Maven
>>> integration (more broadly, bundling more functionality standard).
>>>
>>> * Netbeans drives development of Maven projects through Maven. This
>>> results in better integration than IntelliJ provides (e.g. good luck
>>> trying to start a debugging session through Maven)
>>>
>> Yeah, I can confirm setting up debugging (for Maven) in IntelliJ is so
>> complicated...
>>
>> Once I called NetBeans the [IDE for devops and admins](
>> http://wiki.apidesign.org/wiki/DevOps) and this is what I meant. If you
>> care about your overall project structure, there shall be benefits of using
>> NetBeans+Maven. If you just care about the code, the IntelliJ's editor
>> focus may give you better experience.
>>
>> Moreover the NetBeans approach is more fragile. Structures of pom.xml files
>> differ wildly and when they get out of expectations, things may get broken
>> or slow...
>>
>>> indexing and performance levels can be done with the
>>> code currently in Apache NetBeans Git. Jaroslav Tulach will have insights
>>> as well as gratitude for help in this area
>> My thought is simple: there should be no Maven index processing on the
>> client (by default). There should be a webservice the IDE would query
>> instead. However my idea was rejected by last Oracle NetBeans performance
>> team last time I proposed it. It was found too complicated. Anybody wants
>> to pick that challenge up now?
>>
>> -jt
>>
Re: The IDE for DevOps was: IntelliJ IDEA vs Netbeans
Posted by Emilian Bold <em...@protonmail.ch>.
Yes, the plugin already exists!
Here: it has a tiny source https://bitbucket.org/emilianbold/maven.search.remote/src/748e56fbaec383ec915f7bb6c473564c52428107/ro.emilianbold.modules.maven.search.remote/src/ro/emilianbold/modules/maven/search/remote/?at=default
It's even BSD licensed and I will gladly relicense it as Apache or donate it myself via a PR.
The *majority* of users have problems with Maven Central.
While we are hunting for a perfect universal solution we are wasting probably * 100 TeraBytes * of disk space world wide across our users by not providing a simple Maven Central query like this tiny plugin does.
It could even be a nice bullet point for an Apache NetBeans release: "saves you 1GB of Maven index disk space". Some users would migrate for this feature alone!
--emi
‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
On 24 April 2018 4:12 PM, Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> Or use this:
>
> https://jaxenter.com/netbeans/keep-netbeans-nimble-with-maven-remote-search
>
> Gj
>
> On Tue, Apr 24, 2018 at 3:09 PM, Ondro Mihályi ondrej.mihalyi@gmail.com
>
> wrote:
>
> > Hi Jaroslav,
> >
> > You have my full support for this. Getting rid of Maven indexer and
> >
> > searching on the fly is exactly what I'd like to do too - in fact I always
> >
> > set indexing to "never" and run manually from time to time because the
> >
> > indexer freezes the IDE.
> >
> > A partial workaround would be to add pauses during unpacking and indexing
> >
> > artifacts to avoid freezing the IDE. But still, it doesn't make sense to
> >
> > index whole maven repo and store a couple of GB on disk. I run Netbeans
> >
> > under 2 different user accounts and I had to point Netbeasn to the same
> >
> > directory to store the index to save a couple of GB by a redundant index.
> >
> > Ondro
> >
> > 2018-04-23 8:14 GMT+02:00 Jaroslav Tulach jaroslav.tulach@gmail.com:
> >
> > > > I just spent the past 2 weeks using IntelliJ IDEA exclusively (having
> > > >
> > > > used
> > > >
> > > > it sporatically before). I'm going to share some brief thoughts in the
> > > >
> > > > hopes that it helps.
> > > >
> > > > As far as I can tell, IntelliJ's killer feature is their debugger (more
> > > >
> > > > broadly, their UI). Our killer feature is our profiler, and Maven
> > > >
> > > > integration (more broadly, bundling more functionality standard).
> > > >
> > > > - Netbeans drives development of Maven projects through Maven. This
> > > >
> > > > results in better integration than IntelliJ provides (e.g. good luck
> > > >
> > > > trying to start a debugging session through Maven)
> > > >
> > >
> > > Yeah, I can confirm setting up debugging (for Maven) in IntelliJ is so
> > >
> > > complicated...
> > >
> > > Once I called NetBeans the IDE for devops and admins and this is what I meant. If you
> > >
> > > care about your overall project structure, there shall be benefits of
> > >
> > > using
> > >
> > > NetBeans+Maven. If you just care about the code, the IntelliJ's editor
> > >
> > > focus may give you better experience.
> > >
> > > Moreover the NetBeans approach is more fragile. Structures of pom.xml
> > >
> > > files
> > >
> > > differ wildly and when they get out of expectations, things may get
> > >
> > > broken
> > >
> > > or slow...
> > >
> > > > indexing and performance levels can be done with the
> > > >
> > > > code currently in Apache NetBeans Git. Jaroslav Tulach will have
> > > >
> > > > insights
> > >
> > > > as well as gratitude for help in this area
> > >
> > > My thought is simple: there should be no Maven index processing on the
> > >
> > > client (by default). There should be a webservice the IDE would query
> > >
> > > instead. However my idea was rejected by last Oracle NetBeans performance
> > >
> > > team last time I proposed it. It was found too complicated. Anybody wants
> > >
> > > to pick that challenge up now?
> > >
> > > -jt
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
Re: The IDE for DevOps was: IntelliJ IDEA vs Netbeans
Posted by George Aristy <ge...@gmail.com>.
Very nice! Will give it a spin.
On Tue, Apr 24, 2018 at 9:12 AM, Geertjan Wielenga <
geertjan.wielenga@googlemail.com> wrote:
> Or use this:
> https://jaxenter.com/netbeans/keep-netbeans-nimble-with-
> maven-remote-search
>
> Gj
>
> On Tue, Apr 24, 2018 at 3:09 PM, Ondro Mihályi <on...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Hi Jaroslav,
> >
> > You have my full support for this. Getting rid of Maven indexer and
> > searching on the fly is exactly what I'd like to do too - in fact I
> always
> > set indexing to "never" and run manually from time to time because the
> > indexer freezes the IDE.
> >
> > A partial workaround would be to add pauses during unpacking and indexing
> > artifacts to avoid freezing the IDE. But still, it doesn't make sense to
> > index whole maven repo and store a couple of GB on disk. I run Netbeans
> > under 2 different user accounts and I had to point Netbeasn to the same
> > directory to store the index to save a couple of GB by a redundant index.
> >
> > Ondro
> >
> > 2018-04-23 8:14 GMT+02:00 Jaroslav Tulach <ja...@gmail.com>:
> >
> > > > I just spent the past 2 weeks using IntelliJ IDEA exclusively (having
> > > used
> > > > it sporatically before). I'm going to share some brief thoughts in
> the
> > > > hopes that it helps.
> > > >
> > > > As far as I can tell, IntelliJ's killer feature is their debugger
> (more
> > > > broadly, their UI). Our killer feature is our profiler, and Maven
> > > > integration (more broadly, bundling more functionality standard).
> > > >
> > > > * Netbeans drives development of Maven projects through Maven. This
> > > > results in better integration than IntelliJ provides (e.g. good
> luck
> > > > trying to start a debugging session through Maven)
> > > >
> > >
> > > Yeah, I can confirm setting up debugging (for Maven) in IntelliJ is so
> > > complicated...
> > >
> > > Once I called NetBeans the [IDE for devops and admins](
> > > http://wiki.apidesign.org/wiki/DevOps) and this is what I meant. If
> you
> > > care about your overall project structure, there shall be benefits of
> > using
> > > NetBeans+Maven. If you just care about the code, the IntelliJ's editor
> > > focus may give you better experience.
> > >
> > > Moreover the NetBeans approach is more fragile. Structures of pom.xml
> > files
> > > differ wildly and when they get out of expectations, things may get
> > broken
> > > or slow...
> > >
> > > > indexing and performance levels can be done with the
> > > > code currently in Apache NetBeans Git. Jaroslav Tulach will have
> > insights
> > > > as well as gratitude for help in this area
> > >
> > > My thought is simple: there should be no Maven index processing on the
> > > client (by default). There should be a webservice the IDE would query
> > > instead. However my idea was rejected by last Oracle NetBeans
> performance
> > > team last time I proposed it. It was found too complicated. Anybody
> wants
> > > to pick that challenge up now?
> > >
> > > -jt
> > >
> >
>
--
George A. Aristy Carpio
cel.: (829) 641-7726
Re: The IDE for DevOps was: IntelliJ IDEA vs Netbeans
Posted by Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@googlemail.com>.
Or use this:
https://jaxenter.com/netbeans/keep-netbeans-nimble-with-maven-remote-search
Gj
On Tue, Apr 24, 2018 at 3:09 PM, Ondro Mihályi <on...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Hi Jaroslav,
>
> You have my full support for this. Getting rid of Maven indexer and
> searching on the fly is exactly what I'd like to do too - in fact I always
> set indexing to "never" and run manually from time to time because the
> indexer freezes the IDE.
>
> A partial workaround would be to add pauses during unpacking and indexing
> artifacts to avoid freezing the IDE. But still, it doesn't make sense to
> index whole maven repo and store a couple of GB on disk. I run Netbeans
> under 2 different user accounts and I had to point Netbeasn to the same
> directory to store the index to save a couple of GB by a redundant index.
>
> Ondro
>
> 2018-04-23 8:14 GMT+02:00 Jaroslav Tulach <ja...@gmail.com>:
>
> > > I just spent the past 2 weeks using IntelliJ IDEA exclusively (having
> > used
> > > it sporatically before). I'm going to share some brief thoughts in the
> > > hopes that it helps.
> > >
> > > As far as I can tell, IntelliJ's killer feature is their debugger (more
> > > broadly, their UI). Our killer feature is our profiler, and Maven
> > > integration (more broadly, bundling more functionality standard).
> > >
> > > * Netbeans drives development of Maven projects through Maven. This
> > > results in better integration than IntelliJ provides (e.g. good luck
> > > trying to start a debugging session through Maven)
> > >
> >
> > Yeah, I can confirm setting up debugging (for Maven) in IntelliJ is so
> > complicated...
> >
> > Once I called NetBeans the [IDE for devops and admins](
> > http://wiki.apidesign.org/wiki/DevOps) and this is what I meant. If you
> > care about your overall project structure, there shall be benefits of
> using
> > NetBeans+Maven. If you just care about the code, the IntelliJ's editor
> > focus may give you better experience.
> >
> > Moreover the NetBeans approach is more fragile. Structures of pom.xml
> files
> > differ wildly and when they get out of expectations, things may get
> broken
> > or slow...
> >
> > > indexing and performance levels can be done with the
> > > code currently in Apache NetBeans Git. Jaroslav Tulach will have
> insights
> > > as well as gratitude for help in this area
> >
> > My thought is simple: there should be no Maven index processing on the
> > client (by default). There should be a webservice the IDE would query
> > instead. However my idea was rejected by last Oracle NetBeans performance
> > team last time I proposed it. It was found too complicated. Anybody wants
> > to pick that challenge up now?
> >
> > -jt
> >
>
Re: The IDE for DevOps was: IntelliJ IDEA vs Netbeans
Posted by Ondro Mihályi <on...@gmail.com>.
Hi Jaroslav,
You have my full support for this. Getting rid of Maven indexer and
searching on the fly is exactly what I'd like to do too - in fact I always
set indexing to "never" and run manually from time to time because the
indexer freezes the IDE.
A partial workaround would be to add pauses during unpacking and indexing
artifacts to avoid freezing the IDE. But still, it doesn't make sense to
index whole maven repo and store a couple of GB on disk. I run Netbeans
under 2 different user accounts and I had to point Netbeasn to the same
directory to store the index to save a couple of GB by a redundant index.
Ondro
2018-04-23 8:14 GMT+02:00 Jaroslav Tulach <ja...@gmail.com>:
> > I just spent the past 2 weeks using IntelliJ IDEA exclusively (having
> used
> > it sporatically before). I'm going to share some brief thoughts in the
> > hopes that it helps.
> >
> > As far as I can tell, IntelliJ's killer feature is their debugger (more
> > broadly, their UI). Our killer feature is our profiler, and Maven
> > integration (more broadly, bundling more functionality standard).
> >
> > * Netbeans drives development of Maven projects through Maven. This
> > results in better integration than IntelliJ provides (e.g. good luck
> > trying to start a debugging session through Maven)
> >
>
> Yeah, I can confirm setting up debugging (for Maven) in IntelliJ is so
> complicated...
>
> Once I called NetBeans the [IDE for devops and admins](
> http://wiki.apidesign.org/wiki/DevOps) and this is what I meant. If you
> care about your overall project structure, there shall be benefits of using
> NetBeans+Maven. If you just care about the code, the IntelliJ's editor
> focus may give you better experience.
>
> Moreover the NetBeans approach is more fragile. Structures of pom.xml files
> differ wildly and when they get out of expectations, things may get broken
> or slow...
>
> > indexing and performance levels can be done with the
> > code currently in Apache NetBeans Git. Jaroslav Tulach will have insights
> > as well as gratitude for help in this area
>
> My thought is simple: there should be no Maven index processing on the
> client (by default). There should be a webservice the IDE would query
> instead. However my idea was rejected by last Oracle NetBeans performance
> team last time I proposed it. It was found too complicated. Anybody wants
> to pick that challenge up now?
>
> -jt
>