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Posted to ivy-user@ant.apache.org by Xavier Hanin <xa...@gmail.com> on 2007/05/29 14:45:10 UTC
jdk version required (was Re: Extending IvyBuildList)
On 5/29/07, John Gill <ll...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> No Generics!!! It makes the code so much cleaner... I wonder how many
> developers are still stuck on 1.4 (Ivy/Ant/Maven users in particular)?
> 1.4is two version behind the latest now...
Indeed, this is something that can be discussed. It's been a long time since
I don't use 1.4 myself, but it's difficult to estimate for the whole user
community.
Any thoughts?
Xavier
On 5/29/07, Xavier Hanin <xa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > Simple and interesting change, indeed, I think it doesn't hurt to open
> an
> > issue :). For the patch, the only thing is that we are jdk 1.4compliant,
> > so
> > the use of generics is prohibited.
> >
> > Xavier
> >
> > On 5/29/07, Jean-Baptiste Quenot <jb...@apache.org> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Ivy,
> > >
> > > Thanks for providing this great API, and more particularly the
> > > IvyBuildList Ant task that I extend to generate my Hudson
> > > configuration files automatically for continuous build of my
> > > project.
> > >
> > > I only had to slightly modify it to be able to get the list of
> > > sorted modules, and the list of build files. See the attached
> > > patch.
> > >
> > > NOTE: this patch is based on Ivy 1.4.1, but it should be possible
> > > to do the same thing on trunk (the patch does not apply on trunk).
> > >
> > > If this change makes sense to you, I can file a JIRA issue.
> > >
> > > WDYT?
> > > --
> > > Jean-Baptiste Quenot
> > > aka John Banana Qwerty
> > > http://caraldi.com/jbq/
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Xavier Hanin - Independent Java Consultant
> > Manage your dependencies with Ivy!
> > http://incubator.apache.org/ivy/
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Regards,
> John Gill
>
--
Xavier Hanin - Independent Java Consultant
Manage your dependencies with Ivy!
http://incubator.apache.org/ivy/
Re: jdk version required (was Re: Extending IvyBuildList)
Posted by Xavier Hanin <xa...@gmail.com>.
On 5/29/07, John Gill <ll...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Well for one, it is "only" an ant plugin, so it's not like it is forcing
No, Ivy is not "only" an ant plugin, even if it's its primary use case. Ivy
can be used standalone, or embedded as a library. In the latter case it
requires to use generics in the client code. But I don't think it's that
much an issue, people writing code now shouldn't be too afraid of generics.
It's really more matter of building with Ivy, because a build system is
something that is not changed that often, and some still prefer running with
old java version (even if they migrate to Ivy.
Xavier
everyone to write their programs using generics, but it would mean they
> would need java5 to run ANT/IVY. I think all they have to do in their ant
> builds is specify the source and target attributes for the javac task to
> specify what they are building. So if they want java 1.4 they can use
> <javac source="1.4" target="1.4"... />
>
> Maybe a snap poll of some kind to see if anyone would mind and what most
> of
> the community is using.
>
> What about other apache projects (ant, maven would be the main ones I
> guess), have any of them moved to generics, or do you know if they plan
> to?
>
> It really doesn't bother me that much if IVY stays on 1.4, but generics
> makes a big difference to readability. There is nothing worse than a
> method
> that returns a Collection, and you wonder "A collection of what?"
>
> In the end though, if moving to 1.5 prevents moving to IVY, then it's
> probably not a good idea.
>
> On 5/29/07, Xavier Hanin <xa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > On 5/29/07, John Gill <ll...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > No Generics!!! It makes the code so much cleaner... I wonder how many
> > > developers are still stuck on 1.4 (Ivy/Ant/Maven users in particular)?
> > > 1.4is two version behind the latest now...
> >
> >
> > Indeed, this is something that can be discussed. It's been a long time
> > since
> > I don't use 1.4 myself, but it's difficult to estimate for the whole
> user
> > community.
> >
> > Any thoughts?
> >
> > Xavier
> >
> > On 5/29/07, Xavier Hanin <xa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi,
> > > >
> > > > Simple and interesting change, indeed, I think it doesn't hurt to
> open
> > > an
> > > > issue :). For the patch, the only thing is that we are jdk
> > 1.4compliant,
> > > > so
> > > > the use of generics is prohibited.
> > > >
> > > > Xavier
> > > >
> > > > On 5/29/07, Jean-Baptiste Quenot <jb...@apache.org> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi Ivy,
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks for providing this great API, and more particularly the
> > > > > IvyBuildList Ant task that I extend to generate my Hudson
> > > > > configuration files automatically for continuous build of my
> > > > > project.
> > > > >
> > > > > I only had to slightly modify it to be able to get the list of
> > > > > sorted modules, and the list of build files. See the attached
> > > > > patch.
> > > > >
> > > > > NOTE: this patch is based on Ivy 1.4.1, but it should be possible
> > > > > to do the same thing on trunk (the patch does not apply on trunk).
> > > > >
> > > > > If this change makes sense to you, I can file a JIRA issue.
> > > > >
> > > > > WDYT?
> > > > > --
> > > > > Jean-Baptiste Quenot
> > > > > aka John Banana Qwerty
> > > > > http://caraldi.com/jbq/
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Xavier Hanin - Independent Java Consultant
> > > > Manage your dependencies with Ivy!
> > > > http://incubator.apache.org/ivy/
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Regards,
> > > John Gill
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Xavier Hanin - Independent Java Consultant
> > Manage your dependencies with Ivy!
> > http://incubator.apache.org/ivy/
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Regards,
> John Gill
>
--
Xavier Hanin - Independent Java Consultant
Manage your dependencies with Ivy!
http://incubator.apache.org/ivy/
RE: jdk version required (was Re: Extending IvyBuildList)
Posted by Gilles Scokart <gs...@gmail.com>.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Gill [mailto:llignhoj@gmail.com]
> Sent: mardi 29 mai 2007 15:16
> To: ivy-user@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: Re: jdk version required (was Re: Extending IvyBuildList)
>
> Well for one, it is "only" an ant plugin, so it's not like it is forcing
> everyone to write their programs using generics, but it would mean they
> would need java5 to run ANT/IVY. I think all they have to do in their ant
> builds is specify the source and target attributes for the javac task to
> specify what they are building. So if they want java 1.4 they can use
> <javac source="1.4" target="1.4"... />
>
That's unformtunately not so simple. When you use <javac source="1.4"
target="1.4"... />, you are indeed compile sources that follow 1.4 syntax,
and you produce .class in the 1.4 'format'. However, you code can still use
jre methods that only exists since 1.5. The Sun JDK compiler will not check
if the method exists in 1.4. And you will endup with runtime error.
Gilles
RE: jdk version required (was Re: Extending IvyBuildList)
Posted by Bourzeix,
Hervé <He...@Genesys.com>.
I agree, generics make the code cleaner but in other hand 1.4 compatibility make a tool easy to use for anyone. Many products like application server are not 1.5 compatible ( weblogic 8.1 is not for instance)
To overcome , I used a tool called retroweaver, really cool stuff, converting 1.5 src to 1.4 . That was my 2 cents...
Hervé
-----Original Message-----
From: John Gill [mailto:llignhoj@gmail.com]
Sent: mardi 29 mai 2007 15:16
To: ivy-user@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: jdk version required (was Re: Extending IvyBuildList)
Well for one, it is "only" an ant plugin, so it's not like it is forcing
everyone to write their programs using generics, but it would mean they
would need java5 to run ANT/IVY. I think all they have to do in their ant
builds is specify the source and target attributes for the javac task to
specify what they are building. So if they want java 1.4 they can use
<javac source="1.4" target="1.4"... />
Maybe a snap poll of some kind to see if anyone would mind and what most of
the community is using.
What about other apache projects (ant, maven would be the main ones I
guess), have any of them moved to generics, or do you know if they plan to?
It really doesn't bother me that much if IVY stays on 1.4, but generics
makes a big difference to readability. There is nothing worse than a method
that returns a Collection, and you wonder "A collection of what?"
In the end though, if moving to 1.5 prevents moving to IVY, then it's
probably not a good idea.
On 5/29/07, Xavier Hanin <xa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On 5/29/07, John Gill <ll...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > No Generics!!! It makes the code so much cleaner... I wonder how many
> > developers are still stuck on 1.4 (Ivy/Ant/Maven users in particular)?
> > 1.4is two version behind the latest now...
>
>
> Indeed, this is something that can be discussed. It's been a long time
> since
> I don't use 1.4 myself, but it's difficult to estimate for the whole user
> community.
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> Xavier
>
> On 5/29/07, Xavier Hanin <xa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > Simple and interesting change, indeed, I think it doesn't hurt to open
> > an
> > > issue :). For the patch, the only thing is that we are jdk
> 1.4compliant,
> > > so
> > > the use of generics is prohibited.
> > >
> > > Xavier
> > >
> > > On 5/29/07, Jean-Baptiste Quenot <jb...@apache.org> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi Ivy,
> > > >
> > > > Thanks for providing this great API, and more particularly the
> > > > IvyBuildList Ant task that I extend to generate my Hudson
> > > > configuration files automatically for continuous build of my
> > > > project.
> > > >
> > > > I only had to slightly modify it to be able to get the list of
> > > > sorted modules, and the list of build files. See the attached
> > > > patch.
> > > >
> > > > NOTE: this patch is based on Ivy 1.4.1, but it should be possible
> > > > to do the same thing on trunk (the patch does not apply on trunk).
> > > >
> > > > If this change makes sense to you, I can file a JIRA issue.
> > > >
> > > > WDYT?
> > > > --
> > > > Jean-Baptiste Quenot
> > > > aka John Banana Qwerty
> > > > http://caraldi.com/jbq/
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Xavier Hanin - Independent Java Consultant
> > > Manage your dependencies with Ivy!
> > > http://incubator.apache.org/ivy/
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Regards,
> > John Gill
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Xavier Hanin - Independent Java Consultant
> Manage your dependencies with Ivy!
> http://incubator.apache.org/ivy/
>
--
Regards,
John Gill
Re: jdk version required (was Re: Extending IvyBuildList)
Posted by John Gill <ll...@gmail.com>.
Well for one, it is "only" an ant plugin, so it's not like it is forcing
everyone to write their programs using generics, but it would mean they
would need java5 to run ANT/IVY. I think all they have to do in their ant
builds is specify the source and target attributes for the javac task to
specify what they are building. So if they want java 1.4 they can use
<javac source="1.4" target="1.4"... />
Maybe a snap poll of some kind to see if anyone would mind and what most of
the community is using.
What about other apache projects (ant, maven would be the main ones I
guess), have any of them moved to generics, or do you know if they plan to?
It really doesn't bother me that much if IVY stays on 1.4, but generics
makes a big difference to readability. There is nothing worse than a method
that returns a Collection, and you wonder "A collection of what?"
In the end though, if moving to 1.5 prevents moving to IVY, then it's
probably not a good idea.
On 5/29/07, Xavier Hanin <xa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On 5/29/07, John Gill <ll...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > No Generics!!! It makes the code so much cleaner... I wonder how many
> > developers are still stuck on 1.4 (Ivy/Ant/Maven users in particular)?
> > 1.4is two version behind the latest now...
>
>
> Indeed, this is something that can be discussed. It's been a long time
> since
> I don't use 1.4 myself, but it's difficult to estimate for the whole user
> community.
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> Xavier
>
> On 5/29/07, Xavier Hanin <xa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > Simple and interesting change, indeed, I think it doesn't hurt to open
> > an
> > > issue :). For the patch, the only thing is that we are jdk
> 1.4compliant,
> > > so
> > > the use of generics is prohibited.
> > >
> > > Xavier
> > >
> > > On 5/29/07, Jean-Baptiste Quenot <jb...@apache.org> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi Ivy,
> > > >
> > > > Thanks for providing this great API, and more particularly the
> > > > IvyBuildList Ant task that I extend to generate my Hudson
> > > > configuration files automatically for continuous build of my
> > > > project.
> > > >
> > > > I only had to slightly modify it to be able to get the list of
> > > > sorted modules, and the list of build files. See the attached
> > > > patch.
> > > >
> > > > NOTE: this patch is based on Ivy 1.4.1, but it should be possible
> > > > to do the same thing on trunk (the patch does not apply on trunk).
> > > >
> > > > If this change makes sense to you, I can file a JIRA issue.
> > > >
> > > > WDYT?
> > > > --
> > > > Jean-Baptiste Quenot
> > > > aka John Banana Qwerty
> > > > http://caraldi.com/jbq/
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Xavier Hanin - Independent Java Consultant
> > > Manage your dependencies with Ivy!
> > > http://incubator.apache.org/ivy/
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Regards,
> > John Gill
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Xavier Hanin - Independent Java Consultant
> Manage your dependencies with Ivy!
> http://incubator.apache.org/ivy/
>
--
Regards,
John Gill
Re: jdk version required (was Re: Extending IvyBuildList)
Posted by Xavier Hanin <xa...@gmail.com>.
On 5/29/07, Gilles Scokart <gs...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> I think there are still project working on 1.4 (I know at least one
> real-life project that is still hesitating). But most of them could
> probably be able to build using a 1.5 jre.
>
> However, I think that it is better to have a code fully in 1.4 than a code
> partially in 1.4 and partially in 1.5. And migrating is a heavy task.
+1, migrating is a huge task
Also, even the migration should not be issue for most ivy users, there is
> may still a minority for which it might be.
>
> So, I'm not sure if it is something that has to be done. But if it is, it
> is certainly not a priority. We should first enhance the coding style
> (use
> of _ for instance).
Indeed.
Xavier
Gilles
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Xavier Hanin [mailto:xavier.hanin@gmail.com]
> > Sent: mardi 29 mai 2007 14:45
> > To: ivy-user@incubator.apache.org
> > Subject: jdk version required (was Re: Extending IvyBuildList)
> >
> > On 5/29/07, John Gill <ll...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > No Generics!!! It makes the code so much cleaner... I wonder how many
> > > developers are still stuck on 1.4 (Ivy/Ant/Maven users in particular)?
> > > 1.4is two version behind the latest now...
> >
> >
> > Indeed, this is something that can be discussed. It's been a long time
> > since
> > I don't use 1.4 myself, but it's difficult to estimate for the whole
> user
> > community.
> >
> > Any thoughts?
> >
> > Xavier
> >
> > On 5/29/07, Xavier Hanin <xa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi,
> > > >
> > > > Simple and interesting change, indeed, I think it doesn't hurt to
> open
> > > an
> > > > issue :). For the patch, the only thing is that we are jdk
> > 1.4compliant,
> > > > so
> > > > the use of generics is prohibited.
> > > >
> > > > Xavier
> > > >
> > > > On 5/29/07, Jean-Baptiste Quenot <jb...@apache.org> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi Ivy,
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks for providing this great API, and more particularly the
> > > > > IvyBuildList Ant task that I extend to generate my Hudson
> > > > > configuration files automatically for continuous build of my
> > > > > project.
> > > > >
> > > > > I only had to slightly modify it to be able to get the list of
> > > > > sorted modules, and the list of build files. See the attached
> > > > > patch.
> > > > >
> > > > > NOTE: this patch is based on Ivy 1.4.1, but it should be possible
> > > > > to do the same thing on trunk (the patch does not apply on trunk).
> > > > >
> > > > > If this change makes sense to you, I can file a JIRA issue.
> > > > >
> > > > > WDYT?
> > > > > --
> > > > > Jean-Baptiste Quenot
> > > > > aka John Banana Qwerty
> > > > > http://caraldi.com/jbq/
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Xavier Hanin - Independent Java Consultant
> > > > Manage your dependencies with Ivy!
> > > > http://incubator.apache.org/ivy/
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Regards,
> > > John Gill
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Xavier Hanin - Independent Java Consultant
> > Manage your dependencies with Ivy!
> > http://incubator.apache.org/ivy/
>
>
--
Xavier Hanin - Independent Java Consultant
Manage your dependencies with Ivy!
http://incubator.apache.org/ivy/
RE: jdk version required (was Re: Extending IvyBuildList)
Posted by Gilles Scokart <gs...@gmail.com>.
I think there are still project working on 1.4 (I know at least one
real-life project that is still hesitating). But most of them could
probably be able to build using a 1.5 jre.
However, I think that it is better to have a code fully in 1.4 than a code
partially in 1.4 and partially in 1.5. And migrating is a heavy task.
Also, even the migration should not be issue for most ivy users, there is
may still a minority for which it might be.
So, I'm not sure if it is something that has to be done. But if it is, it
is certainly not a priority. We should first enhance the coding style (use
of _ for instance).
Gilles
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Xavier Hanin [mailto:xavier.hanin@gmail.com]
> Sent: mardi 29 mai 2007 14:45
> To: ivy-user@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: jdk version required (was Re: Extending IvyBuildList)
>
> On 5/29/07, John Gill <ll...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > No Generics!!! It makes the code so much cleaner... I wonder how many
> > developers are still stuck on 1.4 (Ivy/Ant/Maven users in particular)?
> > 1.4is two version behind the latest now...
>
>
> Indeed, this is something that can be discussed. It's been a long time
> since
> I don't use 1.4 myself, but it's difficult to estimate for the whole user
> community.
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> Xavier
>
> On 5/29/07, Xavier Hanin <xa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > Simple and interesting change, indeed, I think it doesn't hurt to open
> > an
> > > issue :). For the patch, the only thing is that we are jdk
> 1.4compliant,
> > > so
> > > the use of generics is prohibited.
> > >
> > > Xavier
> > >
> > > On 5/29/07, Jean-Baptiste Quenot <jb...@apache.org> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi Ivy,
> > > >
> > > > Thanks for providing this great API, and more particularly the
> > > > IvyBuildList Ant task that I extend to generate my Hudson
> > > > configuration files automatically for continuous build of my
> > > > project.
> > > >
> > > > I only had to slightly modify it to be able to get the list of
> > > > sorted modules, and the list of build files. See the attached
> > > > patch.
> > > >
> > > > NOTE: this patch is based on Ivy 1.4.1, but it should be possible
> > > > to do the same thing on trunk (the patch does not apply on trunk).
> > > >
> > > > If this change makes sense to you, I can file a JIRA issue.
> > > >
> > > > WDYT?
> > > > --
> > > > Jean-Baptiste Quenot
> > > > aka John Banana Qwerty
> > > > http://caraldi.com/jbq/
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Xavier Hanin - Independent Java Consultant
> > > Manage your dependencies with Ivy!
> > > http://incubator.apache.org/ivy/
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Regards,
> > John Gill
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Xavier Hanin - Independent Java Consultant
> Manage your dependencies with Ivy!
> http://incubator.apache.org/ivy/