You are viewing a plain text version of this content. The canonical link for it is here.
Posted to dev@commons.apache.org by cm...@yahoo.com on 2002/08/30 07:33:40 UTC
Jelly/jexl/velocity/bsf/jxpath/jsp-el ?
Is there any relation among those acronyms ? I know BSF is intended as
an API for pluggable languages and expression evaluators, it seems
jelly is more about tags ( but also have some EL plugability ).
JEXL seems very similar with velocity for the EL part - are they
identical as language ? Is JEXL a superset of velocity EL and
jsp EL ?
Same for jxpath - is it somehow integrated in this ?
Are BSF wrappers planned for any, or are plans to duplicate bsf
in a different project ?
Does anyone knows what's going on ?
Costin
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
For additional commands, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
Re: Jelly/jexl/velocity/bsf/jxpath/jsp-el ?
Posted by co...@covalent.net.
On Fri, 30 Aug 2002, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
> > I'm still digesting the informations and the new languages, but
> > in case BSF does eventually get into Apache I would really want
> > a clear explanation on why BSF doesn't work and why BSF can't be
> > fixed to support what is needed.
>
> I thought BSF was in...
Where ? There is a jakarta-bsf dir, but empty. And couldn't find any
list or commiters.
Sam ?
Costin
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
For additional commands, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
Re: Jelly/jexl/velocity/bsf/jxpath/jsp-el ?
Posted by "Geir Magnusson Jr." <ge...@optonline.net>.
On 8/30/02 3:06 PM, "costinm@covalent.net" <co...@covalent.net> wrote:
> On Fri, 30 Aug 2002, James Strachan wrote:
>
>>> Are BSF wrappers planned for any, or are plans to duplicate bsf
>>> in a different project ?
>>
>> Jexl could implement BSF wrappers I guess. Though BSF didn't look ideal for
>> an 'expression evaluator API' last time I looked. I did try to use that as
>> the plugin API for expression languages in Jelly but found it less than
>> ideal. BSF is more focussed scripts, rather than little expressions.
>>
>> It might be nice if we come up with some simple API to represent expression
>> languages to make them all pluggable.
>
> I'm still digesting the informations and the new languages, but
> in case BSF does eventually get into Apache I would really want
> a clear explanation on why BSF doesn't work and why BSF can't be
> fixed to support what is needed.
I thought BSF was in...
--
Geir Magnusson Jr.
Research & Development, Adeptra Inc.
geirm@adeptra.com
+1-203-247-1713
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
For additional commands, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
Re: Jelly/jexl/velocity/bsf/jxpath/jsp-el ?
Posted by Dmitri Plotnikov <dp...@yahoo.com>.
Costin,
--- costinm@covalent.net wrote:
> On Fri, 30 Aug 2002, James Strachan wrote:
>
> > > Are BSF wrappers planned for any, or are plans to duplicate bsf
> > > in a different project ?
> >
> > Jexl could implement BSF wrappers I guess. Though BSF didn't look
> ideal for
> > an 'expression evaluator API' last time I looked. I did try to use
> that as
> > the plugin API for expression languages in Jelly but found it less
> than
> > ideal. BSF is more focussed scripts, rather than little
> expressions.
> >
> > It might be nice if we come up with some simple API to represent
> expression
> > languages to make them all pluggable.
>
> I'm still digesting the informations and the new languages, but
> in case BSF does eventually get into Apache I would really want
> a clear explanation on why BSF doesn't work and why BSF can't be
> fixed to support what is needed.
>
> We have too many APIs - and BSF is already supported by several
> languages.
> At least I'm tired of new duplicated APIs.
>
> The reason I asked - I wanted to extend the ant PropertyInterceptor,
> and
> BSF seemed the easiest way to avoid writing a plugin for every
> language. But if every language starts defining it's own API for
> other languages to implement....
Also, look at JEX, which is a set of simple APIs for expression
language interpreters/compilers:
http://jakarta.apache.org/commons/sandbox/jex/overview.html
Even though Jex is designed specifically for expression languages,
while BSF is for scripting languages and is therefore more complex, BSF
is an established de facto standard and that's what makes it the API
set of choice. I see the point, especially if BSF is brought into
Apache anyway. I put all development of Jex on hold and started
working on a BSF adapter for JXPath. However, if there is support for
the idea of Jakarta's own set of APIs for expression languages, Jex
could perhaps serve as a starting point.
> Costin
- Dmitri
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes
http://finance.yahoo.com
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
For additional commands, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
Re: Jelly/jexl/velocity/bsf/jxpath/jsp-el ?
Posted by co...@covalent.net.
On Fri, 30 Aug 2002, James Strachan wrote:
> > Are BSF wrappers planned for any, or are plans to duplicate bsf
> > in a different project ?
>
> Jexl could implement BSF wrappers I guess. Though BSF didn't look ideal for
> an 'expression evaluator API' last time I looked. I did try to use that as
> the plugin API for expression languages in Jelly but found it less than
> ideal. BSF is more focussed scripts, rather than little expressions.
>
> It might be nice if we come up with some simple API to represent expression
> languages to make them all pluggable.
I'm still digesting the informations and the new languages, but
in case BSF does eventually get into Apache I would really want
a clear explanation on why BSF doesn't work and why BSF can't be
fixed to support what is needed.
We have too many APIs - and BSF is already supported by several languages.
At least I'm tired of new duplicated APIs.
The reason I asked - I wanted to extend the ant PropertyInterceptor, and
BSF seemed the easiest way to avoid writing a plugin for every
language. But if every language starts defining it's own API for
other languages to implement....
Costin
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
For additional commands, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
Re: Jelly/jexl/velocity/bsf/jxpath/jsp-el ?
Posted by "Geir Magnusson Jr." <ge...@optonline.net>.
On 8/30/02 1:52 PM, "James Strachan" <ja...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <cm...@yahoo.com>
>> Is there any relation among those acronyms ?
>
> Kinda :)
>
> Jexl is an implementation of the JSP-EL with some Velocity features added
> for good measure. So its a superset of the JSP-EL.
>
>
>> I know BSF is intended as
>> an API for pluggable languages and expression evaluators, it seems
>> jelly is more about tags ( but also have some EL plugability ).
>
> Jelly is an XML based processing/scripting engine. So its a bit like an
> XML-ercied Velocity, or a more flexible/scripty front end to Ant, or a
> simplified version of JSP custom tags that can be used in your build/testing
> system. I've gotta come up with a simpler meme to describe what it is though
> ;-)
>
Anything will beat 'XML-ercied'.
> So in terms of Jexl, Jelly adds the directives in XML, as well as supporting
> other expression languages like XPath, BSF, beanshell etc.
>
>
>> JEXL seems very similar with velocity for the EL part - are they
>> identical as language ?
>
> Its very similar.
>
>> Is JEXL a superset of velocity EL and
>> jsp EL ?
>
> Just about yes, I think. Geir, is this correct? There could be a couple of
> diversions from velocity syntax maybe.
A couple. There is no '$' requirement, as that was needed to indicate the
start of a reference. Jexl imposes no conditions like that.
The main thing from velocity is the notion of unfettered access to public
methods of an object. The introspection code is now decoupled, so you will
see other things added, like access to public statics and even public
members, something we don't let you do in Vel because is lousy form :)
>
>
>> Same for jxpath - is it somehow integrated in this ?
>
> Thats a seperate thing altogether, its Dmitri's XPath engine.
>
>
>> Are BSF wrappers planned for any, or are plans to duplicate bsf
>> in a different project ?
>
> Jexl could implement BSF wrappers I guess. Though BSF didn't look ideal for
> an 'expression evaluator API' last time I looked. I did try to use that as
> the plugin API for expression languages in Jelly but found it less than
> ideal. BSF is more focussed scripts, rather than little expressions.
And Jexl will extend to scripting, so you can do
foreach(I in listobject) { <statement>; }
If you want...
Might make it a 'new' API in Jexl to keep the expression support clean.
--
Geir Magnusson Jr.
Research & Development, Adeptra Inc.
geirm@adeptra.com
+1-203-247-1713
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
For additional commands, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
Re: Jelly/jexl/velocity/bsf/jxpath/jsp-el ?
Posted by James Strachan <ja...@yahoo.co.uk>.
----- Original Message -----
From: <cm...@yahoo.com>
> Is there any relation among those acronyms ?
Kinda :)
Jexl is an implementation of the JSP-EL with some Velocity features added
for good measure. So its a superset of the JSP-EL.
> I know BSF is intended as
> an API for pluggable languages and expression evaluators, it seems
> jelly is more about tags ( but also have some EL plugability ).
Jelly is an XML based processing/scripting engine. So its a bit like an
XML-ercied Velocity, or a more flexible/scripty front end to Ant, or a
simplified version of JSP custom tags that can be used in your build/testing
system. I've gotta come up with a simpler meme to describe what it is though
;-)
So in terms of Jexl, Jelly adds the directives in XML, as well as supporting
other expression languages like XPath, BSF, beanshell etc.
> JEXL seems very similar with velocity for the EL part - are they
> identical as language ?
Its very similar.
> Is JEXL a superset of velocity EL and
> jsp EL ?
Just about yes, I think. Geir, is this correct? There could be a couple of
diversions from velocity syntax maybe.
> Same for jxpath - is it somehow integrated in this ?
Thats a seperate thing altogether, its Dmitri's XPath engine.
> Are BSF wrappers planned for any, or are plans to duplicate bsf
> in a different project ?
Jexl could implement BSF wrappers I guess. Though BSF didn't look ideal for
an 'expression evaluator API' last time I looked. I did try to use that as
the plugin API for expression languages in Jelly but found it less than
ideal. BSF is more focussed scripts, rather than little expressions.
It might be nice if we come up with some simple API to represent expression
languages to make them all pluggable.
Right now Jelly uses this abstraction for expressions...
http://jakarta.apache.org/commons/sandbox/jelly/apidocs/org/apache/commons/j
elly/expression/package-summary.html
There's adapters to beanshell, BSF as well...
http://jakarta.apache.org/commons/sandbox/jelly/apidocs/org/apache/commons/j
elly/tags/beanshell/package-summary.html
http://jakarta.apache.org/commons/sandbox/jelly/apidocs/org/apache/commons/j
elly/tags/bsf/package-summary.html
This stuff could be refactored if there's a need to share stuff across
expression languages.
> Does anyone knows what's going on ?
Almost :-)
James
-------
http://radio.weblogs.com/0112098/
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Everything you'll ever need on one web page
from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
http://uk.my.yahoo.com
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
For additional commands, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
Re: Jelly/jexl/velocity/bsf/jxpath/jsp-el ?
Posted by "Geir Magnusson Jr." <ge...@optonline.net>.
On 8/30/02 1:33 AM, "cmanolache@yahoo.com" <cm...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Is there any relation among those acronyms ?
Great question :)
Jelly was first, and Jexl was chosen instead of JEL because I didn't want to
step on Jelly's toes, I think JEL was too presumptuous, and my (our) warped
sense of humor thought the combination of Jelly and Jexl expressed as JE*L*
was a funny riff on JAX*
>I know BSF is intended as
> an API for pluggable languages and expression evaluators, it seems
> jelly is more about tags ( but also have some EL plugability ).
> JEXL seems very similar with velocity for the EL part - are they
> identical as language ? Is JEXL a superset of velocity EL and
> jsp EL ?
I answered this in my response to James' post.
> Same for jxpath - is it somehow integrated in this ?
>
> Are BSF wrappers planned for any, or are plans to duplicate bsf
> in a different project ?
>
> Does anyone knows what's going on ?
That's a thread unto itself :)
--
Geir Magnusson Jr.
Research & Development, Adeptra Inc.
geirm@adeptra.com
+1-203-247-1713
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
For additional commands, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>