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Posted to general@incubator.apache.org by Alex Porcelli <po...@apache.org> on 2024/03/05 16:51:47 UTC
Request for Temporary Exception for LGPL Dependency in Apache KIE Podling
Dear Members of the Apache Incubator,
I hope this email finds you well. My name is Alex Porcelli, and I am
part of the Apache KIE podling community [1]. I am reaching out to
discuss a matter regarding a dependency we have under LGPL, which
falls under Category X according to Apache guidelines.
The dependency is Hibernate ORM [2], the only supported JPA provider
for Quarkus [3] - the primary runtime provider for Apache KIE podling.
However, I'd like to emphasize the urgency of our situation. Our
community has dedicated substantial effort over the past six months to
prepare for our initial Apache release. Unfortunately, this delay in
releasing Apache KIE is unprecedented for this community, and it is
critical for us to deliver new releases promptly. Not only does our
large user base eagerly anticipate a new release, but older versions
may also pose security vulnerabilities (CVEs). Additionally, with our
previous release process through Red Hat decommissioned, Apache now
stands as our sole means of distribution.
Given these circumstances, I kindly ask the Apache Incubator to
consider granting us a temporary exception to maintain the LGPL
dependency for our initial releases. We understand the importance of
adhering to Apache licensing requirements and are willing to make
necessary adjustments while ensuring compliance. However, we believe
that allowing us to proceed with proper disclaimers in place would
enable us to maintain momentum and meet the expectations of our user
community.
Furthermore, I would like to inform you that the Hibernate team is in
the process of relicensing from LGPL to ASLv3, as indicated in their
recent blog post [4]. This transition aligns with our long-term goals
and demonstrates our commitment to compliance with Apache guidelines.
We are open to any guidance or suggestions from the Incubator PMC on
how best to proceed.
Thank you for considering our request.
Best regards,
Alex Porcelli
Apache KIE Podling Community Member
[1] - Apache KIE: https://kie.apache.org/
[2] - Hibernate ORM: https://hibernate.org/orm/
[3] - Quarkus: https://quarkus.io/
[4] - Blog post on relicensing: https://in.relation.to/2023/11/18/license/
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Re: Request for Temporary Exception for LGPL Dependency in Apache KIE Podling
Posted by Jason Porter <li...@apache.org>.
tison,
We've talked with the Hibernate team, and Alex has been a Hibernate contributor. They've sent out emails to the list of contributors asking about switching. We don't have a firm date yet, as you know these things take time, but they are actively working on it.
On 2024/03/05 17:35:50 tison wrote:
> Thanks for reaching out Alex :D
>
> I agree with PJ and emphasize that we should highlight the license
> issue on release.
>
> Also, for others in this thread, the thorough solution described above is:
>
> > The Hibernate team is in the process of relicensing from LGPL to Apache License 2.0.
>
> To Alex:
>
> How much confidence do you have in this direction? Are you involved in
> this effort?
>
> What if the relicensing doesn't happen? Do you have an alternative plan?
>
> Best,
> tison.
>
> Alex Porcelli <po...@apache.org> 于2024年3月6日周三 01:25写道：
> >
> > Thank you PJ! This is very helpful!
> >
> > On Tue, Mar 5, 2024 at 12:23 PM PJ Fanning <fa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > https://incubator.apache.org/policy/incubation.html#disclaimers
> > >
> > > Have a look at the Disclaimers doc. If you use the WIP Disclaimer then you
> > > can do releases that are not fully ASF compliant. It would be good to
> > > document clearly about this dependency license issue.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Tue 5 Mar 2024, 17:53 Alex Porcelli, <po...@apache.org> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Dear Members of the Apache Incubator,
> > > >
> > > > I hope this email finds you well. My name is Alex Porcelli, and I am
> > > > part of the Apache KIE podling community [1]. I am reaching out to
> > > > discuss a matter regarding a dependency we have under LGPL, which
> > > > falls under Category X according to Apache guidelines.
> > > >
> > > > The dependency is Hibernate ORM [2], the only supported JPA provider
> > > > for Quarkus [3] - the primary runtime provider for Apache KIE podling.
> > > >
> > > > However, I'd like to emphasize the urgency of our situation. Our
> > > > community has dedicated substantial effort over the past six months to
> > > > prepare for our initial Apache release. Unfortunately, this delay in
> > > > releasing Apache KIE is unprecedented for this community, and it is
> > > > critical for us to deliver new releases promptly. Not only does our
> > > > large user base eagerly anticipate a new release, but older versions
> > > > may also pose security vulnerabilities (CVEs). Additionally, with our
> > > > previous release process through Red Hat decommissioned, Apache now
> > > > stands as our sole means of distribution.
> > > >
> > > > Given these circumstances, I kindly ask the Apache Incubator to
> > > > consider granting us a temporary exception to maintain the LGPL
> > > > dependency for our initial releases. We understand the importance of
> > > > adhering to Apache licensing requirements and are willing to make
> > > > necessary adjustments while ensuring compliance. However, we believe
> > > > that allowing us to proceed with proper disclaimers in place would
> > > > enable us to maintain momentum and meet the expectations of our user
> > > > community.
> > > >
> > > > Furthermore, I would like to inform you that the Hibernate team is in
> > > > the process of relicensing from LGPL to ASLv3, as indicated in their
> > > > recent blog post [4]. This transition aligns with our long-term goals
> > > > and demonstrates our commitment to compliance with Apache guidelines.
> > > >
> > > > We are open to any guidance or suggestions from the Incubator PMC on
> > > > how best to proceed.
> > > >
> > > > Thank you for considering our request.
> > > >
> > > > Best regards,
> > > > Alex Porcelli
> > > > Apache KIE Podling Community Member
> > > >
> > > > [1] - Apache KIE: https://kie.apache.org/
> > > > [2] - Hibernate ORM: https://hibernate.org/orm/
> > > > [3] - Quarkus: https://quarkus.io/
> > > > [4] - Blog post on relicensing: https://in.relation.to/2023/11/18/license/
> > > >
> > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> > > > For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> > > >
> > > >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> >
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>
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Re: Request for Temporary Exception for LGPL Dependency in Apache KIE Podling
Posted by Alex Porcelli <po...@apache.org>.
tison,
First and foremost, as a past Hibernate contributor with personal
relationship with Hibernate team members I’m very aware of this plan to
change license… and they are finally reaching a point that this has been
communicated in public :) - so I have a high level of confidence that the
team behind this is actively working on this…
But, relicensing is not simple… and we definitely should plan for the
situation that Hibernate just can’t do it. In this case, we have a few
options (non-exclusive):
- adjust API level to just JPA and hack around some tests using OpenJPA
- in case of core operations, that might be risky to use unsupported
library (ie. OpenJPA for Quarkus in a production code)… we can always go
back to JDBC.
So, we are not neglecting and are prepared to react in different ways.
On Tue, Mar 5, 2024 at 12:39 PM tison <wa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Thanks for reaching out Alex :D
>
> I agree with PJ and emphasize that we should highlight the license
> issue on release.
>
> Also, for others in this thread, the thorough solution described above is:
>
> > The Hibernate team is in the process of relicensing from LGPL to Apache
> License 2.0.
>
> To Alex:
>
> How much confidence do you have in this direction? Are you involved in
> this effort?
>
> What if the relicensing doesn't happen? Do you have an alternative plan?
>
> Best,
> tison.
>
> Alex Porcelli <po...@apache.org> 于2024年3月6日周三 01:25写道：
> >
> > Thank you PJ! This is very helpful!
> >
> > On Tue, Mar 5, 2024 at 12:23 PM PJ Fanning <fa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > https://incubator.apache.org/policy/incubation.html#disclaimers
> > >
> > > Have a look at the Disclaimers doc. If you use the WIP Disclaimer then
> you
> > > can do releases that are not fully ASF compliant. It would be good to
> > > document clearly about this dependency license issue.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Tue 5 Mar 2024, 17:53 Alex Porcelli, <po...@apache.org> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Dear Members of the Apache Incubator,
> > > >
> > > > I hope this email finds you well. My name is Alex Porcelli, and I am
> > > > part of the Apache KIE podling community [1]. I am reaching out to
> > > > discuss a matter regarding a dependency we have under LGPL, which
> > > > falls under Category X according to Apache guidelines.
> > > >
> > > > The dependency is Hibernate ORM [2], the only supported JPA provider
> > > > for Quarkus [3] - the primary runtime provider for Apache KIE
> podling.
> > > >
> > > > However, I'd like to emphasize the urgency of our situation. Our
> > > > community has dedicated substantial effort over the past six months
> to
> > > > prepare for our initial Apache release. Unfortunately, this delay in
> > > > releasing Apache KIE is unprecedented for this community, and it is
> > > > critical for us to deliver new releases promptly. Not only does our
> > > > large user base eagerly anticipate a new release, but older versions
> > > > may also pose security vulnerabilities (CVEs). Additionally, with our
> > > > previous release process through Red Hat decommissioned, Apache now
> > > > stands as our sole means of distribution.
> > > >
> > > > Given these circumstances, I kindly ask the Apache Incubator to
> > > > consider granting us a temporary exception to maintain the LGPL
> > > > dependency for our initial releases. We understand the importance of
> > > > adhering to Apache licensing requirements and are willing to make
> > > > necessary adjustments while ensuring compliance. However, we believe
> > > > that allowing us to proceed with proper disclaimers in place would
> > > > enable us to maintain momentum and meet the expectations of our user
> > > > community.
> > > >
> > > > Furthermore, I would like to inform you that the Hibernate team is in
> > > > the process of relicensing from LGPL to ASLv3, as indicated in their
> > > > recent blog post [4]. This transition aligns with our long-term goals
> > > > and demonstrates our commitment to compliance with Apache guidelines.
> > > >
> > > > We are open to any guidance or suggestions from the Incubator PMC on
> > > > how best to proceed.
> > > >
> > > > Thank you for considering our request.
> > > >
> > > > Best regards,
> > > > Alex Porcelli
> > > > Apache KIE Podling Community Member
> > > >
> > > > [1] - Apache KIE: https://kie.apache.org/
> > > > [2] - Hibernate ORM: https://hibernate.org/orm/
> > > > [3] - Quarkus: https://quarkus.io/
> > > > [4] - Blog post on relicensing:
> https://in.relation.to/2023/11/18/license/
> > > >
> > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> > > > For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> > > >
> > > >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> >
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>
Re: Request for Temporary Exception for LGPL Dependency in Apache KIE Podling
Posted by tison <wa...@gmail.com>.
Thanks for reaching out Alex :D
I agree with PJ and emphasize that we should highlight the license
issue on release.
Also, for others in this thread, the thorough solution described above is:
> The Hibernate team is in the process of relicensing from LGPL to Apache License 2.0.
To Alex:
How much confidence do you have in this direction? Are you involved in
this effort?
What if the relicensing doesn't happen? Do you have an alternative plan?
Best,
tison.
Alex Porcelli <po...@apache.org> 于2024年3月6日周三 01:25写道：
>
> Thank you PJ! This is very helpful!
>
> On Tue, Mar 5, 2024 at 12:23 PM PJ Fanning <fa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > https://incubator.apache.org/policy/incubation.html#disclaimers
> >
> > Have a look at the Disclaimers doc. If you use the WIP Disclaimer then you
> > can do releases that are not fully ASF compliant. It would be good to
> > document clearly about this dependency license issue.
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tue 5 Mar 2024, 17:53 Alex Porcelli, <po...@apache.org> wrote:
> >
> > > Dear Members of the Apache Incubator,
> > >
> > > I hope this email finds you well. My name is Alex Porcelli, and I am
> > > part of the Apache KIE podling community [1]. I am reaching out to
> > > discuss a matter regarding a dependency we have under LGPL, which
> > > falls under Category X according to Apache guidelines.
> > >
> > > The dependency is Hibernate ORM [2], the only supported JPA provider
> > > for Quarkus [3] - the primary runtime provider for Apache KIE podling.
> > >
> > > However, I'd like to emphasize the urgency of our situation. Our
> > > community has dedicated substantial effort over the past six months to
> > > prepare for our initial Apache release. Unfortunately, this delay in
> > > releasing Apache KIE is unprecedented for this community, and it is
> > > critical for us to deliver new releases promptly. Not only does our
> > > large user base eagerly anticipate a new release, but older versions
> > > may also pose security vulnerabilities (CVEs). Additionally, with our
> > > previous release process through Red Hat decommissioned, Apache now
> > > stands as our sole means of distribution.
> > >
> > > Given these circumstances, I kindly ask the Apache Incubator to
> > > consider granting us a temporary exception to maintain the LGPL
> > > dependency for our initial releases. We understand the importance of
> > > adhering to Apache licensing requirements and are willing to make
> > > necessary adjustments while ensuring compliance. However, we believe
> > > that allowing us to proceed with proper disclaimers in place would
> > > enable us to maintain momentum and meet the expectations of our user
> > > community.
> > >
> > > Furthermore, I would like to inform you that the Hibernate team is in
> > > the process of relicensing from LGPL to ASLv3, as indicated in their
> > > recent blog post [4]. This transition aligns with our long-term goals
> > > and demonstrates our commitment to compliance with Apache guidelines.
> > >
> > > We are open to any guidance or suggestions from the Incubator PMC on
> > > how best to proceed.
> > >
> > > Thank you for considering our request.
> > >
> > > Best regards,
> > > Alex Porcelli
> > > Apache KIE Podling Community Member
> > >
> > > [1] - Apache KIE: https://kie.apache.org/
> > > [2] - Hibernate ORM: https://hibernate.org/orm/
> > > [3] - Quarkus: https://quarkus.io/
> > > [4] - Blog post on relicensing: https://in.relation.to/2023/11/18/license/
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> > >
> > >
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
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Re: Request for Temporary Exception for LGPL Dependency in Apache KIE Podling
Posted by Alex Porcelli <po...@apache.org>.
Thank you PJ! This is very helpful!
On Tue, Mar 5, 2024 at 12:23 PM PJ Fanning <fa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> https://incubator.apache.org/policy/incubation.html#disclaimers
>
> Have a look at the Disclaimers doc. If you use the WIP Disclaimer then you
> can do releases that are not fully ASF compliant. It would be good to
> document clearly about this dependency license issue.
>
>
>
> On Tue 5 Mar 2024, 17:53 Alex Porcelli, <po...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> > Dear Members of the Apache Incubator,
> >
> > I hope this email finds you well. My name is Alex Porcelli, and I am
> > part of the Apache KIE podling community [1]. I am reaching out to
> > discuss a matter regarding a dependency we have under LGPL, which
> > falls under Category X according to Apache guidelines.
> >
> > The dependency is Hibernate ORM [2], the only supported JPA provider
> > for Quarkus [3] - the primary runtime provider for Apache KIE podling.
> >
> > However, I'd like to emphasize the urgency of our situation. Our
> > community has dedicated substantial effort over the past six months to
> > prepare for our initial Apache release. Unfortunately, this delay in
> > releasing Apache KIE is unprecedented for this community, and it is
> > critical for us to deliver new releases promptly. Not only does our
> > large user base eagerly anticipate a new release, but older versions
> > may also pose security vulnerabilities (CVEs). Additionally, with our
> > previous release process through Red Hat decommissioned, Apache now
> > stands as our sole means of distribution.
> >
> > Given these circumstances, I kindly ask the Apache Incubator to
> > consider granting us a temporary exception to maintain the LGPL
> > dependency for our initial releases. We understand the importance of
> > adhering to Apache licensing requirements and are willing to make
> > necessary adjustments while ensuring compliance. However, we believe
> > that allowing us to proceed with proper disclaimers in place would
> > enable us to maintain momentum and meet the expectations of our user
> > community.
> >
> > Furthermore, I would like to inform you that the Hibernate team is in
> > the process of relicensing from LGPL to ASLv3, as indicated in their
> > recent blog post [4]. This transition aligns with our long-term goals
> > and demonstrates our commitment to compliance with Apache guidelines.
> >
> > We are open to any guidance or suggestions from the Incubator PMC on
> > how best to proceed.
> >
> > Thank you for considering our request.
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Alex Porcelli
> > Apache KIE Podling Community Member
> >
> > [1] - Apache KIE: https://kie.apache.org/
> > [2] - Hibernate ORM: https://hibernate.org/orm/
> > [3] - Quarkus: https://quarkus.io/
> > [4] - Blog post on relicensing: https://in.relation.to/2023/11/18/license/
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> >
> >
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Re: Request for Temporary Exception for LGPL Dependency in Apache KIE Podling
Posted by PJ Fanning <fa...@gmail.com>.
https://incubator.apache.org/policy/incubation.html#disclaimers
Have a look at the Disclaimers doc. If you use the WIP Disclaimer then you
can do releases that are not fully ASF compliant. It would be good to
document clearly about this dependency license issue.
On Tue 5 Mar 2024, 17:53 Alex Porcelli, <po...@apache.org> wrote:
> Dear Members of the Apache Incubator,
>
> I hope this email finds you well. My name is Alex Porcelli, and I am
> part of the Apache KIE podling community [1]. I am reaching out to
> discuss a matter regarding a dependency we have under LGPL, which
> falls under Category X according to Apache guidelines.
>
> The dependency is Hibernate ORM [2], the only supported JPA provider
> for Quarkus [3] - the primary runtime provider for Apache KIE podling.
>
> However, I'd like to emphasize the urgency of our situation. Our
> community has dedicated substantial effort over the past six months to
> prepare for our initial Apache release. Unfortunately, this delay in
> releasing Apache KIE is unprecedented for this community, and it is
> critical for us to deliver new releases promptly. Not only does our
> large user base eagerly anticipate a new release, but older versions
> may also pose security vulnerabilities (CVEs). Additionally, with our
> previous release process through Red Hat decommissioned, Apache now
> stands as our sole means of distribution.
>
> Given these circumstances, I kindly ask the Apache Incubator to
> consider granting us a temporary exception to maintain the LGPL
> dependency for our initial releases. We understand the importance of
> adhering to Apache licensing requirements and are willing to make
> necessary adjustments while ensuring compliance. However, we believe
> that allowing us to proceed with proper disclaimers in place would
> enable us to maintain momentum and meet the expectations of our user
> community.
>
> Furthermore, I would like to inform you that the Hibernate team is in
> the process of relicensing from LGPL to ASLv3, as indicated in their
> recent blog post [4]. This transition aligns with our long-term goals
> and demonstrates our commitment to compliance with Apache guidelines.
>
> We are open to any guidance or suggestions from the Incubator PMC on
> how best to proceed.
>
> Thank you for considering our request.
>
> Best regards,
> Alex Porcelli
> Apache KIE Podling Community Member
>
> [1] - Apache KIE: https://kie.apache.org/
> [2] - Hibernate ORM: https://hibernate.org/orm/
> [3] - Quarkus: https://quarkus.io/
> [4] - Blog post on relicensing: https://in.relation.to/2023/11/18/license/
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>