Ivy or Maven2 (was Re: PoC StAX implementation of dispatcher)

[Ross Gardler <rg...@apache.org>]

Thorsten Scherler wrote:
> On Wed, 2007-01-24 at 13:53 +0000, Ross Gardler wrote:

...

> 
> I have not looked in Ivy but saw that you used it. I was thinking to
> switch the stax dispatcher to maven2.
> 
> What are the differences? Why you prefer Ivy to maven?
> 
> I ask out of curiosity.

The main difference is that IVY is nothing more than a dependency 
management tool, whereas Maven is a complete build management tool. Ivy 
does what it does very well, Maven, IMHO, tries to do too much.

IVY integrates really well with ANT and therefore allows the user to 
have control over the whole build process. Of course, Maven2 advocates 
would say that it too provides a high degree of control over how a 
project is structured etc. But I don't have Maven skills whereas I do 
have ANT skills.

Furthermore, our desk research showed that projects that were large 
and/or different from a standard Maven2 project had difficulties making 
things work. Look at the mess Cocoon got into with Maven2. This may be 
the same lack of skills issue, or it may be fundamental problems with 
Maven2, not having actually used Maven2 I can't claim to know which it is.

Finally, Ivy works, and it works well for me. I now have a set of 
"standard" ant script that I use for every IVY+ANT project. I intend to 
give these to the IVY project, but am still waiting for the CCLA to be 
signed etc. These scripts allow the quick, and easy creation of a 
"standard" project, but being ANT scripts there is loads of opportunity 
for customisation by ANT skilled people.

There is no need to install IVY to use it with these scripts, they do 
that for you (assuming you have ANT installed).

Is IVY+ANT better than Maven? My desk research says yes, but I have 
never done anything in Maven, so I can't support this from experience. 
All I know is I am sticking with IVY+ANT in my own work because I'm 
happy with it.

What we do here in Forrest should be discussed.

Ross

Re: Ivy or Maven2 (was Re: PoC StAX implementation of dispatcher)

[Ross Gardler <rg...@apache.org>]

C.Grobmeier wrote:
> Hi,
> 
>> Is IVY+ANT better than Maven? My desk research says yes, but I have
>> never done anything in Maven, so I can't support this from experience.
>> All I know is I am sticking with IVY+ANT in my own work because I'm
>> happy with it.
> 
> i have expierences in maven and in ant. I didn't try ivy at the moment. But i figured out, that it's hard to build with maven when i have special requirements. It needs lots time to configure everything you want and in my opinion maven has two benefits: dependency management,the documentation stuff and the easy integration of metric reports.
> 
> Dependency management can be done by ivy. It sounded like ivy is quite cool and easy for this. I am really eager to see ivy in action.
> 
> Documentation in forrest will be done in forrest. I think there is no discussion.
> 
> Metric reports: it's possible to do this in ant too. Maybe it's more work here, but i don't think it's too hard.

Most of the decent metrics applications have ANT plugins so no problem 
there. Furthermore, Forrest is about content integration so getting the 
outputs of those plugins in our site should not be hard, but more work 
than with Maven that does it out of the box.

> Forrest is more complex to build than a standard day-life project. If i could decide i would go the ant/ivy way too and maybe borrow some ideas of maven where possible.
> 
> Just my 2 pence :-)

Thanks.

Ross

Re: Ivy or Maven2 (was Re: PoC StAX implementation of dispatcher)

[Thorsten Scherler <th...@apache.org>]

On Thu, 2007-01-25 at 13:19 +0100, C.Grobmeier wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> >Is IVY+ANT better than Maven? My desk research says yes, but I have
> >never done anything in Maven, so I can't support this from experience.
> >All I know is I am sticking with IVY+ANT in my own work because I'm
> >happy with it.

Thanks Ross for sharing your research.

> 
> i have expierences in maven and in ant. 

I more with ant then maven2. I worked as well a bit with maven1.

> I didn't try ivy at the moment. 

me neither.

> But i figured out, that it's hard to build with maven when i have special requirements. 

One think I really hate on maven is the properties system. I love the
local.build.properties override style in ant and with maven that means
always headaches. I agree with you Chris. 

> It needs lots time to configure everything you want

totally agreed. 

>  and in my opinion maven has two benefits: dependency management,the documentation stuff and the easy integration of metric reports.
> 
> Dependency management can be done by ivy. It sounded like ivy is quite cool and easy for this. I am really eager to see ivy in action.
> 

me too.

> Documentation in forrest will be done in forrest. I think there is no discussion.

eat your own dog food.

> 
> Metric reports: it's possible to do this in ant too. Maybe it's more work here, but i don't think it's too hard.

yes

> 
> Forrest is more complex to build than a standard day-life project. If i could decide i would go the ant/ivy way too and maybe borrow some ideas of maven where possible.

I need to look into ivy, sounds it does one think and this very well. I
like that. Maven is more the complete package that you hardly ever need
together.

> 
> Just my 2 pence :-)

Thanks for the feedback.

salu2
 
> cheers,
> Chris
> 
> 
-- 
thorsten

"Together we stand, divided we fall!" 
Hey you (Pink Floyd)

Re: Ivy or Maven2 (was Re: PoC StAX implementation of dispatcher)

["C.Grobmeier" <gr...@possessed.de>]

Hi,

>Is IVY+ANT better than Maven? My desk research says yes, but I have
>never done anything in Maven, so I can't support this from experience.
>All I know is I am sticking with IVY+ANT in my own work because I'm
>happy with it.

i have expierences in maven and in ant. I didn't try ivy at the moment. But i figured out, that it's hard to build with maven when i have special requirements. It needs lots time to configure everything you want and in my opinion maven has two benefits: dependency management,the documentation stuff and the easy integration of metric reports.

Dependency management can be done by ivy. It sounded like ivy is quite cool and easy for this. I am really eager to see ivy in action.

Documentation in forrest will be done in forrest. I think there is no discussion.

Metric reports: it's possible to do this in ant too. Maybe it's more work here, but i don't think it's too hard.

Forrest is more complex to build than a standard day-life project. If i could decide i would go the ant/ivy way too and maybe borrow some ideas of maven where possible.

Just my 2 pence :-)
cheers,
Chris