[2.2] consider me inactive

[Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>]

Hi Cocoonistas,

The recent lack of response to Grzegorz messages about 2.2 prompted me
to write this clarification: although I still care for Cocoon as a
project, and I'm still (part-time) helping people maintain some 2.1.x
apps that I wrote in the last few years, I have completely lost track
with 2.2.

If 2.1.x and 2.2 were distinct projects, I'd step down for the 2.2
one, as I'll probably not be using it in the foreseeable future, and
my lack of knowledge about it makes it impossible for me to vote on
technical issues, releases etc.

I'm still following the dev and private lists, and will continue to do
so for the time being.

I hope this statement helps those working on 2.2 cope with the lack of
responses in many of their discussions and votes: I wouldn't be
surprised if several other committers are in the same case, lacking
knowledge about 2.2 to actively participate, and without a real need
for it at the moment.

-Bertrand

Re: [2.2] consider me inactive

[Marc Portier <mp...@outerthought.org>]

Grzegorz Kossakowski wrote:
> Vadim, I remember that I have not responded to your e-mail regarding 
> services:
> http://article.gmane.org/gmane.text.xml.cocoon.devel/73790
> 
> I knew that you are talking about REST-style services and I didn't know 
> much more than standard hype about REST design but I was just about 
> borrowing "RESTful Web Services" book from our local JUG leader at the 
> time. Now, I almost completed the book and can give insightful 
> clarification on cocoon-servlet-service-fw vs RESTful architecture and 
> methodology. Where are similarities and where are not.
> 
> I have written some bits of such document but I've just got to know that 
> I have to leave and stay offline until Sunday so I'll probably publish 
> it on Monday and everyone will (hopefully) get a chance to understand 
> what is a scope of servlet-service-fw despite the functionality is 
> actually in there or is just planned.
> 

Gregorz: I'm looking forward to that read.

I'm reading through the RWS book as well currently and got pulled to the 
restlet.org framework as a basis for resource oriented architectures.

Pretty mind-opening stuff (the book and the framework) and I really 
think there are quite some lessons / opportunities to gain from there.

On the client side the ajax patterns book (http://ajaxpatterns.org/Book) 
plays the equivalent role according to me (although maybe in a lesser 
way then RWS) As it lists some common concepts and strategies for 
building RIA's.

With both movements (ROA/RIA) at full speed I think cocoon 2.1 but even 
2.2 (afaik it) is pretty close to be eternally marked as a clear altough 
stubbornly deviant sample of 'the middle-ages of web app writing' 
(marked by web browser wars and a philosophical reign of essentially 
just the cgi model).

Uh: And _we_ should be close to finally understanding the prophetic 
powers of Stefano [1] :-)



Anyway "not being active" in web dev land is not an option IMHO. So the 
interesting question Bertrand is sneaking in here is "Where his/our 
activity is/should be pointed at nowadays?" :-)

Let's be honest: one can easily argue that there are better places to 
put activity in then in keeping compatibility and living up to the 
(ohoh) expectations of an ever declining number of users. (As Bertrand's 
post is suggesting: those are just fine with some maintenance work on 
the 2.1.x branch anyway)

If I'm missing anything in our 2.2. moves then it is a "clean slate" and 
some freshly burnt down bush and rainforest to start growing new ideas. 
  It feels (from some distance, I admit) as if we keep dragging our 
history with us, rather then only our witty experience.


As Stefano clearly stated almost 2 years ago: "It is time to move on". 
The biggest difference now is that there might be a bigger base of 
people ready to do so, and with a more clear view on 'where to'.

Maybe the upcoming GT could offer the platform to let different views on 
that 'where to' conflict?  I know we have a tendency of talking a lot 
and doing too little (me guilty) but I really think we can use a good 
thought-fight...


regards,
-marc= (who thinks that the worst thing lingering behind an inactive 
Bertrand is having to miss him speaking to us from the GT podium :-))

[1] http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.text.xml.cocoon.devel/55131

Re: [2.2] consider me inactive

[Vadim Gritsenko <va...@reverycodes.com>]

Grzegorz Kossakowski wrote:
> Vadim Gritsenko pisze:
>> If it helps... And if you are going to start any new project any time 
>> soon... Consider using 2.2 in "compatibility" mode. Basically, you can 
>> set it up to work exactly as 2.1, with the added benefits of Spring 
>> integration and so on. 
> 
> Vadim, what about writing such description independently from Bertrand 
> needs so our users could benefit?

Even better... I almost have a presentation - will be ready for GT.

Vadim

Re: [2.2] consider me inactive

[Grzegorz Kossakowski <gk...@apache.org>]

Vadim Gritsenko pisze:
> Bertrand Delacretaz wrote:
> 
> If it helps... And if you are going to start any new project any time 
> soon... Consider using 2.2 in "compatibility" mode. Basically, you can 
> set it up to work exactly as 2.1, with the added benefits of Spring 
> integration and so on. Here, we are using M3 snapshot configured like 
> this and it works out fine. I'm planning on updating to RC1 soon... Let 
> me know if you want to know more about such setup.

Vadim, what about writing such description independently from Bertrand needs so our users could benefit?

> 
> Yep, I'm not up to date on new services framework myself.

Vadim, I remember that I have not responded to your e-mail regarding services:
http://article.gmane.org/gmane.text.xml.cocoon.devel/73790

I knew that you are talking about REST-style services and I didn't know much more than standard hype about REST design but I was just about 
borrowing "RESTful Web Services" book from our local JUG leader at the time. Now, I almost completed the book and can give insightful 
clarification on cocoon-servlet-service-fw vs RESTful architecture and methodology. Where are similarities and where are not.

I have written some bits of such document but I've just got to know that I have to leave and stay offline until Sunday so I'll probably 
publish it on Monday and everyone will (hopefully) get a chance to understand what is a scope of servlet-service-fw despite the 
functionality is actually in there or is just planned.

-- 
Grzegorz Kossakowski
http://reflectingonthevicissitudes.wordpress.com/

Re: [2.2] consider me inactive

[Vadim Gritsenko <va...@reverycodes.com>]

Bertrand Delacretaz wrote:
> Hi Cocoonistas,

Hey Bertrand, :)


> The recent lack of response to Grzegorz messages about 2.2 prompted me
> to write this clarification: although I still care for Cocoon as a
> project, and I'm still (part-time) helping people maintain some 2.1.x
> apps that I wrote in the last few years, I have completely lost track
> with 2.2.

If it helps... And if you are going to start any new project any time soon... 
Consider using 2.2 in "compatibility" mode. Basically, you can set it up to work 
exactly as 2.1, with the added benefits of Spring integration and so on. Here, 
we are using M3 snapshot configured like this and it works out fine. I'm 
planning on updating to RC1 soon... Let me know if you want to know more about 
such setup.


> If 2.1.x and 2.2 were distinct projects, I'd step down for the 2.2
> one, as I'll probably not be using it in the foreseeable future, and
> my lack of knowledge about it makes it impossible for me to vote on
> technical issues, releases etc.
> 
> I'm still following the dev and private lists, and will continue to do
> so for the time being.
> 
> I hope this statement helps those working on 2.2 cope with the lack of
> responses in many of their discussions and votes: I wouldn't be
> surprised if several other committers are in the same case, lacking
> knowledge about 2.2 to actively participate, and without a real need
> for it at the moment.

Yep, I'm not up to date on new services framework myself.

Vadim