You are viewing a plain text version of this content. The canonical link for it is here.
Posted to dev@cordova.apache.org by Lisa Seacat DeLuca <ld...@us.ibm.com> on 2014/06/05 14:00:44 UTC
Re: Apache Cordova "Translated using Microsoft Bing Translation"...
Just following up on this. I haven't heard anyone from the Apache
trademarks team chime in with this new updated request. Please let me
know if there are any problems so I know whether I can move forward
working with Microsoft on enhancing our translation efforts for Apache
Cordova.
Thanks,
Lisa
Lisa Seacat DeLuca
Mobile Engineer | t: +415.787.4589 | ldeluca@apache.org | |
ldeluca@us.ibm.com | lisaseacat.com | |
From: Ross Gardler <rg...@opendirective.com>
To: "dev@cordova.apache.org" <de...@cordova.apache.org>
Cc: Lisa Seacat DeLuca/San Francisco/IBM@IBMUS, "Ross Gardler (MS OPEN
TECH)" <Ro...@microsoft.com>, "Olivier Bloch (MS OPEN TECH)"
<ob...@microsoft.com>, Apache Brand Management <tr...@apache.org>,
"Gianugo Rabellino (MS OPEN TECH)" <Gi...@microsoft.com>
Date: 05/30/2014 08:19 PM
Subject: Re: Apache Cordova "Translated using Microsoft Bing
Translation"...
Olivier,
The ASF cannot grant open ended authorization for the trademarks. However,
as long as a) the Cordova PMC are comfortable with the proposed use and b)
it confirmed with the ASF trademark policy then there should be no problem
with this.
So, for example, approval to use the Cordova logo in case study should be
fine. Reuse of the logo when presenting that case study should be fine
(again, assuming conformance with the ASF trademark policy).
On Fri, May 30, 2014 at 14:40 PM, Olivier Fontana <ol...@microsoft.com>
wrote:
Hi Cordova team,
In view of the limited volume requested we will waive the clause regarding
the use of the translation.
Therefore, the only requirements will be, as per our email exchange with
Lisa:
-
Attribution to the Microsoft Translator brand as per the description on
www.microsoft.com/Translator in the "Attribution"
menu
-
Apache Cordova team will provide Microsoft with the authorization to use
their logo as well as short text/sentence from their choosing that we will
be able to use for our marketing: website, customer presentations, etc.
Are we OK with this?
Thank you,
Olivier
<http://www.microsoft.com/translator/>
Olivier Fontana, Director of Product Marketing, Microsoft Translator
(t) +1 (425) 705-6555 | (m) +1 (425) 246-3128 |
olivierf@microsoft.com <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','alias@microsoft.com')
;>
www.microsoft.com/translator
[image: cid:image002.png@01CF4F32.60A85F40]
<https://www.facebook.com/bingtranslator>
<http://ww.twitter.com/mstranslator> <http://blogs.msdn.com/translation>
*From:* Lisa Seacat DeLuca [mailto:ldeluca@us.ibm.com
<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','ldeluca@us.ibm.com');>]
*Sent:* Thursday, May 29, 2014 13:41
*To:* dev@cordova.apache.org
<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','dev@cordova.apache.org');>
*Cc:* Ross Gardler (MS OPEN TECH); Apache Brand Management; Olivier
Fontana
*Subject:* Re: Apache Cordova "Translated using Microsoft Bing
Translation"...
"Are we sure that we can use the machine translation from an IP
perspective? "
Yes, I spoke to Olivier Fontana (added to the CC list) who is the Director
of Product Strategy and Marketing, Machine Translation group, at Microsoft
Research about whether or not there were any
licensing concerns with the output of the documentation that went through
the Machine Translation tool and he said there was not an issue and that
we
would still "own the content" as long as we didn't take the result to
build
our own language model that might
be used as a competitor to Microsoft's machine translation service...
which
we do not intend to do.
Lisa Seacat DeLuca
Mobile Engineer | t: +415.787.4589 | ldeluca@apache.org | |
ldeluca@us.ibm.com |
lisaseacat.com <http://www.lisaseacat.com/> | [image: follow @LisaSeacat
on
twitter] <http://www.twitter.com/LisaSeacat>|
[image: follow Lisa Seacat DeLuca on linkedin]
<http://www.linkedin.com/in/lisaseacat>
From: David Nalley <da...@gnsa.us>
To: Apache Brand Management <tr...@apache.org>
Cc: Cordova Dev <de...@cordova.apache.org>, Ross Gardler <
Ross.Gardler@microsoft.com>
Date: 05/29/2014 04:15 PM
Subject: Re: Apache Cordova "Translated using Microsoft Bing
Translation"...
------------------------------
On Thu, May 29, 2014 at 1:44 PM, Lisa Seacat DeLuca <ld...@us.ibm.com>
wrote:
Cordova/Apache Team~
As many of you are aware, we are using Crowdin to translate our
documentation into multiple languages. When we are nearly 100% translated
we utilize some machine translation within the crowdin tool to finish off
the translations. Currently we are using the
free level within Microsoft Translator service which includes 2 Million
characters a month. As we add support for additional languages and
provide
translations across the multiple platforms and plugins we quickly hit that
2 million character limit. I have
spoken with the Microsoft Translator team and they have graciously agreed
to support our project by providing us with the 64M character level a
month
at no cost. In return, they ask that we acknowledge the use of Microsoft
Translator for our translations.
*I'm writing to see if anyone sees any reason why this*
--
Sent from MetroMail
Re: Apache Cordova "Translated using Microsoft Bing Translation"...
Posted by Ross Gardler <rg...@opendirective.com>.
Shane,
I've communicated the limitations of what I expect to be approved to the
internal MS team, but clearly it needs to be you that gives approval or
otherwise.
What I communicated internally (to MS) is that an appropriate use, such as
the one you suggest, would likely be OK. I also suggested that a case study
which explained how the translation was done would likely be OK (again
paying attention to the appropriate policies). If you are OK with this as a
basic principle, I'd be happy to help the internal team come up with the
proposed materials and submit that to the Cordova PMC for their
consideration and subsequent approval by yourself.
Ross
On 5 June 2014 13:37, Shane Curcuru <as...@shanecurcuru.org> wrote:
> (Note mixed public/private lists)
>
> It depends. What specific authorization is Microsoft looking for?
>
> As a public charity, we are happy to have respectful third parties like
> Microsoft use our product logos to refer to our products in a wide variety
> of places. We are even happy to have third parties build solutions atop
> our software, and then in some specific ways incorporate our product names
> into their product names (Powered By, etc.). Similarly, we're happy for
> third parties to describe how they use our products in various ways - we
> are far more liberal here and don't require explicit permissions for many
> of these things, which is very different from the average software vendor.
>
> But as a independent home for projects that often attract contributions
> from many different sources, we need to ensure that our brands are not used
> in ways that would serve to endorse a third party, or to promote any
> specific affiliation with third parties that would harm our projects'
> abilities to manage their governance independently of corporate influence,
> and to attract new contributors.
>
> We have strong draft guidelines for the flip side of this question, which
> merely need a bit more explanation before I update to best practices and
> push out - to give a flavor of the issues we should consider here:
>
> http://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/linking
>
> In general I would be fine with the translation team at Microsoft saying
> "we've donated services to these open source projects:" in a presentation
> or webpage where you list a variety of project names or logos. That's an
> appropriate factual reference, and makes the relationship clear. But I'm
> probably not fine with that team saying "We're the best machine translators
> since Apache Cordova uses us!"
>
> Does that help? If not, can you be more specific as to what uses of
> Apache brands you're looking for? My guess is that any uses you believe
> are respectful of the independent governance model that is a key part of
> the Apache brand would be fine - but it's difficult to say that without
> understanding the likely uses.
>
> Separately, Gianugo and Ross both are long time Apache Members who I know
> can provide the right kind of feedback to new ideas you might want to get a
> gut check on first.
>
> Also, if you do have feedback or additional questions, we'd appreciate
> them on trademarks@ so we can start to provide better up-front
> documentation about our expectations. It takes some time to write clear
> situations, but there are plenty of respectful uses of Apache brands that
> we want to promote, and don't need to require specific approvals of in each
> case.
>
> - Shane Curcuru
> VP, Brand Management
> The Apache Software Foundation
>
>
> On 6/5/14 8:00 AM, Lisa Seacat DeLuca wrote:> Just following up on this.
> I haven't heard anyone from the Apache
>
> > trademarks team chime in with this new updated request. Please let me
> > know if there are any problems so I know whether I can move forward
> > working with Microsoft on enhancing our translation efforts for Apache
> > Cordova.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> >
> > Lisa
> ...
>
> > From: Ross Gardler <rg...@opendirective.com>
> > To: "dev@cordova.apache.org" <de...@cordova.apache.org>
> > Cc: Lisa Seacat DeLuca/San Francisco/IBM@IBMUS, "Ross Gardler (MS OPEN
> > TECH)" <Ro...@microsoft.com>, "Olivier Bloch (MS OPEN TECH)"
> > <ob...@microsoft.com>, Apache Brand Management <tr...@apache.org>,
> > "Gianugo Rabellino (MS OPEN TECH)" <Gi...@microsoft.com>
> > Date: 05/30/2014 08:19 PM
> > Subject: Re: Apache Cordova "Translated using Microsoft Bing
> > Translation"...
> ...
>
> > Olivier,
> >
> > The ASF cannot grant open ended authorization for the trademarks.
> However,
> > as long as a) the Cordova PMC are comfortable with the proposed use and
> b)
> > it confirmed with the ASF trademark policy then there should be no
> problem
> > with this.
> >
> > So, for example, approval to use the Cordova logo in case study should be
> > fine. Reuse of the logo when presenting that case study should be fine
> > (again, assuming conformance with the ASF trademark policy).
> >
> >
> > On Fri, May 30, 2014 at 14:40 PM, Olivier Fontana <
> olivierf@microsoft.com>
> > wrote:
> ...
>
> > Hi Cordova team,
> >
> >
> >
> > In view of the limited volume requested we will waive the clause
> regarding
> > the use of the translation.
> >
> >
> >
> > Therefore, the only requirements will be, as per our email exchange with
> > Lisa:
> >
> > -
> > Attribution to the Microsoft Translator brand as per the description on
> > www.microsoft.com/Translatorin the "Attribution"
>
> > menu
> >
> > -
> > Apache Cordova team will provide Microsoft with the authorization to use
> > their logo as well as short text/sentence from their choosing that we
> will
> > be able to use for our marketing: website, customer presentations, etc.
> >
> >
> >
> > Are we OK with this?
> >
> >
> >
> > Thank you,
> >
> >
> >
> > Olivier
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > <http://www.microsoft.com/translator/>
> >
> >
> >
> > Olivier Fontana, Director of Product Marketing, Microsoft Translator
> >
> > (t) +1 (425) 705-6555 | (m) +1 (425) 246-3128 |
> > olivierf@microsoft.com <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','alias@microsoft.com
> ');>
> >
> > www.microsoft.com/translator
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [image: cid:image002.png@01CF4F32.60A85F40]
> > <https://www.facebook.com/bingtranslator>
> > <http://ww.twitter.com/mstranslator> <http://blogs.msdn.com/translation>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > *From:* Lisa Seacat DeLuca [mailto:ldeluca@us.ibm.com
> > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','ldeluca@us.ibm.com');>]
> >
> > *Sent:* Thursday, May 29, 2014 13:41
> > *To:* dev@cordova.apache.org
> > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','dev@cordova.apache.org');>
> > *Cc:* Ross Gardler (MS OPEN TECH); Apache Brand Management; Olivier
> Fontana
> > *Subject:* Re: Apache Cordova "Translated using Microsoft Bing
> > Translation"...
> >
> >
> >
> > "Are we sure that we can use the machine translation from an IP
> > perspective? "
> >
> >
> > Yes, I spoke to Olivier Fontana (added to the CC list) who is the
> Director
> > of Product Strategy and Marketing, Machine Translation group, at
> Microsoft
> > Research about whether or not there were any
> > licensing concerns with the output of the documentation that went through
> > the Machine Translation tool and he said there was not an issue and that
> we
> > would still "own the content" as long as we didn't take the result to
> build
> > our own language model that might
> > be used as a competitor to Microsoft's machine translation service...
> which
> > we do not intend to do.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Lisa Seacat DeLuca
> > Mobile Engineer | t: +415.787.4589 | ldeluca@apache.org | |
> > ldeluca@us.ibm.com |
> > lisaseacat.com <http://www.lisaseacat.com/> | [image: follow
> @LisaSeacat on
> > twitter] <http://www.twitter.com/LisaSeacat>|
> > [image: follow Lisa Seacat DeLuca on linkedin]
> > <http://www.linkedin.com/in/lisaseacat>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > From: David Nalley <da...@gnsa.us>
> >
> > To: Apache Brand Management <tr...@apache.org>
> >
> > Cc: Cordova Dev <de...@cordova.apache.org>, Ross Gardler <
> > Ross.Gardler@microsoft.com>
> >
> > Date: 05/29/2014 04:15 PM
> >
> > Subject: Re: Apache Cordova "Translated using Microsoft Bing
> > Translation"...
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, May 29, 2014 at 1:44 PM, Lisa Seacat DeLuca <ld...@us.ibm.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > Cordova/Apache Team~
> >
> > As many of you are aware, we are using Crowdin to translate our
> > documentation into multiple languages. When we are nearly 100%
> translated
> > we utilize some machine translation within the crowdin tool to finish off
> > the translations. Currently we are using the
> > free level within Microsoft Translator service which includes 2 Million
> > characters a month. As we add support for additional languages and
> provide
> > translations across the multiple platforms and plugins we quickly hit
> that
> > 2 million character limit. I have
> > spoken with the Microsoft Translator team and they have graciously agreed
> > to support our project by providing us with the 64M character level a
> month
> > at no cost. In return, they ask that we acknowledge the use of Microsoft
> > Translator for our translations.
> >
> >
> > *I'm writing to see if anyone sees any reason why this*
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Sent from MetroMail
> >
>
>
>
Re: Apache Cordova "Translated using Microsoft Bing Translation"...
Posted by Shane Curcuru <as...@shanecurcuru.org>.
(Note mixed public/private lists)
It depends. What specific authorization is Microsoft looking for?
As a public charity, we are happy to have respectful third parties like
Microsoft use our product logos to refer to our products in a wide
variety of places. We are even happy to have third parties build
solutions atop our software, and then in some specific ways incorporate
our product names into their product names (Powered By, etc.).
Similarly, we're happy for third parties to describe how they use our
products in various ways - we are far more liberal here and don't
require explicit permissions for many of these things, which is very
different from the average software vendor.
But as a independent home for projects that often attract contributions
from many different sources, we need to ensure that our brands are not
used in ways that would serve to endorse a third party, or to promote
any specific affiliation with third parties that would harm our
projects' abilities to manage their governance independently of
corporate influence, and to attract new contributors.
We have strong draft guidelines for the flip side of this question,
which merely need a bit more explanation before I update to best
practices and push out - to give a flavor of the issues we should
consider here:
http://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/linking
In general I would be fine with the translation team at Microsoft saying
"we've donated services to these open source projects:" in a
presentation or webpage where you list a variety of project names or
logos. That's an appropriate factual reference, and makes the
relationship clear. But I'm probably not fine with that team saying
"We're the best machine translators since Apache Cordova uses us!"
Does that help? If not, can you be more specific as to what uses of
Apache brands you're looking for? My guess is that any uses you believe
are respectful of the independent governance model that is a key part of
the Apache brand would be fine - but it's difficult to say that without
understanding the likely uses.
Separately, Gianugo and Ross both are long time Apache Members who I
know can provide the right kind of feedback to new ideas you might want
to get a gut check on first.
Also, if you do have feedback or additional questions, we'd appreciate
them on trademarks@ so we can start to provide better up-front
documentation about our expectations. It takes some time to write clear
situations, but there are plenty of respectful uses of Apache brands
that we want to promote, and don't need to require specific approvals of
in each case.
- Shane Curcuru
VP, Brand Management
The Apache Software Foundation
On 6/5/14 8:00 AM, Lisa Seacat DeLuca wrote:> Just following up on this.
I haven't heard anyone from the Apache
> trademarks team chime in with this new updated request. Please let me
> know if there are any problems so I know whether I can move forward
> working with Microsoft on enhancing our translation efforts for Apache
> Cordova.
>
> Thanks,
>
>
> Lisa
...
> From: Ross Gardler <rg...@opendirective.com>
> To: "dev@cordova.apache.org" <de...@cordova.apache.org>
> Cc: Lisa Seacat DeLuca/San Francisco/IBM@IBMUS, "Ross Gardler (MS OPEN
> TECH)" <Ro...@microsoft.com>, "Olivier Bloch (MS OPEN TECH)"
> <ob...@microsoft.com>, Apache Brand Management <tr...@apache.org>,
> "Gianugo Rabellino (MS OPEN TECH)" <Gi...@microsoft.com>
> Date: 05/30/2014 08:19 PM
> Subject: Re: Apache Cordova "Translated using Microsoft Bing
> Translation"...
...
> Olivier,
>
> The ASF cannot grant open ended authorization for the trademarks.
However,
> as long as a) the Cordova PMC are comfortable with the proposed use
and b)
> it confirmed with the ASF trademark policy then there should be no
problem
> with this.
>
> So, for example, approval to use the Cordova logo in case study should be
> fine. Reuse of the logo when presenting that case study should be fine
> (again, assuming conformance with the ASF trademark policy).
>
>
> On Fri, May 30, 2014 at 14:40 PM, Olivier Fontana
<ol...@microsoft.com>
> wrote:
...
> Hi Cordova team,
>
>
>
> In view of the limited volume requested we will waive the clause
regarding
> the use of the translation.
>
>
>
> Therefore, the only requirements will be, as per our email exchange with
> Lisa:
>
> -
> Attribution to the Microsoft Translator brand as per the description on
> www.microsoft.com/Translatorin the "Attribution"
> menu
>
> -
> Apache Cordova team will provide Microsoft with the authorization to use
> their logo as well as short text/sentence from their choosing that we
will
> be able to use for our marketing: website, customer presentations, etc.
>
>
>
> Are we OK with this?
>
>
>
> Thank you,
>
>
>
> Olivier
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> <http://www.microsoft.com/translator/>
>
>
>
> Olivier Fontana, Director of Product Marketing, Microsoft Translator
>
> (t) +1 (425) 705-6555 | (m) +1 (425) 246-3128 |
> olivierf@microsoft.com
<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','alias@microsoft.com');>
>
> www.microsoft.com/translator
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [image: cid:image002.png@01CF4F32.60A85F40]
> <https://www.facebook.com/bingtranslator>
> <http://ww.twitter.com/mstranslator>
<http://blogs.msdn.com/translation>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Lisa Seacat DeLuca [mailto:ldeluca@us.ibm.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','ldeluca@us.ibm.com');>]
>
> *Sent:* Thursday, May 29, 2014 13:41
> *To:* dev@cordova.apache.org
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','dev@cordova.apache.org');>
> *Cc:* Ross Gardler (MS OPEN TECH); Apache Brand Management; Olivier
Fontana
> *Subject:* Re: Apache Cordova "Translated using Microsoft Bing
> Translation"...
>
>
>
> "Are we sure that we can use the machine translation from an IP
> perspective? "
>
>
> Yes, I spoke to Olivier Fontana (added to the CC list) who is the
Director
> of Product Strategy and Marketing, Machine Translation group, at
Microsoft
> Research about whether or not there were any
> licensing concerns with the output of the documentation that went through
> the Machine Translation tool and he said there was not an issue and
that we
> would still "own the content" as long as we didn't take the result to
build
> our own language model that might
> be used as a competitor to Microsoft's machine translation service...
which
> we do not intend to do.
>
>
>
>
> Lisa Seacat DeLuca
> Mobile Engineer | t: +415.787.4589 | ldeluca@apache.org | |
> ldeluca@us.ibm.com |
> lisaseacat.com <http://www.lisaseacat.com/> | [image: follow
@LisaSeacat on
> twitter] <http://www.twitter.com/LisaSeacat>|
> [image: follow Lisa Seacat DeLuca on linkedin]
> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/lisaseacat>
>
>
>
>
> From: David Nalley <da...@gnsa.us>
>
> To: Apache Brand Management <tr...@apache.org>
>
> Cc: Cordova Dev <de...@cordova.apache.org>, Ross Gardler <
> Ross.Gardler@microsoft.com>
>
> Date: 05/29/2014 04:15 PM
>
> Subject: Re: Apache Cordova "Translated using Microsoft Bing
> Translation"...
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, May 29, 2014 at 1:44 PM, Lisa Seacat DeLuca <ld...@us.ibm.com>
> wrote:
>
> Cordova/Apache Team~
>
> As many of you are aware, we are using Crowdin to translate our
> documentation into multiple languages. When we are nearly 100%
translated
> we utilize some machine translation within the crowdin tool to finish off
> the translations. Currently we are using the
> free level within Microsoft Translator service which includes 2 Million
> characters a month. As we add support for additional languages and
provide
> translations across the multiple platforms and plugins we quickly hit
that
> 2 million character limit. I have
> spoken with the Microsoft Translator team and they have graciously agreed
> to support our project by providing us with the 64M character level a
month
> at no cost. In return, they ask that we acknowledge the use of Microsoft
> Translator for our translations.
>
>
> *I'm writing to see if anyone sees any reason why this*
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Sent from MetroMail
>