License of enhanced or transformed code

[rlv j <Na...@RheinLand-Versicherungen.de>]

As I understand it, OpenJPA modifies your code (in the form of Java .class
files) to add persistency abilities, presumably adding code from OpenJPA
to the code being modified to create a combined work.  Is this so, and is
the resulting combination subject to the Apache License? I think it is
something that users of OpenJPA in general should concern themselves with
and it would be appropriate to feature in your documentation.

Transformations to the classes are done even if the Enhancer isn't run on
the .class files in advance of running, aren't they?

I mailed apache.org regarding this, and recieved the response:
>If the OpenJPA PMC had not already addressed this issue, then they should
consult with our legal committee.

I thank you much for your contribution to the community and in advance for
your reply. 
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Re: License of enhanced or transformed code

[Patrick Linskey <pl...@gmail.com>]

I'm also not a lawyer.

If you are still concerned about this, you might want to consider  
deploy-time enhancement, either via deployment into a Java EE  
container or with the -javaagent flag. This would prevent the enhanced  
code from ever being written to disk, and I think that licensing  
typically triggers on "distribution". When using the deploy-time  
enhancement options, you would never be distributing enhanced code.

HTH,

-Patrick

On Apr 28, 2008, at 4:09 AM, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:

>
> On Apr 28, 2008, at 6:16 AM, rlv j wrote:
>>
>>> Isn't your software already combined with openjpa, irrespective of  
>>> the
>>> enhancement?
>>
>> I believe that 'my software' can be compiled to .class files while  
>> being
>> clearly not a derivative work because they are separable and only use
>> OpenJPA by linking.
>>
>> Apache License 2 {
>> Derivative Works shall not include works that remain separable  
>> from, or
>> merely link (or bind by name) to the interfaces of, the Work and  
>> Derivative
>> Works thereof. }
>
> Of course.
>
>>
>>
>> However, after OpenJPA alters the code of 'my software', is the  
>> result under
>> Apache License?
>
> I see.  You're wondering if somehow your code is "forced" to be  
> under the AL because of this?
>
> First, I'm not a lawyer, I'm speaking as an individual, and the  
> following shouldn't be in any way interpreted to be the POV of the  
> ASF, or this PMC.
>
> I would say the answer is no.
>
> First, I can't imagine that the modifications made to your class  
> file can be construed as a derivative work of OpenJPA, any more than  
> an optimizing compiler creates a derivative work of itself when it  
> produces object code from your source - it's just a mechanical  
> transformation of your data.
>
> Second, such a thing is clearly in conflict with the philosophy  
> behind the Apache License - there's no interest in compelling anyone  
> to put their code under the Apache License unless they make the  
> decision to do so.  While I don't think it's anywhere possible here,  
> in the unlikely event there was a situation where such a thing was  
> uncertain, I'm sure the PMC or ASF would provide a statement of  
> intent to clarify.  Again, I don't think thats necessary here.
>
> geir
>
>>
>> -- 
>> View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/License-of-enhanced-or-transformed-code-tp16934610p16936016.html
>> Sent from the OpenJPA Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>
>

-- 
Patrick Linskey
202 669 5907

Re: License of enhanced or transformed code

["Geir Magnusson Jr." <ge...@pobox.com>]

On Apr 28, 2008, at 6:16 AM, rlv j wrote:
>
>> Isn't your software already combined with openjpa, irrespective of  
>> the
>> enhancement?
>
> I believe that 'my software' can be compiled to .class files while  
> being
> clearly not a derivative work because they are separable and only use
> OpenJPA by linking.
>
> Apache License 2 {
> Derivative Works shall not include works that remain separable from,  
> or
> merely link (or bind by name) to the interfaces of, the Work and  
> Derivative
> Works thereof. }

Of course.

>
>
> However, after OpenJPA alters the code of 'my software', is the  
> result under
> Apache License?

I see.  You're wondering if somehow your code is "forced" to be under  
the AL because of this?

First, I'm not a lawyer, I'm speaking as an individual, and the  
following shouldn't be in any way interpreted to be the POV of the  
ASF, or this PMC.

I would say the answer is no.

First, I can't imagine that the modifications made to your class file  
can be construed as a derivative work of OpenJPA, any more than an  
optimizing compiler creates a derivative work of itself when it  
produces object code from your source - it's just a mechanical  
transformation of your data.

Second, such a thing is clearly in conflict with the philosophy behind  
the Apache License - there's no interest in compelling anyone to put  
their code under the Apache License unless they make the decision to  
do so.  While I don't think it's anywhere possible here, in the  
unlikely event there was a situation where such a thing was uncertain,  
I'm sure the PMC or ASF would provide a statement of intent to  
clarify.  Again, I don't think thats necessary here.

geir

>
> -- 
> View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/License-of-enhanced-or-transformed-code-tp16934610p16936016.html
> Sent from the OpenJPA Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>

Re: License of enhanced or transformed code

[Janko Heilgeist <ja...@rzg.mpg.de>]

Hi Nathan,

Craig Russell already replied to your question on the openjpa-users
mailing list, but maybe you've missed his mail:

Craig L Russell wrote:
> Hi Nathan,
> 
> What OpenJPA does to the .class file is similar to what the compiler
> does to your .java file. It takes directives from the .class file and
> metadata file(s) and creates a new .class file combining "your"
> .class file with "your" metadata file(s). OpenJPA does not add any
> OpenJPA Intellectual Property in the process.
> 
> So if you owned the IP to your .class file and your metadata file(s),
> then you still own all of the IP to the result of enhancement.
> OpenJPA and/or Apache have no IP interest in the result.
> 
> Craig

Janko

Re: License of enhanced or transformed code

[rlv j <Na...@RheinLand-Versicherungen.de>]

>Isn't your software already combined with openjpa, irrespective of the  
>enhancement?

I believe that 'my software' can be compiled to .class files while being
clearly not a derivative work because they are separable and only use
OpenJPA by linking.

Apache License 2 {
Derivative Works shall not include works that remain separable from, or
merely link (or bind by name) to the interfaces of, the Work and Derivative
Works thereof. }

However, after OpenJPA alters the code of 'my software', is the result under
Apache License?
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Re: License of enhanced or transformed code

["Geir Magnusson Jr." <ge...@pobox.com>]

Isn't your software already combined with openjpa, irrespective of the  
enhancement?

geir

On Apr 28, 2008, at 5:17 AM, rlv j wrote:
>
> As I understand it, OpenJPA modifies your code (in the form of  
> Java .class
> files) to add persistency abilities, presumably adding code from  
> OpenJPA
> to the code being modified to create a combined work.  Is this so,  
> and is
> the resulting combination subject to the Apache License? I think it is
> something that users of OpenJPA in general should concern themselves  
> with
> and it would be appropriate to feature in your documentation.
>
> Transformations to the classes are done even if the Enhancer isn't  
> run on
> the .class files in advance of running, aren't they?
>
> I mailed apache.org regarding this, and recieved the response:
>> If the OpenJPA PMC had not already addressed this issue, then they  
>> should
> consult with our legal committee.
>
> I thank you much for your contribution to the community and in  
> advance for
> your reply.
> -- 
> View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/License-of-enhanced-or-transformed-code-tp16934610p16934610.html
> Sent from the OpenJPA Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>