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Posted to users@httpd.apache.org by David Blomstrom <Ge...@geobop.com> on 2003/06/08 01:18:27 UTC
[users@httpd] Newbie
Hi, I'd like to learn about Apache, PHP and MySQL. I'm pretty clueless
about all three and would like to ask some really basic questions about
Apache before I take the plunge.
My primary interest is in designing webpages. I'd also like to be able to
lease a dedicated server some day. My operating system is Windows XP. I
have Linx Redhat installed on another hard drive, but I haven't learned how
to use it yet.
I downloaded a pre-configured package including Apache, PHP and MySQL
("firepages phpdev") from
http://www.hotscripts.com/PHP/Software_and_Servers/Installation_Kits/ , but
I haven't installed it yet. Before I do, I need a better understanding of
this stuff - and I don't even have a clear understanding of what a server is.
So here are my questions: If I install Apache server software, will it
replace the IIS server that comes with Microsoft XP, or will I have two
servers that I can choose between? How much damage could I do if I make a
mistake while installing it? I wondered if I might not be able to preview
my webpages if I make a mistake installing Apache.
I browsed a tutorial that described installing Apache on an E drive. I have
an external hard drive that I use for backing up my files. Can I install
Apache, PHP and MySQL on that drive, then choose between previewing my
webpages on my C drive (ISS) and previewing them on the external drive (ISS)?
Eventually, I'd like to install Apache on my Linux drive - after I find the
time to learn how to use Linux.
Finally, I read this: "The base Apache Web server package does not include
support for Java, Java Server Pages, Enterprise Java Beans, or Java
servlets. Those features are available as add-ons from the Apache/Java
project site, <URL:http://jakarta.apache.org/>."
Does that mean that when I preview my pages, JavaScript functions - like
the sortable tables at
http://www.geobop.com/world/na/topics/history/statehood/ - won't work,
unless I install some add-ons?
Thanks.
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Re: [users@httpd] Newbie Install Questions
Posted by BAO RuiXian <ru...@pp.inet.fi>.
Joshua Slive wrote:
> On Sun, 20 Jul 2003, David Blomstrom wrote:
>
>>So I'm not sure why I can't view http://localhost/ My hunch is that I
>>haven't successfully disabled IIS or I'm hamstrung by some sort of Windows
>>but or security system. Or have I messed up my Apache installation?
Remember you are listening on port 8080 in your httpd.conf. Check for
that, and then try http://localhost:8080, or the port number which
appears in your configuaration file otherwise.
Bao
>
> Sounds like the right hunch to me. As long as something is responding at
> http://localhost/ (rather than getting a "host not found" error), that
> means you have a web server running already, and you aren't going to have
> much luck installing apache on port 80.
>
> Unfortunately, I don't know much about IIS, so I can't help you get rid of
> it.
>
> Joshua.
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Re: [users@httpd] Newbie Install Questions
Posted by Joshua Slive <jo...@slive.ca>.
On Sun, 20 Jul 2003, David Blomstrom wrote:
> So I'm not sure why I can't view http://localhost/ My hunch is that I
> haven't successfully disabled IIS or I'm hamstrung by some sort of Windows
> but or security system. Or have I messed up my Apache installation?
Sounds like the right hunch to me. As long as something is responding at
http://localhost/ (rather than getting a "host not found" error), that
means you have a web server running already, and you aren't going to have
much luck installing apache on port 80.
Unfortunately, I don't know much about IIS, so I can't help you get rid of
it.
Joshua.
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RE: [users@httpd] Newbie Install Questions
Posted by Jeff Cohen <su...@gej-it.com>.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: David Blomstrom [mailto:GeoBear@geobop.com]
> Sent: Sunday, July 20, 2003 1:52 PM
> To: users@httpd.apache.org
> Subject: Re: [users@httpd] Newbie Install Questions
>
> At 01:08 PM 7/20/2003 -0400, Joshua Slive wrote:
>
> >"Someone" has bad information. You should be using 2.0, especially on
> >windows.
> >
> > > Does this mean IIS IS running, and I need to disable it or put Apache
on a
> > > different port (like 8080)?
> >
> >Yes.
>
> OK. I uninstalled Apache 1.3, installed Apache 2.0, then rebooted my
> computer just to make sure everything is fresh.
>
> The instructions I found for disabling Microsoft's IIS server didn't
really
> square with what I saw on my monitor, but I went to Control Panel >
> Administrative Tools > Internet Services, and found an icon labeled
CAY6M4,
> followed by "Version IIS V5.1." I disconnected it.
>
> When I type http://localhost/ into Mozilla, I still get a
username/password
> request, while IE still opens up two IIS pages.
>
> Next, I went into Program Files > Apache Group and found two folders,
> Apache and Apache2. I'm not sure if that's the way it's supposed to be, or
> if one folder is left over from Apache 1.3.
>
>
> I opened Apache > conf > httpd.conf and found the following relevant
> information:
>
> Port 8080
> ServerAdmin david@localhost
> ServerName localhost
> DocumentRoot "C:/Program Files/Apache Group/Apache/htdocs"
>
> but I get the same username/password request when I type http://localhost/
> into my browser.
>
>
> And here's what I found in Apache2 > conf > httpd.conf:
>
> Listen 8080
> ServerAdmin GeoBear@geobop.com
> ServerName www.geobop.com:8080
> UseCanonicalName Off
> DocumentRoot "C:/Program Files/Apache Group/Apache2/htdocs"
>
>
> So I'm not sure why I can't view http://localhost/ My hunch is that I
> haven't successfully disabled IIS or I'm hamstrung by some sort of Windows
> but or security system. Or have I messed up my Apache installation?
>
> Thanks.
>
To disable IIS from running on port 80, go to Start->Settings->Control
Panel-> Administrative Tools->IIS Manager->add your computer back in->Expand
the tree-> Rightclick on Default Web Server-> Stop!
That should stop the web on port 80 from running at least.
Now, you mentioned something about the SMTP service, do you use it as your
SMTP server or you don't know why it's there?
If you do, then its ok.
If you do not use it, I would suggest removing IIS all at once, to do that
go to Control Panel-> Add\Remove Programs-> Add\Remove Windows Components->
uncheck the checkbox where IIS is, not only the web, ALL OF IT, because its
stincks! (And I'm the M$ Certified :=) )
Good luck and all the best,
Jeff Cohen
Support@GEJ-IT.com
Tel. (416) 917-2324
www.GEJ-IT.com
GEJ-IT Networks!
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Re: [users@httpd] Newbie Install Questions
Posted by David Blomstrom <Ge...@geobop.com>.
At 01:08 PM 7/20/2003 -0400, Joshua Slive wrote:
>"Someone" has bad information. You should be using 2.0, especially on
>windows.
>
> > Does this mean IIS IS running, and I need to disable it or put Apache on a
> > different port (like 8080)?
>
>Yes.
OK. I uninstalled Apache 1.3, installed Apache 2.0, then rebooted my
computer just to make sure everything is fresh.
The instructions I found for disabling Microsoft's IIS server didn't really
square with what I saw on my monitor, but I went to Control Panel >
Administrative Tools > Internet Services, and found an icon labeled CAY6M4,
followed by "Version IIS V5.1." I disconnected it.
When I type http://localhost/ into Mozilla, I still get a username/password
request, while IE still opens up two IIS pages.
Next, I went into Program Files > Apache Group and found two folders,
Apache and Apache2. I'm not sure if that's the way it's supposed to be, or
if one folder is left over from Apache 1.3.
I opened Apache > conf > httpd.conf and found the following relevant
information:
Port 8080
ServerAdmin david@localhost
ServerName localhost
DocumentRoot "C:/Program Files/Apache Group/Apache/htdocs"
but I get the same username/password request when I type http://localhost/
into my browser.
And here's what I found in Apache2 > conf > httpd.conf:
Listen 8080
ServerAdmin GeoBear@geobop.com
ServerName www.geobop.com:8080
UseCanonicalName Off
DocumentRoot "C:/Program Files/Apache Group/Apache2/htdocs"
So I'm not sure why I can't view http://localhost/ My hunch is that I
haven't successfully disabled IIS or I'm hamstrung by some sort of Windows
but or security system. Or have I messed up my Apache installation?
Thanks.
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Re: [users@httpd] Newbie Install Questions
Posted by Joshua Slive <jo...@slive.ca>.
On Sun, 20 Jul 2003, David Blomstrom wrote:
> Thanks for the feedback. I have one more question. Someone told me I should
> use Apache 1.3 instead of 2.0 if I'm primarily interested in using it for
> web design. (I want to learn a little about website administration, too,
> but I'll probably wait until I learn about Linux to tackle that.)
"Someone" has bad information. You should be using 2.0, especially on
windows.
> Does this mean IIS IS running, and I need to disable it or put Apache on a
> different port (like 8080)?
Yes.
Joshua.
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Re: [users@httpd] Newbie Install Questions
Posted by David Blomstrom <Ge...@geobop.com>.
Thanks for the feedback. I have one more question. Someone told me I should
use Apache 1.3 instead of 2.0 if I'm primarily interested in using it for
web design. (I want to learn a little about website administration, too,
but I'll probably wait until I learn about Linux to tackle that.)
Anyway, I downloaded Apache 1.3, too, and installed it very easily.
However, when I type
http://localhost/ into my Mozilla browser, instead of getting the Apache
test page, I'm asked for my unsername and password. When I cancel, the page
defaults to http://localhost/localstart.asp ("You are not authorized to
view this page").
When I type http://localhost/ into Internet Explorer, it opens two pages:
http://localhost/localstart.asp - "Your Web service is now running.
You do not currently have a default Web page established for your users.
Any users attempting to connect to your Web site from another machine are
currently receiving an Under Construction page. Your Web server lists the
following files as possible default Web pages:
default.htm,default.asp,index.htm,iisstart.asp. Currently, only
iisstart.asp exists.
"To add documents to your default Web site, save files in c:\inetpub\wwwroot\."
and
http://localhost/iishelp/iis/misc/default.asp - Getting started with IIS.
Does this mean IIS IS running, and I need to disable it or put Apache on a
different port (like 8080)?
Thanks.
Re: [users@httpd] Newbie Install Questions
Posted by Joshua Slive <jo...@slive.ca>.
To start, don't take all those questions so seriously. They are just
filling in default values in httpd.conf. You can always (and often
should) go in and change them later, after consulting the appropriate
documentation.
On Sat, 19 Jul 2003, David Blomstrom wrote:
> "1. Network Domain. Enter the DNS domain in which your server is or will be
> registered in. For example, if your server's full DNS name is
> server.mydomain.net, you would type mydomain.net here."
>
> I don't have a clue what they're talking about. My website is at
> www.geobop.com,
Use geobop.com.
> "Server Name. Your server's full DNS name. From the example above, you
> would type server.mydomain.net here."
>
> So if I choose apache.net for my DNS name, then my server name would be
> server.apache.net?
No. Use www.geopbop.com.
> I'll be the only one using my computer, but I assume I have to make some
> sort of allowance for my Windows XP server, IIS. Apparently, IIS isn't even
> running yet, because my webpages preview with a "file" prefix. Do I have to
> get IIS up and running now, or can I just deal with Apache first, then go
> back and set up IIS later?
Apache certainly doesn't depend on IIS. In fact, if you run them both,
you need to assign one of them to a non-standard port or IP address. You
can't run two web servers on the same port/ip address.
Joshua.
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[users@httpd] Newbie Install Questions
Posted by David Blomstrom <Ge...@geobop.com>.
I joined this list a few weeks ago, but I didn't get around to downloading
Apache (2.0) until today. Eventually, I want to learn how to use Apache
with Linux, but I'm not even using Linux yet, so I downloaded Apache for
Windows (XP Business), along with php and MySQL.
I didn't get any instructions with my download, so I visited Apache's
website and found the installation instructions at
http://httpd.apache.org/docs-2.0/platform/windows.html
I ran into some problems immediately. Can someone explain the following to me?:
"1. Network Domain. Enter the DNS domain in which your server is or will be
registered in. For example, if your server's full DNS name is
server.mydomain.net, you would type mydomain.net here."
I don't have a clue what they're talking about. My website is at
www.geobop.com, but I'm splitting it into several websites with unique
domain names. But these instructions must be asking for a domain name on my
local computer, right? Do I just make up any name I want and tack on .net -
like david.net, or apache.net? And do I actually "register" this name with
someone, or is merely choosing a name the act of registration they're
referring to?
"Server Name. Your server's full DNS name. From the example above, you
would type server.mydomain.net here."
So if I choose apache.net for my DNS name, then my server name would be
server.apache.net?
"Administrator's Email Address. Enter the server administrator's or
webmaster's email address here. This address will be displayed along with
error messages to the client by default."
GeoBear@geobop.com
"For whom to install Apache Select for All Users, on Port 80, as a Service
- Recommended if you'd like your new Apache to listen at port 80 for
incoming traffic. It will run as a service (that is, Apache will run even
if no one is logged in on the server at the moment) Select only for the
Current User, on Port 8080, when started Manually if you'd like to install
Apache for your personal experimenting or if you already have another WWW
server running on port 80."
I'll be the only one using my computer, but I assume I have to make some
sort of allowance for my Windows XP server, IIS. Apparently, IIS isn't even
running yet, because my webpages preview with a "file" prefix. Do I have to
get IIS up and running now, or can I just deal with Apache first, then go
back and set up IIS later?
I'll probably choose a full install over a custom install.
It will take me a long time to learn this stuff, but I'll be a lot closer
if I can just get it installed correctly.
Thanks.
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Re: [users@httpd] Newbie
Posted by Joshua Slive <jo...@slive.ca>.
On Mon, 9 Jun 2003, David Blomstrom wrote:
> I see "file://..."
Then you aren't use a server at all. Your browser is accessing the files
directly through the filesystem.
> I'm now using Dreamweaver, and I've been trying to learn what I need to
> know to start using some other things - Linux, Apache, etc., but I find it
> extremely confusing. I generally prefer good online tutorials to books, but
> if IIS/Apache books are the best resources available, I'll give it a shot.
There is tons of online stuff, but most of it assumes that you have a
moderate level of knowledge about both your OS and the web. Some books
are better at starting from the beginning.
(In particular, the online docs available for apache on windows are really
only good if you already know both windows and have some familiarity with
web servers.)
Joshua.
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Re: [users@httpd] Newbie
Posted by David Blomstrom <Ge...@geobop.com>.
At 05:39 PM 6/9/2003 -0400, you wrote:
>Something like that. But are you sure IIS is even running? When you test
>webpages, do you see http://... in the URL bar or do you see file://...
>If it is the latter, you aren't using a server at all.
I see "file://..."
> > Finally, if I had both servers running at once, and I wanted to preview a
> > web page (I use both Dreamweaver and FrontPage), would I then choose which
> > server I want to use to preview the page?
>
>One of them needs to run on a non-standard port, which you would then need
>to include in your url, as in http://yourcomputer.example.com:8080/ where
>8080 is the port.
>
>"No offense intended, but you seem to be lacking some basic knowledge about
>both your OS and how the web works. If you feel like playing, then go for
>it, and you'll figure things out. But you might be better off heading
>down to the store and buying a couple good books on IIS and Apache to get
>you started. You'd probably save yourself alot of time."
No offense taken. I've devoted most of my time to researching and writing
content, rather than learning the technical aspects of web design. I'm
stuck on a Windows platform and used Microsoft FrontPage for webpage
design, until I realized I was digging myself into a rut.
I'm now using Dreamweaver, and I've been trying to learn what I need to
know to start using some other things - Linux, Apache, etc., but I find it
extremely confusing. I generally prefer good online tutorials to books, but
if IIS/Apache books are the best resources available, I'll give it a shot.
Thanks for the tips!
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Re: [users@httpd] Newbie
Posted by Joshua Slive <jo...@slive.ca>.
On Mon, 9 Jun 2003, David Blomstrom wrote:
> Thanks for the feedback; it helps a lot, though I'm not sure what you mean
> by running both servers at the same time. Do servers run in the background
> automatically, similar to anti-virus software? Or do they only run when
> you're previewing webpages?
Yes, they usually run in the background as a "Windows Service". (Although
apache can be run from the command line; see the docs on using apache
under windows.)
> If they run automatically, then IIS is running on my computer right now,
> and if I download and install Apache on Drive C, it will start running
> automatically, too - right?
>
> So the next step is to set either Apache or IIS to a non-standard port? And
> if I screw something up or can't figure out how to use Apache, I'd just
> remove Apache from my hard drive, and IIS would kick in again?
Something like that. But are you sure IIS is even running? When you test
webpages, do you see http://... in the URL bar or do you see file://...
If it is the latter, you aren't using a server at all.
>
> Finally, if I had both servers running at once, and I wanted to preview a
> web page (I use both Dreamweaver and FrontPage), would I then choose which
> server I want to use to preview the page?
One of them needs to run on a non-standard port, which you would then need
to include in your url, as in http://yourcomputer.example.com:8080/ where
8080 is the port.
No offense intended, but you seem to be lacking some basic knowledge about
both your OS and how the web works. If you feel like playing, then go for
it, and you'll figure things out. But you might be better off heading
down to the store and buying a couple good books on IIS and Apache to get
you started. You'd probably save yourself alot of time.
Joshua.
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Re: [users@httpd] Newbie
Posted by David Blomstrom <Ge...@geobop.com>.
I asked, "If I install Apache server software, will it replace the IIS
server that comes with Microsoft XP, or will I have two servers that I can
choose between? How much damage could I do if I make a mistake while
installing it? I wondered if I might not be able to preview my webpages if
I make a mistake installing Apache."
Joshua replied, "You can install both servers with no problem. But only
one server can listen to each IP-Address/Port combination. So if you want
to run them both at the same time, you'll need to set one of them to a
non-standard port. (In apache, you can do this with the Listen directive.)"
Thanks for the feedback; it helps a lot, though I'm not sure what you mean
by running both servers at the same time. Do servers run in the background
automatically, similar to anti-virus software? Or do they only run when
you're previewing webpages?
If they run automatically, then IIS is running on my computer right now,
and if I download and install Apache on Drive C, it will start running
automatically, too - right?
So the next step is to set either Apache or IIS to a non-standard port? And
if I screw something up or can't figure out how to use Apache, I'd just
remove Apache from my hard drive, and IIS would kick in again?
Finally, if I had both servers running at once, and I wanted to preview a
web page (I use both Dreamweaver and FrontPage), would I then choose which
server I want to use to preview the page?
Thanks.
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Re: [users@httpd] Newbie
Posted by Joshua Slive <jo...@slive.ca>.
On Sat, 7 Jun 2003, David Blomstrom wrote:
> So here are my questions: If I install Apache server software, will it
> replace the IIS server that comes with Microsoft XP, or will I have two
> servers that I can choose between? How much damage could I do if I make a
> mistake while installing it? I wondered if I might not be able to preview
> my webpages if I make a mistake installing Apache.
You can install both servers with no problem. But only one server can
listen to each IP-Address/Port combination. So if you want to run them
both at the same time, you'll need to set one of them to a non-standard
port. (In apache, you can do this with the Listen directive.)
> I browsed a tutorial that described installing Apache on an E drive. I have
> an external hard drive that I use for backing up my files. Can I install
> Apache, PHP and MySQL on that drive, then choose between previewing my
> webpages on my C drive (ISS) and previewing them on the external drive (ISS)?
If you are comfortable starting/shutting down IIS and changing the port
number that IIS listens to, then you should have no problem. Which drive
things are installed on is irrelevant.
> Finally, I read this: "The base Apache Web server package does not include
> support for Java, Java Server Pages, Enterprise Java Beans, or Java
> servlets. Those features are available as add-ons from the Apache/Java
> project site, <URL:http://jakarta.apache.org/>."
>
> Does that mean that when I preview my pages, JavaScript functions - like
> the sortable tables at
> http://www.geobop.com/world/na/topics/history/statehood/ - won't work,
> unless I install some add-ons?
The quote refers to server-side java. Client-side javascipt is executed
entirely by the browser, and no webserver support is necessary. (I
haven't checked that link, but I'm assuming it is client-side javascript.)
Joshua.
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