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Posted to users@subversion.apache.org by bobby lockes <bo...@yahoo.co.uk> on 2003/09/29 10:58:30 UTC
windows lusers & linux repository
Hello,
I've isntalled subverions for the first time this
morning. Didn't take long and seems to work, I've
installed it with apache and webDAV on SUSE 8.2 and
would now like to know how the non-programmers and the
third floor using their microsoft windows machines can
access the new repository.
I read on the mailing list that "windows web folder"
can be used and that "no fancy GUI required". I don't
know what a windows web folder is that is but it
sounds like the ideal solution if it something that
comes with every windows machine. It would be nice if
they can access and write to the repository using
software that comes with windows (explorer for
instance).
Is it possible to use generic windows software to
access a repository on a linux box or do I have to
install a subverion client? If a subverison client
needs to be installed which one is the EASIEST for
non-techies to use on windows?
Thanks very much
neil
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Re: windows lusers & linux repository
Posted by Ben Collins-Sussman <su...@collab.net>.
pll@lanminds.com writes:
> >Thanks. But if it can't the shard network file system
> >can't be written to then it must be a big issue with
> >subversion. Do you know if I can achieve a file
> >repository on a shared network drive accessible by
> >windows and linux users using CVS?
> >
> >I'll take a look at tortoise.
>
> What Ben is saying is that the repo, shared out under the DAV
> protocol, and accessed by a normal, non-svn DAV client, such as
> a Windows or Mac system, using "Web Folders", results in a read-only
> file system. This should not be interpreted to mean that Windows
> systems can not be used as svn clients. Quite to the contrary, there
> are many people using Windows and Macs for development with
> Subversion as the back-end revision control system.
Also, if he reads Appendix D as I suggested, he would learn that the
SVNAutoversioning feature *would* make the WebFolder writable, which
is what he wants, I think: transparent commits via writes to a
network share.
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Re: windows lusers & linux repository
Posted by pl...@lanminds.com.
In a message dated: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 17:16:07 +0200 Brane said:
>pll@lanminds.com wrote:
>
>>This "Web Folder" feature is a side effect of using http as the
>>network transport for Subversion. However, Subversion needed to
>>extend this some in order to attain the functionality of a rev
>>control system since DAV doesn't provide everything.
>>
>>
>Let's not confuse people; "Subversion" did not extend anything. DAV is
>an HTTP extension that supports distributed authoring; DeltaV is a DAV
>extension that supports versioning. Subversion implements certain parts
>of DAV and DeltaV, but by no means all of them. We didn't invent either
>protocol extension, though.
Sorry, I didn't mean to say 'extend', rather, that what you said. svn
uses what it can of both protocols so as to no re-invent the wheel,
and makes up for limitations in it's own code base, not by
re-implementing/extending WebDAV/DeltaV.
--
Seeya,
Paul
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Re: windows lusers & linux repository
Posted by Branko Čibej <br...@xbc.nu>.
pll@lanminds.com wrote:
>This "Web Folder" feature is a side effect of using http as the
>network transport for Subversion. However, Subversion needed to
>extend this some in order to attain the functionality of a rev
>control system since DAV doesn't provide everything.
>
>
Let's not confuse people; "Subversion" did not extend anything. DAV is
an HTTP extension that supports distributed authoring; DeltaV is a DAV
extension that supports versioning. Subversion implements certain parts
of DAV and DeltaV, but by no means all of them. We didn't invent either
protocol extension, though.
--
Brane Čibej <br...@xbc.nu> http://www.xbc.nu/brane/
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Re: windows lusers & linux repository
Posted by Ben Collins-Sussman <su...@collab.net>.
bobby lockes <bo...@yahoo.co.uk> writes:
> Thanks for the reply. My the requirement was that the
> people on the third floor would not have to be taught
> new software whilst maintaining one single active
> version of their documents!
Right. Use SVNAutoversioning, read about it in Appendix D.
> What I'd read on microsofts and subversion site
> yesterday gave me the impression its MS office was
> webDAV enabled and there would be some sort of innate
> version control (at least implementing a locking model
> were only one person can check the document out).
Unfortunately, there's no locking. That might be a showstopper for you.
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Re: windows lusers & linux repository
Posted by pl...@lanminds.com.
>Thanks for the reply. My the requirement was that the
>people on the third floor would not have to be taught
>new software whilst maintaining one single active
>version of their documents!
Well, good luck with that :)
>I was hoping I would not have to install any client software because that means
>the people on the third floor need to be persuaded to use it and shown how
>to use it, reminded to use it and how to use it and helped while they are using it..
As a sysadmin myself, I can completely identify with your hope to not
have to install new software. However, if you want rev-control,
you're going to need to install something. Even if you use MS's VSS
product, you'll still have all these same concerns, since, afaik, no
one has come up with an OS-independant, time-based, revision-control
network file system yet. And, ideally, that's what we all really
need :)
>What I'd read on microsofts and subversion site
>yesterday gave me the impression its MS office was
>webDAV enabled and there would be some sort of innate
>version control (at least implementing a locking model
>were only one person can check the document out).
MS Office does have webDAV capability, though I believe it's more a
feature of the OS, not Office. And I believe, but may be wrong, that
they only slightly tweaked their Office code's normal rev-control
feature to operate with a "Web Folder". I have no idea how well
this works, if at all. Most likely you'll need to be running an IIS
web server to get all the functionality they promise.
The Apache/WebDAV/SVN combination does in fact allow you to mount the
repository as a "Web Folder". WebDAV itself, despite the fact that V
stands for Versioning, does not provide for any versioning
capability. That part is upto the DeltaV protocol. However, the
DeltaV protocol is not yet mature enough, nor moving fast enough to
provide svn with all it needs. Therefore, the SVN repository has some
very specific APIs, which are not part of the standard WebDAV/ DeltaV
protocols.
>I had read on the webDAV site in the FAQ's that DAV
>could replace CVS in the future, but at the moment it
>only employs the locking model.
That is an eventual goal of DAV/DeltaV, but I think it's going to be
a long time in coming.
>I will install tortoise and see how complicated it is.
At the very least, it shouldn't be more complicated than Visual
Source Safe, and the back end repository is a *lot* better and more
flexible :)
I wouldn't worry too much about having to install/support tortoise.
They seem to have a pretty active development group. Try it out, set
up an internal web site with a Wiki, and document as you go. Point
people at the wiki for the basic install/set up procedures and
encourage them to contribute to the docs :)
--
Seeya,
Paul
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Re: windows lusers & linux repository
Posted by bobby lockes <bo...@yahoo.co.uk>.
Paul,
Thanks for the reply. My the requirement was that the
people on the third floor would not have to be taught
new software whilst maintaining one single active
version of their documents! I was hoping I would not
have to install any client software because that means
the people on the third floor need to be persuaded to
use it and shown how to use it, reminded to use it and
how to use it and helped while they are using it..
What I'd read on microsofts and subversion site
yesterday gave me the impression its MS office was
webDAV enabled and there would be some sort of innate
version control (at least implementing a locking model
were only one person can check the document out). I
had read on the webDAV site in the FAQ's that DAV
could replace CVS in the future, but at the moment it
only employs the locking model.
I will install tortoise and see how complicated it is.
thanks,
neil
--- pll@lanminds.com wrote: >
> >Thanks. But if it can't the shard network file
> system
> >can't be written to then it must be a big issue
> with
> >subversion. Do you know if I can achieve a file
> >repository on a shared network drive accessible by
> >windows and linux users using CVS?
> >
> >I'll take a look at tortoise.
>
> What Ben is saying is that the repo, shared out
> under the DAV
> protocol, and accessed by a normal, non-svn DAV
> client, such as
> a Windows or Mac system, using "Web Folders",
> results in a read-only
> file system. This should not be interpreted to mean
> that Windows
> systems can not be used as svn clients. Quite to
> the contrary, there
> are many people using Windows and Macs for
> development with
> Subversion as the back-end revision control system.
>
> This "Web Folder" feature is a side effect of using
> http as the
> network transport for Subversion. However,
> Subversion needed to
> extend this some in order to attain the
> functionality of a rev
> control system since DAV doesn't provide everything.
>
> So, if you only want to *browse* the repo, you can
> do that without
> any special software (great for those management
> types who wish to
> feel like they can look at things and later
> "contribute" their wise
> insights, but not actually change anything :)
>
> Therefore, you can safely avoid installing software
> on people's
> systems who don't really need it, and only worry
> about those who need
> access to the repository.
>
> I hope that helps clear things up a little.
> --
> Seeya,
> Paul
>
> GPG Key fingerprint = 1660 FECC 5D21 D286 F853 E808
> BB07 9239 53F1 28EE
>
> If you're not having fun, you're not doing it
> right!
>
>
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Re: windows lusers & linux repository
Posted by pl...@lanminds.com.
>Thanks. But if it can't the shard network file system
>can't be written to then it must be a big issue with
>subversion. Do you know if I can achieve a file
>repository on a shared network drive accessible by
>windows and linux users using CVS?
>
>I'll take a look at tortoise.
What Ben is saying is that the repo, shared out under the DAV
protocol, and accessed by a normal, non-svn DAV client, such as
a Windows or Mac system, using "Web Folders", results in a read-only
file system. This should not be interpreted to mean that Windows
systems can not be used as svn clients. Quite to the contrary, there
are many people using Windows and Macs for development with
Subversion as the back-end revision control system.
This "Web Folder" feature is a side effect of using http as the
network transport for Subversion. However, Subversion needed to
extend this some in order to attain the functionality of a rev
control system since DAV doesn't provide everything.
So, if you only want to *browse* the repo, you can do that without
any special software (great for those management types who wish to
feel like they can look at things and later "contribute" their wise
insights, but not actually change anything :)
Therefore, you can safely avoid installing software on people's
systems who don't really need it, and only worry about those who need
access to the repository.
I hope that helps clear things up a little.
--
Seeya,
Paul
GPG Key fingerprint = 1660 FECC 5D21 D286 F853 E808 BB07 9239 53F1 28EE
If you're not having fun, you're not doing it right!
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Re: windows lusers & linux repository
Posted by bobby lockes <bo...@yahoo.co.uk>.
Ben
Thanks. But if it can't the shard network file system
can't be written to then it must be a big issue with
subversion. Do you know if I can achieve a file
repository on a shared network drive accessible by
windows and linux users using CVS?
I'll take a look at tortoise.
thanks,
neil
--- Ben Collins-Sussman <su...@collab.net> wrote: >
bobby lockes <bo...@yahoo.co.uk> writes:
>
> > I read on the mailing list that "windows web
> folder"
> > can be used and that "no fancy GUI required". I
> don't
> > know what a windows web folder is
>
> Read appendix D in the subversion book to understand
> how
> operating-system dev clients can interact with the
> svn repository.
>
> In short: it's read-only access, unless you want to
> start fooling
> with a feature called 'autoversioning'.
>
> * On windows 98 or 2000, go to network places and
> 'add a new
> webfolder', and enter the repository URL.
>
> * On XP, "add a new network place" and type the
> repository URL.
>
> * On OS X, it Finder: Go->Connect to Server->
> enter URL.
>
> In all the situations, you'll end up with a
> read-only mounted network
> share.
>
>
> > If a subverison client needs to be installed which
> one is the
> > EASIEST for non-techies to use on windows?
>
> Take a look at http://tortoisesvn.tigris.org
>
>
>
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Re: windows lusers & linux repository
Posted by Ben Collins-Sussman <su...@collab.net>.
bobby lockes <bo...@yahoo.co.uk> writes:
> I read on the mailing list that "windows web folder"
> can be used and that "no fancy GUI required". I don't
> know what a windows web folder is
Read appendix D in the subversion book to understand how
operating-system dev clients can interact with the svn repository.
In short: it's read-only access, unless you want to start fooling
with a feature called 'autoversioning'.
* On windows 98 or 2000, go to network places and 'add a new
webfolder', and enter the repository URL.
* On XP, "add a new network place" and type the repository URL.
* On OS X, it Finder: Go->Connect to Server-> enter URL.
In all the situations, you'll end up with a read-only mounted network
share.
> If a subverison client needs to be installed which one is the
> EASIEST for non-techies to use on windows?
Take a look at http://tortoisesvn.tigris.org
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