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Posted to commits@cassandra.apache.org by "paul cannon (Created) (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org> on 2011/11/18 20:58:51 UTC
[jira] [Created] (CASSANDRA-3507) Proposal: separate cqlsh from CQL
drivers
Proposal: separate cqlsh from CQL drivers
-----------------------------------------
Key: CASSANDRA-3507
URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-3507
Project: Cassandra
Issue Type: Improvement
Components: Packaging, Tools
Affects Versions: 1.0.3
Environment: Debian-based systems
Reporter: paul cannon
Assignee: paul cannon
Priority: Minor
Fix For: 1.0.4
Whereas:
* It has been shown to be very desirable to decouple the release cycles of Cassandra from the various client CQL drivers, and
* It is also desirable to include a good interactive CQL client with releases of Cassandra, and
* It is not desirable for Cassandra releases to depend on 3rd-party software which is neither bundled with Cassandra nor readily available for every target platform, but
* Any good interactive CQL client will require a CQL driver;
Therefore, be it resolved that:
* cqlsh will not use an official or supported CQL driver, but will include its own private CQL driver, not intended for use by anything else, and
* the Cassandra project will still recommend installing and using a proper CQL driver for client software.
To ease maintenance, the private CQL driver included with cqlsh may very well be created by "copying the python CQL driver from one directory into another", but the user shouldn't rely on this. Maybe we even ought to take some minor steps to discourage its use for other purposes.
Thoughts?
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[jira] [Commented] (CASSANDRA-3507) Proposal: separate cqlsh from
CQL drivers
Posted by "Sylvain Lebresne (Commented) (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-3507?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=13179713#comment-13179713 ]
Sylvain Lebresne commented on CASSANDRA-3507:
---------------------------------------------
bq. If we don't mind releasing a C* version for which the existing drivers don't work right, then it probably doesn't matter whether the drivers are available from the cassandra deb repo or not.
It matters because if the driver don't work, cqlsh don't work and thus we would be shipping a release with a regression. If Cassandra don't ship with cqlsh, we don't have this problem. Let's be clear that the choice is between having cqlsh in-tree or not having it, because that's what imply the dependency on the driver. Again, the initial goal was to have C* not depend on any of the driver, based on the idea that drivers may be maintained by other people than us having different schedule than us. Having cqlsh in-tree does create a dependency on the python driver. And while we obviously will want to work with driver maintainers to be sure that when we release incompatible changes, there is preferably at least a few driver supporting it, it's is not the same to say that we will have to wait on the *python* driver before being *able to* release.
Again, I'm just saying that the dependency on the python driver will exist if cqlsh is in tree. Do we think having cqlsh in-tree is worth it? Maybe, but I've seen at least Jonathan and Eric state above that they wouldn't necessarily mind having cqlsh separate, and I've missed the part where they said "ok, I'm convinced, it's worth having cqlsh in-tree". I guess I just want to be sure we have consensus on the choice we make (I'm personally not sure where I stand on this). Maybe I've just missed the part where we did all clearly agree, in which case I apologize for having missing it.
> Proposal: separate cqlsh from CQL drivers
> -----------------------------------------
>
> Key: CASSANDRA-3507
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-3507
> Project: Cassandra
> Issue Type: Improvement
> Components: Packaging, Tools
> Affects Versions: 1.0.3
> Environment: Debian-based systems
> Reporter: paul cannon
> Assignee: paul cannon
> Priority: Blocker
> Labels: cql, cqlsh
> Fix For: 1.0.7
>
>
> Whereas:
> * It has been shown to be very desirable to decouple the release cycles of Cassandra from the various client CQL drivers, and
> * It is also desirable to include a good interactive CQL client with releases of Cassandra, and
> * It is not desirable for Cassandra releases to depend on 3rd-party software which is neither bundled with Cassandra nor readily available for every target platform, but
> * Any good interactive CQL client will require a CQL driver;
> Therefore, be it resolved that:
> * cqlsh will not use an official or supported CQL driver, but will include its own private CQL driver, not intended for use by anything else, and
> * the Cassandra project will still recommend installing and using a proper CQL driver for client software.
> To ease maintenance, the private CQL driver included with cqlsh may very well be created by "copying the python CQL driver from one directory into another", but the user shouldn't rely on this. Maybe we even ought to take some minor steps to discourage its use for other purposes.
> Thoughts?
--
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[jira] [Commented] (CASSANDRA-3507) Proposal: separate cqlsh from
CQL drivers
Posted by "Sylvain Lebresne (Commented) (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-3507?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=13180395#comment-13180395 ]
Sylvain Lebresne commented on CASSANDRA-3507:
---------------------------------------------
bq. The conversation about that, afaict, ended after a general agreement that if we remove cqlsh, we probably want to remove cassandra-cli as well, followed by an objection from Nick
That is what I called "not really having consensus yet" :)
bq. my personal ideal solution would be to take cqlsh out of tree, along with cassandra-cli
I think this has my preference too.
And to try to sum up my 'depency' bits above in debian terms, what I meant is that if cqlsh is in-tree, then we'll have a 'depends: python-cql', while if it is a separate project, we'll have a 'recommends: cqlsh' (and cqlsh will 'depends: python-cql'), thus not putting a dependency of C* to the python driver (then we can decide if we put a version of cqlsh and python-cql in the apache debian repo, but that is kind of a secondary concern imho until we're all clear on the question of including a shell in-tree or not).
> Proposal: separate cqlsh from CQL drivers
> -----------------------------------------
>
> Key: CASSANDRA-3507
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-3507
> Project: Cassandra
> Issue Type: Improvement
> Components: Packaging, Tools
> Affects Versions: 1.0.3
> Environment: Debian-based systems
> Reporter: paul cannon
> Assignee: paul cannon
> Priority: Blocker
> Labels: cql, cqlsh
> Fix For: 1.0.7
>
>
> Whereas:
> * It has been shown to be very desirable to decouple the release cycles of Cassandra from the various client CQL drivers, and
> * It is also desirable to include a good interactive CQL client with releases of Cassandra, and
> * It is not desirable for Cassandra releases to depend on 3rd-party software which is neither bundled with Cassandra nor readily available for every target platform, but
> * Any good interactive CQL client will require a CQL driver;
> Therefore, be it resolved that:
> * cqlsh will not use an official or supported CQL driver, but will include its own private CQL driver, not intended for use by anything else, and
> * the Cassandra project will still recommend installing and using a proper CQL driver for client software.
> To ease maintenance, the private CQL driver included with cqlsh may very well be created by "copying the python CQL driver from one directory into another", but the user shouldn't rely on this. Maybe we even ought to take some minor steps to discourage its use for other purposes.
> Thoughts?
--
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[jira] [Commented] (CASSANDRA-3507) Proposal: separate cqlsh from
CQL drivers
Posted by "paul cannon (Commented) (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-3507?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=13179647#comment-13179647 ]
paul cannon commented on CASSANDRA-3507:
----------------------------------------
bq. I don't think that's the case actually.
Oh, you're right. My mistake, sorry.
bq. Namely, if we do a change in cassandra that require a driver change (granted we don't want to do that too often but that has happen and will undoubtedly happen again), we have to wait on the driver to catch up to release.
This doesn't seem to follow to me. If we don't mind releasing a C* version for which the existing drivers don't work right, then it probably doesn't matter whether the drivers are available from the cassandra deb repo or not. And if we want to be sure the drivers are up-to-date for new C* features before we release a C* version, then we probably want that whether the drivers are available from the cassandra deb repo or not.
> Proposal: separate cqlsh from CQL drivers
> -----------------------------------------
>
> Key: CASSANDRA-3507
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-3507
> Project: Cassandra
> Issue Type: Improvement
> Components: Packaging, Tools
> Affects Versions: 1.0.3
> Environment: Debian-based systems
> Reporter: paul cannon
> Assignee: paul cannon
> Priority: Blocker
> Labels: cql, cqlsh
> Fix For: 1.0.7
>
>
> Whereas:
> * It has been shown to be very desirable to decouple the release cycles of Cassandra from the various client CQL drivers, and
> * It is also desirable to include a good interactive CQL client with releases of Cassandra, and
> * It is not desirable for Cassandra releases to depend on 3rd-party software which is neither bundled with Cassandra nor readily available for every target platform, but
> * Any good interactive CQL client will require a CQL driver;
> Therefore, be it resolved that:
> * cqlsh will not use an official or supported CQL driver, but will include its own private CQL driver, not intended for use by anything else, and
> * the Cassandra project will still recommend installing and using a proper CQL driver for client software.
> To ease maintenance, the private CQL driver included with cqlsh may very well be created by "copying the python CQL driver from one directory into another", but the user shouldn't rely on this. Maybe we even ought to take some minor steps to discourage its use for other purposes.
> Thoughts?
--
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[jira] [Commented] (CASSANDRA-3507) Proposal: separate cqlsh from
CQL drivers
Posted by "Jeremy Hanna (Commented) (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-3507?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=13175316#comment-13175316 ]
Jeremy Hanna commented on CASSANDRA-3507:
-----------------------------------------
Would it be simpler to have a jvm language be the cqlsh language since they already have to have java installed?
Tarball is what people will be downloading on windows and mac osx, which I think make up the majority of those trying out Cassandra. I think it should work out of the box with the tarball, regardless of package dependencies on linux. A side effect of switching to cqlsh should not be to make the install and bootstrap process more complicated. In that sense I agree with Nick.
> Proposal: separate cqlsh from CQL drivers
> -----------------------------------------
>
> Key: CASSANDRA-3507
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-3507
> Project: Cassandra
> Issue Type: Improvement
> Components: Packaging, Tools
> Affects Versions: 1.0.3
> Environment: Debian-based systems
> Reporter: paul cannon
> Assignee: paul cannon
> Priority: Minor
> Labels: cql, cqlsh
> Fix For: 1.1
>
>
> Whereas:
> * It has been shown to be very desirable to decouple the release cycles of Cassandra from the various client CQL drivers, and
> * It is also desirable to include a good interactive CQL client with releases of Cassandra, and
> * It is not desirable for Cassandra releases to depend on 3rd-party software which is neither bundled with Cassandra nor readily available for every target platform, but
> * Any good interactive CQL client will require a CQL driver;
> Therefore, be it resolved that:
> * cqlsh will not use an official or supported CQL driver, but will include its own private CQL driver, not intended for use by anything else, and
> * the Cassandra project will still recommend installing and using a proper CQL driver for client software.
> To ease maintenance, the private CQL driver included with cqlsh may very well be created by "copying the python CQL driver from one directory into another", but the user shouldn't rely on this. Maybe we even ought to take some minor steps to discourage its use for other purposes.
> Thoughts?
--
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[jira] [Commented] (CASSANDRA-3507) Proposal: separate cqlsh from
CQL drivers
Posted by "paul cannon (Commented) (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-3507?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=13180567#comment-13180567 ]
paul cannon commented on CASSANDRA-3507:
----------------------------------------
Here is what might be a helpful thought experiment: _how would this have been solved, if cqlsh had been written in Java, using cassandra-jdbc?_ My estimation was, based on the past, that a cassandra-jdbc jar would probably just be bundled in with C* along with all the others. If that's true, the arguments against bundling cassandra-dbapi2 are not very convincing.
> Proposal: separate cqlsh from CQL drivers
> -----------------------------------------
>
> Key: CASSANDRA-3507
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-3507
> Project: Cassandra
> Issue Type: Improvement
> Components: Packaging, Tools
> Affects Versions: 1.0.3
> Environment: Debian-based systems
> Reporter: paul cannon
> Assignee: paul cannon
> Priority: Blocker
> Labels: cql, cqlsh
> Fix For: 1.0.7
>
>
> Whereas:
> * It has been shown to be very desirable to decouple the release cycles of Cassandra from the various client CQL drivers, and
> * It is also desirable to include a good interactive CQL client with releases of Cassandra, and
> * It is not desirable for Cassandra releases to depend on 3rd-party software which is neither bundled with Cassandra nor readily available for every target platform, but
> * Any good interactive CQL client will require a CQL driver;
> Therefore, be it resolved that:
> * cqlsh will not use an official or supported CQL driver, but will include its own private CQL driver, not intended for use by anything else, and
> * the Cassandra project will still recommend installing and using a proper CQL driver for client software.
> To ease maintenance, the private CQL driver included with cqlsh may very well be created by "copying the python CQL driver from one directory into another", but the user shouldn't rely on this. Maybe we even ought to take some minor steps to discourage its use for other purposes.
> Thoughts?
--
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[jira] [Commented] (CASSANDRA-3507) Proposal: separate cqlsh from
CQL drivers
Posted by "Jonathan Ellis (Commented) (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-3507?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=13175084#comment-13175084 ]
Jonathan Ellis commented on CASSANDRA-3507:
-------------------------------------------
Then the right thing to do is fix our download page. Installing by tarball should be a fireable offense in 2011. :)
> Proposal: separate cqlsh from CQL drivers
> -----------------------------------------
>
> Key: CASSANDRA-3507
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-3507
> Project: Cassandra
> Issue Type: Improvement
> Components: Packaging, Tools
> Affects Versions: 1.0.3
> Environment: Debian-based systems
> Reporter: paul cannon
> Assignee: paul cannon
> Priority: Minor
> Labels: cql, cqlsh
> Fix For: 1.1
>
>
> Whereas:
> * It has been shown to be very desirable to decouple the release cycles of Cassandra from the various client CQL drivers, and
> * It is also desirable to include a good interactive CQL client with releases of Cassandra, and
> * It is not desirable for Cassandra releases to depend on 3rd-party software which is neither bundled with Cassandra nor readily available for every target platform, but
> * Any good interactive CQL client will require a CQL driver;
> Therefore, be it resolved that:
> * cqlsh will not use an official or supported CQL driver, but will include its own private CQL driver, not intended for use by anything else, and
> * the Cassandra project will still recommend installing and using a proper CQL driver for client software.
> To ease maintenance, the private CQL driver included with cqlsh may very well be created by "copying the python CQL driver from one directory into another", but the user shouldn't rely on this. Maybe we even ought to take some minor steps to discourage its use for other purposes.
> Thoughts?
--
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[jira] [Commented] (CASSANDRA-3507) Proposal: separate cqlsh from
CQL drivers
Posted by "paul cannon (Commented) (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-3507?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=13191438#comment-13191438 ]
paul cannon commented on CASSANDRA-3507:
----------------------------------------
In the absence of further input, I'll go ahead with the "remove both cassandra-cli and cqlsh from the tree and package them separately for rpm/deb/tarball" plan.
Let the record show that I would still prefer shipping a private copy of python-cql, as long as the main modus operandi for c* is "bundle all requirements". :P
> Proposal: separate cqlsh from CQL drivers
> -----------------------------------------
>
> Key: CASSANDRA-3507
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-3507
> Project: Cassandra
> Issue Type: Improvement
> Components: Packaging, Tools
> Affects Versions: 1.0.3
> Environment: Debian-based systems
> Reporter: paul cannon
> Assignee: paul cannon
> Priority: Minor
> Labels: cql, cqlsh
> Fix For: 1.1
>
>
> Whereas:
> * It has been shown to be very desirable to decouple the release cycles of Cassandra from the various client CQL drivers, and
> * It is also desirable to include a good interactive CQL client with releases of Cassandra, and
> * It is not desirable for Cassandra releases to depend on 3rd-party software which is neither bundled with Cassandra nor readily available for every target platform, but
> * Any good interactive CQL client will require a CQL driver;
> Therefore, be it resolved that:
> * cqlsh will not use an official or supported CQL driver, but will include its own private CQL driver, not intended for use by anything else, and
> * the Cassandra project will still recommend installing and using a proper CQL driver for client software.
> To ease maintenance, the private CQL driver included with cqlsh may very well be created by "copying the python CQL driver from one directory into another", but the user shouldn't rely on this. Maybe we even ought to take some minor steps to discourage its use for other purposes.
> Thoughts?
--
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[jira] [Commented] (CASSANDRA-3507) Proposal: separate cqlsh from
CQL drivers
Posted by "Jonathan Ellis (Commented) (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-3507?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=13191457#comment-13191457 ]
Jonathan Ellis commented on CASSANDRA-3507:
-------------------------------------------
On IRC I proposed going with "cram python-cql in-tree somewhere" since it's less work than starting up two separate projects with build scripts and so forth (let alone wrestling with the Maven posse). Sounded like people were willing to live with that.
> Proposal: separate cqlsh from CQL drivers
> -----------------------------------------
>
> Key: CASSANDRA-3507
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-3507
> Project: Cassandra
> Issue Type: Improvement
> Components: Packaging, Tools
> Affects Versions: 1.0.3
> Environment: Debian-based systems
> Reporter: paul cannon
> Assignee: paul cannon
> Priority: Minor
> Labels: cql, cqlsh
> Fix For: 1.1
>
>
> Whereas:
> * It has been shown to be very desirable to decouple the release cycles of Cassandra from the various client CQL drivers, and
> * It is also desirable to include a good interactive CQL client with releases of Cassandra, and
> * It is not desirable for Cassandra releases to depend on 3rd-party software which is neither bundled with Cassandra nor readily available for every target platform, but
> * Any good interactive CQL client will require a CQL driver;
> Therefore, be it resolved that:
> * cqlsh will not use an official or supported CQL driver, but will include its own private CQL driver, not intended for use by anything else, and
> * the Cassandra project will still recommend installing and using a proper CQL driver for client software.
> To ease maintenance, the private CQL driver included with cqlsh may very well be created by "copying the python CQL driver from one directory into another", but the user shouldn't rely on this. Maybe we even ought to take some minor steps to discourage its use for other purposes.
> Thoughts?
--
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[jira] [Commented] (CASSANDRA-3507) Proposal: separate cqlsh from
CQL drivers
Posted by "Sylvain Lebresne (Commented) (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-3507?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=13178981#comment-13178981 ]
Sylvain Lebresne commented on CASSANDRA-3507:
---------------------------------------------
So, apparently this is now a blocker because Paul told me that the debian package is broken following the commit of CASSANDRA-3458.
I see two possibility:
# we revert CASSANDRA-3458 so that we can do a release.
# we fix this.
My preference goes to reverting CASSANDRA-3458, because I don't really like that we add something we're only mildly getting consensus on to a 1.0 release.
As a side note, I would have wished we didn't end up in that state of not being able to release because of some debian problem. Please be as careful with change to the debian packaging in stable release as you are with the rest of the code since it's part of the tree.
> Proposal: separate cqlsh from CQL drivers
> -----------------------------------------
>
> Key: CASSANDRA-3507
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-3507
> Project: Cassandra
> Issue Type: Improvement
> Components: Packaging, Tools
> Affects Versions: 1.0.3
> Environment: Debian-based systems
> Reporter: paul cannon
> Assignee: paul cannon
> Priority: Blocker
> Labels: cql, cqlsh
> Fix For: 1.0.7
>
>
> Whereas:
> * It has been shown to be very desirable to decouple the release cycles of Cassandra from the various client CQL drivers, and
> * It is also desirable to include a good interactive CQL client with releases of Cassandra, and
> * It is not desirable for Cassandra releases to depend on 3rd-party software which is neither bundled with Cassandra nor readily available for every target platform, but
> * Any good interactive CQL client will require a CQL driver;
> Therefore, be it resolved that:
> * cqlsh will not use an official or supported CQL driver, but will include its own private CQL driver, not intended for use by anything else, and
> * the Cassandra project will still recommend installing and using a proper CQL driver for client software.
> To ease maintenance, the private CQL driver included with cqlsh may very well be created by "copying the python CQL driver from one directory into another", but the user shouldn't rely on this. Maybe we even ought to take some minor steps to discourage its use for other purposes.
> Thoughts?
--
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[jira] [Commented] (CASSANDRA-3507) Proposal: separate cqlsh from
CQL drivers
Posted by "Jeremy Hanna (Commented) (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-3507?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=13175596#comment-13175596 ]
Jeremy Hanna commented on CASSANDRA-3507:
-----------------------------------------
Makes sense. I hadn't realized so much had gone into the python based shell. I also hadn't realized it could be made into an executable for windows.
> Proposal: separate cqlsh from CQL drivers
> -----------------------------------------
>
> Key: CASSANDRA-3507
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-3507
> Project: Cassandra
> Issue Type: Improvement
> Components: Packaging, Tools
> Affects Versions: 1.0.3
> Environment: Debian-based systems
> Reporter: paul cannon
> Assignee: paul cannon
> Priority: Minor
> Labels: cql, cqlsh
> Fix For: 1.1
>
>
> Whereas:
> * It has been shown to be very desirable to decouple the release cycles of Cassandra from the various client CQL drivers, and
> * It is also desirable to include a good interactive CQL client with releases of Cassandra, and
> * It is not desirable for Cassandra releases to depend on 3rd-party software which is neither bundled with Cassandra nor readily available for every target platform, but
> * Any good interactive CQL client will require a CQL driver;
> Therefore, be it resolved that:
> * cqlsh will not use an official or supported CQL driver, but will include its own private CQL driver, not intended for use by anything else, and
> * the Cassandra project will still recommend installing and using a proper CQL driver for client software.
> To ease maintenance, the private CQL driver included with cqlsh may very well be created by "copying the python CQL driver from one directory into another", but the user shouldn't rely on this. Maybe we even ought to take some minor steps to discourage its use for other purposes.
> Thoughts?
--
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[jira] [Commented] (CASSANDRA-3507) Proposal: separate cqlsh from
CQL drivers
Posted by "paul cannon (Commented) (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-3507?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=13179010#comment-13179010 ]
paul cannon commented on CASSANDRA-3507:
----------------------------------------
(Jonathan)
bq. Really? It feels weird to have a PMC vote on artifacts for something they don't develop.
Should that be any more weird than having a vote on artifacts which _contain_ other artifacts that the PMC doesn't develop? It seems to me like the C* PMC also puts its stamp of support+approval on snakeyaml, Thrift, and all the rest, by including them in the voted sources and artifacts.
But whether it's weird or not, yeah, I couldn't find anything prohibiting it.
bq. (While there is overlap between the python cql driver and our PMC, it's not entirely the same thing and it's likely to diverge further in the future, or at least that was the idea of hosting drivers out of tree.)
I thought the idea of out-of-tree drivers was so that they could be released out of sync with C* itself. But if the maintainer-sets for python-cql and c* do diverge in the future, the PMC would still need to decide if it is going to "support" that driver or not. If so, no reason not to ship it. If not, don't.
(Sylvain)
bq. But in a minor release, anything that require more than 'apt-get update' from the user is a regression from his point of view.
Agreed. But that regression already occurred, in 1.0.6- I'm just suggesting we fix that regression by shipping the missing component, rather than by backing out the change entirely. But either way is good.
bq. I don't know. I mean that there has been a number of comments on that issue, and some doubt on what we can and cannot do
I haven't seen any doubt expressed since my last proposal, except Jonathan's comment replied to above.
bq. (it would be counter-productive to start doing this some way to change it in two release, so we'd better make sure we're covered on that
Agreed.
> Proposal: separate cqlsh from CQL drivers
> -----------------------------------------
>
> Key: CASSANDRA-3507
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-3507
> Project: Cassandra
> Issue Type: Improvement
> Components: Packaging, Tools
> Affects Versions: 1.0.3
> Environment: Debian-based systems
> Reporter: paul cannon
> Assignee: paul cannon
> Priority: Blocker
> Labels: cql, cqlsh
> Fix For: 1.0.7
>
>
> Whereas:
> * It has been shown to be very desirable to decouple the release cycles of Cassandra from the various client CQL drivers, and
> * It is also desirable to include a good interactive CQL client with releases of Cassandra, and
> * It is not desirable for Cassandra releases to depend on 3rd-party software which is neither bundled with Cassandra nor readily available for every target platform, but
> * Any good interactive CQL client will require a CQL driver;
> Therefore, be it resolved that:
> * cqlsh will not use an official or supported CQL driver, but will include its own private CQL driver, not intended for use by anything else, and
> * the Cassandra project will still recommend installing and using a proper CQL driver for client software.
> To ease maintenance, the private CQL driver included with cqlsh may very well be created by "copying the python CQL driver from one directory into another", but the user shouldn't rely on this. Maybe we even ought to take some minor steps to discourage its use for other purposes.
> Thoughts?
--
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[jira] [Commented] (CASSANDRA-3507) Proposal: separate cqlsh from
CQL drivers
Posted by "Eric Evans (Commented) (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-3507?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=13180063#comment-13180063 ]
Eric Evans commented on CASSANDRA-3507:
---------------------------------------
bq. To sum up, my personal ideal solution would be to take cqlsh out of tree, along with cassandra-cli (and, actually, all the other bundled dependencies) and use package relationships to manage all that complexity (and just give tarball users a nice long installation readme).
+1
We could probably do better than a "nice long installation readme" though. Once, for a brief time, we were free of embedded dependencies. Tarball users would fetch them with Ivy (that was before we were all mavened up). Something like that could be done again for people who want to go about things the Hard Way.
bq. But if we want something built in to the main official C* tarball to allow talking to C* once it's running, I think we have to include cqlsh — based on the premise that the project wants cql to be the preferred mode of interface. If we include cassandra-cli but not cqlsh, cql will remain second-class. If we don't care about that, then yay, definitely we should leave cqlsh out.
I feel like I missed something important. The description called for bundling a private copy of the driver. This seems to be identical to how we currently handle all of our other external dependencies. Is that off the table now?
> Proposal: separate cqlsh from CQL drivers
> -----------------------------------------
>
> Key: CASSANDRA-3507
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-3507
> Project: Cassandra
> Issue Type: Improvement
> Components: Packaging, Tools
> Affects Versions: 1.0.3
> Environment: Debian-based systems
> Reporter: paul cannon
> Assignee: paul cannon
> Priority: Blocker
> Labels: cql, cqlsh
> Fix For: 1.0.7
>
>
> Whereas:
> * It has been shown to be very desirable to decouple the release cycles of Cassandra from the various client CQL drivers, and
> * It is also desirable to include a good interactive CQL client with releases of Cassandra, and
> * It is not desirable for Cassandra releases to depend on 3rd-party software which is neither bundled with Cassandra nor readily available for every target platform, but
> * Any good interactive CQL client will require a CQL driver;
> Therefore, be it resolved that:
> * cqlsh will not use an official or supported CQL driver, but will include its own private CQL driver, not intended for use by anything else, and
> * the Cassandra project will still recommend installing and using a proper CQL driver for client software.
> To ease maintenance, the private CQL driver included with cqlsh may very well be created by "copying the python CQL driver from one directory into another", but the user shouldn't rely on this. Maybe we even ought to take some minor steps to discourage its use for other purposes.
> Thoughts?
--
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[jira] [Commented] (CASSANDRA-3507) Proposal: separate cqlsh from
CQL drivers
Posted by "T Jake Luciani (Commented) (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-3507?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=13180608#comment-13180608 ]
T Jake Luciani commented on CASSANDRA-3507:
-------------------------------------------
It it was written in java then a dependency would be added to build.xml to pull jdbc in from maven. so at compile time it would download the jar. from there it would be bundled. So you get the benefit of a remote dependency without requiring packaging changes.
> Proposal: separate cqlsh from CQL drivers
> -----------------------------------------
>
> Key: CASSANDRA-3507
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-3507
> Project: Cassandra
> Issue Type: Improvement
> Components: Packaging, Tools
> Affects Versions: 1.0.3
> Environment: Debian-based systems
> Reporter: paul cannon
> Assignee: paul cannon
> Priority: Blocker
> Labels: cql, cqlsh
> Fix For: 1.0.7
>
>
> Whereas:
> * It has been shown to be very desirable to decouple the release cycles of Cassandra from the various client CQL drivers, and
> * It is also desirable to include a good interactive CQL client with releases of Cassandra, and
> * It is not desirable for Cassandra releases to depend on 3rd-party software which is neither bundled with Cassandra nor readily available for every target platform, but
> * Any good interactive CQL client will require a CQL driver;
> Therefore, be it resolved that:
> * cqlsh will not use an official or supported CQL driver, but will include its own private CQL driver, not intended for use by anything else, and
> * the Cassandra project will still recommend installing and using a proper CQL driver for client software.
> To ease maintenance, the private CQL driver included with cqlsh may very well be created by "copying the python CQL driver from one directory into another", but the user shouldn't rely on this. Maybe we even ought to take some minor steps to discourage its use for other purposes.
> Thoughts?
--
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[jira] [Updated] (CASSANDRA-3507) Proposal: separate cqlsh from CQL
drivers
Posted by "Sylvain Lebresne (Updated) (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-3507?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:all-tabpanel ]
Sylvain Lebresne updated CASSANDRA-3507:
----------------------------------------
Priority: Minor (was: Blocker)
Fix Version/s: (was: 1.0.7)
1.1
> Proposal: separate cqlsh from CQL drivers
> -----------------------------------------
>
> Key: CASSANDRA-3507
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-3507
> Project: Cassandra
> Issue Type: Improvement
> Components: Packaging, Tools
> Affects Versions: 1.0.3
> Environment: Debian-based systems
> Reporter: paul cannon
> Assignee: paul cannon
> Priority: Minor
> Labels: cql, cqlsh
> Fix For: 1.1
>
>
> Whereas:
> * It has been shown to be very desirable to decouple the release cycles of Cassandra from the various client CQL drivers, and
> * It is also desirable to include a good interactive CQL client with releases of Cassandra, and
> * It is not desirable for Cassandra releases to depend on 3rd-party software which is neither bundled with Cassandra nor readily available for every target platform, but
> * Any good interactive CQL client will require a CQL driver;
> Therefore, be it resolved that:
> * cqlsh will not use an official or supported CQL driver, but will include its own private CQL driver, not intended for use by anything else, and
> * the Cassandra project will still recommend installing and using a proper CQL driver for client software.
> To ease maintenance, the private CQL driver included with cqlsh may very well be created by "copying the python CQL driver from one directory into another", but the user shouldn't rely on this. Maybe we even ought to take some minor steps to discourage its use for other purposes.
> Thoughts?
--
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[jira] [Commented] (CASSANDRA-3507) Proposal: separate cqlsh from
CQL drivers
Posted by "paul cannon (Commented) (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-3507?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=13176341#comment-13176341 ]
paul cannon commented on CASSANDRA-3507:
----------------------------------------
bq. Is it possible for the ASF contributors to vote on code that isn't in the official tree, like, say, a particular tag of the python CQL driver at Apache Extras? If we can distribute the drivers in the same official repository, most of these problems go away.
I read through all the rules I can find, and I see nothing prohibiting us from voting on and "releasing" specific source/binary artifacts of the various cql drivers alongside c*, as long as they follow the ASF licensing restrictions.
http://www.apache.org/dev/release.html#distribute-other-artifacts seems the most apropos.
So, I propose that we call a vote for a Cassandra project release of cassandra-dbapi2, alias python-cql, once I get the ASF licensing stuff sorted in it, and tag and post its 1.0.7 version. Then we can put the python-cql debs in the official debian repository, and everything is happy.
> Proposal: separate cqlsh from CQL drivers
> -----------------------------------------
>
> Key: CASSANDRA-3507
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-3507
> Project: Cassandra
> Issue Type: Improvement
> Components: Packaging, Tools
> Affects Versions: 1.0.3
> Environment: Debian-based systems
> Reporter: paul cannon
> Assignee: paul cannon
> Priority: Minor
> Labels: cql, cqlsh
> Fix For: 1.1
>
>
> Whereas:
> * It has been shown to be very desirable to decouple the release cycles of Cassandra from the various client CQL drivers, and
> * It is also desirable to include a good interactive CQL client with releases of Cassandra, and
> * It is not desirable for Cassandra releases to depend on 3rd-party software which is neither bundled with Cassandra nor readily available for every target platform, but
> * Any good interactive CQL client will require a CQL driver;
> Therefore, be it resolved that:
> * cqlsh will not use an official or supported CQL driver, but will include its own private CQL driver, not intended for use by anything else, and
> * the Cassandra project will still recommend installing and using a proper CQL driver for client software.
> To ease maintenance, the private CQL driver included with cqlsh may very well be created by "copying the python CQL driver from one directory into another", but the user shouldn't rely on this. Maybe we even ought to take some minor steps to discourage its use for other purposes.
> Thoughts?
--
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[jira] [Commented] (CASSANDRA-3507) Proposal: separate cqlsh from
CQL drivers
Posted by "paul cannon (Commented) (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-3507?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=13175025#comment-13175025 ]
paul cannon commented on CASSANDRA-3507:
----------------------------------------
Another solution proposed by eevans on irc:
bq. 14:01 <urandom> my personal opinion would be that cqlsh should be a different project (whether that means coupled with the driver, or stand-alone). if that means that -cli is implicitly made more official when we'd rather it not be, then it should be removed
bq. 14:01 <urandom> but then, I know I'm in the minority in thinking that we don't need to be quite so batteries included on everything
> Proposal: separate cqlsh from CQL drivers
> -----------------------------------------
>
> Key: CASSANDRA-3507
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-3507
> Project: Cassandra
> Issue Type: Improvement
> Components: Packaging, Tools
> Affects Versions: 1.0.3
> Environment: Debian-based systems
> Reporter: paul cannon
> Assignee: paul cannon
> Priority: Minor
> Labels: cql, cqlsh
> Fix For: 1.0.7
>
>
> Whereas:
> * It has been shown to be very desirable to decouple the release cycles of Cassandra from the various client CQL drivers, and
> * It is also desirable to include a good interactive CQL client with releases of Cassandra, and
> * It is not desirable for Cassandra releases to depend on 3rd-party software which is neither bundled with Cassandra nor readily available for every target platform, but
> * Any good interactive CQL client will require a CQL driver;
> Therefore, be it resolved that:
> * cqlsh will not use an official or supported CQL driver, but will include its own private CQL driver, not intended for use by anything else, and
> * the Cassandra project will still recommend installing and using a proper CQL driver for client software.
> To ease maintenance, the private CQL driver included with cqlsh may very well be created by "copying the python CQL driver from one directory into another", but the user shouldn't rely on this. Maybe we even ought to take some minor steps to discourage its use for other purposes.
> Thoughts?
--
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[jira] [Commented] (CASSANDRA-3507) Proposal: separate cqlsh from
CQL drivers
Posted by "T Jake Luciani (Commented) (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-3507?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=13180628#comment-13180628 ]
T Jake Luciani commented on CASSANDRA-3507:
-------------------------------------------
oh, hmm you are right, i forgot we do both...
> Proposal: separate cqlsh from CQL drivers
> -----------------------------------------
>
> Key: CASSANDRA-3507
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-3507
> Project: Cassandra
> Issue Type: Improvement
> Components: Packaging, Tools
> Affects Versions: 1.0.3
> Environment: Debian-based systems
> Reporter: paul cannon
> Assignee: paul cannon
> Priority: Blocker
> Labels: cql, cqlsh
> Fix For: 1.0.7
>
>
> Whereas:
> * It has been shown to be very desirable to decouple the release cycles of Cassandra from the various client CQL drivers, and
> * It is also desirable to include a good interactive CQL client with releases of Cassandra, and
> * It is not desirable for Cassandra releases to depend on 3rd-party software which is neither bundled with Cassandra nor readily available for every target platform, but
> * Any good interactive CQL client will require a CQL driver;
> Therefore, be it resolved that:
> * cqlsh will not use an official or supported CQL driver, but will include its own private CQL driver, not intended for use by anything else, and
> * the Cassandra project will still recommend installing and using a proper CQL driver for client software.
> To ease maintenance, the private CQL driver included with cqlsh may very well be created by "copying the python CQL driver from one directory into another", but the user shouldn't rely on this. Maybe we even ought to take some minor steps to discourage its use for other purposes.
> Thoughts?
--
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[jira] [Commented] (CASSANDRA-3507) Proposal: separate cqlsh from
CQL drivers
Posted by "paul cannon (Commented) (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-3507?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=13180563#comment-13180563 ]
paul cannon commented on CASSANDRA-3507:
----------------------------------------
bq. And to try to sum up my 'depency' bits above in debian terms, what I meant is that if cqlsh is in-tree, then we'll have a 'depends: python-cql', while if it is a separate project, we'll have a 'recommends: cqlsh' (and cqlsh will 'depends: python-cql')
I did understand what you meant, but I disagree here- I don't think putting cqlsh in-tree or not has much effect on whether we want to declare it as a strong dependency ("Depends:") of cassandra. I.e., if we don't consider it important enough that all users should have it, then we have either:
{noformat}
Package: cassandra
Recommends: cqlsh
Package: cqlsh
Depends: python-cql
{noformat}
or
{noformat}
Package: cassandra
Recommends: python-cql
{noformat}
And if it _is_ important enough, then we have either
{noformat}
Package: cassandra
Depends: cqlsh
Package: cqlsh
Depends: python-cql
{noformat}
or
{noformat}
Package: cassandra
Depends: python-cql
{noformat}
> Proposal: separate cqlsh from CQL drivers
> -----------------------------------------
>
> Key: CASSANDRA-3507
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-3507
> Project: Cassandra
> Issue Type: Improvement
> Components: Packaging, Tools
> Affects Versions: 1.0.3
> Environment: Debian-based systems
> Reporter: paul cannon
> Assignee: paul cannon
> Priority: Blocker
> Labels: cql, cqlsh
> Fix For: 1.0.7
>
>
> Whereas:
> * It has been shown to be very desirable to decouple the release cycles of Cassandra from the various client CQL drivers, and
> * It is also desirable to include a good interactive CQL client with releases of Cassandra, and
> * It is not desirable for Cassandra releases to depend on 3rd-party software which is neither bundled with Cassandra nor readily available for every target platform, but
> * Any good interactive CQL client will require a CQL driver;
> Therefore, be it resolved that:
> * cqlsh will not use an official or supported CQL driver, but will include its own private CQL driver, not intended for use by anything else, and
> * the Cassandra project will still recommend installing and using a proper CQL driver for client software.
> To ease maintenance, the private CQL driver included with cqlsh may very well be created by "copying the python CQL driver from one directory into another", but the user shouldn't rely on this. Maybe we even ought to take some minor steps to discourage its use for other purposes.
> Thoughts?
--
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[jira] [Commented] (CASSANDRA-3507) Proposal: separate cqlsh from
CQL drivers
Posted by "paul cannon (Commented) (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-3507?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=13175574#comment-13175574 ]
paul cannon commented on CASSANDRA-3507:
----------------------------------------
All default Linux-based OS installs include Python nowadays, and so does Mac OS X. A py2exe compilation of cqlsh, along with a gui shell like IDLE, is a possibility for the Windows side. So no, there's no reason that switching to cqlsh should make the install or bootstrap processes more complicated.
Also, cqlsh is already written in python, and includes a lot of features which would probably be overly difficult or time-consuming to rewrite on the JVM.
> Proposal: separate cqlsh from CQL drivers
> -----------------------------------------
>
> Key: CASSANDRA-3507
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-3507
> Project: Cassandra
> Issue Type: Improvement
> Components: Packaging, Tools
> Affects Versions: 1.0.3
> Environment: Debian-based systems
> Reporter: paul cannon
> Assignee: paul cannon
> Priority: Minor
> Labels: cql, cqlsh
> Fix For: 1.1
>
>
> Whereas:
> * It has been shown to be very desirable to decouple the release cycles of Cassandra from the various client CQL drivers, and
> * It is also desirable to include a good interactive CQL client with releases of Cassandra, and
> * It is not desirable for Cassandra releases to depend on 3rd-party software which is neither bundled with Cassandra nor readily available for every target platform, but
> * Any good interactive CQL client will require a CQL driver;
> Therefore, be it resolved that:
> * cqlsh will not use an official or supported CQL driver, but will include its own private CQL driver, not intended for use by anything else, and
> * the Cassandra project will still recommend installing and using a proper CQL driver for client software.
> To ease maintenance, the private CQL driver included with cqlsh may very well be created by "copying the python CQL driver from one directory into another", but the user shouldn't rely on this. Maybe we even ought to take some minor steps to discourage its use for other purposes.
> Thoughts?
--
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[jira] [Issue Comment Edited] (CASSANDRA-3507) Proposal: separate
cqlsh from CQL drivers
Posted by "T Jake Luciani (Issue Comment Edited) (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-3507?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=13180608#comment-13180608 ]
T Jake Luciani edited comment on CASSANDRA-3507 at 1/5/12 5:39 PM:
-------------------------------------------------------------------
If it was written in java then a dependency would be added to build.xml to pull jdbc in from maven. so at compile time it would download the jar. from there it would be bundled. So you get the benefit of a remote dependency without requiring packaging changes.
was (Author: tjake):
It it was written in java then a dependency would be added to build.xml to pull jdbc in from maven. so at compile time it would download the jar. from there it would be bundled. So you get the benefit of a remote dependency without requiring packaging changes.
> Proposal: separate cqlsh from CQL drivers
> -----------------------------------------
>
> Key: CASSANDRA-3507
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-3507
> Project: Cassandra
> Issue Type: Improvement
> Components: Packaging, Tools
> Affects Versions: 1.0.3
> Environment: Debian-based systems
> Reporter: paul cannon
> Assignee: paul cannon
> Priority: Blocker
> Labels: cql, cqlsh
> Fix For: 1.0.7
>
>
> Whereas:
> * It has been shown to be very desirable to decouple the release cycles of Cassandra from the various client CQL drivers, and
> * It is also desirable to include a good interactive CQL client with releases of Cassandra, and
> * It is not desirable for Cassandra releases to depend on 3rd-party software which is neither bundled with Cassandra nor readily available for every target platform, but
> * Any good interactive CQL client will require a CQL driver;
> Therefore, be it resolved that:
> * cqlsh will not use an official or supported CQL driver, but will include its own private CQL driver, not intended for use by anything else, and
> * the Cassandra project will still recommend installing and using a proper CQL driver for client software.
> To ease maintenance, the private CQL driver included with cqlsh may very well be created by "copying the python CQL driver from one directory into another", but the user shouldn't rely on this. Maybe we even ought to take some minor steps to discourage its use for other purposes.
> Thoughts?
--
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[jira] [Commented] (CASSANDRA-3507) Proposal: separate cqlsh from
CQL drivers
Posted by "Jonathan Ellis (Commented) (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-3507?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=13191445#comment-13191445 ]
Jonathan Ellis commented on CASSANDRA-3507:
-------------------------------------------
I'm +0 on both plans really. But -1 on going to extra effort to obfuscate the cql driver.
> Proposal: separate cqlsh from CQL drivers
> -----------------------------------------
>
> Key: CASSANDRA-3507
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-3507
> Project: Cassandra
> Issue Type: Improvement
> Components: Packaging, Tools
> Affects Versions: 1.0.3
> Environment: Debian-based systems
> Reporter: paul cannon
> Assignee: paul cannon
> Priority: Minor
> Labels: cql, cqlsh
> Fix For: 1.1
>
>
> Whereas:
> * It has been shown to be very desirable to decouple the release cycles of Cassandra from the various client CQL drivers, and
> * It is also desirable to include a good interactive CQL client with releases of Cassandra, and
> * It is not desirable for Cassandra releases to depend on 3rd-party software which is neither bundled with Cassandra nor readily available for every target platform, but
> * Any good interactive CQL client will require a CQL driver;
> Therefore, be it resolved that:
> * cqlsh will not use an official or supported CQL driver, but will include its own private CQL driver, not intended for use by anything else, and
> * the Cassandra project will still recommend installing and using a proper CQL driver for client software.
> To ease maintenance, the private CQL driver included with cqlsh may very well be created by "copying the python CQL driver from one directory into another", but the user shouldn't rely on this. Maybe we even ought to take some minor steps to discourage its use for other purposes.
> Thoughts?
--
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[jira] [Commented] (CASSANDRA-3507) Proposal: separate cqlsh from
CQL drivers
Posted by "Jonathan Ellis (Commented) (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-3507?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=13154222#comment-13154222 ]
Jonathan Ellis commented on CASSANDRA-3507:
-------------------------------------------
bq. One option would be to script generate some obfuscation
Ugh.
Should we just spin cqlsh out to a separate project? I don't think it belongs in the dbapi tree either.
> Proposal: separate cqlsh from CQL drivers
> -----------------------------------------
>
> Key: CASSANDRA-3507
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-3507
> Project: Cassandra
> Issue Type: Improvement
> Components: Packaging, Tools
> Affects Versions: 1.0.3
> Environment: Debian-based systems
> Reporter: paul cannon
> Assignee: paul cannon
> Priority: Minor
> Labels: cql, cqlsh
> Fix For: 1.0.4
>
>
> Whereas:
> * It has been shown to be very desirable to decouple the release cycles of Cassandra from the various client CQL drivers, and
> * It is also desirable to include a good interactive CQL client with releases of Cassandra, and
> * It is not desirable for Cassandra releases to depend on 3rd-party software which is neither bundled with Cassandra nor readily available for every target platform, but
> * Any good interactive CQL client will require a CQL driver;
> Therefore, be it resolved that:
> * cqlsh will not use an official or supported CQL driver, but will include its own private CQL driver, not intended for use by anything else, and
> * the Cassandra project will still recommend installing and using a proper CQL driver for client software.
> To ease maintenance, the private CQL driver included with cqlsh may very well be created by "copying the python CQL driver from one directory into another", but the user shouldn't rely on this. Maybe we even ought to take some minor steps to discourage its use for other purposes.
> Thoughts?
--
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[jira] [Commented] (CASSANDRA-3507) Proposal: separate cqlsh from
CQL drivers
Posted by "Nick Bailey (Commented) (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-3507?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=13175079#comment-13175079 ]
Nick Bailey commented on CASSANDRA-3507:
----------------------------------------
Thats only valid for users that install using a package. If you go to www.cassandra.apache.org you see a big download button for the binary tarball. Even the debian repositories we host are only mentioned if you wade into the wiki. The majority of users who just want to try cassandra are just going to go to the website and click the download button.
> Proposal: separate cqlsh from CQL drivers
> -----------------------------------------
>
> Key: CASSANDRA-3507
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-3507
> Project: Cassandra
> Issue Type: Improvement
> Components: Packaging, Tools
> Affects Versions: 1.0.3
> Environment: Debian-based systems
> Reporter: paul cannon
> Assignee: paul cannon
> Priority: Minor
> Labels: cql, cqlsh
> Fix For: 1.1
>
>
> Whereas:
> * It has been shown to be very desirable to decouple the release cycles of Cassandra from the various client CQL drivers, and
> * It is also desirable to include a good interactive CQL client with releases of Cassandra, and
> * It is not desirable for Cassandra releases to depend on 3rd-party software which is neither bundled with Cassandra nor readily available for every target platform, but
> * Any good interactive CQL client will require a CQL driver;
> Therefore, be it resolved that:
> * cqlsh will not use an official or supported CQL driver, but will include its own private CQL driver, not intended for use by anything else, and
> * the Cassandra project will still recommend installing and using a proper CQL driver for client software.
> To ease maintenance, the private CQL driver included with cqlsh may very well be created by "copying the python CQL driver from one directory into another", but the user shouldn't rely on this. Maybe we even ought to take some minor steps to discourage its use for other purposes.
> Thoughts?
--
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[jira] [Commented] (CASSANDRA-3507) Proposal: separate cqlsh from
CQL drivers
Posted by "Nick Bailey (Commented) (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-3507?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=13175058#comment-13175058 ]
Nick Bailey commented on CASSANDRA-3507:
----------------------------------------
Personally I think the user experience is significantly decreased if users have to download/build/install a separate project in order to actually interact with cassandra once it's running. The first thing a user is going to do after starting cassandra is try and figure out how to insert/retrieve data. Requiring that they download a different project in order to do that seems unnecessarily confusing.
> Proposal: separate cqlsh from CQL drivers
> -----------------------------------------
>
> Key: CASSANDRA-3507
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-3507
> Project: Cassandra
> Issue Type: Improvement
> Components: Packaging, Tools
> Affects Versions: 1.0.3
> Environment: Debian-based systems
> Reporter: paul cannon
> Assignee: paul cannon
> Priority: Minor
> Labels: cql, cqlsh
> Fix For: 1.0.7
>
>
> Whereas:
> * It has been shown to be very desirable to decouple the release cycles of Cassandra from the various client CQL drivers, and
> * It is also desirable to include a good interactive CQL client with releases of Cassandra, and
> * It is not desirable for Cassandra releases to depend on 3rd-party software which is neither bundled with Cassandra nor readily available for every target platform, but
> * Any good interactive CQL client will require a CQL driver;
> Therefore, be it resolved that:
> * cqlsh will not use an official or supported CQL driver, but will include its own private CQL driver, not intended for use by anything else, and
> * the Cassandra project will still recommend installing and using a proper CQL driver for client software.
> To ease maintenance, the private CQL driver included with cqlsh may very well be created by "copying the python CQL driver from one directory into another", but the user shouldn't rely on this. Maybe we even ought to take some minor steps to discourage its use for other purposes.
> Thoughts?
--
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[jira] [Commented] (CASSANDRA-3507) Proposal: separate cqlsh from
CQL drivers
Posted by "Jonathan Ellis (Commented) (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-3507?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=13175072#comment-13175072 ]
Jonathan Ellis commented on CASSANDRA-3507:
-------------------------------------------
In my mind, that's what package dependencies are for.
> Proposal: separate cqlsh from CQL drivers
> -----------------------------------------
>
> Key: CASSANDRA-3507
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-3507
> Project: Cassandra
> Issue Type: Improvement
> Components: Packaging, Tools
> Affects Versions: 1.0.3
> Environment: Debian-based systems
> Reporter: paul cannon
> Assignee: paul cannon
> Priority: Minor
> Labels: cql, cqlsh
> Fix For: 1.1
>
>
> Whereas:
> * It has been shown to be very desirable to decouple the release cycles of Cassandra from the various client CQL drivers, and
> * It is also desirable to include a good interactive CQL client with releases of Cassandra, and
> * It is not desirable for Cassandra releases to depend on 3rd-party software which is neither bundled with Cassandra nor readily available for every target platform, but
> * Any good interactive CQL client will require a CQL driver;
> Therefore, be it resolved that:
> * cqlsh will not use an official or supported CQL driver, but will include its own private CQL driver, not intended for use by anything else, and
> * the Cassandra project will still recommend installing and using a proper CQL driver for client software.
> To ease maintenance, the private CQL driver included with cqlsh may very well be created by "copying the python CQL driver from one directory into another", but the user shouldn't rely on this. Maybe we even ought to take some minor steps to discourage its use for other purposes.
> Thoughts?
--
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[jira] [Commented] (CASSANDRA-3507) Proposal: separate cqlsh from
CQL drivers
Posted by "paul cannon (Commented) (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-3507?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=13179737#comment-13179737 ]
paul cannon commented on CASSANDRA-3507:
----------------------------------------
bq. Maybe, but I've seen at least Jonathan and Eric state above that they wouldn't necessarily mind having cqlsh separate, and I've missed the part where they said "ok, I'm convinced, it's worth having cqlsh in-tree".
The conversation about that, afaict, ended after a general agreement that if we remove cqlsh, we probably want to remove cassandra-cli as well, followed by an objection from Nick that "Personally I think the user experience is significantly decreased if users have to download/build/install a separate project in order to actually interact with cassandra once it's running."
To sum up, my personal ideal solution would be to take cqlsh out of tree, along with cassandra-cli (and, actually, all the other bundled dependencies) and use package relationships to manage all that complexity (and just give tarball users a nice long installation readme).
But _if_ we want something built in to the main official C* tarball to allow talking to C* once it's running, I think we have to include cqlsh — based on the premise that the project wants cql to be the preferred mode of interface. If we include cassandra-cli but not cqlsh, cql will remain second-class. If we don't care about that, then yay, definitely we should leave cqlsh out.
> Proposal: separate cqlsh from CQL drivers
> -----------------------------------------
>
> Key: CASSANDRA-3507
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-3507
> Project: Cassandra
> Issue Type: Improvement
> Components: Packaging, Tools
> Affects Versions: 1.0.3
> Environment: Debian-based systems
> Reporter: paul cannon
> Assignee: paul cannon
> Priority: Blocker
> Labels: cql, cqlsh
> Fix For: 1.0.7
>
>
> Whereas:
> * It has been shown to be very desirable to decouple the release cycles of Cassandra from the various client CQL drivers, and
> * It is also desirable to include a good interactive CQL client with releases of Cassandra, and
> * It is not desirable for Cassandra releases to depend on 3rd-party software which is neither bundled with Cassandra nor readily available for every target platform, but
> * Any good interactive CQL client will require a CQL driver;
> Therefore, be it resolved that:
> * cqlsh will not use an official or supported CQL driver, but will include its own private CQL driver, not intended for use by anything else, and
> * the Cassandra project will still recommend installing and using a proper CQL driver for client software.
> To ease maintenance, the private CQL driver included with cqlsh may very well be created by "copying the python CQL driver from one directory into another", but the user shouldn't rely on this. Maybe we even ought to take some minor steps to discourage its use for other purposes.
> Thoughts?
--
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[jira] [Commented] (CASSANDRA-3507) Proposal: separate cqlsh from
CQL drivers
Posted by "paul cannon (Commented) (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-3507?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=13178993#comment-13178993 ]
paul cannon commented on CASSANDRA-3507:
----------------------------------------
bq. Please be as careful with change to the debian packaging in stable release as you are with the rest of the code since it's part of the tree.
That's a little harsh- the debian package and the packaging aren't technically broken, they just require users to add a 3rd-party apt source or install a python-cql deb locally. But yeah, I doubt users really appreciate that distinction much.
bq. My preference goes to reverting CASSANDRA-3458, because I don't really like that we add something we're only mildly getting consensus on to a 1.0 release.
Do you mean we don't have strong consensus on including cqlsh in the official C* debs? Or that we don't have strong consensus on my proposal for a solution? I haven't seen any signs of disagreement in either case yet.
I'm +0 for just shipping a python-cql deb so that these problems get fixed, rather than putting them off, but I understand the need for stability.
> Proposal: separate cqlsh from CQL drivers
> -----------------------------------------
>
> Key: CASSANDRA-3507
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-3507
> Project: Cassandra
> Issue Type: Improvement
> Components: Packaging, Tools
> Affects Versions: 1.0.3
> Environment: Debian-based systems
> Reporter: paul cannon
> Assignee: paul cannon
> Priority: Blocker
> Labels: cql, cqlsh
> Fix For: 1.0.7
>
>
> Whereas:
> * It has been shown to be very desirable to decouple the release cycles of Cassandra from the various client CQL drivers, and
> * It is also desirable to include a good interactive CQL client with releases of Cassandra, and
> * It is not desirable for Cassandra releases to depend on 3rd-party software which is neither bundled with Cassandra nor readily available for every target platform, but
> * Any good interactive CQL client will require a CQL driver;
> Therefore, be it resolved that:
> * cqlsh will not use an official or supported CQL driver, but will include its own private CQL driver, not intended for use by anything else, and
> * the Cassandra project will still recommend installing and using a proper CQL driver for client software.
> To ease maintenance, the private CQL driver included with cqlsh may very well be created by "copying the python CQL driver from one directory into another", but the user shouldn't rely on this. Maybe we even ought to take some minor steps to discourage its use for other purposes.
> Thoughts?
--
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[jira] [Commented] (CASSANDRA-3507) Proposal: separate cqlsh from
CQL drivers
Posted by "Sylvain Lebresne (Commented) (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-3507?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=13179628#comment-13179628 ]
Sylvain Lebresne commented on CASSANDRA-3507:
---------------------------------------------
bq. But that regression already occurred, in 1.0.6
I don't think that's the case actually. I checked and the control file for 1.0.6 did not mention cql (nor python for that matter). Which is consistent with the 'fix version' of CASSANDRA-3458 and the fact that nobody bitched about not being able to upgrade.
I've went ahead and reverted CASSANDRA-3458 (we can still recommit if everyone think I'm wrong, but at least the branch is in a releasable state in the meantime)
bq. I haven't seen any doubt expressed since my last proposal
To be clear, I did not criticize your last proposal. I just wanted to point out that committing CASSANDRA-3458 without committing this one at roughly the same time was imo a mistake. But anyway, doesn't matter.
On the issue itself, I'll note that voting on the python driver and including it in the official deb repository does create some dependency on the driver. Namely, if we do a change in cassandra that require a driver change (granted we don't want to do that too often but that has happen and will undoubtedly happen again), we have to wait on the driver to catch up to release. I am still not totally at ease with that. We obviously have to make a decision at some point on whether we want to accept that to have cqlsh in tree, but reading the comments above I don't see that a huge consensus on that really emerge (that may must be me misreading what's above, in why case mea culpa).
> Proposal: separate cqlsh from CQL drivers
> -----------------------------------------
>
> Key: CASSANDRA-3507
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-3507
> Project: Cassandra
> Issue Type: Improvement
> Components: Packaging, Tools
> Affects Versions: 1.0.3
> Environment: Debian-based systems
> Reporter: paul cannon
> Assignee: paul cannon
> Priority: Blocker
> Labels: cql, cqlsh
> Fix For: 1.0.7
>
>
> Whereas:
> * It has been shown to be very desirable to decouple the release cycles of Cassandra from the various client CQL drivers, and
> * It is also desirable to include a good interactive CQL client with releases of Cassandra, and
> * It is not desirable for Cassandra releases to depend on 3rd-party software which is neither bundled with Cassandra nor readily available for every target platform, but
> * Any good interactive CQL client will require a CQL driver;
> Therefore, be it resolved that:
> * cqlsh will not use an official or supported CQL driver, but will include its own private CQL driver, not intended for use by anything else, and
> * the Cassandra project will still recommend installing and using a proper CQL driver for client software.
> To ease maintenance, the private CQL driver included with cqlsh may very well be created by "copying the python CQL driver from one directory into another", but the user shouldn't rely on this. Maybe we even ought to take some minor steps to discourage its use for other purposes.
> Thoughts?
--
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[jira] [Commented] (CASSANDRA-3507) Proposal: separate cqlsh from
CQL drivers
Posted by "paul cannon (Commented) (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-3507?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=13154397#comment-13154397 ]
paul cannon commented on CASSANDRA-3507:
----------------------------------------
bq. Should we just spin cqlsh out to a separate project?
I expect that if cqlsh is in a different project, but cassandra-cli is distributed with c* proper, cassandra-cli will remain the de facto standard interactive interface, even if cqlsh is quite simple to install alongside. I've heard from several people that we want to transition to cqlsh over time, so that would make this an important issue.
But if we don't mind sticking with cassandra-cli (I don't really know), then it makes sense to split cqlsh into a different project.
> Proposal: separate cqlsh from CQL drivers
> -----------------------------------------
>
> Key: CASSANDRA-3507
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-3507
> Project: Cassandra
> Issue Type: Improvement
> Components: Packaging, Tools
> Affects Versions: 1.0.3
> Environment: Debian-based systems
> Reporter: paul cannon
> Assignee: paul cannon
> Priority: Minor
> Labels: cql, cqlsh
> Fix For: 1.0.4
>
>
> Whereas:
> * It has been shown to be very desirable to decouple the release cycles of Cassandra from the various client CQL drivers, and
> * It is also desirable to include a good interactive CQL client with releases of Cassandra, and
> * It is not desirable for Cassandra releases to depend on 3rd-party software which is neither bundled with Cassandra nor readily available for every target platform, but
> * Any good interactive CQL client will require a CQL driver;
> Therefore, be it resolved that:
> * cqlsh will not use an official or supported CQL driver, but will include its own private CQL driver, not intended for use by anything else, and
> * the Cassandra project will still recommend installing and using a proper CQL driver for client software.
> To ease maintenance, the private CQL driver included with cqlsh may very well be created by "copying the python CQL driver from one directory into another", but the user shouldn't rely on this. Maybe we even ought to take some minor steps to discourage its use for other purposes.
> Thoughts?
--
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[jira] [Commented] (CASSANDRA-3507) Proposal: separate cqlsh from
CQL drivers
Posted by "paul cannon (Commented) (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-3507?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=13175278#comment-13175278 ]
paul cannon commented on CASSANDRA-3507:
----------------------------------------
Is it possible for the ASF contributors to vote on code that isn't in the official tree, like, say, a particular tag of the python CQL driver at Apache Extras? If we can distribute the drivers in the same official repository, most of these problems go away.
----
If not, here are the alternatives as I see them:
1. Bundle python-cql with cqlsh deb, rpm, and tarball (whether cqlsh is in the same artifact with C* or not). This makes, by far, the most sense to me, since it's the same approach taken for nearly everything else in C*. I don't buy the "everyone expects Java stuff to be bundled, and not Python stuff" argument, because no one should be expecting any bundling, java or not, in actual OS packages. Also, the user shouldn't need to care what languages our tools are written in, so per-language expectations around bundling and packaging need not apply.
2. Add steps to the install instructions, or modify the instructions, so that users get C*/cqlsh/python-cql packages from a third party repo (like Datastax's).
3. Allow normal install of C* packages without any bundled python-cql, but have the cqlsh executable give instructions on how to download python-cql with the least amount of fuss for the local platform, when it is run.
4. Allow normal install of C* packages without any bundled python-cql, and have the cqlsh executable perform installation of python-cql automatically (giving the user a chance to cancel first). It could use a dot-directory under $HOME, and could be as simple as {{wget \-O - "http://pypi.python.org/packages/source/c/cql/cql-$CQL_VERSION.tar.gz" | tar xz}} , so it wouldn't need administrator privileges.
5. (Don't even want to bring this up, but) Put python-cql back in the C* tree, so it can be voted on by the ASF people and put up in the same official C* repositories (and bundled, in the tarball case).
6. Get python-cql into the official OS repositories for all supported platforms (hint: probably not possible within the next, say, 3 years).
> Proposal: separate cqlsh from CQL drivers
> -----------------------------------------
>
> Key: CASSANDRA-3507
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-3507
> Project: Cassandra
> Issue Type: Improvement
> Components: Packaging, Tools
> Affects Versions: 1.0.3
> Environment: Debian-based systems
> Reporter: paul cannon
> Assignee: paul cannon
> Priority: Minor
> Labels: cql, cqlsh
> Fix For: 1.1
>
>
> Whereas:
> * It has been shown to be very desirable to decouple the release cycles of Cassandra from the various client CQL drivers, and
> * It is also desirable to include a good interactive CQL client with releases of Cassandra, and
> * It is not desirable for Cassandra releases to depend on 3rd-party software which is neither bundled with Cassandra nor readily available for every target platform, but
> * Any good interactive CQL client will require a CQL driver;
> Therefore, be it resolved that:
> * cqlsh will not use an official or supported CQL driver, but will include its own private CQL driver, not intended for use by anything else, and
> * the Cassandra project will still recommend installing and using a proper CQL driver for client software.
> To ease maintenance, the private CQL driver included with cqlsh may very well be created by "copying the python CQL driver from one directory into another", but the user shouldn't rely on this. Maybe we even ought to take some minor steps to discourage its use for other purposes.
> Thoughts?
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[jira] [Commented] (CASSANDRA-3507) Proposal: separate cqlsh from
CQL drivers
Posted by "Jonathan Ellis (Commented) (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-3507?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=13191593#comment-13191593 ]
Jonathan Ellis commented on CASSANDRA-3507:
-------------------------------------------
WFM.
> Proposal: separate cqlsh from CQL drivers
> -----------------------------------------
>
> Key: CASSANDRA-3507
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-3507
> Project: Cassandra
> Issue Type: Improvement
> Components: Packaging, Tools
> Affects Versions: 1.0.3
> Environment: Debian-based systems
> Reporter: paul cannon
> Assignee: paul cannon
> Priority: Minor
> Labels: cql, cqlsh
> Fix For: 1.1
>
>
> Whereas:
> * It has been shown to be very desirable to decouple the release cycles of Cassandra from the various client CQL drivers, and
> * It is also desirable to include a good interactive CQL client with releases of Cassandra, and
> * It is not desirable for Cassandra releases to depend on 3rd-party software which is neither bundled with Cassandra nor readily available for every target platform, but
> * Any good interactive CQL client will require a CQL driver;
> Therefore, be it resolved that:
> * cqlsh will not use an official or supported CQL driver, but will include its own private CQL driver, not intended for use by anything else, and
> * the Cassandra project will still recommend installing and using a proper CQL driver for client software.
> To ease maintenance, the private CQL driver included with cqlsh may very well be created by "copying the python CQL driver from one directory into another", but the user shouldn't rely on this. Maybe we even ought to take some minor steps to discourage its use for other purposes.
> Thoughts?
--
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[jira] [Commented] (CASSANDRA-3507) Proposal: separate cqlsh from
CQL drivers
Posted by "Eric Evans (Commented) (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-3507?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=13154101#comment-13154101 ]
Eric Evans commented on CASSANDRA-3507:
---------------------------------------
This would be an improvement over the current situation I think.
bq. Maybe we even ought to take some minor steps to discourage its use for other purposes.
One option would be to script generate some obfuscation. This could be as simple as prepending (or appending) something to each of the methods.
> Proposal: separate cqlsh from CQL drivers
> -----------------------------------------
>
> Key: CASSANDRA-3507
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-3507
> Project: Cassandra
> Issue Type: Improvement
> Components: Packaging, Tools
> Affects Versions: 1.0.3
> Environment: Debian-based systems
> Reporter: paul cannon
> Assignee: paul cannon
> Priority: Minor
> Labels: cql, cqlsh
> Fix For: 1.0.4
>
>
> Whereas:
> * It has been shown to be very desirable to decouple the release cycles of Cassandra from the various client CQL drivers, and
> * It is also desirable to include a good interactive CQL client with releases of Cassandra, and
> * It is not desirable for Cassandra releases to depend on 3rd-party software which is neither bundled with Cassandra nor readily available for every target platform, but
> * Any good interactive CQL client will require a CQL driver;
> Therefore, be it resolved that:
> * cqlsh will not use an official or supported CQL driver, but will include its own private CQL driver, not intended for use by anything else, and
> * the Cassandra project will still recommend installing and using a proper CQL driver for client software.
> To ease maintenance, the private CQL driver included with cqlsh may very well be created by "copying the python CQL driver from one directory into another", but the user shouldn't rely on this. Maybe we even ought to take some minor steps to discourage its use for other purposes.
> Thoughts?
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[jira] [Commented] (CASSANDRA-3507) Proposal: separate cqlsh from
CQL drivers
Posted by "paul cannon (Commented) (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-3507?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=13188586#comment-13188586 ]
paul cannon commented on CASSANDRA-3507:
----------------------------------------
Whatever we're going to do here for 1.1, we probably want to get started. Is there any further input? In particular, will C* lose points if it gets distributed (as a tarball, at least) without any client software?
> Proposal: separate cqlsh from CQL drivers
> -----------------------------------------
>
> Key: CASSANDRA-3507
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-3507
> Project: Cassandra
> Issue Type: Improvement
> Components: Packaging, Tools
> Affects Versions: 1.0.3
> Environment: Debian-based systems
> Reporter: paul cannon
> Assignee: paul cannon
> Priority: Minor
> Labels: cql, cqlsh
> Fix For: 1.1
>
>
> Whereas:
> * It has been shown to be very desirable to decouple the release cycles of Cassandra from the various client CQL drivers, and
> * It is also desirable to include a good interactive CQL client with releases of Cassandra, and
> * It is not desirable for Cassandra releases to depend on 3rd-party software which is neither bundled with Cassandra nor readily available for every target platform, but
> * Any good interactive CQL client will require a CQL driver;
> Therefore, be it resolved that:
> * cqlsh will not use an official or supported CQL driver, but will include its own private CQL driver, not intended for use by anything else, and
> * the Cassandra project will still recommend installing and using a proper CQL driver for client software.
> To ease maintenance, the private CQL driver included with cqlsh may very well be created by "copying the python CQL driver from one directory into another", but the user shouldn't rely on this. Maybe we even ought to take some minor steps to discourage its use for other purposes.
> Thoughts?
--
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[jira] [Commented] (CASSANDRA-3507) Proposal: separate cqlsh from
CQL drivers
Posted by "Jonathan Ellis (Commented) (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-3507?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=13180620#comment-13180620 ]
Jonathan Ellis commented on CASSANDRA-3507:
-------------------------------------------
If we distribute the jar it has to go in lib/ with a license, no Maven shortcuts.
> Proposal: separate cqlsh from CQL drivers
> -----------------------------------------
>
> Key: CASSANDRA-3507
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-3507
> Project: Cassandra
> Issue Type: Improvement
> Components: Packaging, Tools
> Affects Versions: 1.0.3
> Environment: Debian-based systems
> Reporter: paul cannon
> Assignee: paul cannon
> Priority: Blocker
> Labels: cql, cqlsh
> Fix For: 1.0.7
>
>
> Whereas:
> * It has been shown to be very desirable to decouple the release cycles of Cassandra from the various client CQL drivers, and
> * It is also desirable to include a good interactive CQL client with releases of Cassandra, and
> * It is not desirable for Cassandra releases to depend on 3rd-party software which is neither bundled with Cassandra nor readily available for every target platform, but
> * Any good interactive CQL client will require a CQL driver;
> Therefore, be it resolved that:
> * cqlsh will not use an official or supported CQL driver, but will include its own private CQL driver, not intended for use by anything else, and
> * the Cassandra project will still recommend installing and using a proper CQL driver for client software.
> To ease maintenance, the private CQL driver included with cqlsh may very well be created by "copying the python CQL driver from one directory into another", but the user shouldn't rely on this. Maybe we even ought to take some minor steps to discourage its use for other purposes.
> Thoughts?
--
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[jira] [Commented] (CASSANDRA-3507) Proposal: separate cqlsh from
CQL drivers
Posted by "Sylvain Lebresne (Commented) (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-3507?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=13179001#comment-13179001 ]
Sylvain Lebresne commented on CASSANDRA-3507:
---------------------------------------------
bq. That's a little harsh- the debian package and the packaging aren't technically broken, they just require users to add a 3rd-party apt source or install a python-cql deb locally. But yeah, I doubt users really appreciate that distinction much.
I stand corrected. But in a minor release, anything that require more than 'apt-get update' from the user is a regression from his point of view.
bq. Do you mean we don't have strong consensus on including cqlsh in the official C* debs?
I don't know. I mean that there has been a number of comments on that issue, and some doubt on what we can and cannot do (it would be counter-productive to start doing this some way to change it in two release, so we'd better make sure we're covered on that -- though I'm not saying you're reading of apache rules was non exhaustive in any way) and that right now this is holding the release of 1.0.7. It's kind of annoying given that I don't feel that cqlsh is something current user of 1.0 are really waiting on (and they can get it if they want anyway) -- without making any judgement on the quality of cqlsh btw.
> Proposal: separate cqlsh from CQL drivers
> -----------------------------------------
>
> Key: CASSANDRA-3507
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-3507
> Project: Cassandra
> Issue Type: Improvement
> Components: Packaging, Tools
> Affects Versions: 1.0.3
> Environment: Debian-based systems
> Reporter: paul cannon
> Assignee: paul cannon
> Priority: Blocker
> Labels: cql, cqlsh
> Fix For: 1.0.7
>
>
> Whereas:
> * It has been shown to be very desirable to decouple the release cycles of Cassandra from the various client CQL drivers, and
> * It is also desirable to include a good interactive CQL client with releases of Cassandra, and
> * It is not desirable for Cassandra releases to depend on 3rd-party software which is neither bundled with Cassandra nor readily available for every target platform, but
> * Any good interactive CQL client will require a CQL driver;
> Therefore, be it resolved that:
> * cqlsh will not use an official or supported CQL driver, but will include its own private CQL driver, not intended for use by anything else, and
> * the Cassandra project will still recommend installing and using a proper CQL driver for client software.
> To ease maintenance, the private CQL driver included with cqlsh may very well be created by "copying the python CQL driver from one directory into another", but the user shouldn't rely on this. Maybe we even ought to take some minor steps to discourage its use for other purposes.
> Thoughts?
--
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[jira] [Commented] (CASSANDRA-3507) Proposal: separate cqlsh from
CQL drivers
Posted by "paul cannon (Commented) (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-3507?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=13191577#comment-13191577 ]
paul cannon commented on CASSANDRA-3507:
----------------------------------------
bq. But -1 on going to extra effort to obfuscate the cql driver.
I was thinking just rename the egg in lib/ something like "python-cql-internal-only.egg". Not a whole lot of effort involved, and it communicates the intent.
> Proposal: separate cqlsh from CQL drivers
> -----------------------------------------
>
> Key: CASSANDRA-3507
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-3507
> Project: Cassandra
> Issue Type: Improvement
> Components: Packaging, Tools
> Affects Versions: 1.0.3
> Environment: Debian-based systems
> Reporter: paul cannon
> Assignee: paul cannon
> Priority: Minor
> Labels: cql, cqlsh
> Fix For: 1.1
>
>
> Whereas:
> * It has been shown to be very desirable to decouple the release cycles of Cassandra from the various client CQL drivers, and
> * It is also desirable to include a good interactive CQL client with releases of Cassandra, and
> * It is not desirable for Cassandra releases to depend on 3rd-party software which is neither bundled with Cassandra nor readily available for every target platform, but
> * Any good interactive CQL client will require a CQL driver;
> Therefore, be it resolved that:
> * cqlsh will not use an official or supported CQL driver, but will include its own private CQL driver, not intended for use by anything else, and
> * the Cassandra project will still recommend installing and using a proper CQL driver for client software.
> To ease maintenance, the private CQL driver included with cqlsh may very well be created by "copying the python CQL driver from one directory into another", but the user shouldn't rely on this. Maybe we even ought to take some minor steps to discourage its use for other purposes.
> Thoughts?
--
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[jira] [Commented] (CASSANDRA-3507) Proposal: separate cqlsh from
CQL drivers
Posted by "Nick Bailey (Commented) (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-3507?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=13175102#comment-13175102 ]
Nick Bailey commented on CASSANDRA-3507:
----------------------------------------
Fixing the download page will make this less of an issue, but short of removing a link to the binary/source tarball downloads of cassandra, some people are still going to download those.
It seems to me that having a basic way of interacting with the database is an essential piece of the software. This solution seems like we are saying that including that piece is too difficult so we'll push the complexity to users. Anyway that's my two cents. I'll leave it at that if I'm outvoted here.
> Proposal: separate cqlsh from CQL drivers
> -----------------------------------------
>
> Key: CASSANDRA-3507
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-3507
> Project: Cassandra
> Issue Type: Improvement
> Components: Packaging, Tools
> Affects Versions: 1.0.3
> Environment: Debian-based systems
> Reporter: paul cannon
> Assignee: paul cannon
> Priority: Minor
> Labels: cql, cqlsh
> Fix For: 1.1
>
>
> Whereas:
> * It has been shown to be very desirable to decouple the release cycles of Cassandra from the various client CQL drivers, and
> * It is also desirable to include a good interactive CQL client with releases of Cassandra, and
> * It is not desirable for Cassandra releases to depend on 3rd-party software which is neither bundled with Cassandra nor readily available for every target platform, but
> * Any good interactive CQL client will require a CQL driver;
> Therefore, be it resolved that:
> * cqlsh will not use an official or supported CQL driver, but will include its own private CQL driver, not intended for use by anything else, and
> * the Cassandra project will still recommend installing and using a proper CQL driver for client software.
> To ease maintenance, the private CQL driver included with cqlsh may very well be created by "copying the python CQL driver from one directory into another", but the user shouldn't rely on this. Maybe we even ought to take some minor steps to discourage its use for other purposes.
> Thoughts?
--
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[jira] [Commented] (CASSANDRA-3507) Proposal: separate cqlsh from
CQL drivers
Posted by "Jonathan Ellis (Commented) (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-3507?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=13179000#comment-13179000 ]
Jonathan Ellis commented on CASSANDRA-3507:
-------------------------------------------
bq. I read through all the rules I can find, and I see nothing prohibiting us from voting on and "releasing" specific source/binary artifacts of the various cql drivers alongside c*, as long as they follow the ASF licensing restrictions.
Really? It feels weird to have a PMC vote on artifacts for something they don't develop. (While there is overlap between the python cql driver and our PMC, it's not entirely the same thing and it's likely to diverge further in the future, or at least that was the idea of hosting drivers out of tree.)
> Proposal: separate cqlsh from CQL drivers
> -----------------------------------------
>
> Key: CASSANDRA-3507
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-3507
> Project: Cassandra
> Issue Type: Improvement
> Components: Packaging, Tools
> Affects Versions: 1.0.3
> Environment: Debian-based systems
> Reporter: paul cannon
> Assignee: paul cannon
> Priority: Blocker
> Labels: cql, cqlsh
> Fix For: 1.0.7
>
>
> Whereas:
> * It has been shown to be very desirable to decouple the release cycles of Cassandra from the various client CQL drivers, and
> * It is also desirable to include a good interactive CQL client with releases of Cassandra, and
> * It is not desirable for Cassandra releases to depend on 3rd-party software which is neither bundled with Cassandra nor readily available for every target platform, but
> * Any good interactive CQL client will require a CQL driver;
> Therefore, be it resolved that:
> * cqlsh will not use an official or supported CQL driver, but will include its own private CQL driver, not intended for use by anything else, and
> * the Cassandra project will still recommend installing and using a proper CQL driver for client software.
> To ease maintenance, the private CQL driver included with cqlsh may very well be created by "copying the python CQL driver from one directory into another", but the user shouldn't rely on this. Maybe we even ought to take some minor steps to discourage its use for other purposes.
> Thoughts?
--
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[jira] [Commented] (CASSANDRA-3507) Proposal: separate cqlsh from
CQL drivers
Posted by "paul cannon (Commented) (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-3507?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=13180519#comment-13180519 ]
paul cannon commented on CASSANDRA-3507:
----------------------------------------
bq. I feel like I missed something important. The description called for bundling a private copy of the driver. This seems to be identical to how we currently handle all of our other external dependencies. Is that off the table now?
No, it's not off the table, but it's moot unless we decide we want cqlsh in-tree at all.
> Proposal: separate cqlsh from CQL drivers
> -----------------------------------------
>
> Key: CASSANDRA-3507
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-3507
> Project: Cassandra
> Issue Type: Improvement
> Components: Packaging, Tools
> Affects Versions: 1.0.3
> Environment: Debian-based systems
> Reporter: paul cannon
> Assignee: paul cannon
> Priority: Blocker
> Labels: cql, cqlsh
> Fix For: 1.0.7
>
>
> Whereas:
> * It has been shown to be very desirable to decouple the release cycles of Cassandra from the various client CQL drivers, and
> * It is also desirable to include a good interactive CQL client with releases of Cassandra, and
> * It is not desirable for Cassandra releases to depend on 3rd-party software which is neither bundled with Cassandra nor readily available for every target platform, but
> * Any good interactive CQL client will require a CQL driver;
> Therefore, be it resolved that:
> * cqlsh will not use an official or supported CQL driver, but will include its own private CQL driver, not intended for use by anything else, and
> * the Cassandra project will still recommend installing and using a proper CQL driver for client software.
> To ease maintenance, the private CQL driver included with cqlsh may very well be created by "copying the python CQL driver from one directory into another", but the user shouldn't rely on this. Maybe we even ought to take some minor steps to discourage its use for other purposes.
> Thoughts?
--
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[jira] [Updated] (CASSANDRA-3507) Proposal: separate cqlsh from CQL
drivers
Posted by "Sylvain Lebresne (Updated) (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-3507?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:all-tabpanel ]
Sylvain Lebresne updated CASSANDRA-3507:
----------------------------------------
Priority: Blocker (was: Minor)
Fix Version/s: (was: 1.1)
1.0.7
> Proposal: separate cqlsh from CQL drivers
> -----------------------------------------
>
> Key: CASSANDRA-3507
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-3507
> Project: Cassandra
> Issue Type: Improvement
> Components: Packaging, Tools
> Affects Versions: 1.0.3
> Environment: Debian-based systems
> Reporter: paul cannon
> Assignee: paul cannon
> Priority: Blocker
> Labels: cql, cqlsh
> Fix For: 1.0.7
>
>
> Whereas:
> * It has been shown to be very desirable to decouple the release cycles of Cassandra from the various client CQL drivers, and
> * It is also desirable to include a good interactive CQL client with releases of Cassandra, and
> * It is not desirable for Cassandra releases to depend on 3rd-party software which is neither bundled with Cassandra nor readily available for every target platform, but
> * Any good interactive CQL client will require a CQL driver;
> Therefore, be it resolved that:
> * cqlsh will not use an official or supported CQL driver, but will include its own private CQL driver, not intended for use by anything else, and
> * the Cassandra project will still recommend installing and using a proper CQL driver for client software.
> To ease maintenance, the private CQL driver included with cqlsh may very well be created by "copying the python CQL driver from one directory into another", but the user shouldn't rely on this. Maybe we even ought to take some minor steps to discourage its use for other purposes.
> Thoughts?
--
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[jira] [Commented] (CASSANDRA-3507) Proposal: separate cqlsh from
CQL drivers
Posted by "Jonathan Ellis (Commented) (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-3507?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=13175040#comment-13175040 ]
Jonathan Ellis commented on CASSANDRA-3507:
-------------------------------------------
I'd be okay with spinning both cli and cqlsh out to separate projects.
> Proposal: separate cqlsh from CQL drivers
> -----------------------------------------
>
> Key: CASSANDRA-3507
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-3507
> Project: Cassandra
> Issue Type: Improvement
> Components: Packaging, Tools
> Affects Versions: 1.0.3
> Environment: Debian-based systems
> Reporter: paul cannon
> Assignee: paul cannon
> Priority: Minor
> Labels: cql, cqlsh
> Fix For: 1.0.7
>
>
> Whereas:
> * It has been shown to be very desirable to decouple the release cycles of Cassandra from the various client CQL drivers, and
> * It is also desirable to include a good interactive CQL client with releases of Cassandra, and
> * It is not desirable for Cassandra releases to depend on 3rd-party software which is neither bundled with Cassandra nor readily available for every target platform, but
> * Any good interactive CQL client will require a CQL driver;
> Therefore, be it resolved that:
> * cqlsh will not use an official or supported CQL driver, but will include its own private CQL driver, not intended for use by anything else, and
> * the Cassandra project will still recommend installing and using a proper CQL driver for client software.
> To ease maintenance, the private CQL driver included with cqlsh may very well be created by "copying the python CQL driver from one directory into another", but the user shouldn't rely on this. Maybe we even ought to take some minor steps to discourage its use for other purposes.
> Thoughts?
--
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