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Posted to dev@commons.apache.org by henrib <he...@apache.org> on 2010/03/29 17:40:05 UTC

Staging/publishing procedure and tools


I've used the http://wiki.apache.org/commons/CreatingReleases procedure to
release JEXL-2.0 (from Windows, not working on Unix/Mac) and I'm trying to
reuse it for JEXL-2.0.1.

It appears 'mvn -Prc release:perform...' no longer generates the expected
artefacts.
'mvn -Prc release:prepare' happily builds commons-jexl-2.0.1-RC1.jar and
tags COMMONS_JEXL_2_0_1-RC1.
'mvn -Prc release:perform...' insists on creating commons-jexl-2.0.jar
instead of commons-jexl-2.0.1-RC1.jar .
The assembly/{bin,src}.xml seem normal, the pom.xml specifies
<commons.release.version>2.0.1</commons.release.version> and
<commons.rc.version>RC1</commons.rc.version>.
Tried on WinXP & OS X on a fresh m2 repository, same result, no success.

Am I missing an obvious step / doc / procedure ?
Could this be an undetected "regression" (may be through commons-parent-14)
?

IMHO, our community would benefit from finishing the (designed to be)
automated and reliable publishing process described in the Wiki. Especially
since the manual procedures (
http://commons.apache.org/releases/prepare.html and
http://commons.apache.org/releases/release.html ) are complex and appear to
focus on ant / maven-1 projects. This likely would allow faster/smaller
release cycles and more lively projects.

Anyone else also interested by the topic? I'm no maven plugin expert but
will try to help, test and learn if shown the way. 
Best regards,
Henrib
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Re: Staging/publishing procedure and tools

Posted by Rahul Akolkar <ra...@gmail.com>.
On Mon, Mar 29, 2010 at 1:02 PM, henrib <he...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> Thank you Rahul; I was able to generate and upload JEXL-2.0.1-RC1.
>
> It means the Wiki procedure *does* work on Windows; unfortunately, it also
> still doesn't on Unix (http://jira.codehaus.org/browse/PLXUTILS-116 ?). I
> guess that till this is fixed and (doxia-1.1.2?) released, the Wiki
> procedure will remain 'beta'?
<snip/>

Indeed it works, but I've only tried it on Windows.

If someone has cycles, it can go up on the website any time (the wiki
was a temp location).

-Rahul

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Re: Staging/publishing procedure and tools

Posted by henrib <he...@apache.org>.
Thank you Rahul; I was able to generate and upload JEXL-2.0.1-RC1.

It means the Wiki procedure *does* work on Windows; unfortunately, it also
still doesn't on Unix (http://jira.codehaus.org/browse/PLXUTILS-116 ?). I
guess that till this is fixed and (doxia-1.1.2?) released, the Wiki
procedure will remain 'beta'?
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Re: Staging/publishing procedure and tools

Posted by Rahul Akolkar <ra...@gmail.com>.
On Mon, Mar 29, 2010 at 11:40 AM, henrib <he...@apache.org> wrote:
>
>
> I've used the http://wiki.apache.org/commons/CreatingReleases procedure to
> release JEXL-2.0 (from Windows, not working on Unix/Mac) and I'm trying to
> reuse it for JEXL-2.0.1.
>
> It appears 'mvn -Prc release:perform...' no longer generates the expected
> artefacts.
> 'mvn -Prc release:prepare' happily builds commons-jexl-2.0.1-RC1.jar and
> tags COMMONS_JEXL_2_0_1-RC1.
> 'mvn -Prc release:perform...' insists on creating commons-jexl-2.0.jar
> instead of commons-jexl-2.0.1-RC1.jar .
> The assembly/{bin,src}.xml seem normal, the pom.xml specifies
> <commons.release.version>2.0.1</commons.release.version> and
> <commons.rc.version>RC1</commons.rc.version>.
> Tried on WinXP & OS X on a fresh m2 repository, same result, no success.
>
> Am I missing an obvious step / doc / procedure ?
> Could this be an undetected "regression" (may be through commons-parent-14)
> ?
>
<snip/>

The pom in JEXL trunk seems to have references to the 2.0 tag URLs in
the <scm> section. Try changing it to be trunk (as it should be) and
retry.

-Rahul


> IMHO, our community would benefit from finishing the (designed to be)
> automated and reliable publishing process described in the Wiki. Especially
> since the manual procedures (
> http://commons.apache.org/releases/prepare.html and
> http://commons.apache.org/releases/release.html ) are complex and appear to
> focus on ant / maven-1 projects. This likely would allow faster/smaller
> release cycles and more lively projects.
>
> Anyone else also interested by the topic? I'm no maven plugin expert but
> will try to help, test and learn if shown the way.
> Best regards,
> Henrib

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Re: Staging/publishing procedure and tools

Posted by Rahul Akolkar <ra...@gmail.com>.
On Tue, Mar 30, 2010 at 8:17 PM, Phil Steitz <ph...@gmail.com> wrote:
> sebb wrote:
>> On 29/03/2010, Niall Pemberton <ni...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Mon, Mar 29, 2010 at 4:40 PM, henrib <he...@apache.org> wrote:
>>>  >
>>>  >
>>>  > I've used the http://wiki.apache.org/commons/CreatingReleases procedure to
>>>  > release JEXL-2.0 (from Windows, not working on Unix/Mac) and I'm trying to
>>>  > reuse it for JEXL-2.0.1.
>>>  >
>>>  > It appears 'mvn -Prc release:perform...' no longer generates the expected
>>>  > artefacts.
>>>  > 'mvn -Prc release:prepare' happily builds commons-jexl-2.0.1-RC1.jar and
>>>  > tags COMMONS_JEXL_2_0_1-RC1.
>>>  > 'mvn -Prc release:perform...' insists on creating commons-jexl-2.0.jar
>>>  > instead of commons-jexl-2.0.1-RC1.jar .
>>>  > The assembly/{bin,src}.xml seem normal, the pom.xml specifies
>>>  > <commons.release.version>2.0.1</commons.release.version> and
>>>  > <commons.rc.version>RC1</commons.rc.version>.
>>>  > Tried on WinXP & OS X on a fresh m2 repository, same result, no success.
>>>  >
>>>  > Am I missing an obvious step / doc / procedure ?
>>>  > Could this be an undetected "regression" (may be through commons-parent-14)
>>>  > ?
>>>  >
>>>  > IMHO, our community would benefit from finishing the (designed to be)
>>>  > automated and reliable publishing process described in the Wiki. Especially
>>>  > since the manual procedures (
>>>  > http://commons.apache.org/releases/prepare.html and
>>>  > http://commons.apache.org/releases/release.html ) are complex and appear to
>>>  > focus on ant / maven-1 projects. This likely would allow faster/smaller
>>>  > release cycles and more lively projects.
>>>
>>>
>>> IMO you should use the manual process - its not that complex and you
>>>  would have had far less trouble than all the struggling you've been
>>>  doing with the release plugin. Also the release plugin only does part
>>>  of the release process and still leaves a whole load to do manually -
>>>  so the release plugin isn't really saving you much anyway.
>>>
>>>  1. Update the version number to 2.0.1 in the pom.xml and commit the change
>>>  2. Do a subversion update
>>>  3. Tag Jexl RC1
>>>  4. Check out the Jexl RC1 tag
>>>  5. run "mvn -Prc install" on the RC1 checked out code - this creates
>>>  artifacts, signs and checksums in your local m2 repo
>>>  6. run "mvn site" to generate the site (just for review)
>>>  7. Upload the RC1 artifacts and site for review to your ASF dir on
>>>  people.apache.org
>>>  8. Call VOTE
>>>  9. Copy maven artifacts to
>>>  http://people.apache.org/repo/m2-ibiblio-rsync-repository/org/apache/commons/commons-jexl/2.0.1
>>>  10. Update maven-metadata.xml  (and re-create md5 & sha1 checksums)
>>
>> What has to be changed here?
>
> You need to add the new release to the versions list.
>
>>
>>>  The above is just what replaces the maven release plugin - you also
>>>  need to do the other stuff in the release guide manually whichever way
>>>  you do it
>>
>> Does this mean that the "release" profile is no longer needed in the parent pom?
>>
> If some people still use the release plugin, we need to keep that, I
> think.
>
<snip/>

Please do not remove it.

It has worked for me in the past and I intend to use it until a better
alternative (such as Nexus) is available.

-Rahul

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Re: Staging/publishing procedure and tools

Posted by Phil Steitz <ph...@gmail.com>.
sebb wrote:
> On 29/03/2010, Niall Pemberton <ni...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Mon, Mar 29, 2010 at 4:40 PM, henrib <he...@apache.org> wrote:
>>  >
>>  >
>>  > I've used the http://wiki.apache.org/commons/CreatingReleases procedure to
>>  > release JEXL-2.0 (from Windows, not working on Unix/Mac) and I'm trying to
>>  > reuse it for JEXL-2.0.1.
>>  >
>>  > It appears 'mvn -Prc release:perform...' no longer generates the expected
>>  > artefacts.
>>  > 'mvn -Prc release:prepare' happily builds commons-jexl-2.0.1-RC1.jar and
>>  > tags COMMONS_JEXL_2_0_1-RC1.
>>  > 'mvn -Prc release:perform...' insists on creating commons-jexl-2.0.jar
>>  > instead of commons-jexl-2.0.1-RC1.jar .
>>  > The assembly/{bin,src}.xml seem normal, the pom.xml specifies
>>  > <commons.release.version>2.0.1</commons.release.version> and
>>  > <commons.rc.version>RC1</commons.rc.version>.
>>  > Tried on WinXP & OS X on a fresh m2 repository, same result, no success.
>>  >
>>  > Am I missing an obvious step / doc / procedure ?
>>  > Could this be an undetected "regression" (may be through commons-parent-14)
>>  > ?
>>  >
>>  > IMHO, our community would benefit from finishing the (designed to be)
>>  > automated and reliable publishing process described in the Wiki. Especially
>>  > since the manual procedures (
>>  > http://commons.apache.org/releases/prepare.html and
>>  > http://commons.apache.org/releases/release.html ) are complex and appear to
>>  > focus on ant / maven-1 projects. This likely would allow faster/smaller
>>  > release cycles and more lively projects.
>>
>>
>> IMO you should use the manual process - its not that complex and you
>>  would have had far less trouble than all the struggling you've been
>>  doing with the release plugin. Also the release plugin only does part
>>  of the release process and still leaves a whole load to do manually -
>>  so the release plugin isn't really saving you much anyway.
>>
>>  1. Update the version number to 2.0.1 in the pom.xml and commit the change
>>  2. Do a subversion update
>>  3. Tag Jexl RC1
>>  4. Check out the Jexl RC1 tag
>>  5. run "mvn -Prc install" on the RC1 checked out code - this creates
>>  artifacts, signs and checksums in your local m2 repo
>>  6. run "mvn site" to generate the site (just for review)
>>  7. Upload the RC1 artifacts and site for review to your ASF dir on
>>  people.apache.org
>>  8. Call VOTE
>>  9. Copy maven artifacts to
>>  http://people.apache.org/repo/m2-ibiblio-rsync-repository/org/apache/commons/commons-jexl/2.0.1
>>  10. Update maven-metadata.xml  (and re-create md5 & sha1 checksums)
> 
> What has to be changed here?

You need to add the new release to the versions list.

> 
>>  The above is just what replaces the maven release plugin - you also
>>  need to do the other stuff in the release guide manually whichever way
>>  you do it
> 
> Does this mean that the "release" profile is no longer needed in the parent pom?
> 
If some people still use the release plugin, we need to keep that, I
think.

Phil
>>  Niall
>>
>>
>>  > Anyone else also interested by the topic? I'm no maven plugin expert but
>>  > will try to help, test and learn if shown the way.
>>  > Best regards,
>>  > Henrib
>>  > --
>>  > View this message in context: http://n4.nabble.com/Staging-publishing-procedure-and-tools-tp1695256p1695256.html
>>  > Sent from the Commons - Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>  >
>>  > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>  > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
>>  > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
>>  >
>>  >
>>
>>  ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>  To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
>>  For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
>>
>>
> 
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> 


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Re: Staging/publishing procedure and tools

Posted by sebb <se...@gmail.com>.
On 29/03/2010, Niall Pemberton <ni...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 29, 2010 at 4:40 PM, henrib <he...@apache.org> wrote:
>  >
>  >
>  > I've used the http://wiki.apache.org/commons/CreatingReleases procedure to
>  > release JEXL-2.0 (from Windows, not working on Unix/Mac) and I'm trying to
>  > reuse it for JEXL-2.0.1.
>  >
>  > It appears 'mvn -Prc release:perform...' no longer generates the expected
>  > artefacts.
>  > 'mvn -Prc release:prepare' happily builds commons-jexl-2.0.1-RC1.jar and
>  > tags COMMONS_JEXL_2_0_1-RC1.
>  > 'mvn -Prc release:perform...' insists on creating commons-jexl-2.0.jar
>  > instead of commons-jexl-2.0.1-RC1.jar .
>  > The assembly/{bin,src}.xml seem normal, the pom.xml specifies
>  > <commons.release.version>2.0.1</commons.release.version> and
>  > <commons.rc.version>RC1</commons.rc.version>.
>  > Tried on WinXP & OS X on a fresh m2 repository, same result, no success.
>  >
>  > Am I missing an obvious step / doc / procedure ?
>  > Could this be an undetected "regression" (may be through commons-parent-14)
>  > ?
>  >
>  > IMHO, our community would benefit from finishing the (designed to be)
>  > automated and reliable publishing process described in the Wiki. Especially
>  > since the manual procedures (
>  > http://commons.apache.org/releases/prepare.html and
>  > http://commons.apache.org/releases/release.html ) are complex and appear to
>  > focus on ant / maven-1 projects. This likely would allow faster/smaller
>  > release cycles and more lively projects.
>
>
> IMO you should use the manual process - its not that complex and you
>  would have had far less trouble than all the struggling you've been
>  doing with the release plugin. Also the release plugin only does part
>  of the release process and still leaves a whole load to do manually -
>  so the release plugin isn't really saving you much anyway.
>
>  1. Update the version number to 2.0.1 in the pom.xml and commit the change
>  2. Do a subversion update
>  3. Tag Jexl RC1
>  4. Check out the Jexl RC1 tag
>  5. run "mvn -Prc install" on the RC1 checked out code - this creates
>  artifacts, signs and checksums in your local m2 repo
>  6. run "mvn site" to generate the site (just for review)
>  7. Upload the RC1 artifacts and site for review to your ASF dir on
>  people.apache.org
>  8. Call VOTE
>  9. Copy maven artifacts to
>  http://people.apache.org/repo/m2-ibiblio-rsync-repository/org/apache/commons/commons-jexl/2.0.1
>  10. Update maven-metadata.xml  (and re-create md5 & sha1 checksums)

What has to be changed here?

>  The above is just what replaces the maven release plugin - you also
>  need to do the other stuff in the release guide manually whichever way
>  you do it

Does this mean that the "release" profile is no longer needed in the parent pom?

>
>  Niall
>
>
>  > Anyone else also interested by the topic? I'm no maven plugin expert but
>  > will try to help, test and learn if shown the way.
>  > Best regards,
>  > Henrib
>  > --
>  > View this message in context: http://n4.nabble.com/Staging-publishing-procedure-and-tools-tp1695256p1695256.html
>  > Sent from the Commons - Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>  >
>  > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>  > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
>  > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
>  >
>  >
>
>  ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>  To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
>  For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
>
>

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Re: Staging/publishing procedure and tools

Posted by Niall Pemberton <ni...@gmail.com>.
On Tue, Mar 30, 2010 at 1:05 PM, henrib <he...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> Thanks a lot for this summarized procedure. I was able to upload
> JEXL-2.0.1-RC1 using it.
>
> One important difference with the published procedure is that the only place
> where we actually state 'release candidate' status is on the staging site
> name and the SVN tag. (MATH 2.0 RC3 seems to do this for example). The
> produced artefacts (jar doc etc) do not carry the RC status. Do I understand
> this correctly?

Yes because we want to vote on the actual artifacts that are going to
be distributed, if the vote is successful.

> I've also seen some discussion about using Nexus; I suppose parts of the
> process will be revisited to benefit from its features. Is there any
> draft/alpha/wiki place where this future is discussed?

>From a Commons PoV then its just here on the dev@commons mailing list
- the maven has some docs on how to do it I believe.

Niall

> Thanks again,
> Henrib
> --
> View this message in context: http://n4.nabble.com/Staging-publishing-procedure-and-tools-tp1695256p1745102.html
> Sent from the Commons - Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
>
>

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Re: Staging/publishing procedure and tools

Posted by henrib <he...@apache.org>.
Thanks a lot for this summarized procedure. I was able to upload
JEXL-2.0.1-RC1 using it.

One important difference with the published procedure is that the only place
where we actually state 'release candidate' status is on the staging site
name and the SVN tag. (MATH 2.0 RC3 seems to do this for example). The
produced artefacts (jar doc etc) do not carry the RC status. Do I understand
this correctly?

I've also seen some discussion about using Nexus; I suppose parts of the
process will be revisited to benefit from its features. Is there any
draft/alpha/wiki place where this future is discussed?

Thanks again,
Henrib
-- 
View this message in context: http://n4.nabble.com/Staging-publishing-procedure-and-tools-tp1695256p1745102.html
Sent from the Commons - Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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Re: Staging/publishing procedure and tools

Posted by Phil Steitz <ph...@gmail.com>.
Niall Pemberton wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 29, 2010 at 4:40 PM, henrib <he...@apache.org> wrote:
>>
>> I've used the http://wiki.apache.org/commons/CreatingReleases procedure to
>> release JEXL-2.0 (from Windows, not working on Unix/Mac) and I'm trying to
>> reuse it for JEXL-2.0.1.
>>
>> It appears 'mvn -Prc release:perform...' no longer generates the expected
>> artefacts.
>> 'mvn -Prc release:prepare' happily builds commons-jexl-2.0.1-RC1.jar and
>> tags COMMONS_JEXL_2_0_1-RC1.
>> 'mvn -Prc release:perform...' insists on creating commons-jexl-2.0.jar
>> instead of commons-jexl-2.0.1-RC1.jar .
>> The assembly/{bin,src}.xml seem normal, the pom.xml specifies
>> <commons.release.version>2.0.1</commons.release.version> and
>> <commons.rc.version>RC1</commons.rc.version>.
>> Tried on WinXP & OS X on a fresh m2 repository, same result, no success.
>>
>> Am I missing an obvious step / doc / procedure ?
>> Could this be an undetected "regression" (may be through commons-parent-14)
>> ?
>>
>> IMHO, our community would benefit from finishing the (designed to be)
>> automated and reliable publishing process described in the Wiki. Especially
>> since the manual procedures (
>> http://commons.apache.org/releases/prepare.html and
>> http://commons.apache.org/releases/release.html ) are complex and appear to
>> focus on ant / maven-1 projects. This likely would allow faster/smaller
>> release cycles and more lively projects.
> 
> IMO you should use the manual process - its not that complex and you
> would have had far less trouble than all the struggling you've been
> doing with the release plugin. Also the release plugin only does part
> of the release process and still leaves a whole load to do manually -
> so the release plugin isn't really saving you much anyway.
> 
> 1. Update the version number to 2.0.1 in the pom.xml and commit the change
> 2. Do a subversion update
> 3. Tag Jexl RC1
> 4. Check out the Jexl RC1 tag
> 5. run "mvn -Prc install" on the RC1 checked out code - this creates
> artifacts, signs and checksums in your local m2 repo
> 6. run "mvn site" to generate the site (just for review)
> 7. Upload the RC1 artifacts and site for review to your ASF dir on
> people.apache.org
> 8. Call VOTE
> 9. Copy maven artifacts to
> http://people.apache.org/repo/m2-ibiblio-rsync-repository/org/apache/commons/commons-jexl/2.0.1
> 10. Update maven-metadata.xml  (and re-create md5 & sha1 checksums)
> 
> The above is just what replaces the maven release plugin - you also
> need to do the other stuff in the release guide manually whichever way
> you do it

This is pretty much exactly what I do and I have started updating
the release prep / cutting docs to reflect this - simplified
significantly from the m1 days - process.

Thanks to Niall and Hen, we are pretty much all moved to m2 now, so
the docs can eliminate all m1 stuff.  Thanks again to Niall, we can
now generate the commons site using m2.  The new site xdoc is in
commons-site/src/site/xdoc.

Phil

> 
> Niall
> 
>> Anyone else also interested by the topic? I'm no maven plugin expert but
>> will try to help, test and learn if shown the way.
>> Best regards,
>> Henrib
>> --
>> View this message in context: http://n4.nabble.com/Staging-publishing-procedure-and-tools-tp1695256p1695256.html
>> Sent from the Commons - Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
>>
>>
> 
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Re: Staging/publishing procedure and tools

Posted by Niall Pemberton <ni...@gmail.com>.
On Mon, Mar 29, 2010 at 4:40 PM, henrib <he...@apache.org> wrote:
>
>
> I've used the http://wiki.apache.org/commons/CreatingReleases procedure to
> release JEXL-2.0 (from Windows, not working on Unix/Mac) and I'm trying to
> reuse it for JEXL-2.0.1.
>
> It appears 'mvn -Prc release:perform...' no longer generates the expected
> artefacts.
> 'mvn -Prc release:prepare' happily builds commons-jexl-2.0.1-RC1.jar and
> tags COMMONS_JEXL_2_0_1-RC1.
> 'mvn -Prc release:perform...' insists on creating commons-jexl-2.0.jar
> instead of commons-jexl-2.0.1-RC1.jar .
> The assembly/{bin,src}.xml seem normal, the pom.xml specifies
> <commons.release.version>2.0.1</commons.release.version> and
> <commons.rc.version>RC1</commons.rc.version>.
> Tried on WinXP & OS X on a fresh m2 repository, same result, no success.
>
> Am I missing an obvious step / doc / procedure ?
> Could this be an undetected "regression" (may be through commons-parent-14)
> ?
>
> IMHO, our community would benefit from finishing the (designed to be)
> automated and reliable publishing process described in the Wiki. Especially
> since the manual procedures (
> http://commons.apache.org/releases/prepare.html and
> http://commons.apache.org/releases/release.html ) are complex and appear to
> focus on ant / maven-1 projects. This likely would allow faster/smaller
> release cycles and more lively projects.

IMO you should use the manual process - its not that complex and you
would have had far less trouble than all the struggling you've been
doing with the release plugin. Also the release plugin only does part
of the release process and still leaves a whole load to do manually -
so the release plugin isn't really saving you much anyway.

1. Update the version number to 2.0.1 in the pom.xml and commit the change
2. Do a subversion update
3. Tag Jexl RC1
4. Check out the Jexl RC1 tag
5. run "mvn -Prc install" on the RC1 checked out code - this creates
artifacts, signs and checksums in your local m2 repo
6. run "mvn site" to generate the site (just for review)
7. Upload the RC1 artifacts and site for review to your ASF dir on
people.apache.org
8. Call VOTE
9. Copy maven artifacts to
http://people.apache.org/repo/m2-ibiblio-rsync-repository/org/apache/commons/commons-jexl/2.0.1
10. Update maven-metadata.xml  (and re-create md5 & sha1 checksums)

The above is just what replaces the maven release plugin - you also
need to do the other stuff in the release guide manually whichever way
you do it

Niall

> Anyone else also interested by the topic? I'm no maven plugin expert but
> will try to help, test and learn if shown the way.
> Best regards,
> Henrib
> --
> View this message in context: http://n4.nabble.com/Staging-publishing-procedure-and-tools-tp1695256p1695256.html
> Sent from the Commons - Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
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