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Posted to dev@solr.apache.org by David Mackey <da...@davemackey.net> on 2023/05/15 20:03:37 UTC
Apache Projects and Discussion Forums
Hi All,
At yesterday's meeting I suggested that discussion forums might be useful
for managing tension in communications and increasing the visibility /
popularity of the Solr project. At the time this didn't seem viable due to
the centrality of mailing lists to ASF's communications but Eric suggested
that if other projects where using forums that Solr could as well.
*(ASF Projects Using Discussion Forums)*
I did some research and discovered that a number of ASF projects are using
forums:
- Airflow <https://airflow.apache.org/community/>, Pulsar
<https://github.com/apache/pulsar/discussions>, RocketMQ
<https://github.com/apache/rocketmq>, ShardingSphere
<https://github.com/apache/shardingsphere>, StreamPipes
<https://github.com/apache/streampipes>, and Doris
<https://github.com/apache/doris> are all using GitHub Discussions
<https://github.com/apache/airflow/discussions>.
- TVM <https://tvm.apache.org/> uses Discourse
<https://discuss.tvm.apache.org/>.
- OpenOffice.org <http://openoffice.org/> uses phpBB
<https://forum.openoffice.org/en/forum/index.php?sid=b4a0ff493ecb816d6a05cceaeee19283>
.
*(Refined Role Proposal for Discussion Forums)*
Understanding better the fundamental nature of mailing lists to ASF
projects I'd like to suggest a more tightly scoped implementation of
discussion forums for the Solr project:
- As an adjunct to, not replacement of, mailing lists.
- With a focus on answering questions that users/developers have that
are informational rather than decision making.
- And perhaps some early stage idea discussions before they are ready
for a serious proposal.
(*Advantages of Discussion Forums to Solr Community)*
I think this would offer the Solr community a few different advantages:
- *Visible Vitality *- The Solr project has vitality but it isn't
entirely visible. An active forum (discuss.elastic.co) can provide this
visibility.
- *Redundant Question Reduction* - Forums provide a way for users to
find answers to questions that might otherwise be asked repeatedly in Slack
chats or on the mailing lists.
- *Content Creation* - Users create valuable content (which is indexed
by search engines) through their discussions.
- *Noise Reduction* - If at least some informational / idea discussions
were occurring in the forums the volume of emails on the mailing list would
be reduced.
*(Recommended Implementation)*
While GitHub Discussions would be the easiest to implement I would
recommend Discourse. GitHub is developer-centric and as such would likely
exclude most (non-dev) users.
Discourse (the org) offers Discourse (the software) as a hosted service for
free <https://blog.discourse.org/2018/11/free-hosting-for-open-source-v2/>
to open source projects.
I'm happy to help if this is something the Solr community would be
interested in. Thanks for taking the time to read and consider.
Sincerely,
Dave Mackey
Re: Apache Projects and Discussion Forums
Posted by David Mackey <da...@davemackey.net>.
Thanks for resurrecting this topic David!
After our discussions at the June meetup I had intended to create an
account with Discourse for the Solr project using their free for open
source hosting <https://free.discourse.group/>. Unfortunately, I became ill
for an extended period and that endeavor went on the back-burner. I'm
fairly recovered now and still interested in helping, if desired.
Initially, I was going to set up the account using my email address and
then transfer it to an official Solr address once it had been set up. In
light of the universe's recent reminder of my mortality I would want to see
it start off using an official email address. If someone with an official
account wants to create the account and add me as an admin once it is set
up, I'm happy to assist. Or if there is a generic account I can be given
access to, I'm happy to perform the setup myself.
I liked your idea of running the two systems in parallel and syncing
between them. I spent some time today researching how this could be
accomplished and from what I've seen it appears theoretically possible but
practically quite difficult. Folks have expressed interest in doing it but
I found no successful implementations.
What is fairly straightforward is:
1. Importing
<https://meta.discourse.org/t/migrate-a-mailing-list-to-discourse-mbox-listserv-google-groups-etc/79773>
the existing mailing list archives
2. Setting up an ongoing, read-only sync
<https://meta.discourse.org/t/continuing-to-run-mailman-and-discourse-using-the-exact-email-addresses-as-mailman-in-parallel/217854/5>
of new mailing list messages to Discourse.
This reduces some fragmentation - forum users would be aware of all
discussions - but mailing list users would miss out on forum messages.
Alternatively, we could make a hard cut over to Discourse, setting
users@solr.apache.org to be ingested by Discourse. Along with an import of
all the existing messages this would ensure that all discussions were
occurring through a single channel. We'd have to use the mailing list mode
<https://meta.discourse.org/t/what-is-mailing-list-mode/46008> to force
Discourse to send all the messages to all subscribers if we wanted to
imitate the mailing list behavior.
This could be done for a short period but I'd recommend against doing it
long-term as it recreates one of the main weaknesses of mailing lists - a
lack of scalability. Mailing lists work well with small groups but as the
size of the group increases the volume of messages increases until it
becomes impossible to manage. Users could still enable mailing list mode
for their personal accounts if they desired to receive all the messages
long-term.
Jan, regarding your suggestion that we not rule GitHub Discussions out -
I'm not strongly opposed to GHD. I agree that most Solr users are likely
developers but I also hope that this won't always be the case and that is
why I haven't been wholeheartedly in favor of GHD. I feel like GHD would
limit Solr long-term or would force another migration as Solr grew beyond
its developer-centric roots.
On Tue, Oct 17, 2023 at 2:57 AM Jan Høydahl <ja...@cominvent.com> wrote:
>
> > GitHub is developer-centric and as such would likely, exclude most,
> non-dev, users.
>
> Last time I checked, (direct) users of Solr were developers. Not
> necessarily solr or java devs but tech people integrating or operating solr.
>
> So I’d not exclude GH discussions. The barrier to joining the solr-user
> list discussions is higher than visiting our GH page and browsing
> discussions. How many already have a GH account vs a discourse account? But
> I agree we could have several channels.
>
> Jan Høydahl
>
> > 17. okt. 2023 kl. 07:27 skrev David Smiley <ds...@apache.org>:
> >
> > GitHub is developer-centric and as such would likely,
> > exclude most, non-dev, users.
>
Re: Apache Projects and Discussion Forums
Posted by Jan Høydahl <ja...@cominvent.com>.
> GitHub is developer-centric and as such would likely, exclude most, non-dev, users.
Last time I checked, (direct) users of Solr were developers. Not necessarily solr or java devs but tech people integrating or operating solr.
So I’d not exclude GH discussions. The barrier to joining the solr-user list discussions is higher than visiting our GH page and browsing discussions. How many already have a GH account vs a discourse account? But I agree we could have several channels.
Jan Høydahl
> 17. okt. 2023 kl. 07:27 skrev David Smiley <ds...@apache.org>:
>
> GitHub is developer-centric and as such would likely,
> exclude most, non-dev, users.
Re: Apache Projects and Discussion Forums
Posted by David Smiley <ds...@apache.org>.
ASF requirements relate to running the development of the project itself --
Solr developers -- committers and contributors. It doesn't extend to user
support channels, which is what the "users" list is. This makes sense to
me; the ASF can't meaningfully control that because users can go get
support in any form that exists in the internet and the physical world. We
are not compelled to even have the users list. FYI
https://www.apache.org/dev/project-requirements#governance
RE GitHub "Discussion", in the original post here, Dave Macky stated:
> While GitHub Discussions would be the easiest to implement I would
recommend Discourse. GitHub is developer-centric and as such would likely,
exclude most, non-dev, users.
That definitely makes sense to me. I think GH Discussions would be
appropriate for a project like Lucene.
Ultimately, we should poll users on the list to gauge their acceptance of a
new/different medium. I would say to *replace* the list.
~ David Smiley
Apache Lucene/Solr Search Developer
http://www.linkedin.com/in/davidwsmiley
On Tue, Oct 10, 2023 at 3:15 AM Jan Høydahl <ja...@cominvent.com> wrote:
> Perhaps stack overflow is willing to collaborate with infra for an SSO
> integration and provide an api for the asf to sync an archive copy of
> everything? Then it’d be an official alternative.
>
> I know ml feels quite antiquated for newcomers.
>
> Have you considered GitHub’s new “Discussion” tab? It’d perhaps be a more
> low hanging fruit given the pre-existing integration?
>
> Jan Høydahl
>
> > 10. okt. 2023 kl. 06:17 skrev David Smiley <ds...@apache.org>:
> >
> > At the ASF Community-over-Code conference today, I brought up this topic
> > with ASF Directors and members at a session about project communication.
> > Yes, a project could host something if a project (PMC) wants to, provided
> > that the "dev list" remains where official project decisions are made.
> > Also, there was advice against over-use of Slack for many reasons. I
> feel
> > if we had a modern forum in place, we would not have been so tempted to
> > setup Slack for users.
> >
> > My main concern for *adding* a forum is fragmentation for users/everyone
> > with users@solr.apache.org. I would much prefer bidirectional
> integration
> > (i.e. a bridge or gateway) so that a user can choose the
> > UX/interaction-model they prefer. I don't want to cut the user community
> > into silos that don't talk to each other. I looked at Discourse
> > https://meta.discourse.org and tried to find if it's possible to
> > bridge/gateway to existing mailing lists. I didn't see it but hopefully
> it
> > exists? If not / in addition, the Solr user list can be imported into
> > Discourse, but that's a one-time thing intended to transition in full.
> > FWIW I support a complete transition to avoid fragmentation.
> >
> > BTW fragmentation is already the case via stack-overflow today. Granted
> I
> > don't think there's been much traction there for Solr (yes some, but not
> > much). I heard some projects out there completely embrace stack-overflow
> > and perhaps don't have a user list or similar. A bold move but I get
> > the appeal. It's so radical to my norms that I'm hesitant to suggest it
> > for us but I can't think of a good reason I'd oppose it. Maybe some of
> you
> > have opinions to share on that?
> >
> > ~ David Smiley
> > Apache Lucene/Solr Search Developer
> > http://www.linkedin.com/in/davidwsmiley
> >
> >
> >> On Thu, May 18, 2023 at 2:53 PM David Mackey <da...@davemackey.net>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi Everyone,
> >>
> >> I apologize for the delay in responding, I wanted to give some time for
> >> others to share their thoughts and due to the mention of a dedicated
> >> solr.apache.org URL (I wanted to verify if this was something Discourse
> >> offered in their free plan for open source projects, unfortunately it is
> >> not).
> >>
> >> I appreciate Alessandro's generous offer of hosting the forums on the
> >> ir-relevant.net site however I'd lean towards having its forums fully
> >> owned
> >> by Apache/Solr. I am approaching this primarily from a
> visibility/marketing
> >> perspective and I think having dedicated, official forums would be more
> >> "impressive" to those considering Elastic <https://discuss.elastic.co/
> >,
> >> OpenSearch <https://forum.opensearch.org/>, Solr, etc.
> >>
> >> I would love to see the forums hosted on the official Solr domain as
> Ishan
> >> suggested. The Apache TVM project's discussion URL is
> >> https://discuss.tvm.apache.org/, so Solr could potentially have one
> like:
> >> https://discuss.solr.apache.org/
> >>
> >> I'd recommend using Discourse <https://discourse.org/> as the forum
> >> software (it is what both Elastic and OpenSearch appear to be using). A
> >> free
> >> instance <https://free.discourse.group/> is available from Discourse
> for
> >> open source projects. By default this instance would be hosted at
> >> solr.discourse.group and unfortunately the free plan does not support
> >> custom domains (though we could do a redirect from
> >> https://discuss.solr.apache.org/ or similar the final url would still
> be
> >> solr.discourse.group).
> >>
> >> If Solr exceeds the 50k/views/mo. (sustained traffic, not occasional
> >> spikes) the free plan offers we'd need to upgrade to the Standard Plan
> >> which is available at a 50% discount for nonprofits (regular price:
> >> $100/mo.; discounted price: $50/mo.). Alternatively we could using a VPS
> >> host with a ~$20/mo. instance. In any case, I wouldn't anticipate us
> >> exceeding the free plans capabilities for quite some time.
> >>
> >> I'd suggest having two categories to start - End Users
> >> (businesses/individuals who utilize the application) and Development
> (for
> >> more code related topics). Two additional possible categories would be
> >> Beginners, and Third-Party Integrations / Plugins but I'd suggest adding
> >> these later after the forums gain some traction.
> >>
> >> I'd love to get something out there sooner than later and am happy to
> get
> >> the instance setup and configured with Discourse if folks are amenable
> and
> >> that would be helpful. I'd suggest using the free plan to start to
> expedite
> >> the spin-up process.
> >>
> >> Sincerely,
> >>
> >> Dave Mackey
> >>
> >> On Tue, May 16, 2023 at 11:04 AM Alessandro Benedetti <
> >> a.benedetti@sease.io>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> I agree Ishan,
> >>> just wanted to mention what I can donate from my company anyway.
> >>> Happy to allow a customized logo and colors for the Solr section and
> >> allow
> >>> a redirect from solr.apache.org/discussions it that's something
> useful.
> >>> Cheers
> >>> --------------------------
> >>> *Alessandro Benedetti*
> >>> Director @ Sease Ltd.
> >>> *Apache Lucene/Solr Committer*
> >>> *Apache Solr PMC Member*
> >>>
> >>> e-mail: a.benedetti@sease.io
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> *Sease* - Information Retrieval Applied
> >>> Consulting | Training | Open Source
> >>>
> >>> Website: Sease.io <http://sease.io/>
> >>> LinkedIn <https://linkedin.com/company/sease-ltd> | Twitter
> >>> <https://twitter.com/seaseltd> | Youtube
> >>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDx86ZKLYNpI3gzMercM7BQ> | Github
> >>> <https://github.com/seaseltd>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Tue, 16 May 2023 at 15:32, Ishan Chattopadhyaya <
> >>> ichattopadhyaya@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> I would prefer if this discussion forum is hosted at an official
> >> domain,
> >>>> e.g. solr.apache.org/discussions or something like that. That's the
> >> only
> >>>> right way to support an official solution.
> >>>>
> >>>> Can ASF help us here in any way?
> >>>>
> >>>> On Tue, 16 May, 2023, 2:09 pm Alessandro Benedetti, <
> >>> a.benedetti@sease.io>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> We have been working for the last few months on an upcoming
> >> Information
> >>>>> Retrieval forum: https://ir-relevant.net
> >>>>>
> >>>>> This will be a fully free forum, sponsored by my company.
> >>>>> We have an Apache Solr section:
> >>>>>
> >> https://ir-relevant.net/forums/forum/search-technologies/apache-solr/,
> >>>> and
> >>>>> I would be happy to donate it to the Apache Solr project, I can add
> >> all
> >>>> the
> >>>>> committers that are interested as moderators.
> >>>>> The forum already implements gamification, a modern UI, and easy
> >>> archive
> >>>>> (and SEO for Google and searchability of topics)
> >>>>> It will be live in the next couple of weeks, we are fixing some final
> >>>> bugs!
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Let me know!
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Cheers
> >>>>>
> >>>>> --------------------------
> >>>>> *Alessandro Benedetti*
> >>>>> Director @ Sease Ltd.
> >>>>> *Apache Lucene/Solr Committer*
> >>>>> *Apache Solr PMC Member*
> >>>>>
> >>>>> e-mail: a.benedetti@sease.io
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> *Sease* - Information Retrieval Applied
> >>>>> Consulting | Training | Open Source
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Website: Sease.io <http://sease.io/>
> >>>>> LinkedIn <https://linkedin.com/company/sease-ltd> | Twitter
> >>>>> <https://twitter.com/seaseltd> | Youtube
> >>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDx86ZKLYNpI3gzMercM7BQ> | Github
> >>>>> <https://github.com/seaseltd>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Mon, 15 May 2023 at 22:12, Ishan Chattopadhyaya <
> >>>>> ichattopadhyaya@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> This is a great idea! I think this is a much better alternative
> >> than
> >>>>>> current user and dev lists, which are handicapped by an atrocious
> >> UX
> >>>> for
> >>>>>> browsing archives (PonyMail).
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On Tue, 16 May, 2023, 1:34 am David Mackey, <da...@davemackey.net>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Hi All,
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> At yesterday's meeting I suggested that discussion forums might
> >> be
> >>>>> useful
> >>>>>>> for managing tension in communications and increasing the
> >>> visibility
> >>>> /
> >>>>>>> popularity of the Solr project. At the time this didn't seem
> >> viable
> >>>> due
> >>>>>> to
> >>>>>>> the centrality of mailing lists to ASF's communications but Eric
> >>>>>> suggested
> >>>>>>> that if other projects where using forums that Solr could as
> >> well.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> *(ASF Projects Using Discussion Forums)*
> >>>>>>> I did some research and discovered that a number of ASF projects
> >>> are
> >>>>>> using
> >>>>>>> forums:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> - Airflow <https://airflow.apache.org/community/>, Pulsar
> >>>>>>> <https://github.com/apache/pulsar/discussions>, RocketMQ
> >>>>>>> <https://github.com/apache/rocketmq>, ShardingSphere
> >>>>>>> <https://github.com/apache/shardingsphere>, StreamPipes
> >>>>>>> <https://github.com/apache/streampipes>, and Doris
> >>>>>>> <https://github.com/apache/doris> are all using GitHub
> >>>> Discussions
> >>>>>>> <https://github.com/apache/airflow/discussions>.
> >>>>>>> - TVM <https://tvm.apache.org/> uses Discourse
> >>>>>>> <https://discuss.tvm.apache.org/>.
> >>>>>>> - OpenOffice.org <http://openoffice.org/> uses phpBB
> >>>>>>> <
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>
> https://forum.openoffice.org/en/forum/index.php?sid=b4a0ff493ecb816d6a05cceaeee19283
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> .
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> *(Refined Role Proposal for Discussion Forums)*
> >>>>>>> Understanding better the fundamental nature of mailing lists to
> >> ASF
> >>>>>>> projects I'd like to suggest a more tightly scoped implementation
> >>> of
> >>>>>>> discussion forums for the Solr project:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> - As an adjunct to, not replacement of, mailing lists.
> >>>>>>> - With a focus on answering questions that users/developers
> >> have
> >>>>> that
> >>>>>>> are informational rather than decision making.
> >>>>>>> - And perhaps some early stage idea discussions before they
> >> are
> >>>>> ready
> >>>>>>> for a serious proposal.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> (*Advantages of Discussion Forums to Solr Community)*
> >>>>>>> I think this would offer the Solr community a few different
> >>>> advantages:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> - *Visible Vitality *- The Solr project has vitality but it
> >>> isn't
> >>>>>>> entirely visible. An active forum (discuss.elastic.co) can
> >>>> provide
> >>>>>> this
> >>>>>>> visibility.
> >>>>>>> - *Redundant Question Reduction* - Forums provide a way for
> >>> users
> >>>> to
> >>>>>>> find answers to questions that might otherwise be asked
> >>> repeatedly
> >>>>> in
> >>>>>>> Slack
> >>>>>>> chats or on the mailing lists.
> >>>>>>> - *Content Creation* - Users create valuable content (which is
> >>>>> indexed
> >>>>>>> by search engines) through their discussions.
> >>>>>>> - *Noise Reduction* - If at least some informational / idea
> >>>>>> discussions
> >>>>>>> were occurring in the forums the volume of emails on the
> >> mailing
> >>>>> list
> >>>>>>> would
> >>>>>>> be reduced.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> *(Recommended Implementation)*
> >>>>>>> While GitHub Discussions would be the easiest to implement I
> >> would
> >>>>>>> recommend Discourse. GitHub is developer-centric and as such
> >> would
> >>>>> likely
> >>>>>>> exclude most (non-dev) users.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Discourse (the org) offers Discourse (the software) as a hosted
> >>>> service
> >>>>>> for
> >>>>>>> free <
> >>>>>>
> >> https://blog.discourse.org/2018/11/free-hosting-for-open-source-v2/>
> >>>>>>> to open source projects.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I'm happy to help if this is something the Solr community would
> >> be
> >>>>>>> interested in. Thanks for taking the time to read and consider.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Sincerely,
> >>>>>>> Dave Mackey
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@solr.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@solr.apache.org
>
>
Re: Apache Projects and Discussion Forums
Posted by Jan Høydahl <ja...@cominvent.com>.
Perhaps stack overflow is willing to collaborate with infra for an SSO integration and provide an api for the asf to sync an archive copy of everything? Then it’d be an official alternative.
I know ml feels quite antiquated for newcomers.
Have you considered GitHub’s new “Discussion” tab? It’d perhaps be a more low hanging fruit given the pre-existing integration?
Jan Høydahl
> 10. okt. 2023 kl. 06:17 skrev David Smiley <ds...@apache.org>:
>
> At the ASF Community-over-Code conference today, I brought up this topic
> with ASF Directors and members at a session about project communication.
> Yes, a project could host something if a project (PMC) wants to, provided
> that the "dev list" remains where official project decisions are made.
> Also, there was advice against over-use of Slack for many reasons. I feel
> if we had a modern forum in place, we would not have been so tempted to
> setup Slack for users.
>
> My main concern for *adding* a forum is fragmentation for users/everyone
> with users@solr.apache.org. I would much prefer bidirectional integration
> (i.e. a bridge or gateway) so that a user can choose the
> UX/interaction-model they prefer. I don't want to cut the user community
> into silos that don't talk to each other. I looked at Discourse
> https://meta.discourse.org and tried to find if it's possible to
> bridge/gateway to existing mailing lists. I didn't see it but hopefully it
> exists? If not / in addition, the Solr user list can be imported into
> Discourse, but that's a one-time thing intended to transition in full.
> FWIW I support a complete transition to avoid fragmentation.
>
> BTW fragmentation is already the case via stack-overflow today. Granted I
> don't think there's been much traction there for Solr (yes some, but not
> much). I heard some projects out there completely embrace stack-overflow
> and perhaps don't have a user list or similar. A bold move but I get
> the appeal. It's so radical to my norms that I'm hesitant to suggest it
> for us but I can't think of a good reason I'd oppose it. Maybe some of you
> have opinions to share on that?
>
> ~ David Smiley
> Apache Lucene/Solr Search Developer
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/davidwsmiley
>
>
>> On Thu, May 18, 2023 at 2:53 PM David Mackey <da...@davemackey.net> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Everyone,
>>
>> I apologize for the delay in responding, I wanted to give some time for
>> others to share their thoughts and due to the mention of a dedicated
>> solr.apache.org URL (I wanted to verify if this was something Discourse
>> offered in their free plan for open source projects, unfortunately it is
>> not).
>>
>> I appreciate Alessandro's generous offer of hosting the forums on the
>> ir-relevant.net site however I'd lean towards having its forums fully
>> owned
>> by Apache/Solr. I am approaching this primarily from a visibility/marketing
>> perspective and I think having dedicated, official forums would be more
>> "impressive" to those considering Elastic <https://discuss.elastic.co/>,
>> OpenSearch <https://forum.opensearch.org/>, Solr, etc.
>>
>> I would love to see the forums hosted on the official Solr domain as Ishan
>> suggested. The Apache TVM project's discussion URL is
>> https://discuss.tvm.apache.org/, so Solr could potentially have one like:
>> https://discuss.solr.apache.org/
>>
>> I'd recommend using Discourse <https://discourse.org/> as the forum
>> software (it is what both Elastic and OpenSearch appear to be using). A
>> free
>> instance <https://free.discourse.group/> is available from Discourse for
>> open source projects. By default this instance would be hosted at
>> solr.discourse.group and unfortunately the free plan does not support
>> custom domains (though we could do a redirect from
>> https://discuss.solr.apache.org/ or similar the final url would still be
>> solr.discourse.group).
>>
>> If Solr exceeds the 50k/views/mo. (sustained traffic, not occasional
>> spikes) the free plan offers we'd need to upgrade to the Standard Plan
>> which is available at a 50% discount for nonprofits (regular price:
>> $100/mo.; discounted price: $50/mo.). Alternatively we could using a VPS
>> host with a ~$20/mo. instance. In any case, I wouldn't anticipate us
>> exceeding the free plans capabilities for quite some time.
>>
>> I'd suggest having two categories to start - End Users
>> (businesses/individuals who utilize the application) and Development (for
>> more code related topics). Two additional possible categories would be
>> Beginners, and Third-Party Integrations / Plugins but I'd suggest adding
>> these later after the forums gain some traction.
>>
>> I'd love to get something out there sooner than later and am happy to get
>> the instance setup and configured with Discourse if folks are amenable and
>> that would be helpful. I'd suggest using the free plan to start to expedite
>> the spin-up process.
>>
>> Sincerely,
>>
>> Dave Mackey
>>
>> On Tue, May 16, 2023 at 11:04 AM Alessandro Benedetti <
>> a.benedetti@sease.io>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I agree Ishan,
>>> just wanted to mention what I can donate from my company anyway.
>>> Happy to allow a customized logo and colors for the Solr section and
>> allow
>>> a redirect from solr.apache.org/discussions it that's something useful.
>>> Cheers
>>> --------------------------
>>> *Alessandro Benedetti*
>>> Director @ Sease Ltd.
>>> *Apache Lucene/Solr Committer*
>>> *Apache Solr PMC Member*
>>>
>>> e-mail: a.benedetti@sease.io
>>>
>>>
>>> *Sease* - Information Retrieval Applied
>>> Consulting | Training | Open Source
>>>
>>> Website: Sease.io <http://sease.io/>
>>> LinkedIn <https://linkedin.com/company/sease-ltd> | Twitter
>>> <https://twitter.com/seaseltd> | Youtube
>>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDx86ZKLYNpI3gzMercM7BQ> | Github
>>> <https://github.com/seaseltd>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, 16 May 2023 at 15:32, Ishan Chattopadhyaya <
>>> ichattopadhyaya@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I would prefer if this discussion forum is hosted at an official
>> domain,
>>>> e.g. solr.apache.org/discussions or something like that. That's the
>> only
>>>> right way to support an official solution.
>>>>
>>>> Can ASF help us here in any way?
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, 16 May, 2023, 2:09 pm Alessandro Benedetti, <
>>> a.benedetti@sease.io>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> We have been working for the last few months on an upcoming
>> Information
>>>>> Retrieval forum: https://ir-relevant.net
>>>>>
>>>>> This will be a fully free forum, sponsored by my company.
>>>>> We have an Apache Solr section:
>>>>>
>> https://ir-relevant.net/forums/forum/search-technologies/apache-solr/,
>>>> and
>>>>> I would be happy to donate it to the Apache Solr project, I can add
>> all
>>>> the
>>>>> committers that are interested as moderators.
>>>>> The forum already implements gamification, a modern UI, and easy
>>> archive
>>>>> (and SEO for Google and searchability of topics)
>>>>> It will be live in the next couple of weeks, we are fixing some final
>>>> bugs!
>>>>>
>>>>> Let me know!
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers
>>>>>
>>>>> --------------------------
>>>>> *Alessandro Benedetti*
>>>>> Director @ Sease Ltd.
>>>>> *Apache Lucene/Solr Committer*
>>>>> *Apache Solr PMC Member*
>>>>>
>>>>> e-mail: a.benedetti@sease.io
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *Sease* - Information Retrieval Applied
>>>>> Consulting | Training | Open Source
>>>>>
>>>>> Website: Sease.io <http://sease.io/>
>>>>> LinkedIn <https://linkedin.com/company/sease-ltd> | Twitter
>>>>> <https://twitter.com/seaseltd> | Youtube
>>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDx86ZKLYNpI3gzMercM7BQ> | Github
>>>>> <https://github.com/seaseltd>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, 15 May 2023 at 22:12, Ishan Chattopadhyaya <
>>>>> ichattopadhyaya@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> This is a great idea! I think this is a much better alternative
>> than
>>>>>> current user and dev lists, which are handicapped by an atrocious
>> UX
>>>> for
>>>>>> browsing archives (PonyMail).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, 16 May, 2023, 1:34 am David Mackey, <da...@davemackey.net>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi All,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> At yesterday's meeting I suggested that discussion forums might
>> be
>>>>> useful
>>>>>>> for managing tension in communications and increasing the
>>> visibility
>>>> /
>>>>>>> popularity of the Solr project. At the time this didn't seem
>> viable
>>>> due
>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> the centrality of mailing lists to ASF's communications but Eric
>>>>>> suggested
>>>>>>> that if other projects where using forums that Solr could as
>> well.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *(ASF Projects Using Discussion Forums)*
>>>>>>> I did some research and discovered that a number of ASF projects
>>> are
>>>>>> using
>>>>>>> forums:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - Airflow <https://airflow.apache.org/community/>, Pulsar
>>>>>>> <https://github.com/apache/pulsar/discussions>, RocketMQ
>>>>>>> <https://github.com/apache/rocketmq>, ShardingSphere
>>>>>>> <https://github.com/apache/shardingsphere>, StreamPipes
>>>>>>> <https://github.com/apache/streampipes>, and Doris
>>>>>>> <https://github.com/apache/doris> are all using GitHub
>>>> Discussions
>>>>>>> <https://github.com/apache/airflow/discussions>.
>>>>>>> - TVM <https://tvm.apache.org/> uses Discourse
>>>>>>> <https://discuss.tvm.apache.org/>.
>>>>>>> - OpenOffice.org <http://openoffice.org/> uses phpBB
>>>>>>> <
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>> https://forum.openoffice.org/en/forum/index.php?sid=b4a0ff493ecb816d6a05cceaeee19283
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *(Refined Role Proposal for Discussion Forums)*
>>>>>>> Understanding better the fundamental nature of mailing lists to
>> ASF
>>>>>>> projects I'd like to suggest a more tightly scoped implementation
>>> of
>>>>>>> discussion forums for the Solr project:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - As an adjunct to, not replacement of, mailing lists.
>>>>>>> - With a focus on answering questions that users/developers
>> have
>>>>> that
>>>>>>> are informational rather than decision making.
>>>>>>> - And perhaps some early stage idea discussions before they
>> are
>>>>> ready
>>>>>>> for a serious proposal.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> (*Advantages of Discussion Forums to Solr Community)*
>>>>>>> I think this would offer the Solr community a few different
>>>> advantages:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - *Visible Vitality *- The Solr project has vitality but it
>>> isn't
>>>>>>> entirely visible. An active forum (discuss.elastic.co) can
>>>> provide
>>>>>> this
>>>>>>> visibility.
>>>>>>> - *Redundant Question Reduction* - Forums provide a way for
>>> users
>>>> to
>>>>>>> find answers to questions that might otherwise be asked
>>> repeatedly
>>>>> in
>>>>>>> Slack
>>>>>>> chats or on the mailing lists.
>>>>>>> - *Content Creation* - Users create valuable content (which is
>>>>> indexed
>>>>>>> by search engines) through their discussions.
>>>>>>> - *Noise Reduction* - If at least some informational / idea
>>>>>> discussions
>>>>>>> were occurring in the forums the volume of emails on the
>> mailing
>>>>> list
>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>> be reduced.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *(Recommended Implementation)*
>>>>>>> While GitHub Discussions would be the easiest to implement I
>> would
>>>>>>> recommend Discourse. GitHub is developer-centric and as such
>> would
>>>>> likely
>>>>>>> exclude most (non-dev) users.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Discourse (the org) offers Discourse (the software) as a hosted
>>>> service
>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> free <
>>>>>>
>> https://blog.discourse.org/2018/11/free-hosting-for-open-source-v2/>
>>>>>>> to open source projects.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm happy to help if this is something the Solr community would
>> be
>>>>>>> interested in. Thanks for taking the time to read and consider.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>>>> Dave Mackey
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
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Re: Apache Projects and Discussion Forums
Posted by David Smiley <ds...@apache.org>.
At the ASF Community-over-Code conference today, I brought up this topic
with ASF Directors and members at a session about project communication.
Yes, a project could host something if a project (PMC) wants to, provided
that the "dev list" remains where official project decisions are made.
Also, there was advice against over-use of Slack for many reasons. I feel
if we had a modern forum in place, we would not have been so tempted to
setup Slack for users.
My main concern for *adding* a forum is fragmentation for users/everyone
with users@solr.apache.org. I would much prefer bidirectional integration
(i.e. a bridge or gateway) so that a user can choose the
UX/interaction-model they prefer. I don't want to cut the user community
into silos that don't talk to each other. I looked at Discourse
https://meta.discourse.org and tried to find if it's possible to
bridge/gateway to existing mailing lists. I didn't see it but hopefully it
exists? If not / in addition, the Solr user list can be imported into
Discourse, but that's a one-time thing intended to transition in full.
FWIW I support a complete transition to avoid fragmentation.
BTW fragmentation is already the case via stack-overflow today. Granted I
don't think there's been much traction there for Solr (yes some, but not
much). I heard some projects out there completely embrace stack-overflow
and perhaps don't have a user list or similar. A bold move but I get
the appeal. It's so radical to my norms that I'm hesitant to suggest it
for us but I can't think of a good reason I'd oppose it. Maybe some of you
have opinions to share on that?
~ David Smiley
Apache Lucene/Solr Search Developer
http://www.linkedin.com/in/davidwsmiley
On Thu, May 18, 2023 at 2:53 PM David Mackey <da...@davemackey.net> wrote:
> Hi Everyone,
>
> I apologize for the delay in responding, I wanted to give some time for
> others to share their thoughts and due to the mention of a dedicated
> solr.apache.org URL (I wanted to verify if this was something Discourse
> offered in their free plan for open source projects, unfortunately it is
> not).
>
> I appreciate Alessandro's generous offer of hosting the forums on the
> ir-relevant.net site however I'd lean towards having its forums fully
> owned
> by Apache/Solr. I am approaching this primarily from a visibility/marketing
> perspective and I think having dedicated, official forums would be more
> "impressive" to those considering Elastic <https://discuss.elastic.co/>,
> OpenSearch <https://forum.opensearch.org/>, Solr, etc.
>
> I would love to see the forums hosted on the official Solr domain as Ishan
> suggested. The Apache TVM project's discussion URL is
> https://discuss.tvm.apache.org/, so Solr could potentially have one like:
> https://discuss.solr.apache.org/
>
> I'd recommend using Discourse <https://discourse.org/> as the forum
> software (it is what both Elastic and OpenSearch appear to be using). A
> free
> instance <https://free.discourse.group/> is available from Discourse for
> open source projects. By default this instance would be hosted at
> solr.discourse.group and unfortunately the free plan does not support
> custom domains (though we could do a redirect from
> https://discuss.solr.apache.org/ or similar the final url would still be
> solr.discourse.group).
>
> If Solr exceeds the 50k/views/mo. (sustained traffic, not occasional
> spikes) the free plan offers we'd need to upgrade to the Standard Plan
> which is available at a 50% discount for nonprofits (regular price:
> $100/mo.; discounted price: $50/mo.). Alternatively we could using a VPS
> host with a ~$20/mo. instance. In any case, I wouldn't anticipate us
> exceeding the free plans capabilities for quite some time.
>
> I'd suggest having two categories to start - End Users
> (businesses/individuals who utilize the application) and Development (for
> more code related topics). Two additional possible categories would be
> Beginners, and Third-Party Integrations / Plugins but I'd suggest adding
> these later after the forums gain some traction.
>
> I'd love to get something out there sooner than later and am happy to get
> the instance setup and configured with Discourse if folks are amenable and
> that would be helpful. I'd suggest using the free plan to start to expedite
> the spin-up process.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Dave Mackey
>
> On Tue, May 16, 2023 at 11:04 AM Alessandro Benedetti <
> a.benedetti@sease.io>
> wrote:
>
> > I agree Ishan,
> > just wanted to mention what I can donate from my company anyway.
> > Happy to allow a customized logo and colors for the Solr section and
> allow
> > a redirect from solr.apache.org/discussions it that's something useful.
> > Cheers
> > --------------------------
> > *Alessandro Benedetti*
> > Director @ Sease Ltd.
> > *Apache Lucene/Solr Committer*
> > *Apache Solr PMC Member*
> >
> > e-mail: a.benedetti@sease.io
> >
> >
> > *Sease* - Information Retrieval Applied
> > Consulting | Training | Open Source
> >
> > Website: Sease.io <http://sease.io/>
> > LinkedIn <https://linkedin.com/company/sease-ltd> | Twitter
> > <https://twitter.com/seaseltd> | Youtube
> > <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDx86ZKLYNpI3gzMercM7BQ> | Github
> > <https://github.com/seaseltd>
> >
> >
> > On Tue, 16 May 2023 at 15:32, Ishan Chattopadhyaya <
> > ichattopadhyaya@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > I would prefer if this discussion forum is hosted at an official
> domain,
> > > e.g. solr.apache.org/discussions or something like that. That's the
> only
> > > right way to support an official solution.
> > >
> > > Can ASF help us here in any way?
> > >
> > > On Tue, 16 May, 2023, 2:09 pm Alessandro Benedetti, <
> > a.benedetti@sease.io>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > We have been working for the last few months on an upcoming
> Information
> > > > Retrieval forum: https://ir-relevant.net
> > > >
> > > > This will be a fully free forum, sponsored by my company.
> > > > We have an Apache Solr section:
> > > >
> https://ir-relevant.net/forums/forum/search-technologies/apache-solr/,
> > > and
> > > > I would be happy to donate it to the Apache Solr project, I can add
> all
> > > the
> > > > committers that are interested as moderators.
> > > > The forum already implements gamification, a modern UI, and easy
> > archive
> > > > (and SEO for Google and searchability of topics)
> > > > It will be live in the next couple of weeks, we are fixing some final
> > > bugs!
> > > >
> > > > Let me know!
> > > >
> > > > Cheers
> > > >
> > > > --------------------------
> > > > *Alessandro Benedetti*
> > > > Director @ Sease Ltd.
> > > > *Apache Lucene/Solr Committer*
> > > > *Apache Solr PMC Member*
> > > >
> > > > e-mail: a.benedetti@sease.io
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > *Sease* - Information Retrieval Applied
> > > > Consulting | Training | Open Source
> > > >
> > > > Website: Sease.io <http://sease.io/>
> > > > LinkedIn <https://linkedin.com/company/sease-ltd> | Twitter
> > > > <https://twitter.com/seaseltd> | Youtube
> > > > <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDx86ZKLYNpI3gzMercM7BQ> | Github
> > > > <https://github.com/seaseltd>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Mon, 15 May 2023 at 22:12, Ishan Chattopadhyaya <
> > > > ichattopadhyaya@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > This is a great idea! I think this is a much better alternative
> than
> > > > > current user and dev lists, which are handicapped by an atrocious
> UX
> > > for
> > > > > browsing archives (PonyMail).
> > > > >
> > > > > On Tue, 16 May, 2023, 1:34 am David Mackey, <da...@davemackey.net>
> > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Hi All,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > At yesterday's meeting I suggested that discussion forums might
> be
> > > > useful
> > > > > > for managing tension in communications and increasing the
> > visibility
> > > /
> > > > > > popularity of the Solr project. At the time this didn't seem
> viable
> > > due
> > > > > to
> > > > > > the centrality of mailing lists to ASF's communications but Eric
> > > > > suggested
> > > > > > that if other projects where using forums that Solr could as
> well.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > *(ASF Projects Using Discussion Forums)*
> > > > > > I did some research and discovered that a number of ASF projects
> > are
> > > > > using
> > > > > > forums:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > - Airflow <https://airflow.apache.org/community/>, Pulsar
> > > > > > <https://github.com/apache/pulsar/discussions>, RocketMQ
> > > > > > <https://github.com/apache/rocketmq>, ShardingSphere
> > > > > > <https://github.com/apache/shardingsphere>, StreamPipes
> > > > > > <https://github.com/apache/streampipes>, and Doris
> > > > > > <https://github.com/apache/doris> are all using GitHub
> > > Discussions
> > > > > > <https://github.com/apache/airflow/discussions>.
> > > > > > - TVM <https://tvm.apache.org/> uses Discourse
> > > > > > <https://discuss.tvm.apache.org/>.
> > > > > > - OpenOffice.org <http://openoffice.org/> uses phpBB
> > > > > > <
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://forum.openoffice.org/en/forum/index.php?sid=b4a0ff493ecb816d6a05cceaeee19283
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > .
> > > > > >
> > > > > > *(Refined Role Proposal for Discussion Forums)*
> > > > > > Understanding better the fundamental nature of mailing lists to
> ASF
> > > > > > projects I'd like to suggest a more tightly scoped implementation
> > of
> > > > > > discussion forums for the Solr project:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > - As an adjunct to, not replacement of, mailing lists.
> > > > > > - With a focus on answering questions that users/developers
> have
> > > > that
> > > > > > are informational rather than decision making.
> > > > > > - And perhaps some early stage idea discussions before they
> are
> > > > ready
> > > > > > for a serious proposal.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > (*Advantages of Discussion Forums to Solr Community)*
> > > > > > I think this would offer the Solr community a few different
> > > advantages:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > - *Visible Vitality *- The Solr project has vitality but it
> > isn't
> > > > > > entirely visible. An active forum (discuss.elastic.co) can
> > > provide
> > > > > this
> > > > > > visibility.
> > > > > > - *Redundant Question Reduction* - Forums provide a way for
> > users
> > > to
> > > > > > find answers to questions that might otherwise be asked
> > repeatedly
> > > > in
> > > > > > Slack
> > > > > > chats or on the mailing lists.
> > > > > > - *Content Creation* - Users create valuable content (which is
> > > > indexed
> > > > > > by search engines) through their discussions.
> > > > > > - *Noise Reduction* - If at least some informational / idea
> > > > > discussions
> > > > > > were occurring in the forums the volume of emails on the
> mailing
> > > > list
> > > > > > would
> > > > > > be reduced.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > *(Recommended Implementation)*
> > > > > > While GitHub Discussions would be the easiest to implement I
> would
> > > > > > recommend Discourse. GitHub is developer-centric and as such
> would
> > > > likely
> > > > > > exclude most (non-dev) users.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Discourse (the org) offers Discourse (the software) as a hosted
> > > service
> > > > > for
> > > > > > free <
> > > > >
> https://blog.discourse.org/2018/11/free-hosting-for-open-source-v2/>
> > > > > > to open source projects.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I'm happy to help if this is something the Solr community would
> be
> > > > > > interested in. Thanks for taking the time to read and consider.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Sincerely,
> > > > > > Dave Mackey
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
Re: Apache Projects and Discussion Forums
Posted by David Mackey <da...@davemackey.net>.
Hi Everyone,
I apologize for the delay in responding, I wanted to give some time for
others to share their thoughts and due to the mention of a dedicated
solr.apache.org URL (I wanted to verify if this was something Discourse
offered in their free plan for open source projects, unfortunately it is
not).
I appreciate Alessandro's generous offer of hosting the forums on the
ir-relevant.net site however I'd lean towards having its forums fully owned
by Apache/Solr. I am approaching this primarily from a visibility/marketing
perspective and I think having dedicated, official forums would be more
"impressive" to those considering Elastic <https://discuss.elastic.co/>,
OpenSearch <https://forum.opensearch.org/>, Solr, etc.
I would love to see the forums hosted on the official Solr domain as Ishan
suggested. The Apache TVM project's discussion URL is
https://discuss.tvm.apache.org/, so Solr could potentially have one like:
https://discuss.solr.apache.org/
I'd recommend using Discourse <https://discourse.org/> as the forum
software (it is what both Elastic and OpenSearch appear to be using). A free
instance <https://free.discourse.group/> is available from Discourse for
open source projects. By default this instance would be hosted at
solr.discourse.group and unfortunately the free plan does not support
custom domains (though we could do a redirect from
https://discuss.solr.apache.org/ or similar the final url would still be
solr.discourse.group).
If Solr exceeds the 50k/views/mo. (sustained traffic, not occasional
spikes) the free plan offers we'd need to upgrade to the Standard Plan
which is available at a 50% discount for nonprofits (regular price:
$100/mo.; discounted price: $50/mo.). Alternatively we could using a VPS
host with a ~$20/mo. instance. In any case, I wouldn't anticipate us
exceeding the free plans capabilities for quite some time.
I'd suggest having two categories to start - End Users
(businesses/individuals who utilize the application) and Development (for
more code related topics). Two additional possible categories would be
Beginners, and Third-Party Integrations / Plugins but I'd suggest adding
these later after the forums gain some traction.
I'd love to get something out there sooner than later and am happy to get
the instance setup and configured with Discourse if folks are amenable and
that would be helpful. I'd suggest using the free plan to start to expedite
the spin-up process.
Sincerely,
Dave Mackey
On Tue, May 16, 2023 at 11:04 AM Alessandro Benedetti <a....@sease.io>
wrote:
> I agree Ishan,
> just wanted to mention what I can donate from my company anyway.
> Happy to allow a customized logo and colors for the Solr section and allow
> a redirect from solr.apache.org/discussions it that's something useful.
> Cheers
> --------------------------
> *Alessandro Benedetti*
> Director @ Sease Ltd.
> *Apache Lucene/Solr Committer*
> *Apache Solr PMC Member*
>
> e-mail: a.benedetti@sease.io
>
>
> *Sease* - Information Retrieval Applied
> Consulting | Training | Open Source
>
> Website: Sease.io <http://sease.io/>
> LinkedIn <https://linkedin.com/company/sease-ltd> | Twitter
> <https://twitter.com/seaseltd> | Youtube
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDx86ZKLYNpI3gzMercM7BQ> | Github
> <https://github.com/seaseltd>
>
>
> On Tue, 16 May 2023 at 15:32, Ishan Chattopadhyaya <
> ichattopadhyaya@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I would prefer if this discussion forum is hosted at an official domain,
> > e.g. solr.apache.org/discussions or something like that. That's the only
> > right way to support an official solution.
> >
> > Can ASF help us here in any way?
> >
> > On Tue, 16 May, 2023, 2:09 pm Alessandro Benedetti, <
> a.benedetti@sease.io>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > We have been working for the last few months on an upcoming Information
> > > Retrieval forum: https://ir-relevant.net
> > >
> > > This will be a fully free forum, sponsored by my company.
> > > We have an Apache Solr section:
> > > https://ir-relevant.net/forums/forum/search-technologies/apache-solr/,
> > and
> > > I would be happy to donate it to the Apache Solr project, I can add all
> > the
> > > committers that are interested as moderators.
> > > The forum already implements gamification, a modern UI, and easy
> archive
> > > (and SEO for Google and searchability of topics)
> > > It will be live in the next couple of weeks, we are fixing some final
> > bugs!
> > >
> > > Let me know!
> > >
> > > Cheers
> > >
> > > --------------------------
> > > *Alessandro Benedetti*
> > > Director @ Sease Ltd.
> > > *Apache Lucene/Solr Committer*
> > > *Apache Solr PMC Member*
> > >
> > > e-mail: a.benedetti@sease.io
> > >
> > >
> > > *Sease* - Information Retrieval Applied
> > > Consulting | Training | Open Source
> > >
> > > Website: Sease.io <http://sease.io/>
> > > LinkedIn <https://linkedin.com/company/sease-ltd> | Twitter
> > > <https://twitter.com/seaseltd> | Youtube
> > > <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDx86ZKLYNpI3gzMercM7BQ> | Github
> > > <https://github.com/seaseltd>
> > >
> > >
> > > On Mon, 15 May 2023 at 22:12, Ishan Chattopadhyaya <
> > > ichattopadhyaya@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > This is a great idea! I think this is a much better alternative than
> > > > current user and dev lists, which are handicapped by an atrocious UX
> > for
> > > > browsing archives (PonyMail).
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, 16 May, 2023, 1:34 am David Mackey, <da...@davemackey.net>
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hi All,
> > > > >
> > > > > At yesterday's meeting I suggested that discussion forums might be
> > > useful
> > > > > for managing tension in communications and increasing the
> visibility
> > /
> > > > > popularity of the Solr project. At the time this didn't seem viable
> > due
> > > > to
> > > > > the centrality of mailing lists to ASF's communications but Eric
> > > > suggested
> > > > > that if other projects where using forums that Solr could as well.
> > > > >
> > > > > *(ASF Projects Using Discussion Forums)*
> > > > > I did some research and discovered that a number of ASF projects
> are
> > > > using
> > > > > forums:
> > > > >
> > > > > - Airflow <https://airflow.apache.org/community/>, Pulsar
> > > > > <https://github.com/apache/pulsar/discussions>, RocketMQ
> > > > > <https://github.com/apache/rocketmq>, ShardingSphere
> > > > > <https://github.com/apache/shardingsphere>, StreamPipes
> > > > > <https://github.com/apache/streampipes>, and Doris
> > > > > <https://github.com/apache/doris> are all using GitHub
> > Discussions
> > > > > <https://github.com/apache/airflow/discussions>.
> > > > > - TVM <https://tvm.apache.org/> uses Discourse
> > > > > <https://discuss.tvm.apache.org/>.
> > > > > - OpenOffice.org <http://openoffice.org/> uses phpBB
> > > > > <
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://forum.openoffice.org/en/forum/index.php?sid=b4a0ff493ecb816d6a05cceaeee19283
> > > > > >
> > > > > .
> > > > >
> > > > > *(Refined Role Proposal for Discussion Forums)*
> > > > > Understanding better the fundamental nature of mailing lists to ASF
> > > > > projects I'd like to suggest a more tightly scoped implementation
> of
> > > > > discussion forums for the Solr project:
> > > > >
> > > > > - As an adjunct to, not replacement of, mailing lists.
> > > > > - With a focus on answering questions that users/developers have
> > > that
> > > > > are informational rather than decision making.
> > > > > - And perhaps some early stage idea discussions before they are
> > > ready
> > > > > for a serious proposal.
> > > > >
> > > > > (*Advantages of Discussion Forums to Solr Community)*
> > > > > I think this would offer the Solr community a few different
> > advantages:
> > > > >
> > > > > - *Visible Vitality *- The Solr project has vitality but it
> isn't
> > > > > entirely visible. An active forum (discuss.elastic.co) can
> > provide
> > > > this
> > > > > visibility.
> > > > > - *Redundant Question Reduction* - Forums provide a way for
> users
> > to
> > > > > find answers to questions that might otherwise be asked
> repeatedly
> > > in
> > > > > Slack
> > > > > chats or on the mailing lists.
> > > > > - *Content Creation* - Users create valuable content (which is
> > > indexed
> > > > > by search engines) through their discussions.
> > > > > - *Noise Reduction* - If at least some informational / idea
> > > > discussions
> > > > > were occurring in the forums the volume of emails on the mailing
> > > list
> > > > > would
> > > > > be reduced.
> > > > >
> > > > > *(Recommended Implementation)*
> > > > > While GitHub Discussions would be the easiest to implement I would
> > > > > recommend Discourse. GitHub is developer-centric and as such would
> > > likely
> > > > > exclude most (non-dev) users.
> > > > >
> > > > > Discourse (the org) offers Discourse (the software) as a hosted
> > service
> > > > for
> > > > > free <
> > > > https://blog.discourse.org/2018/11/free-hosting-for-open-source-v2/>
> > > > > to open source projects.
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm happy to help if this is something the Solr community would be
> > > > > interested in. Thanks for taking the time to read and consider.
> > > > >
> > > > > Sincerely,
> > > > > Dave Mackey
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
Re: Apache Projects and Discussion Forums
Posted by Alessandro Benedetti <a....@sease.io>.
I agree Ishan,
just wanted to mention what I can donate from my company anyway.
Happy to allow a customized logo and colors for the Solr section and allow
a redirect from solr.apache.org/discussions it that's something useful.
Cheers
--------------------------
*Alessandro Benedetti*
Director @ Sease Ltd.
*Apache Lucene/Solr Committer*
*Apache Solr PMC Member*
e-mail: a.benedetti@sease.io
*Sease* - Information Retrieval Applied
Consulting | Training | Open Source
Website: Sease.io <http://sease.io/>
LinkedIn <https://linkedin.com/company/sease-ltd> | Twitter
<https://twitter.com/seaseltd> | Youtube
<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDx86ZKLYNpI3gzMercM7BQ> | Github
<https://github.com/seaseltd>
On Tue, 16 May 2023 at 15:32, Ishan Chattopadhyaya <
ichattopadhyaya@gmail.com> wrote:
> I would prefer if this discussion forum is hosted at an official domain,
> e.g. solr.apache.org/discussions or something like that. That's the only
> right way to support an official solution.
>
> Can ASF help us here in any way?
>
> On Tue, 16 May, 2023, 2:09 pm Alessandro Benedetti, <a....@sease.io>
> wrote:
>
> > We have been working for the last few months on an upcoming Information
> > Retrieval forum: https://ir-relevant.net
> >
> > This will be a fully free forum, sponsored by my company.
> > We have an Apache Solr section:
> > https://ir-relevant.net/forums/forum/search-technologies/apache-solr/,
> and
> > I would be happy to donate it to the Apache Solr project, I can add all
> the
> > committers that are interested as moderators.
> > The forum already implements gamification, a modern UI, and easy archive
> > (and SEO for Google and searchability of topics)
> > It will be live in the next couple of weeks, we are fixing some final
> bugs!
> >
> > Let me know!
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> > --------------------------
> > *Alessandro Benedetti*
> > Director @ Sease Ltd.
> > *Apache Lucene/Solr Committer*
> > *Apache Solr PMC Member*
> >
> > e-mail: a.benedetti@sease.io
> >
> >
> > *Sease* - Information Retrieval Applied
> > Consulting | Training | Open Source
> >
> > Website: Sease.io <http://sease.io/>
> > LinkedIn <https://linkedin.com/company/sease-ltd> | Twitter
> > <https://twitter.com/seaseltd> | Youtube
> > <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDx86ZKLYNpI3gzMercM7BQ> | Github
> > <https://github.com/seaseltd>
> >
> >
> > On Mon, 15 May 2023 at 22:12, Ishan Chattopadhyaya <
> > ichattopadhyaya@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > This is a great idea! I think this is a much better alternative than
> > > current user and dev lists, which are handicapped by an atrocious UX
> for
> > > browsing archives (PonyMail).
> > >
> > > On Tue, 16 May, 2023, 1:34 am David Mackey, <da...@davemackey.net>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi All,
> > > >
> > > > At yesterday's meeting I suggested that discussion forums might be
> > useful
> > > > for managing tension in communications and increasing the visibility
> /
> > > > popularity of the Solr project. At the time this didn't seem viable
> due
> > > to
> > > > the centrality of mailing lists to ASF's communications but Eric
> > > suggested
> > > > that if other projects where using forums that Solr could as well.
> > > >
> > > > *(ASF Projects Using Discussion Forums)*
> > > > I did some research and discovered that a number of ASF projects are
> > > using
> > > > forums:
> > > >
> > > > - Airflow <https://airflow.apache.org/community/>, Pulsar
> > > > <https://github.com/apache/pulsar/discussions>, RocketMQ
> > > > <https://github.com/apache/rocketmq>, ShardingSphere
> > > > <https://github.com/apache/shardingsphere>, StreamPipes
> > > > <https://github.com/apache/streampipes>, and Doris
> > > > <https://github.com/apache/doris> are all using GitHub
> Discussions
> > > > <https://github.com/apache/airflow/discussions>.
> > > > - TVM <https://tvm.apache.org/> uses Discourse
> > > > <https://discuss.tvm.apache.org/>.
> > > > - OpenOffice.org <http://openoffice.org/> uses phpBB
> > > > <
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://forum.openoffice.org/en/forum/index.php?sid=b4a0ff493ecb816d6a05cceaeee19283
> > > > >
> > > > .
> > > >
> > > > *(Refined Role Proposal for Discussion Forums)*
> > > > Understanding better the fundamental nature of mailing lists to ASF
> > > > projects I'd like to suggest a more tightly scoped implementation of
> > > > discussion forums for the Solr project:
> > > >
> > > > - As an adjunct to, not replacement of, mailing lists.
> > > > - With a focus on answering questions that users/developers have
> > that
> > > > are informational rather than decision making.
> > > > - And perhaps some early stage idea discussions before they are
> > ready
> > > > for a serious proposal.
> > > >
> > > > (*Advantages of Discussion Forums to Solr Community)*
> > > > I think this would offer the Solr community a few different
> advantages:
> > > >
> > > > - *Visible Vitality *- The Solr project has vitality but it isn't
> > > > entirely visible. An active forum (discuss.elastic.co) can
> provide
> > > this
> > > > visibility.
> > > > - *Redundant Question Reduction* - Forums provide a way for users
> to
> > > > find answers to questions that might otherwise be asked repeatedly
> > in
> > > > Slack
> > > > chats or on the mailing lists.
> > > > - *Content Creation* - Users create valuable content (which is
> > indexed
> > > > by search engines) through their discussions.
> > > > - *Noise Reduction* - If at least some informational / idea
> > > discussions
> > > > were occurring in the forums the volume of emails on the mailing
> > list
> > > > would
> > > > be reduced.
> > > >
> > > > *(Recommended Implementation)*
> > > > While GitHub Discussions would be the easiest to implement I would
> > > > recommend Discourse. GitHub is developer-centric and as such would
> > likely
> > > > exclude most (non-dev) users.
> > > >
> > > > Discourse (the org) offers Discourse (the software) as a hosted
> service
> > > for
> > > > free <
> > > https://blog.discourse.org/2018/11/free-hosting-for-open-source-v2/>
> > > > to open source projects.
> > > >
> > > > I'm happy to help if this is something the Solr community would be
> > > > interested in. Thanks for taking the time to read and consider.
> > > >
> > > > Sincerely,
> > > > Dave Mackey
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
Re: Apache Projects and Discussion Forums
Posted by Ishan Chattopadhyaya <ic...@gmail.com>.
I would prefer if this discussion forum is hosted at an official domain,
e.g. solr.apache.org/discussions or something like that. That's the only
right way to support an official solution.
Can ASF help us here in any way?
On Tue, 16 May, 2023, 2:09 pm Alessandro Benedetti, <a....@sease.io>
wrote:
> We have been working for the last few months on an upcoming Information
> Retrieval forum: https://ir-relevant.net
>
> This will be a fully free forum, sponsored by my company.
> We have an Apache Solr section:
> https://ir-relevant.net/forums/forum/search-technologies/apache-solr/, and
> I would be happy to donate it to the Apache Solr project, I can add all the
> committers that are interested as moderators.
> The forum already implements gamification, a modern UI, and easy archive
> (and SEO for Google and searchability of topics)
> It will be live in the next couple of weeks, we are fixing some final bugs!
>
> Let me know!
>
> Cheers
>
> --------------------------
> *Alessandro Benedetti*
> Director @ Sease Ltd.
> *Apache Lucene/Solr Committer*
> *Apache Solr PMC Member*
>
> e-mail: a.benedetti@sease.io
>
>
> *Sease* - Information Retrieval Applied
> Consulting | Training | Open Source
>
> Website: Sease.io <http://sease.io/>
> LinkedIn <https://linkedin.com/company/sease-ltd> | Twitter
> <https://twitter.com/seaseltd> | Youtube
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDx86ZKLYNpI3gzMercM7BQ> | Github
> <https://github.com/seaseltd>
>
>
> On Mon, 15 May 2023 at 22:12, Ishan Chattopadhyaya <
> ichattopadhyaya@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > This is a great idea! I think this is a much better alternative than
> > current user and dev lists, which are handicapped by an atrocious UX for
> > browsing archives (PonyMail).
> >
> > On Tue, 16 May, 2023, 1:34 am David Mackey, <da...@davemackey.net> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi All,
> > >
> > > At yesterday's meeting I suggested that discussion forums might be
> useful
> > > for managing tension in communications and increasing the visibility /
> > > popularity of the Solr project. At the time this didn't seem viable due
> > to
> > > the centrality of mailing lists to ASF's communications but Eric
> > suggested
> > > that if other projects where using forums that Solr could as well.
> > >
> > > *(ASF Projects Using Discussion Forums)*
> > > I did some research and discovered that a number of ASF projects are
> > using
> > > forums:
> > >
> > > - Airflow <https://airflow.apache.org/community/>, Pulsar
> > > <https://github.com/apache/pulsar/discussions>, RocketMQ
> > > <https://github.com/apache/rocketmq>, ShardingSphere
> > > <https://github.com/apache/shardingsphere>, StreamPipes
> > > <https://github.com/apache/streampipes>, and Doris
> > > <https://github.com/apache/doris> are all using GitHub Discussions
> > > <https://github.com/apache/airflow/discussions>.
> > > - TVM <https://tvm.apache.org/> uses Discourse
> > > <https://discuss.tvm.apache.org/>.
> > > - OpenOffice.org <http://openoffice.org/> uses phpBB
> > > <
> > >
> >
> https://forum.openoffice.org/en/forum/index.php?sid=b4a0ff493ecb816d6a05cceaeee19283
> > > >
> > > .
> > >
> > > *(Refined Role Proposal for Discussion Forums)*
> > > Understanding better the fundamental nature of mailing lists to ASF
> > > projects I'd like to suggest a more tightly scoped implementation of
> > > discussion forums for the Solr project:
> > >
> > > - As an adjunct to, not replacement of, mailing lists.
> > > - With a focus on answering questions that users/developers have
> that
> > > are informational rather than decision making.
> > > - And perhaps some early stage idea discussions before they are
> ready
> > > for a serious proposal.
> > >
> > > (*Advantages of Discussion Forums to Solr Community)*
> > > I think this would offer the Solr community a few different advantages:
> > >
> > > - *Visible Vitality *- The Solr project has vitality but it isn't
> > > entirely visible. An active forum (discuss.elastic.co) can provide
> > this
> > > visibility.
> > > - *Redundant Question Reduction* - Forums provide a way for users to
> > > find answers to questions that might otherwise be asked repeatedly
> in
> > > Slack
> > > chats or on the mailing lists.
> > > - *Content Creation* - Users create valuable content (which is
> indexed
> > > by search engines) through their discussions.
> > > - *Noise Reduction* - If at least some informational / idea
> > discussions
> > > were occurring in the forums the volume of emails on the mailing
> list
> > > would
> > > be reduced.
> > >
> > > *(Recommended Implementation)*
> > > While GitHub Discussions would be the easiest to implement I would
> > > recommend Discourse. GitHub is developer-centric and as such would
> likely
> > > exclude most (non-dev) users.
> > >
> > > Discourse (the org) offers Discourse (the software) as a hosted service
> > for
> > > free <
> > https://blog.discourse.org/2018/11/free-hosting-for-open-source-v2/>
> > > to open source projects.
> > >
> > > I'm happy to help if this is something the Solr community would be
> > > interested in. Thanks for taking the time to read and consider.
> > >
> > > Sincerely,
> > > Dave Mackey
> > >
> >
>
Re: Apache Projects and Discussion Forums
Posted by Alessandro Benedetti <a....@sease.io>.
We have been working for the last few months on an upcoming Information
Retrieval forum: https://ir-relevant.net
This will be a fully free forum, sponsored by my company.
We have an Apache Solr section:
https://ir-relevant.net/forums/forum/search-technologies/apache-solr/, and
I would be happy to donate it to the Apache Solr project, I can add all the
committers that are interested as moderators.
The forum already implements gamification, a modern UI, and easy archive
(and SEO for Google and searchability of topics)
It will be live in the next couple of weeks, we are fixing some final bugs!
Let me know!
Cheers
--------------------------
*Alessandro Benedetti*
Director @ Sease Ltd.
*Apache Lucene/Solr Committer*
*Apache Solr PMC Member*
e-mail: a.benedetti@sease.io
*Sease* - Information Retrieval Applied
Consulting | Training | Open Source
Website: Sease.io <http://sease.io/>
LinkedIn <https://linkedin.com/company/sease-ltd> | Twitter
<https://twitter.com/seaseltd> | Youtube
<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDx86ZKLYNpI3gzMercM7BQ> | Github
<https://github.com/seaseltd>
On Mon, 15 May 2023 at 22:12, Ishan Chattopadhyaya <
ichattopadhyaya@gmail.com> wrote:
> This is a great idea! I think this is a much better alternative than
> current user and dev lists, which are handicapped by an atrocious UX for
> browsing archives (PonyMail).
>
> On Tue, 16 May, 2023, 1:34 am David Mackey, <da...@davemackey.net> wrote:
>
> > Hi All,
> >
> > At yesterday's meeting I suggested that discussion forums might be useful
> > for managing tension in communications and increasing the visibility /
> > popularity of the Solr project. At the time this didn't seem viable due
> to
> > the centrality of mailing lists to ASF's communications but Eric
> suggested
> > that if other projects where using forums that Solr could as well.
> >
> > *(ASF Projects Using Discussion Forums)*
> > I did some research and discovered that a number of ASF projects are
> using
> > forums:
> >
> > - Airflow <https://airflow.apache.org/community/>, Pulsar
> > <https://github.com/apache/pulsar/discussions>, RocketMQ
> > <https://github.com/apache/rocketmq>, ShardingSphere
> > <https://github.com/apache/shardingsphere>, StreamPipes
> > <https://github.com/apache/streampipes>, and Doris
> > <https://github.com/apache/doris> are all using GitHub Discussions
> > <https://github.com/apache/airflow/discussions>.
> > - TVM <https://tvm.apache.org/> uses Discourse
> > <https://discuss.tvm.apache.org/>.
> > - OpenOffice.org <http://openoffice.org/> uses phpBB
> > <
> >
> https://forum.openoffice.org/en/forum/index.php?sid=b4a0ff493ecb816d6a05cceaeee19283
> > >
> > .
> >
> > *(Refined Role Proposal for Discussion Forums)*
> > Understanding better the fundamental nature of mailing lists to ASF
> > projects I'd like to suggest a more tightly scoped implementation of
> > discussion forums for the Solr project:
> >
> > - As an adjunct to, not replacement of, mailing lists.
> > - With a focus on answering questions that users/developers have that
> > are informational rather than decision making.
> > - And perhaps some early stage idea discussions before they are ready
> > for a serious proposal.
> >
> > (*Advantages of Discussion Forums to Solr Community)*
> > I think this would offer the Solr community a few different advantages:
> >
> > - *Visible Vitality *- The Solr project has vitality but it isn't
> > entirely visible. An active forum (discuss.elastic.co) can provide
> this
> > visibility.
> > - *Redundant Question Reduction* - Forums provide a way for users to
> > find answers to questions that might otherwise be asked repeatedly in
> > Slack
> > chats or on the mailing lists.
> > - *Content Creation* - Users create valuable content (which is indexed
> > by search engines) through their discussions.
> > - *Noise Reduction* - If at least some informational / idea
> discussions
> > were occurring in the forums the volume of emails on the mailing list
> > would
> > be reduced.
> >
> > *(Recommended Implementation)*
> > While GitHub Discussions would be the easiest to implement I would
> > recommend Discourse. GitHub is developer-centric and as such would likely
> > exclude most (non-dev) users.
> >
> > Discourse (the org) offers Discourse (the software) as a hosted service
> for
> > free <
> https://blog.discourse.org/2018/11/free-hosting-for-open-source-v2/>
> > to open source projects.
> >
> > I'm happy to help if this is something the Solr community would be
> > interested in. Thanks for taking the time to read and consider.
> >
> > Sincerely,
> > Dave Mackey
> >
>
Re: Apache Projects and Discussion Forums
Posted by Ishan Chattopadhyaya <ic...@gmail.com>.
This is a great idea! I think this is a much better alternative than
current user and dev lists, which are handicapped by an atrocious UX for
browsing archives (PonyMail).
On Tue, 16 May, 2023, 1:34 am David Mackey, <da...@davemackey.net> wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> At yesterday's meeting I suggested that discussion forums might be useful
> for managing tension in communications and increasing the visibility /
> popularity of the Solr project. At the time this didn't seem viable due to
> the centrality of mailing lists to ASF's communications but Eric suggested
> that if other projects where using forums that Solr could as well.
>
> *(ASF Projects Using Discussion Forums)*
> I did some research and discovered that a number of ASF projects are using
> forums:
>
> - Airflow <https://airflow.apache.org/community/>, Pulsar
> <https://github.com/apache/pulsar/discussions>, RocketMQ
> <https://github.com/apache/rocketmq>, ShardingSphere
> <https://github.com/apache/shardingsphere>, StreamPipes
> <https://github.com/apache/streampipes>, and Doris
> <https://github.com/apache/doris> are all using GitHub Discussions
> <https://github.com/apache/airflow/discussions>.
> - TVM <https://tvm.apache.org/> uses Discourse
> <https://discuss.tvm.apache.org/>.
> - OpenOffice.org <http://openoffice.org/> uses phpBB
> <
> https://forum.openoffice.org/en/forum/index.php?sid=b4a0ff493ecb816d6a05cceaeee19283
> >
> .
>
> *(Refined Role Proposal for Discussion Forums)*
> Understanding better the fundamental nature of mailing lists to ASF
> projects I'd like to suggest a more tightly scoped implementation of
> discussion forums for the Solr project:
>
> - As an adjunct to, not replacement of, mailing lists.
> - With a focus on answering questions that users/developers have that
> are informational rather than decision making.
> - And perhaps some early stage idea discussions before they are ready
> for a serious proposal.
>
> (*Advantages of Discussion Forums to Solr Community)*
> I think this would offer the Solr community a few different advantages:
>
> - *Visible Vitality *- The Solr project has vitality but it isn't
> entirely visible. An active forum (discuss.elastic.co) can provide this
> visibility.
> - *Redundant Question Reduction* - Forums provide a way for users to
> find answers to questions that might otherwise be asked repeatedly in
> Slack
> chats or on the mailing lists.
> - *Content Creation* - Users create valuable content (which is indexed
> by search engines) through their discussions.
> - *Noise Reduction* - If at least some informational / idea discussions
> were occurring in the forums the volume of emails on the mailing list
> would
> be reduced.
>
> *(Recommended Implementation)*
> While GitHub Discussions would be the easiest to implement I would
> recommend Discourse. GitHub is developer-centric and as such would likely
> exclude most (non-dev) users.
>
> Discourse (the org) offers Discourse (the software) as a hosted service for
> free <https://blog.discourse.org/2018/11/free-hosting-for-open-source-v2/>
> to open source projects.
>
> I'm happy to help if this is something the Solr community would be
> interested in. Thanks for taking the time to read and consider.
>
> Sincerely,
> Dave Mackey
>