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Posted to dev@openoffice.apache.org by Ross Gardler <rg...@opendirective.com> on 2011/12/15 00:26:38 UTC
Too many lists
I'm really concerned about the tendency of the AOO project to keep
proposing and seriously considering new lists (well that is probably
over stating it, but I am genuinely concerned).
Each time you create a list you separate the community from itself. It
should not happen until there is a proven need for it. Splitting the
community in this way leads to questions like "which list should this
be on" and subsequently "which list should I search to find the answer
to this".
The most recent example is the I10n proposal. It will, probably,
become necessary to create such a list in the future. But i10n affects
everyone, not just those doing translations. The discussion about how
to structure the I10n effort in AOO should happen here where everyone
can easily find it.
Clear email subjects will allow people to quickly skip over emails on
topics they are not concerned about, but it ensures that nobody is
forced off into a quiet corner where they are all alone.
Ross
--
Ross Gardler (@rgardler)
Programme Leader (Open Development)
OpenDirective http://opendirective.com
Re: Too many lists
Posted by Daniel Shahaf <d....@daniel.shahaf.name>.
Shane Curcuru wrote on Thu, Dec 15, 2011 at 09:15:02 -0500:
> A side note:
>
> On 2011-12-14 11:33 PM, Raphael Bircher wrote:
> ...snip...
> >the ooo-dev@i.a.o
> >is one of the moast active ML at the whole Apche project.
>
> For those interested in activity statistics:
>
> http://pulse.apache.org/#statistics
>
> ooo-dev@ is clearly in the top 5 most active lists at the ASF recently.
Recently? Check the "last updated" timestamp on that page.
Re: Too many lists
Posted by Shane Curcuru <as...@shanecurcuru.org>.
A side note:
On 2011-12-14 11:33 PM, Raphael Bircher wrote:
...snip...
>the ooo-dev@i.a.o
> is one of the moast active ML at the whole Apche project.
For those interested in activity statistics:
http://pulse.apache.org/#statistics
ooo-dev@ is clearly in the top 5 most active lists at the ASF recently.
This is a difficult situation, especially because the podling is still
in the Incubator. We have to simultaneously ensure that the core
community of committers gets a shared sense of purpose, so they can
become a healthy community in terms of applying the Apache Way. We also
have to - in the case of AOO - attract plenty of new contributors in all
sorts of areas, especially non-development ones.
We are adding new lists. We should just be cautious and very clear on
how and when we add them to ensure that there's sufficient interested -
and Apache Way clueful - participants on any new lists.
It would be very very helpful if someone with an end-user writer
experience tried to better explain what each of the different lists are
for (in the perspective of a new person) at
/openofficeorg/mailing-lists.html Similarly, it would be useful to have
more pointers to that page, so newcomers can quickly and easily
understand where they might want to ask questions (or, if they're users,
perhaps the forums...)
- Shane
Re: Too many lists
Posted by Louis Suárez-Potts <lu...@gmail.com>.
Hi,
First, as I've stated below, I quite agree with Ross. Too many lists is not good, it's actually recipe for loneliness. It works against—very much against—precisely supra projects like Apache are meant to foster: cross-communication, discovery, serendipity.
Recall: Our policy at OOo was exactly the one that Raphael articulates. Less is better than more. I used to have to approve every new list proposed, and Stefan and I did this because we both felt—he more than I, at first, until I realized how right he was—that having fewer is better than more.
Comments inline…
On 2011-12-14, at 23:33 , Raphael Bircher wrote:
> Am 15.12.11 00:26, schrieb Ross Gardler:
>> I'm really concerned about the tendency of the AOO project to keep
>> proposing and seriously considering new lists (well that is probably
>> over stating it, but I am genuinely concerned).
>>
>> Each time you create a list you separate the community from itself. It
>> should not happen until there is a proven need for it. Splitting the
>> community in this way leads to questions like "which list should this
>> be on" and subsequently "which list should I search to find the answer
>> to this".
>
snip
> Sure the ASF has a load of experionce an building developer Communities. But I think the OOo project has much more experience in local community building, Translation and Localization, and Documentation. Please give us our space we need to grow up here.
Raphael: As I mentioned, in fact, OOo's policy was exactly Apache's. If a new list is really demanded, and I can think of a couple of instances where it might be, then it ought to be created. But that comes *after the fact*. We went through this on OOo. The complaint was that moving archives was a pain. But one does not have to move archives; and it's much less of a pain now than it used to be. (OOo and ASF use the same email application, btw.)
I would thus urge that we be as parsimonious as possible, when it comes to lists, and that, indeed, we do follow OOo's 11 year experience and realize that it's much better to have a few intense lists with some noise but a lot of great signal than to have many lists with little noise and even less signal worth the list.
best
Louis
Re: Too many lists
Posted by Raphael Bircher <r....@gmx.ch>.
Am 15.12.11 07:36, schrieb Ross Gardler:
> On 15 December 2011 04:33, Raphael Bircher<r....@gmx.ch> wrote:
>> Am 15.12.11 00:26, schrieb Ross Gardler:
>>
>>> I'm really concerned about the tendency of the AOO project to keep
>>> proposing and seriously considering new lists (well that is probably
>>> over stating it, but I am genuinely concerned).
>>>
>>> Each time you create a list you separate the community from itself. It
>>> should not happen until there is a proven need for it. Splitting the
>>> community in this way leads to questions like "which list should this
>>> be on" and subsequently "which list should I search to find the answer
>>> to this".
>> If you have only one list you endup with the question. "Wich E-Mail should I
>> read and wich not". I for my person read a mailing list with about 30 mails
>> per dey.
> I agree, but my point is that we are not anywhere near 30 mails per
> day on, for example, I10n.
l10n has also not started yet. The l10n work for the 3.4 is done. So
l10n will start with the 3.5 again. For my point of view you have to
start the list befor they have to work. They heve to find them self, to
make the preparation etc. The same for NLC Projects.
>
> The use of good subjects helps people decide what to read (especially
> if tags are used as previously discussed).
>
> Yesterday I read "lets use the marketing list more" (or words to that
> affect). Why was the list created if it was not going to be used?
>
> How did OOo get to hundreds of unused lists which we get accused of
> not mailing about the move to AOO because people had fallen out of the
> habit of reading them because nothing important ever happens there.
You have also inactive mailing Lists at Apache. I think that's the
nature of a project with 10 year history. Sametimes a ML is important
for a part of the Time. MacPort is a good exemple for it. During the
native port we have had about 200 and more mails per day, and a realy
active IRC Channel. Now both is unused, because the big work is done.
> Read my mail again, I didn't say *never* create new lists.
>
I also not ask for 300 lists. But AOO is a big project who has also many
local community. And this local community are important for AOO. And for
this reason OOo need probabily same more lists as other Apache projects.
But the main point is that I beleve the "One Project, one community"
philosophy will not work at OOo. You will ever have separated Groups,
like Programmers, Translators, Doc Writers, etc. This separation is also
not bad, as long you talk with each other.
--
My private Homepage: http://www.raphaelbircher.ch/
Re: Too many lists
Posted by Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org>.
2011/12/15 Jürgen Schmidt <jo...@googlemail.com>:
> On 12/15/11 7:36 AM, Ross Gardler wrote:
>>
>> On 15 December 2011 04:33, Raphael Bircher<r....@gmx.ch> wrote:
>>>
>>> Am 15.12.11 00:26, schrieb Ross Gardler:
>>>
>>>> I'm really concerned about the tendency of the AOO project to keep
>>>> proposing and seriously considering new lists (well that is probably
>>>> over stating it, but I am genuinely concerned).
>>>>
>>>> Each time you create a list you separate the community from itself. It
>>>> should not happen until there is a proven need for it. Splitting the
>>>> community in this way leads to questions like "which list should this
>>>> be on" and subsequently "which list should I search to find the answer
>>>> to this".
>>>
>>>
>>> If you have only one list you endup with the question. "Wich E-Mail
>>> should I
>>> read and wich not". I for my person read a mailing list with about 30
>>> mails
>>> per dey.
>>
>>
>> I agree, but my point is that we are not anywhere near 30 mails per
>> day on, for example, I10n.
>
>
>
> REMINDER REMINDER REMINDER
>
> exactly i think less people make use of the tags we introduce months ago.
> See http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/mailing-lists.html
>
> We also agreed that the list of used tags should grow over time and should
> be extended to new discussion topics/areas.
>
> Before we create a new list we should first use the approach of clear tags
> to focus on specific discussions. With this approach it's very easy to
> control which thread is worth reading or where you are interested in.
>
> How about [l10n] for localization specific discussions.
>
> And [??] for everything where people would like to have a separate list over
> time if the traffic will grow too much.
>
That might be a good way to demonstrate the need for a new list.
1) Start as a subject tag in threads in ooo-dev
2) Do that for a month
3) If you can demonstrate an average of 10 posts per day with 10
active people on this topic, then make a proposal for a new list.
Note that this is not an unreasonable goal. For example,
ooo-marketing has 61 subscribers but we still get criticism that that
list was unnecessary. But the traffic level is low. Personally, I
think that is OK. There should be a way for someone to get involved
in the project without the time commitment needed to read 50 emails a
day, or at least sort/filter through 50 emails/day. I personally
don't think we need to have only One List to Rule Them All. But I
also want to avoid having 300 dead lists like OOo ended up with. So
let's not be afraid of making new lists, but let's be afraid of making
them too early or before there is demonstrated need. And I think a
month of 10-posts per day average with 10 participants is a
reasonable. Especially if we're starting out on a new topic, there
should be plenty of emails if there is truly interest.
-Rob
> Juergen
>
>
>>
>> The use of good subjects helps people decide what to read (especially
>> if tags are used as previously discussed).
>>
>> Yesterday I read "lets use the marketing list more" (or words to that
>> affect). Why was the list created if it was not going to be used?
>>
>> How did OOo get to hundreds of unused lists which we get accused of
>> not mailing about the move to AOO because people had fallen out of the
>> habit of reading them because nothing important ever happens there.
>>
>> Read my mail again, I didn't say *never* create new lists.
>>
>> Ross
>
>
Re: Too many lists
Posted by Albino Biasutti Neto <bi...@gmail.com>.
I understand now the reasons they do not create more lists. I see that
could be my future.
2011/12/15 Jürgen Schmidt <jo...@googlemail.com>
> On 12/15/11 7:36 AM, Ross Gardler wrote:
>
>> On 15 December 2011 04:33, Raphael Bircher<r....@gmx.ch> wrote:
>>
>>> Am 15.12.11 00:26, schrieb Ross Gardler:
>>>
>>> I'm really concerned about the tendency of the AOO project to keep
>>>> proposing and seriously considering new lists (well that is probably
>>>> over stating it, but I am genuinely concerned).
>>>>
>>>> Each time you create a list you separate the community from itself. It
>>>> should not happen until there is a proven need for it. Splitting the
>>>> community in this way leads to questions like "which list should this
>>>> be on" and subsequently "which list should I search to find the answer
>>>> to this".
>>>>
>>>
>>> If you have only one list you endup with the question. "Wich E-Mail
>>> should I
>>> read and wich not". I for my person read a mailing list with about 30
>>> mails
>>> per dey.
>>>
>>
>> I agree, but my point is that we are not anywhere near 30 mails per
>> day on, for example, I10n.
>>
>
>
> REMINDER REMINDER REMINDER
>
> exactly i think less people make use of the tags we introduce months ago.
> See http://incubator.apache.org/**openofficeorg/mailing-lists.**html<http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/mailing-lists.html>
>
> We also agreed that the list of used tags should grow over time and should
> be extended to new discussion topics/areas.
>
> Before we create a new list we should first use the approach of clear tags
> to focus on specific discussions. With this approach it's very easy to
> control which thread is worth reading or where you are interested in.
>
> How about [l10n] for localization specific discussions.
>
> And [??] for everything where people would like to have a separate list
> over time if the traffic will grow too much.
>
> Juergen
>
>
>
>> The use of good subjects helps people decide what to read (especially
>> if tags are used as previously discussed).
>>
>> Yesterday I read "lets use the marketing list more" (or words to that
>> affect). Why was the list created if it was not going to be used?
>>
>> How did OOo get to hundreds of unused lists which we get accused of
>> not mailing about the move to AOO because people had fallen out of the
>> habit of reading them because nothing important ever happens there.
>>
>> Read my mail again, I didn't say *never* create new lists.
>>
>> Ross
>>
>
>
Best,
--
Albino Biasutti Neto
www.tux-es.org
www.binoinformatica.com <http://blog.binoinformatica.com>
Re: Too many lists
Posted by Jürgen Schmidt <jo...@googlemail.com>.
On 12/15/11 7:36 AM, Ross Gardler wrote:
> On 15 December 2011 04:33, Raphael Bircher<r....@gmx.ch> wrote:
>> Am 15.12.11 00:26, schrieb Ross Gardler:
>>
>>> I'm really concerned about the tendency of the AOO project to keep
>>> proposing and seriously considering new lists (well that is probably
>>> over stating it, but I am genuinely concerned).
>>>
>>> Each time you create a list you separate the community from itself. It
>>> should not happen until there is a proven need for it. Splitting the
>>> community in this way leads to questions like "which list should this
>>> be on" and subsequently "which list should I search to find the answer
>>> to this".
>>
>> If you have only one list you endup with the question. "Wich E-Mail should I
>> read and wich not". I for my person read a mailing list with about 30 mails
>> per dey.
>
> I agree, but my point is that we are not anywhere near 30 mails per
> day on, for example, I10n.
REMINDER REMINDER REMINDER
exactly i think less people make use of the tags we introduce months
ago. See http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/mailing-lists.html
We also agreed that the list of used tags should grow over time and
should be extended to new discussion topics/areas.
Before we create a new list we should first use the approach of clear
tags to focus on specific discussions. With this approach it's very easy
to control which thread is worth reading or where you are interested in.
How about [l10n] for localization specific discussions.
And [??] for everything where people would like to have a separate list
over time if the traffic will grow too much.
Juergen
>
> The use of good subjects helps people decide what to read (especially
> if tags are used as previously discussed).
>
> Yesterday I read "lets use the marketing list more" (or words to that
> affect). Why was the list created if it was not going to be used?
>
> How did OOo get to hundreds of unused lists which we get accused of
> not mailing about the move to AOO because people had fallen out of the
> habit of reading them because nothing important ever happens there.
>
> Read my mail again, I didn't say *never* create new lists.
>
> Ross
Re: Too many lists
Posted by Ross Gardler <rg...@opendirective.com>.
On 15 December 2011 04:33, Raphael Bircher <r....@gmx.ch> wrote:
> Am 15.12.11 00:26, schrieb Ross Gardler:
>
>> I'm really concerned about the tendency of the AOO project to keep
>> proposing and seriously considering new lists (well that is probably
>> over stating it, but I am genuinely concerned).
>>
>> Each time you create a list you separate the community from itself. It
>> should not happen until there is a proven need for it. Splitting the
>> community in this way leads to questions like "which list should this
>> be on" and subsequently "which list should I search to find the answer
>> to this".
>
> If you have only one list you endup with the question. "Wich E-Mail should I
> read and wich not". I for my person read a mailing list with about 30 mails
> per dey.
I agree, but my point is that we are not anywhere near 30 mails per
day on, for example, I10n.
The use of good subjects helps people decide what to read (especially
if tags are used as previously discussed).
Yesterday I read "lets use the marketing list more" (or words to that
affect). Why was the list created if it was not going to be used?
How did OOo get to hundreds of unused lists which we get accused of
not mailing about the move to AOO because people had fallen out of the
habit of reading them because nothing important ever happens there.
Read my mail again, I didn't say *never* create new lists.
Ross
Re: Too many lists
Posted by Raphael Bircher <r....@gmx.ch>.
Am 15.12.11 00:26, schrieb Ross Gardler:
> I'm really concerned about the tendency of the AOO project to keep
> proposing and seriously considering new lists (well that is probably
> over stating it, but I am genuinely concerned).
>
> Each time you create a list you separate the community from itself. It
> should not happen until there is a proven need for it. Splitting the
> community in this way leads to questions like "which list should this
> be on" and subsequently "which list should I search to find the answer
> to this".
If you have only one list you endup with the question. "Wich E-Mail
should I read and wich not". I for my person read a mailing list with
about 30 mails per dey. If the traffic is heigher I overfly the list
only, and pick same Mails. So I miss the information. the ooo-dev@i.a.o
is one of the moast active ML at the whole Apche project. and in fact
OOo is not realy active yet. We have no translation, we have no document
writing, we have not realy a active QA now. Even the development just
started.
OOo has a load of specialized people, for exemple translaters, or
document writer. They don't care about development. If we keep on this
one big ML project strategy we will not be able to bring this people on
board. Reading a list with 50+ is time consuming, and not everyone is
willing to spend this time. For exemple: localisation is a part who has
not everytime work. If we stand with a one big ML concept, Localizer has
to read this list for maybe nonth for nothing. This people we will
probabily lose, and that's not good.
I for exemple are happy that we have a separate marketing list. Because
I'm simply not interested in marketing at all. So I'm not subscribed at
the list. But I don't miss that sameone make a Apache OpenOffice Logo
proposal. Why? sameone brings this topic to the OOoDev. That's how
communication works. Important things you take to the main List, the
rest you discouss in smaller groups.
We have a load of people who has not joined the project yet, because
they don't feel at home here. Apache is at the Moment a good home for
developers, but Apache has no concept how to deal with localization
people, Document writer and so. They feel not realy at home here,
because Apache provide not the space for this people.
Sure the ASF has a load of experionce an building developer Communities.
But I think the OOo project has much more experience in local community
building, Translation and Localization, and Documentation. Please give
us our space we need to grow up here.
>
> The most recent example is the I10n proposal. It will, probably,
> become necessary to create such a list in the future. But i10n affects
> everyone, not just those doing translations. The discussion about how
> to structure the I10n effort in AOO should happen here where everyone
> can easily find it.
>
> Clear email subjects will allow people to quickly skip over emails on
> topics they are not concerned about, but it ensures that nobody is
> forced off into a quiet corner where they are all alone.
>
> Ross
>
--
My private Homepage: http://www.raphaelbircher.ch/
Re: Too many lists
Posted by Ross Gardler <rg...@opendirective.com>.
On 15 December 2011 04:00, Albino Biasutti Neto <bi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> +1
>
> I see that the project AOO is getting quite mature, and capable of other
> lists.
That is the reverse of what I was saying. I am saying there is *not* a
need for loads of lists. Maturity has nothing to do with it, I'm
talking about community health.
I *don't* want to see unnecessary (at this time) lists (with the
emphasis on "at this time").
Ross
>
> 2011/12/14 Ross Gardler <rg...@opendirective.com>
>
>> I'm really concerned about the tendency of the AOO project to keep
>> proposing and seriously considering new lists (well that is probably
>> over stating it, but I am genuinely concerned).
>>
>> Each time you create a list you separate the community from itself. It
>> should not happen until there is a proven need for it. Splitting the
>> community in this way leads to questions like "which list should this
>> be on" and subsequently "which list should I search to find the answer
>> to this".
>>
>> The most recent example is the I10n proposal. It will, probably,
>> become necessary to create such a list in the future. But i10n affects
>> everyone, not just those doing translations. The discussion about how
>> to structure the I10n effort in AOO should happen here where everyone
>> can easily find it.
>>
>> Clear email subjects will allow people to quickly skip over emails on
>> topics they are not concerned about, but it ensures that nobody is
>> forced off into a quiet corner where they are all alone.
>>
>> Ross
>>
>> --
>> Ross Gardler (@rgardler)
>> Programme Leader (Open Development)
>> OpenDirective http://opendirective.com
>>
>
>
> Best,
> --
> Albino Biasutti Neto
> www.tux-es.org
> www.binoinformatica.com <http://blog.binoinformatica.com>
--
Ross Gardler (@rgardler)
Programme Leader (Open Development)
OpenDirective http://opendirective.com
Re: Too many lists
Posted by Albino Biasutti Neto <bi...@gmail.com>.
+1
I see that the project AOO is getting quite mature, and capable of other
lists.
2011/12/14 Ross Gardler <rg...@opendirective.com>
> I'm really concerned about the tendency of the AOO project to keep
> proposing and seriously considering new lists (well that is probably
> over stating it, but I am genuinely concerned).
>
> Each time you create a list you separate the community from itself. It
> should not happen until there is a proven need for it. Splitting the
> community in this way leads to questions like "which list should this
> be on" and subsequently "which list should I search to find the answer
> to this".
>
> The most recent example is the I10n proposal. It will, probably,
> become necessary to create such a list in the future. But i10n affects
> everyone, not just those doing translations. The discussion about how
> to structure the I10n effort in AOO should happen here where everyone
> can easily find it.
>
> Clear email subjects will allow people to quickly skip over emails on
> topics they are not concerned about, but it ensures that nobody is
> forced off into a quiet corner where they are all alone.
>
> Ross
>
> --
> Ross Gardler (@rgardler)
> Programme Leader (Open Development)
> OpenDirective http://opendirective.com
>
Best,
--
Albino Biasutti Neto
www.tux-es.org
www.binoinformatica.com <http://blog.binoinformatica.com>
Re: Too many lists
Posted by Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net>.
On Dec 27, 2011, at 7:07 PM, Wolf Halton wrote:
> Hi Y'all
>
> Would it be better or worse to have "working-group" level IRC channels?
> E.g. people translating documentation into Urdu will have specific
> questions that a smaller, more focused group would be good for. People
> working on developing the website code, etc..
> There are already too many mailing lists to keep track of. IMO. I think
> it would be helpful to have focused IRC channels for when one is actually
> working on a piece of this. I have been helped by such groups in the past,
> and felt as if my measly contributions were useful in that setting. I have
> been finding it very hard to get my teeth into something on this project,
> in its birthing pains, as have a few others, so I have just read as much as
> I could and kept my lip zipped.
As long as these are working groups. Just keep in mind that the list will need to be informed of substantive decisions.
So, excellent idea. Let's see if there are any objections.
I have avoided doing this myself, but I can see how a group would reduce the chatter on ooo-dev.
Reading the ooo-issues and ooo-commits MLs is how to watch what is really happening. (except for the MWiki and Forums.)
Regards,
Dave
>
> Wolf
>
> --
> This Apt Has Super Cow Powers - http://sourcefreedom.com
> Advancing Libraries Together - http://LYRASIS.org
Re: Too many lists
Posted by Wolf Halton <wo...@gmail.com>.
Hi Y'all
Would it be better or worse to have "working-group" level IRC channels?
E.g. people translating documentation into Urdu will have specific
questions that a smaller, more focused group would be good for. People
working on developing the website code, etc..
There are already too many mailing lists to keep track of. IMO. I think
it would be helpful to have focused IRC channels for when one is actually
working on a piece of this. I have been helped by such groups in the past,
and felt as if my measly contributions were useful in that setting. I have
been finding it very hard to get my teeth into something on this project,
in its birthing pains, as have a few others, so I have just read as much as
I could and kept my lip zipped.
Wolf
--
This Apt Has Super Cow Powers - http://sourcefreedom.com
Advancing Libraries Together - http://LYRASIS.org
Re: Too many lists
Posted by Andrea Pescetti <pe...@openoffice.org>.
On 15/12/2011 Shane Curcuru wrote:
> Suggestion: instead of creating two Italian lists, create only the
> users-italian@ (whatever name) one.
OK, and this is what we did.
> Then create the i10n@ list, and use that for the dev-italian@ work - or
> any other development work in different languages. That way, people
> working on code or translations in different languages all have one
> "home" for the time being. ...
> Just a suggestion... not sure if it works, but it's worth thinking about.
I thought a bit about this, but I don't think it will work. N-L
communities are interested in end-users discussions, generic support,
and a series of activities, like localization, QA, marketing, education.
I see more reasonable and more focused that we group those "activities"
by language (or by geography when it makes sense) and that we rely on
"liaison persons" that will be the contacts between localized lists and
this list. This way, for example, a translation deadline could be
communicated here and forwarded to a hypothetical Italian "activities"
list, and conversely a suggestion discussed on that list could be
reported here.
It is much more likely than, say, an Italian volunteer helps with both
localization and QA of the Italian version rather than an Italian
localization volunteer helps with the French localization; this is why I
would separate by language rather than by type of activity.
Regards,
Andrea.
Re: Too many lists
Posted by Shane Curcuru <as...@shanecurcuru.org>.
On 2011-12-14 6:26 PM, Ross Gardler wrote:
> I'm really concerned about the tendency of the AOO project to keep
> proposing and seriously considering new lists (well that is probably
> over stating it, but I am genuinely concerned).
I've tried to share this concern as well.
>
> Each time you create a list you separate the community from itself. It
> should not happen until there is a proven need for it. Splitting the
> community in this way leads to questions like "which list should this
> be on" and subsequently "which list should I search to find the answer
> to this".
>
> The most recent example is the I10n proposal. It will, probably,
> become necessary to create such a list in the future. But i10n affects
> everyone, not just those doing translations. The discussion about how
> to structure the I10n effort in AOO should happen here where everyone
> can easily find it.
Suggestion: instead of creating two Italian lists, create only the
users-italian@ (whatever name) one.
Then create the i10n@ list, and use that for the dev-italian@ work - or
any other development work in different languages. That way, people
working on code or translations in different languages all have one
"home" for the time being.
Yes, some Italian discussion will be moot for the other folks on the
list, but given that everyone on the list is focused on various kinds of
internationalization, they will be tolerant of different language
conversations.
Just a suggestion... not sure if it works, but it's worth thinking about.
- Shane
>
> Clear email subjects will allow people to quickly skip over emails on
> topics they are not concerned about, but it ensures that nobody is
> forced off into a quiet corner where they are all alone.
>
> Ross
>