You are viewing a plain text version of this content. The canonical link for it is here.
Posted to dev@cloudstack.apache.org by Chip Childers <ch...@sungard.com> on 2013/03/01 19:37:18 UTC
Re: Summary of why where and how development happens matters
On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 02:38:27PM -0800, Animesh Chaturvedi wrote:
> John, I agree we need to merge in logical chunks sooner rather than later that allows for reviews and feedback sooner.
>
> Chip I can take the first stab at putting this in a wiki but would require collaboration with you and Alex to get it crisp and clear
That would be quite nice of you Animesh!
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: John Burwell [mailto:jburwell@basho.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2013 2:18 PM
> > To: cloudstack-dev@incubator.apache.org
> > Subject: Re: Summary of why where and how development happens
> > matters
> >
> > All,
> >
> > I would also like to add to a thought to the specific example given by Alex. I
> > think we need to approach feature design and implementation in a manner
> > that does not produce 3 months of effort before it can merged into master.
> > Regardless of where work occurs, 3 months of work (and the associated
> > 1000s of lines of code) going unintegrated is a significant project risk.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > -John
> >
> > On Feb 28, 2013, at 1:30 AM, Prasanna Santhanam <ts...@apache.org> wrote:
> >
> > > On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 11:52:28AM +0530, David Nalley wrote:
> > >> On Feb 27, 2013 10:16 PM, "Prasanna Santhanam" <ts...@apache.org>
> > wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 12:21:28AM +0530, Chip Childers wrote:
> > >>>> The TL;DR version:
> > >>>>
> > >>>> The issue that we ran into with several features being developed
> > >>>> "outside the community" for 4.1 was a major deal, and it had
> > >>>> several implications. First, doing that effectively hurts our
> > >>>> community. The other issue is related to the legal right of the
> > >>>> project to accept the code developed elsewhere.
> > >>>>
> > >>>
> > >>> Ok - I read *all* of it and still have a lingering question:
> > >>>
> > >>> What happens to code/docs etc that is released by a commercial
> > >>> entity re-branding ACS with the ASF license before it is released as
> > >>> an official ACS release? Said code was developed per the community
> > >>> guidelines but just was released before the ACS code was released.
> > >>> Is that okay?
> > >>>
> > >>> --
> > >>> Prasanna.,
> > >>
> > >> That is okay.
> > >> We don't care what people do with ACS code. We care that code that
> > >> comes into ACS is developed here.
> > >
> > > Thanks David - everything looks good otherwise.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Prasanna.,
>
>
Re: Summary of why where and how development happens matters
Posted by Chip Childers <ch...@sungard.com>.
On Tue, Mar 5, 2013 at 10:34 AM, Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote:
> Community guidelines, if adopted by the majority, become self-sustaining.
> So they will enforce themselves.
+1 - I couldn't have answered better myself.
Re: Summary of why where and how development happens matters
Posted by Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org>.
Community guidelines, if adopted by the majority, become self-sustaining.
So they will enforce themselves.
On 5 March 2013 09:46, Sebastien Goasguen <ru...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On Mar 4, 2013, at 11:08 AM, Chip Childers <ch...@sungard.com>
> wrote:
>
> > On Mon, Mar 04, 2013 at 09:16:36AM -0500, Sebastien Goasguen wrote:
> >>
> >> On Mar 1, 2013, at 1:37 PM, Chip Childers <ch...@sungard.com>
> wrote:
> >>
> >>> On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 02:38:27PM -0800, Animesh Chaturvedi wrote:
> >>>> John, I agree we need to merge in logical chunks sooner rather than
> later that allows for reviews and feedback sooner.
> >>>>
> >>>> Chip I can take the first stab at putting this in a wiki but would
> require collaboration with you and Alex to get it crisp and clear
> >>>
> >>> That would be quite nice of you Animesh!
> >>
> >> I just read it all and there does not seem to be a real conclusion
> especially from David's concerns.
> >>
> >> How do we move forward and ensure that the entire community and
> committers understand how code is developed in the ASF ?
> >> Is this thread a mandatory reading for instance ?
> >>
> >> -Sebastien
> >
> > Part of the challenge is that this is a moving target... who exactly is
> > "in the community" at any point in time is different as time moves on.
> > So we're left with thinking about it in terms of (1) current community
> > members being educated, (2) ongoing education and processes, and (3)
> > documenting it for the purpose of reference as the community grows /
> evolves.
> >
> > The reason that we decided to push this thread over from private to dev,
> > was specifically to support (1) and (3). For (1), we now have a public
> > reference of the discussion, as well as the effects of it having been
> quite
> > visible (see all the IP clearance threads / work). For (2), this is the
> > responsibility of the community itself (and specifically a
> > responsibility of the (P)PMC to keep an eye on things). We do need to
> > continue to work on our processes though... As for (3), this thread
> > plus a wiki page discussing how and why (which Animesh said he'd work
> > on) seem to be the best option.
> >
> > Other than the points above, do you have any other thoughts about how to
> > move forward? Think I'm missing anything?
>
> I think it's fine, I just don't know how for (3) we will "enforce" people
> reading the wiki or the thread.
>
> >
> > -chip
>
>
--
NS
Re: Summary of why where and how development happens matters
Posted by Sebastien Goasguen <ru...@gmail.com>.
On Mar 4, 2013, at 11:08 AM, Chip Childers <ch...@sungard.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 04, 2013 at 09:16:36AM -0500, Sebastien Goasguen wrote:
>>
>> On Mar 1, 2013, at 1:37 PM, Chip Childers <ch...@sungard.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 02:38:27PM -0800, Animesh Chaturvedi wrote:
>>>> John, I agree we need to merge in logical chunks sooner rather than later that allows for reviews and feedback sooner.
>>>>
>>>> Chip I can take the first stab at putting this in a wiki but would require collaboration with you and Alex to get it crisp and clear
>>>
>>> That would be quite nice of you Animesh!
>>
>> I just read it all and there does not seem to be a real conclusion especially from David's concerns.
>>
>> How do we move forward and ensure that the entire community and committers understand how code is developed in the ASF ?
>> Is this thread a mandatory reading for instance ?
>>
>> -Sebastien
>
> Part of the challenge is that this is a moving target... who exactly is
> "in the community" at any point in time is different as time moves on.
> So we're left with thinking about it in terms of (1) current community
> members being educated, (2) ongoing education and processes, and (3)
> documenting it for the purpose of reference as the community grows / evolves.
>
> The reason that we decided to push this thread over from private to dev,
> was specifically to support (1) and (3). For (1), we now have a public
> reference of the discussion, as well as the effects of it having been quite
> visible (see all the IP clearance threads / work). For (2), this is the
> responsibility of the community itself (and specifically a
> responsibility of the (P)PMC to keep an eye on things). We do need to
> continue to work on our processes though... As for (3), this thread
> plus a wiki page discussing how and why (which Animesh said he'd work
> on) seem to be the best option.
>
> Other than the points above, do you have any other thoughts about how to
> move forward? Think I'm missing anything?
I think it's fine, I just don't know how for (3) we will "enforce" people reading the wiki or the thread.
>
> -chip
Re: Summary of why where and how development happens matters
Posted by Chip Childers <ch...@sungard.com>.
On Mon, Mar 04, 2013 at 09:16:36AM -0500, Sebastien Goasguen wrote:
>
> On Mar 1, 2013, at 1:37 PM, Chip Childers <ch...@sungard.com> wrote:
>
> > On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 02:38:27PM -0800, Animesh Chaturvedi wrote:
> >> John, I agree we need to merge in logical chunks sooner rather than later that allows for reviews and feedback sooner.
> >>
> >> Chip I can take the first stab at putting this in a wiki but would require collaboration with you and Alex to get it crisp and clear
> >
> > That would be quite nice of you Animesh!
>
> I just read it all and there does not seem to be a real conclusion especially from David's concerns.
>
> How do we move forward and ensure that the entire community and committers understand how code is developed in the ASF ?
> Is this thread a mandatory reading for instance ?
>
> -Sebastien
Part of the challenge is that this is a moving target... who exactly is
"in the community" at any point in time is different as time moves on.
So we're left with thinking about it in terms of (1) current community
members being educated, (2) ongoing education and processes, and (3)
documenting it for the purpose of reference as the community grows / evolves.
The reason that we decided to push this thread over from private to dev,
was specifically to support (1) and (3). For (1), we now have a public
reference of the discussion, as well as the effects of it having been quite
visible (see all the IP clearance threads / work). For (2), this is the
responsibility of the community itself (and specifically a
responsibility of the (P)PMC to keep an eye on things). We do need to
continue to work on our processes though... As for (3), this thread
plus a wiki page discussing how and why (which Animesh said he'd work
on) seem to be the best option.
Other than the points above, do you have any other thoughts about how to
move forward? Think I'm missing anything?
-chip
Re: Summary of why where and how development happens matters
Posted by Sebastien Goasguen <ru...@gmail.com>.
On Mar 1, 2013, at 1:37 PM, Chip Childers <ch...@sungard.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 02:38:27PM -0800, Animesh Chaturvedi wrote:
>> John, I agree we need to merge in logical chunks sooner rather than later that allows for reviews and feedback sooner.
>>
>> Chip I can take the first stab at putting this in a wiki but would require collaboration with you and Alex to get it crisp and clear
>
> That would be quite nice of you Animesh!
I just read it all and there does not seem to be a real conclusion especially from David's concerns.
How do we move forward and ensure that the entire community and committers understand how code is developed in the ASF ?
Is this thread a mandatory reading for instance ?
-Sebastien
>
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: John Burwell [mailto:jburwell@basho.com]
>>> Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2013 2:18 PM
>>> To: cloudstack-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>> Subject: Re: Summary of why where and how development happens
>>> matters
>>>
>>> All,
>>>
>>> I would also like to add to a thought to the specific example given by Alex. I
>>> think we need to approach feature design and implementation in a manner
>>> that does not produce 3 months of effort before it can merged into master.
>>> Regardless of where work occurs, 3 months of work (and the associated
>>> 1000s of lines of code) going unintegrated is a significant project risk.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> -John
>>>
>>> On Feb 28, 2013, at 1:30 AM, Prasanna Santhanam <ts...@apache.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 11:52:28AM +0530, David Nalley wrote:
>>>>> On Feb 27, 2013 10:16 PM, "Prasanna Santhanam" <ts...@apache.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 12:21:28AM +0530, Chip Childers wrote:
>>>>>>> The TL;DR version:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The issue that we ran into with several features being developed
>>>>>>> "outside the community" for 4.1 was a major deal, and it had
>>>>>>> several implications. First, doing that effectively hurts our
>>>>>>> community. The other issue is related to the legal right of the
>>>>>>> project to accept the code developed elsewhere.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ok - I read *all* of it and still have a lingering question:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What happens to code/docs etc that is released by a commercial
>>>>>> entity re-branding ACS with the ASF license before it is released as
>>>>>> an official ACS release? Said code was developed per the community
>>>>>> guidelines but just was released before the ACS code was released.
>>>>>> Is that okay?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Prasanna.,
>>>>>
>>>>> That is okay.
>>>>> We don't care what people do with ACS code. We care that code that
>>>>> comes into ACS is developed here.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks David - everything looks good otherwise.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Prasanna.,
>>
>>