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Posted to dev@commons.apache.org by Benedikt Ritter <br...@apache.org> on 2015/02/15 11:29:08 UTC
Re: [DISCUSS] Commons RDF to join the Apache Incubator
Hi all,
at first sorry for the delay. I've been on vacation the last 10 days with
no access to my emails.
2015-02-10 21:31 GMT+01:00 Marvin Humphrey <ma...@rectangular.com>:
> On Tue, Feb 10, 2015 at 7:21 AM, Stian Soiland-Reyes <st...@apache.org>
> wrote:
>
> > The natural path to Apache Commons Sandbox has been studied, but we
> > think that in this phase of the project, which focuses on the API
> > design and actively involves the developers of existing toolkits, it
> > is better to have a more focused community and infrastructure. Rather
> > than a new Top-Level Project, the goal is still to graduate as part of
> > Apache Commons, that is when API has achieve the required maturity and
> > the project goes into maintenance mode.
>
> If Commons is OK with this, I imagine this is a fine plan -- good enough
> for
> entering incubation.
>
Short answer: The Apache Commons community is fine with this.
Long answer: There has been some confusion (and misunderstanding?) about
the way the Apache Commons project works. The Commons RDF community wanted
to use either github or a separate mailing list for shaping out the initial
API. The first in our opinion doesn't work since Apache projects have to
use Apache infrastructure. The latter wasn't possible since we don't what
to create sub communities inside commons [1]. This is a lesson learned from
Jakarta (note that I've not been around by the time Jakarta shout down, so
I'm just writing down, what I've learned from others). This eventually led
to the suggestion to go though the incubator. [2]
We like to underline, that we have no experience with the RDF
specification. From a technical point of view we can help to develop the
proposed API (according to our design guide lines [3]). But we need the
people the the RDF space to review contributions from a semantic PoV. So
this should not end up like developing the RDF library at the incubator and
then hand it of for maintenance to the Commons community. I think all
people involved here have pointed out, that they are willing to work on the
project even after it's initial release. Note, that we have recently
granted write access to all ASF committers [4]. So if Commons RDF
eventually moves to Apache Commons, anybody from the Jena/Sesame/Clerezza
projects may join the development.
>
> I also think it would be OK for the project to decide it wants to become a
> TLP. Whether the project joins Commons or becomes its own TLP won't impact
> the number of people qualified to work on it. Some Apache TLPs are
> effectively in maintenance mode and have very low activity, but still have
> PMC
> members willing to answer user questions, make security releases and file
> "still here" quarterly reports. That seems like a legitimate aspiration
> for
> this project.
>
In the case of Commons RDF going TLP we would like to ask the project to
choose a different name to avoid confusion. But I think this has already
been discussed in this thread.
Regards,
Benedikt
[1] http://markmail.org/message/mnlh64qod7cuuj56
[2] http://markmail.org/message/wl6hpkb4nhsroro5
[3] http://commons.apache.org/releases/versioning.html
[4] http://markmail.org/message/ylmw7qzx23br4ver
>
> A potential Jena destination also seems as though it would have certain
> advantages, though my naive speculation is that it might be sub-optimal in
> terms of providing neutral territory for negotiating a common API for Jena
> and
> Sesame.
>
> In any case it seems likely that if the project achieves its design goal,
> there will be people willing to work on it as long as both Jena and Sesame
> remain viable. That makes it different from other potential "maintenance
> mode" TLPs which are in danger of stagnation because they cannot renew
> their
> communities.
>
> Is that take roughly accurate, Sergio et al?
> > === Mailing lists ===
> >
> > * commons-rdf-dev
> > * commons-rdf-commits
>
> Those sound like final mailing lists rather than Incubator ones. I might
> have
> expected these instead:
>
> dev@commons-rdf.incubator.apache.org
> commits@commons-rdf.incubator.apache.org
>
> Do you expect to keep separate mailing lists after graduation, or will
> traffic
> be shunted onto existing Commons mailing list like dev@commons.apache.org
> and
> commits@commons.apache.org?
>
> > * Sergio Fernández (wikier dot apache dot org)
> > * Andy Seaborne (andy dot apache dot org)
> > * Peter Ansell (ansell dot apache dot org)
> > * Stian Soiland-Reyes (stain at apache dot org)
> > * Reto Gmür (reto at apache dot org)
>
> Lots of Apache experience in this group. Four are PMC members of at least
> one
> Apache project. Andy and Reto are ASF Members. Andy and Sergio are both
> IPMC
> members. Stian is a core contributor of the Taverna podling.
>
> You probably haven't been getting much feedback because there's a lot
> going on
> in the Incubator right now and everybody figures that with a group like
> that
> you're in good shape. :)
>
> === Champion ===
>
> * TBD
>
> The Champion's main work is to help formulate the proposal. That work is
> essentially done -- so it doesn't matter too much who takes that role, now.
> Are Andy and Reto opting out out as a gesture of openness to Sesame?
>
> > === Nominated Mentors ===
> >
> > * Benedikt Ritter (britter at apache dot org)
> > * TBD
>
> Benedikt is a member of the Commons PMC, but he's not a member of the IPMC
> nor
> an Apache Member -- so although Commons input is important, unfortunately
> it's
> not a valid nomination.
>
> I'd nudge newly elected IPMC member Rob Vesse, but maybe the roster is
> already
> Jena-heavy?
>
> Marvin Humphrey
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>
--
http://people.apache.org/~britter/
http://www.systemoutprintln.de/
http://twitter.com/BenediktRitter
http://github.com/britter
Re: [DISCUSS] Commons RDF to join the Apache Incubator
Posted by Gary Gregory <ga...@gmail.com>.
On Sun, Feb 15, 2015 at 2:29 AM, Benedikt Ritter <br...@apache.org> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> at first sorry for the delay. I've been on vacation the last 10 days with
> no access to my emails.
>
Same for me.
Gary
>
> 2015-02-10 21:31 GMT+01:00 Marvin Humphrey <ma...@rectangular.com>:
>
> > On Tue, Feb 10, 2015 at 7:21 AM, Stian Soiland-Reyes <st...@apache.org>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > The natural path to Apache Commons Sandbox has been studied, but we
> > > think that in this phase of the project, which focuses on the API
> > > design and actively involves the developers of existing toolkits, it
> > > is better to have a more focused community and infrastructure. Rather
> > > than a new Top-Level Project, the goal is still to graduate as part of
> > > Apache Commons, that is when API has achieve the required maturity and
> > > the project goes into maintenance mode.
> >
> > If Commons is OK with this, I imagine this is a fine plan -- good enough
> > for
> > entering incubation.
> >
>
> Short answer: The Apache Commons community is fine with this.
>
> Long answer: There has been some confusion (and misunderstanding?) about
> the way the Apache Commons project works. The Commons RDF community wanted
> to use either github or a separate mailing list for shaping out the initial
> API. The first in our opinion doesn't work since Apache projects have to
> use Apache infrastructure. The latter wasn't possible since we don't what
> to create sub communities inside commons [1]. This is a lesson learned from
> Jakarta (note that I've not been around by the time Jakarta shout down, so
> I'm just writing down, what I've learned from others). This eventually led
> to the suggestion to go though the incubator. [2]
>
> We like to underline, that we have no experience with the RDF
> specification. From a technical point of view we can help to develop the
> proposed API (according to our design guide lines [3]). But we need the
> people the the RDF space to review contributions from a semantic PoV. So
> this should not end up like developing the RDF library at the incubator and
> then hand it of for maintenance to the Commons community. I think all
> people involved here have pointed out, that they are willing to work on the
> project even after it's initial release. Note, that we have recently
> granted write access to all ASF committers [4]. So if Commons RDF
> eventually moves to Apache Commons, anybody from the Jena/Sesame/Clerezza
> projects may join the development.
>
>
> >
> > I also think it would be OK for the project to decide it wants to become
> a
> > TLP. Whether the project joins Commons or becomes its own TLP won't
> impact
> > the number of people qualified to work on it. Some Apache TLPs are
> > effectively in maintenance mode and have very low activity, but still
> have
> > PMC
> > members willing to answer user questions, make security releases and file
> > "still here" quarterly reports. That seems like a legitimate aspiration
> > for
> > this project.
> >
>
> In the case of Commons RDF going TLP we would like to ask the project to
> choose a different name to avoid confusion. But I think this has already
> been discussed in this thread.
>
> Regards,
> Benedikt
>
> [1] http://markmail.org/message/mnlh64qod7cuuj56
> [2] http://markmail.org/message/wl6hpkb4nhsroro5
> [3] http://commons.apache.org/releases/versioning.html
> [4] http://markmail.org/message/ylmw7qzx23br4ver
>
>
> >
> > A potential Jena destination also seems as though it would have certain
> > advantages, though my naive speculation is that it might be sub-optimal
> in
> > terms of providing neutral territory for negotiating a common API for
> Jena
> > and
> > Sesame.
> >
> > In any case it seems likely that if the project achieves its design goal,
> > there will be people willing to work on it as long as both Jena and
> Sesame
> > remain viable. That makes it different from other potential "maintenance
> > mode" TLPs which are in danger of stagnation because they cannot renew
> > their
> > communities.
> >
> > Is that take roughly accurate, Sergio et al?
>
>
> > > === Mailing lists ===
> > >
> > > * commons-rdf-dev
> > > * commons-rdf-commits
> >
> > Those sound like final mailing lists rather than Incubator ones. I might
> > have
> > expected these instead:
> >
> > dev@commons-rdf.incubator.apache.org
> > commits@commons-rdf.incubator.apache.org
> >
> > Do you expect to keep separate mailing lists after graduation, or will
> > traffic
> > be shunted onto existing Commons mailing list like
> dev@commons.apache.org
> > and
> > commits@commons.apache.org?
> >
> > > * Sergio Fernández (wikier dot apache dot org)
> > > * Andy Seaborne (andy dot apache dot org)
> > > * Peter Ansell (ansell dot apache dot org)
> > > * Stian Soiland-Reyes (stain at apache dot org)
> > > * Reto Gmür (reto at apache dot org)
> >
> > Lots of Apache experience in this group. Four are PMC members of at
> least
> > one
> > Apache project. Andy and Reto are ASF Members. Andy and Sergio are both
> > IPMC
> > members. Stian is a core contributor of the Taverna podling.
> >
> > You probably haven't been getting much feedback because there's a lot
> > going on
> > in the Incubator right now and everybody figures that with a group like
> > that
> > you're in good shape. :)
> >
> > === Champion ===
> >
> > * TBD
> >
> > The Champion's main work is to help formulate the proposal. That work is
> > essentially done -- so it doesn't matter too much who takes that role,
> now.
> > Are Andy and Reto opting out out as a gesture of openness to Sesame?
> >
> > > === Nominated Mentors ===
> > >
> > > * Benedikt Ritter (britter at apache dot org)
> > > * TBD
> >
> > Benedikt is a member of the Commons PMC, but he's not a member of the
> IPMC
> > nor
> > an Apache Member -- so although Commons input is important, unfortunately
> > it's
> > not a valid nomination.
> >
> > I'd nudge newly elected IPMC member Rob Vesse, but maybe the roster is
> > already
> > Jena-heavy?
> >
> > Marvin Humphrey
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> http://people.apache.org/~britter/
> http://www.systemoutprintln.de/
> http://twitter.com/BenediktRitter
> http://github.com/britter
>
--
E-Mail: garydgregory@gmail.com | ggregory@apache.org
Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition
<http://www.manning.com/bauer3/>
JUnit in Action, Second Edition <http://www.manning.com/tahchiev/>
Spring Batch in Action <http://www.manning.com/templier/>
Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com
Home: http://garygregory.com/
Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory
Re: [DISCUSS] Commons RDF to join the Apache Incubator
Posted by Gary Gregory <ga...@gmail.com>.
On Sun, Feb 15, 2015 at 2:29 AM, Benedikt Ritter <br...@apache.org> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> at first sorry for the delay. I've been on vacation the last 10 days with
> no access to my emails.
>
Same for me.
Gary
>
> 2015-02-10 21:31 GMT+01:00 Marvin Humphrey <ma...@rectangular.com>:
>
> > On Tue, Feb 10, 2015 at 7:21 AM, Stian Soiland-Reyes <st...@apache.org>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > The natural path to Apache Commons Sandbox has been studied, but we
> > > think that in this phase of the project, which focuses on the API
> > > design and actively involves the developers of existing toolkits, it
> > > is better to have a more focused community and infrastructure. Rather
> > > than a new Top-Level Project, the goal is still to graduate as part of
> > > Apache Commons, that is when API has achieve the required maturity and
> > > the project goes into maintenance mode.
> >
> > If Commons is OK with this, I imagine this is a fine plan -- good enough
> > for
> > entering incubation.
> >
>
> Short answer: The Apache Commons community is fine with this.
>
> Long answer: There has been some confusion (and misunderstanding?) about
> the way the Apache Commons project works. The Commons RDF community wanted
> to use either github or a separate mailing list for shaping out the initial
> API. The first in our opinion doesn't work since Apache projects have to
> use Apache infrastructure. The latter wasn't possible since we don't what
> to create sub communities inside commons [1]. This is a lesson learned from
> Jakarta (note that I've not been around by the time Jakarta shout down, so
> I'm just writing down, what I've learned from others). This eventually led
> to the suggestion to go though the incubator. [2]
>
> We like to underline, that we have no experience with the RDF
> specification. From a technical point of view we can help to develop the
> proposed API (according to our design guide lines [3]). But we need the
> people the the RDF space to review contributions from a semantic PoV. So
> this should not end up like developing the RDF library at the incubator and
> then hand it of for maintenance to the Commons community. I think all
> people involved here have pointed out, that they are willing to work on the
> project even after it's initial release. Note, that we have recently
> granted write access to all ASF committers [4]. So if Commons RDF
> eventually moves to Apache Commons, anybody from the Jena/Sesame/Clerezza
> projects may join the development.
>
>
> >
> > I also think it would be OK for the project to decide it wants to become
> a
> > TLP. Whether the project joins Commons or becomes its own TLP won't
> impact
> > the number of people qualified to work on it. Some Apache TLPs are
> > effectively in maintenance mode and have very low activity, but still
> have
> > PMC
> > members willing to answer user questions, make security releases and file
> > "still here" quarterly reports. That seems like a legitimate aspiration
> > for
> > this project.
> >
>
> In the case of Commons RDF going TLP we would like to ask the project to
> choose a different name to avoid confusion. But I think this has already
> been discussed in this thread.
>
> Regards,
> Benedikt
>
> [1] http://markmail.org/message/mnlh64qod7cuuj56
> [2] http://markmail.org/message/wl6hpkb4nhsroro5
> [3] http://commons.apache.org/releases/versioning.html
> [4] http://markmail.org/message/ylmw7qzx23br4ver
>
>
> >
> > A potential Jena destination also seems as though it would have certain
> > advantages, though my naive speculation is that it might be sub-optimal
> in
> > terms of providing neutral territory for negotiating a common API for
> Jena
> > and
> > Sesame.
> >
> > In any case it seems likely that if the project achieves its design goal,
> > there will be people willing to work on it as long as both Jena and
> Sesame
> > remain viable. That makes it different from other potential "maintenance
> > mode" TLPs which are in danger of stagnation because they cannot renew
> > their
> > communities.
> >
> > Is that take roughly accurate, Sergio et al?
>
>
> > > === Mailing lists ===
> > >
> > > * commons-rdf-dev
> > > * commons-rdf-commits
> >
> > Those sound like final mailing lists rather than Incubator ones. I might
> > have
> > expected these instead:
> >
> > dev@commons-rdf.incubator.apache.org
> > commits@commons-rdf.incubator.apache.org
> >
> > Do you expect to keep separate mailing lists after graduation, or will
> > traffic
> > be shunted onto existing Commons mailing list like
> dev@commons.apache.org
> > and
> > commits@commons.apache.org?
> >
> > > * Sergio Fernández (wikier dot apache dot org)
> > > * Andy Seaborne (andy dot apache dot org)
> > > * Peter Ansell (ansell dot apache dot org)
> > > * Stian Soiland-Reyes (stain at apache dot org)
> > > * Reto Gmür (reto at apache dot org)
> >
> > Lots of Apache experience in this group. Four are PMC members of at
> least
> > one
> > Apache project. Andy and Reto are ASF Members. Andy and Sergio are both
> > IPMC
> > members. Stian is a core contributor of the Taverna podling.
> >
> > You probably haven't been getting much feedback because there's a lot
> > going on
> > in the Incubator right now and everybody figures that with a group like
> > that
> > you're in good shape. :)
> >
> > === Champion ===
> >
> > * TBD
> >
> > The Champion's main work is to help formulate the proposal. That work is
> > essentially done -- so it doesn't matter too much who takes that role,
> now.
> > Are Andy and Reto opting out out as a gesture of openness to Sesame?
> >
> > > === Nominated Mentors ===
> > >
> > > * Benedikt Ritter (britter at apache dot org)
> > > * TBD
> >
> > Benedikt is a member of the Commons PMC, but he's not a member of the
> IPMC
> > nor
> > an Apache Member -- so although Commons input is important, unfortunately
> > it's
> > not a valid nomination.
> >
> > I'd nudge newly elected IPMC member Rob Vesse, but maybe the roster is
> > already
> > Jena-heavy?
> >
> > Marvin Humphrey
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> http://people.apache.org/~britter/
> http://www.systemoutprintln.de/
> http://twitter.com/BenediktRitter
> http://github.com/britter
>
--
E-Mail: garydgregory@gmail.com | ggregory@apache.org
Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition
<http://www.manning.com/bauer3/>
JUnit in Action, Second Edition <http://www.manning.com/tahchiev/>
Spring Batch in Action <http://www.manning.com/templier/>
Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com
Home: http://garygregory.com/
Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory