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Posted to dev@tapestry.apache.org by Richard Lewis-Shell <rl...@mac.com> on 2005/06/06 05:44:33 UTC
Adding annotation support to Tapestry 4
Hi,
I think we should add annotation support to Tapestry 4. The initial
hard work has already been done by Joni
(http://paloalto.laughingpanda.com/mediawiki/index.php/Tapestry_Annotations),
so this would mostly be a matter of merging his work (which has been
deliberately compatibly licensed BTW). The benefit seems clear - and we
can claim support for one of Java 5's most interesting features (and by
extension, thus Java 5 itself). The downside would be that we would
have to use Java 5 to build Tapestry. Is that going to be a problem?
Because this is a completely new feature, I do not see a good reason to
wait. Does anyone else?
There is another reason I am interested in seeing this incorporated into
Tapestry sooner rather than later - one of encouraging our user
community. It seems to me that we are a strange open-source project -
we have a very good/strong user community, but not such a strong
developer community. We are currently very Howard-centric - there is a
lot of looking to Howard to guide us/tell-us-how-it-will-be (eg.
recently it was suggested that template defaults were "in Howard's
hands", and this attitude permeates on the -user list). While Howard
has done an incredible job of getting us this far, there is only so much
one person can do, even if that person is Howard!!! I think we run the
very real risk of losing relevance to other popular projects in the same
space (JSF, struts etc) with more active developer communities. We are
the only ones who can change that, and we do it (IMO) by encouraging
users to contribute more to the project, and the obvious way to
encourage user contribution is to incorporate those contributions that
fit well with Tapestry into the framework itself.
To bring this back to the here and now, annotation support is such a
user-contribution that I think fits well with Tapestry.
Richard
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Re: Adding annotation support to Tapestry 4
Posted by Howard Lewis Ship <hl...@gmail.com>.
Because that way, the bulk of the Tapestry code can continue to be
compiled against JDK 1.3.
On 6/6/05, Henri Dupre <he...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I think we should add annotation support to Tapestry 4. The initial
> > hard work has already been done by Joni
> > (http://paloalto.laughingpanda.com/mediawiki/index.php/Tapestry_Annotations),
> > so this would mostly be a matter of merging his work (which has been
> > deliberately compatibly licensed BTW).
>
> Why should it be merged in the tapestry project if it works well as an
> extension?
>
> Henri.
>
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>
>
--
Howard M. Lewis Ship
Independent J2EE / Open-Source Java Consultant
Creator, Jakarta Tapestry
Creator, Jakarta HiveMind
Professional Tapestry training, mentoring, support
and project work. http://howardlewisship.com
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Re: Adding annotation support to Tapestry 4
Posted by Henri Dupre <he...@gmail.com>.
> I think we should add annotation support to Tapestry 4. The initial
> hard work has already been done by Joni
> (http://paloalto.laughingpanda.com/mediawiki/index.php/Tapestry_Annotations),
> so this would mostly be a matter of merging his work (which has been
> deliberately compatibly licensed BTW).
Why should it be merged in the tapestry project if it works well as an
extension?
Henri.
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Re: Adding annotation support to Tapestry 4
Posted by Howard Lewis Ship <hl...@gmail.com>.
I've been saying that it should be possible to add annotation support
to Tapestry via an add-on library that contributes to the
EnhancementWorkers configuration point. Possibly, some refactoring of
the existing code would make it easier to re-use for this purpose.
On 6/6/05, Ron Piterman <mp...@vollbio.de> wrote:
> I Think the idee is great.
> However, I ask myself if the Tapestry way of versioning and features is
> the "right one" - there are no features in developement. A version (I am
> talking about 4.0) is a kind of bulk, which is then very big, and not
> very light to digest. On the other hand, features just come in in this
> bulk. Why not add feature developement lines into the versioning, so you
> can add the annotations, which is a great thing, as experimental, and
> let it grow in interaction with the comunity.
>
> This will also lighten the howard centric manner, because the annotation
> (and maybe other experimantals which will come along) will enable users
> to influence how it will turn mature, and not just run after it...
>
> This may help to avoid situations like the one with the default binding,
> which seems to bring alot of comfusion, because it looks good on paper,
> but did not "grow-in" to test real useability...
>
> Cheers,
> Ron
>
>
>
> ציטוט Richard Lewis-Shell:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I think we should add annotation support to Tapestry 4. The initial
> > hard work has already been done by Joni
> > (http://paloalto.laughingpanda.com/mediawiki/index.php/Tapestry_Annotations),
> > so this would mostly be a matter of merging his work (which has been
> > deliberately compatibly licensed BTW). The benefit seems clear - and we
> > can claim support for one of Java 5's most interesting features (and by
> > extension, thus Java 5 itself). The downside would be that we would
> > have to use Java 5 to build Tapestry. Is that going to be a problem?
> >
> > Because this is a completely new feature, I do not see a good reason to
> > wait. Does anyone else?
> >
> > There is another reason I am interested in seeing this incorporated into
> > Tapestry sooner rather than later - one of encouraging our user
> > community. It seems to me that we are a strange open-source project -
> > we have a very good/strong user community, but not such a strong
> > developer community. We are currently very Howard-centric - there is a
> > lot of looking to Howard to guide us/tell-us-how-it-will-be (eg.
> > recently it was suggested that template defaults were "in Howard's
> > hands", and this attitude permeates on the -user list). While Howard
> > has done an incredible job of getting us this far, there is only so much
> > one person can do, even if that person is Howard!!! I think we run the
> > very real risk of losing relevance to other popular projects in the same
> > space (JSF, struts etc) with more active developer communities. We are
> > the only ones who can change that, and we do it (IMO) by encouraging
> > users to contribute more to the project, and the obvious way to
> > encourage user contribution is to incorporate those contributions that
> > fit well with Tapestry into the framework itself.
> >
> > To bring this back to the here and now, annotation support is such a
> > user-contribution that I think fits well with Tapestry.
> >
> > Richard
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: tapestry-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: tapestry-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
>
>
--
Howard M. Lewis Ship
Independent J2EE / Open-Source Java Consultant
Creator, Jakarta Tapestry
Creator, Jakarta HiveMind
Professional Tapestry training, mentoring, support
and project work. http://howardlewisship.com
Re: Adding annotation support to Tapestry 4
Posted by Ron Piterman <mp...@vollbio.de>.
I Think the idee is great.
However, I ask myself if the Tapestry way of versioning and features is
the "right one" - there are no features in developement. A version (I am
talking about 4.0) is a kind of bulk, which is then very big, and not
very light to digest. On the other hand, features just come in in this
bulk. Why not add feature developement lines into the versioning, so you
can add the annotations, which is a great thing, as experimental, and
let it grow in interaction with the comunity.
This will also lighten the howard centric manner, because the annotation
(and maybe other experimantals which will come along) will enable users
to influence how it will turn mature, and not just run after it...
This may help to avoid situations like the one with the default binding,
which seems to bring alot of comfusion, because it looks good on paper,
but did not "grow-in" to test real useability...
Cheers,
Ron
ציטוט Richard Lewis-Shell:
> Hi,
>
> I think we should add annotation support to Tapestry 4. The initial
> hard work has already been done by Joni
> (http://paloalto.laughingpanda.com/mediawiki/index.php/Tapestry_Annotations),
> so this would mostly be a matter of merging his work (which has been
> deliberately compatibly licensed BTW). The benefit seems clear - and we
> can claim support for one of Java 5's most interesting features (and by
> extension, thus Java 5 itself). The downside would be that we would
> have to use Java 5 to build Tapestry. Is that going to be a problem?
>
> Because this is a completely new feature, I do not see a good reason to
> wait. Does anyone else?
>
> There is another reason I am interested in seeing this incorporated into
> Tapestry sooner rather than later - one of encouraging our user
> community. It seems to me that we are a strange open-source project -
> we have a very good/strong user community, but not such a strong
> developer community. We are currently very Howard-centric - there is a
> lot of looking to Howard to guide us/tell-us-how-it-will-be (eg.
> recently it was suggested that template defaults were "in Howard's
> hands", and this attitude permeates on the -user list). While Howard
> has done an incredible job of getting us this far, there is only so much
> one person can do, even if that person is Howard!!! I think we run the
> very real risk of losing relevance to other popular projects in the same
> space (JSF, struts etc) with more active developer communities. We are
> the only ones who can change that, and we do it (IMO) by encouraging
> users to contribute more to the project, and the obvious way to
> encourage user contribution is to incorporate those contributions that
> fit well with Tapestry into the framework itself.
>
> To bring this back to the here and now, annotation support is such a
> user-contribution that I think fits well with Tapestry.
>
> Richard
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Re: Adding annotation support to Tapestry 4
Posted by Ron Piterman <mp...@vollbio.de>.
Its really much fun, you should try it. It takes 30 min. to learn and
saves much time :)
ציטוט Geoff Longman:
> Frankly, I have not had the need or requirement to even install 1.5
> yet so I don't really care one way or the other as long as the
> binaries work out of the box in 1.4.2.
>
> I will say that Spindle support for 4.0 is taking a lot longer than
> expected and I don't forsee supporting the new Annotation stuff any
> time soon.
>
> I would like to know when the feature set for 4.0 will be frozen. Beta?
>
> Geoff
>
>
> On 6/8/05, Richard Lewis-Shell <rl...@mac.com> wrote:
>
>>Oh wonderful! You seem to keep beating me to the things I was planning
>>on doing (deprecatable components, annotations). Perhaps if I don't
>>tell you what I am next thinking of, I might get to it first :-)
>>
>>Howard Lewis Ship wrote:
>>
>>>I'm working on adding annotation support even as we speak. I felt
>>>inspiried this afternoon. It does mean compiling on JDK 1.5 to target
>>>JDK 1.1, and it also means we can't use commons-lang anymore (it has a
>>>package name thats illegal), so goodbye EnumPropertySelectionModel.
>>>
>>>On 6/8/05, Richard Lewis-Shell <rlewisshell@mac.com > wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>I was hoping to get a little more feedback from the others here before
>>>>deciding whether this needed to be put to a vote...
>>>>
>>>>The main issue to me is whether requiring JDK 5 to BUILD Tapestry is
>>>>going to be workable? If there's going to be problems there, we might
>>>>be able to look at some sort of conditional compilation for the annotations.
>>>>
>>>>Richard
>>>>
>>>>Ron Piterman wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>So why not vote on adding it as an (unmature) extention to the tapestry
>>>>>project?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>ציטוט Richard Lewis-Shell:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Hi,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I think we should add annotation support to Tapestry 4. The initial
>>>>>>hard work has already been done by Joni
>>>>>>(http://paloalto.laughingpanda.com/mediawiki/index.php/Tapestry_Annotations ),
>>>>>>so this would mostly be a matter of merging his work (which has been
>>>>>>deliberately compatibly licensed BTW). The benefit seems clear - and
>>>>>>we can claim support for one of Java 5's most interesting features
>>>>>>(and by extension, thus Java 5 itself). The downside would be that we
>>>>>>would have to use Java 5 to build Tapestry. Is that going to be a
>>>>>>problem?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Because this is a completely new feature, I do not see a good reason
>>>>>>to wait. Does anyone else?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>There is another reason I am interested in seeing this incorporated
>>>>>>into Tapestry sooner rather than later - one of encouraging our user
>>>>>>community. It seems to me that we are a strange open-source project -
>>>>>>we have a very good/strong user community, but not such a strong
>>>>>>developer community. We are currently very Howard-centric - there is
>>>>>>a lot of looking to Howard to guide us/tell-us-how-it-will-be (eg.
>>>>>>recently it was suggested that template defaults were "in Howard's
>>>>>>hands", and this attitude permeates on the -user list). While Howard
>>>>>>has done an incredible job of getting us this far, there is only so
>>>>>>much one person can do, even if that person is Howard!!! I think we
>>>>>>run the very real risk of losing relevance to other popular projects
>>>>>>in the same space (JSF, struts etc) with more active developer
>>>>>>communities. We are the only ones who can change that, and we do it
>>>>>>(IMO) by encouraging users to contribute more to the project, and the
>>>>>>obvious way to encourage user contribution is to incorporate those
>>>>>>contributions that fit well with Tapestry into the framework itself.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>To bring this back to the here and now, annotation support is such a
>>>>>>user-contribution that I think fits well with Tapestry.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Richard
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>To unsubscribe, e-mail: tapestry-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
>>>>>For additional commands, e-mail: tapestry-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>To unsubscribe, e-mail: tapestry-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
>>>>For additional commands, e-mail: tapestry-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>For additional commands, e-mail: tapestry-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
>>
>>
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Re: Adding annotation support to Tapestry 4
Posted by Geoff Longman <gl...@gmail.com>.
Frankly, I have not had the need or requirement to even install 1.5
yet so I don't really care one way or the other as long as the
binaries work out of the box in 1.4.2.
I will say that Spindle support for 4.0 is taking a lot longer than
expected and I don't forsee supporting the new Annotation stuff any
time soon.
I would like to know when the feature set for 4.0 will be frozen. Beta?
Geoff
On 6/8/05, Richard Lewis-Shell <rl...@mac.com> wrote:
> Oh wonderful! You seem to keep beating me to the things I was planning
> on doing (deprecatable components, annotations). Perhaps if I don't
> tell you what I am next thinking of, I might get to it first :-)
>
> Howard Lewis Ship wrote:
> > I'm working on adding annotation support even as we speak. I felt
> > inspiried this afternoon. It does mean compiling on JDK 1.5 to target
> > JDK 1.1, and it also means we can't use commons-lang anymore (it has a
> > package name thats illegal), so goodbye EnumPropertySelectionModel.
> >
> > On 6/8/05, Richard Lewis-Shell <rlewisshell@mac.com > wrote:
> >
> >>I was hoping to get a little more feedback from the others here before
> >>deciding whether this needed to be put to a vote...
> >>
> >>The main issue to me is whether requiring JDK 5 to BUILD Tapestry is
> >>going to be workable? If there's going to be problems there, we might
> >>be able to look at some sort of conditional compilation for the annotations.
> >>
> >>Richard
> >>
> >>Ron Piterman wrote:
> >>
> >>>So why not vote on adding it as an (unmature) extention to the tapestry
> >>>project?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>ציטוט Richard Lewis-Shell:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>Hi,
> >>>>
> >>>>I think we should add annotation support to Tapestry 4. The initial
> >>>>hard work has already been done by Joni
> >>>>(http://paloalto.laughingpanda.com/mediawiki/index.php/Tapestry_Annotations ),
> >>>>so this would mostly be a matter of merging his work (which has been
> >>>>deliberately compatibly licensed BTW). The benefit seems clear - and
> >>>>we can claim support for one of Java 5's most interesting features
> >>>>(and by extension, thus Java 5 itself). The downside would be that we
> >>>>would have to use Java 5 to build Tapestry. Is that going to be a
> >>>>problem?
> >>>>
> >>>>Because this is a completely new feature, I do not see a good reason
> >>>>to wait. Does anyone else?
> >>>>
> >>>>There is another reason I am interested in seeing this incorporated
> >>>>into Tapestry sooner rather than later - one of encouraging our user
> >>>>community. It seems to me that we are a strange open-source project -
> >>>>we have a very good/strong user community, but not such a strong
> >>>>developer community. We are currently very Howard-centric - there is
> >>>>a lot of looking to Howard to guide us/tell-us-how-it-will-be (eg.
> >>>>recently it was suggested that template defaults were "in Howard's
> >>>>hands", and this attitude permeates on the -user list). While Howard
> >>>>has done an incredible job of getting us this far, there is only so
> >>>>much one person can do, even if that person is Howard!!! I think we
> >>>>run the very real risk of losing relevance to other popular projects
> >>>>in the same space (JSF, struts etc) with more active developer
> >>>>communities. We are the only ones who can change that, and we do it
> >>>>(IMO) by encouraging users to contribute more to the project, and the
> >>>>obvious way to encourage user contribution is to incorporate those
> >>>>contributions that fit well with Tapestry into the framework itself.
> >>>>
> >>>>To bring this back to the here and now, annotation support is such a
> >>>>user-contribution that I think fits well with Tapestry.
> >>>>
> >>>>Richard
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>To unsubscribe, e-mail: tapestry-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> >>>For additional commands, e-mail: tapestry-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>To unsubscribe, e-mail: tapestry-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> >>For additional commands, e-mail: tapestry-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> For additional commands, e-mail: tapestry-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
>
>
Re: Adding annotation support to Tapestry 4
Posted by Richard Lewis-Shell <rl...@mac.com>.
Oh wonderful! You seem to keep beating me to the things I was planning
on doing (deprecatable components, annotations). Perhaps if I don't
tell you what I am next thinking of, I might get to it first :-)
Howard Lewis Ship wrote:
> I'm working on adding annotation support even as we speak. I felt
> inspiried this afternoon. It does mean compiling on JDK 1.5 to target
> JDK 1.1, and it also means we can't use commons-lang anymore (it has a
> package name thats illegal), so goodbye EnumPropertySelectionModel.
>
> On 6/8/05, Richard Lewis-Shell <rl...@mac.com> wrote:
>
>>I was hoping to get a little more feedback from the others here before
>>deciding whether this needed to be put to a vote...
>>
>>The main issue to me is whether requiring JDK 5 to BUILD Tapestry is
>>going to be workable? If there's going to be problems there, we might
>>be able to look at some sort of conditional compilation for the annotations.
>>
>>Richard
>>
>>Ron Piterman wrote:
>>
>>>So why not vote on adding it as an (unmature) extention to the tapestry
>>>project?
>>>
>>>
>>>ציטוט Richard Lewis-Shell:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Hi,
>>>>
>>>>I think we should add annotation support to Tapestry 4. The initial
>>>>hard work has already been done by Joni
>>>>(http://paloalto.laughingpanda.com/mediawiki/index.php/Tapestry_Annotations),
>>>>so this would mostly be a matter of merging his work (which has been
>>>>deliberately compatibly licensed BTW). The benefit seems clear - and
>>>>we can claim support for one of Java 5's most interesting features
>>>>(and by extension, thus Java 5 itself). The downside would be that we
>>>>would have to use Java 5 to build Tapestry. Is that going to be a
>>>>problem?
>>>>
>>>>Because this is a completely new feature, I do not see a good reason
>>>>to wait. Does anyone else?
>>>>
>>>>There is another reason I am interested in seeing this incorporated
>>>>into Tapestry sooner rather than later - one of encouraging our user
>>>>community. It seems to me that we are a strange open-source project -
>>>>we have a very good/strong user community, but not such a strong
>>>>developer community. We are currently very Howard-centric - there is
>>>>a lot of looking to Howard to guide us/tell-us-how-it-will-be (eg.
>>>>recently it was suggested that template defaults were "in Howard's
>>>>hands", and this attitude permeates on the -user list). While Howard
>>>>has done an incredible job of getting us this far, there is only so
>>>>much one person can do, even if that person is Howard!!! I think we
>>>>run the very real risk of losing relevance to other popular projects
>>>>in the same space (JSF, struts etc) with more active developer
>>>>communities. We are the only ones who can change that, and we do it
>>>>(IMO) by encouraging users to contribute more to the project, and the
>>>>obvious way to encourage user contribution is to incorporate those
>>>>contributions that fit well with Tapestry into the framework itself.
>>>>
>>>>To bring this back to the here and now, annotation support is such a
>>>>user-contribution that I think fits well with Tapestry.
>>>>
>>>>Richard
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>To unsubscribe, e-mail: tapestry-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
>>>For additional commands, e-mail: tapestry-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>
>>---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>
>>
>
>
>
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Re: Adding annotation support to Tapestry 4
Posted by Howard Lewis Ship <hl...@gmail.com>.
I'm working on adding annotation support even as we speak. I felt
inspiried this afternoon. It does mean compiling on JDK 1.5 to target
JDK 1.1, and it also means we can't use commons-lang anymore (it has a
package name thats illegal), so goodbye EnumPropertySelectionModel.
On 6/8/05, Richard Lewis-Shell <rl...@mac.com> wrote:
> I was hoping to get a little more feedback from the others here before
> deciding whether this needed to be put to a vote...
>
> The main issue to me is whether requiring JDK 5 to BUILD Tapestry is
> going to be workable? If there's going to be problems there, we might
> be able to look at some sort of conditional compilation for the annotations.
>
> Richard
>
> Ron Piterman wrote:
> > So why not vote on adding it as an (unmature) extention to the tapestry
> > project?
> >
> >
> > ציטוט Richard Lewis-Shell:
> >
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> I think we should add annotation support to Tapestry 4. The initial
> >> hard work has already been done by Joni
> >> (http://paloalto.laughingpanda.com/mediawiki/index.php/Tapestry_Annotations),
> >> so this would mostly be a matter of merging his work (which has been
> >> deliberately compatibly licensed BTW). The benefit seems clear - and
> >> we can claim support for one of Java 5's most interesting features
> >> (and by extension, thus Java 5 itself). The downside would be that we
> >> would have to use Java 5 to build Tapestry. Is that going to be a
> >> problem?
> >>
> >> Because this is a completely new feature, I do not see a good reason
> >> to wait. Does anyone else?
> >>
> >> There is another reason I am interested in seeing this incorporated
> >> into Tapestry sooner rather than later - one of encouraging our user
> >> community. It seems to me that we are a strange open-source project -
> >> we have a very good/strong user community, but not such a strong
> >> developer community. We are currently very Howard-centric - there is
> >> a lot of looking to Howard to guide us/tell-us-how-it-will-be (eg.
> >> recently it was suggested that template defaults were "in Howard's
> >> hands", and this attitude permeates on the -user list). While Howard
> >> has done an incredible job of getting us this far, there is only so
> >> much one person can do, even if that person is Howard!!! I think we
> >> run the very real risk of losing relevance to other popular projects
> >> in the same space (JSF, struts etc) with more active developer
> >> communities. We are the only ones who can change that, and we do it
> >> (IMO) by encouraging users to contribute more to the project, and the
> >> obvious way to encourage user contribution is to incorporate those
> >> contributions that fit well with Tapestry into the framework itself.
> >>
> >> To bring this back to the here and now, annotation support is such a
> >> user-contribution that I think fits well with Tapestry.
> >>
> >> Richard
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: tapestry-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: tapestry-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
> >
> >
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> For additional commands, e-mail: tapestry-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
>
>
--
Howard M. Lewis Ship
Independent J2EE / Open-Source Java Consultant
Creator, Jakarta Tapestry
Creator, Jakarta HiveMind
Professional Tapestry training, mentoring, support
and project work. http://howardlewisship.com
Re: Adding annotation support to Tapestry 4
Posted by Howard Lewis Ship <hl...@gmail.com>.
The annotation code will be segregated into a seperate module. We'll
be able to please everyone (I think).
On 6/9/05, tsvetelin saykov <ts...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Dear All,
>
> From my point of view for half of the companies/users that use
> Tapestry the migration to java 5 will not be a problem, but it become
> a issue for a companies with huge codebase or based on application
> servers.
> 2 weeks ago I participate to discussion about Java 5 in one of the
> companies close to me, and the decision was to use 1.4 for production
> and 5 for blueprints application and research. In their case migration
> to Java 5 could be a problem.
>
> I prefer to keep Tapestry independent from Java 5 now.
>
> Tsvetelin
>
>
> On 6/9/05, Richard Lewis-Shell <rl...@mac.com> wrote:
> > I was hoping to get a little more feedback from the others here before
> > deciding whether this needed to be put to a vote...
> >
> > The main issue to me is whether requiring JDK 5 to BUILD Tapestry is
> > going to be workable? If there's going to be problems there, we might
> > be able to look at some sort of conditional compilation for the annotations.
> >
> > Richard
> >
> > Ron Piterman wrote:
> > > So why not vote on adding it as an (unmature) extention to the tapestry
> > > project?
> > >
> > >
> > > ציטוט Richard Lewis-Shell:
> > >
> > >> Hi,
> > >>
> > >> I think we should add annotation support to Tapestry 4. The initial
> > >> hard work has already been done by Joni
> > >> (http://paloalto.laughingpanda.com/mediawiki/index.php/Tapestry_Annotations),
> > >> so this would mostly be a matter of merging his work (which has been
> > >> deliberately compatibly licensed BTW). The benefit seems clear - and
> > >> we can claim support for one of Java 5's most interesting features
> > >> (and by extension, thus Java 5 itself). The downside would be that we
> > >> would have to use Java 5 to build Tapestry. Is that going to be a
> > >> problem?
> > >>
> > >> Because this is a completely new feature, I do not see a good reason
> > >> to wait. Does anyone else?
> > >>
> > >> There is another reason I am interested in seeing this incorporated
> > >> into Tapestry sooner rather than later - one of encouraging our user
> > >> community. It seems to me that we are a strange open-source project -
> > >> we have a very good/strong user community, but not such a strong
> > >> developer community. We are currently very Howard-centric - there is
> > >> a lot of looking to Howard to guide us/tell-us-how-it-will-be (eg.
> > >> recently it was suggested that template defaults were "in Howard's
> > >> hands", and this attitude permeates on the -user list). While Howard
> > >> has done an incredible job of getting us this far, there is only so
> > >> much one person can do, even if that person is Howard!!! I think we
> > >> run the very real risk of losing relevance to other popular projects
> > >> in the same space (JSF, struts etc) with more active developer
> > >> communities. We are the only ones who can change that, and we do it
> > >> (IMO) by encouraging users to contribute more to the project, and the
> > >> obvious way to encourage user contribution is to incorporate those
> > >> contributions that fit well with Tapestry into the framework itself.
> > >>
> > >> To bring this back to the here and now, annotation support is such a
> > >> user-contribution that I think fits well with Tapestry.
> > >>
> > >> Richard
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: tapestry-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: tapestry-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
> > >
> > >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: tapestry-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: tapestry-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
> >
> >
>
--
Howard M. Lewis Ship
Independent J2EE / Open-Source Java Consultant
Creator, Jakarta Tapestry
Creator, Jakarta HiveMind
Professional Tapestry training, mentoring, support
and project work. http://howardlewisship.com
Re: Adding annotation support to Tapestry 4
Posted by tsvetelin saykov <ts...@gmail.com>.
Dear All,
From my point of view for half of the companies/users that use
Tapestry the migration to java 5 will not be a problem, but it become
a issue for a companies with huge codebase or based on application
servers.
2 weeks ago I participate to discussion about Java 5 in one of the
companies close to me, and the decision was to use 1.4 for production
and 5 for blueprints application and research. In their case migration
to Java 5 could be a problem.
I prefer to keep Tapestry independent from Java 5 now.
Tsvetelin
On 6/9/05, Richard Lewis-Shell <rl...@mac.com> wrote:
> I was hoping to get a little more feedback from the others here before
> deciding whether this needed to be put to a vote...
>
> The main issue to me is whether requiring JDK 5 to BUILD Tapestry is
> going to be workable? If there's going to be problems there, we might
> be able to look at some sort of conditional compilation for the annotations.
>
> Richard
>
> Ron Piterman wrote:
> > So why not vote on adding it as an (unmature) extention to the tapestry
> > project?
> >
> >
> > ציטוט Richard Lewis-Shell:
> >
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> I think we should add annotation support to Tapestry 4. The initial
> >> hard work has already been done by Joni
> >> (http://paloalto.laughingpanda.com/mediawiki/index.php/Tapestry_Annotations),
> >> so this would mostly be a matter of merging his work (which has been
> >> deliberately compatibly licensed BTW). The benefit seems clear - and
> >> we can claim support for one of Java 5's most interesting features
> >> (and by extension, thus Java 5 itself). The downside would be that we
> >> would have to use Java 5 to build Tapestry. Is that going to be a
> >> problem?
> >>
> >> Because this is a completely new feature, I do not see a good reason
> >> to wait. Does anyone else?
> >>
> >> There is another reason I am interested in seeing this incorporated
> >> into Tapestry sooner rather than later - one of encouraging our user
> >> community. It seems to me that we are a strange open-source project -
> >> we have a very good/strong user community, but not such a strong
> >> developer community. We are currently very Howard-centric - there is
> >> a lot of looking to Howard to guide us/tell-us-how-it-will-be (eg.
> >> recently it was suggested that template defaults were "in Howard's
> >> hands", and this attitude permeates on the -user list). While Howard
> >> has done an incredible job of getting us this far, there is only so
> >> much one person can do, even if that person is Howard!!! I think we
> >> run the very real risk of losing relevance to other popular projects
> >> in the same space (JSF, struts etc) with more active developer
> >> communities. We are the only ones who can change that, and we do it
> >> (IMO) by encouraging users to contribute more to the project, and the
> >> obvious way to encourage user contribution is to incorporate those
> >> contributions that fit well with Tapestry into the framework itself.
> >>
> >> To bring this back to the here and now, annotation support is such a
> >> user-contribution that I think fits well with Tapestry.
> >>
> >> Richard
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: tapestry-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: tapestry-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
> >
> >
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: tapestry-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: tapestry-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
>
>
Re: Adding annotation support to Tapestry 4
Posted by Erik Hatcher <er...@ehatchersolutions.com>.
On Jun 8, 2005, at 7:26 PM, Richard Lewis-Shell wrote:
> I was hoping to get a little more feedback from the others here
> before deciding whether this needed to be put to a vote...
>
> The main issue to me is whether requiring JDK 5 to BUILD Tapestry
> is going to be workable? If there's going to be problems there, we
> might be able to look at some sort of conditional compilation for
> the annotations.
Before the release of Mac OS X Tiger, I would have complained, but
I'm successfully running JDK 1.5 since upgrading and I think we can
now safely assume a stable JDK 1.5 on all relevant platforms now.
Erik
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Re: Adding annotation support to Tapestry 4
Posted by Richard Lewis-Shell <rl...@mac.com>.
I was hoping to get a little more feedback from the others here before
deciding whether this needed to be put to a vote...
The main issue to me is whether requiring JDK 5 to BUILD Tapestry is
going to be workable? If there's going to be problems there, we might
be able to look at some sort of conditional compilation for the annotations.
Richard
Ron Piterman wrote:
> So why not vote on adding it as an (unmature) extention to the tapestry
> project?
>
>
> ציטוט Richard Lewis-Shell:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I think we should add annotation support to Tapestry 4. The initial
>> hard work has already been done by Joni
>> (http://paloalto.laughingpanda.com/mediawiki/index.php/Tapestry_Annotations),
>> so this would mostly be a matter of merging his work (which has been
>> deliberately compatibly licensed BTW). The benefit seems clear - and
>> we can claim support for one of Java 5's most interesting features
>> (and by extension, thus Java 5 itself). The downside would be that we
>> would have to use Java 5 to build Tapestry. Is that going to be a
>> problem?
>>
>> Because this is a completely new feature, I do not see a good reason
>> to wait. Does anyone else?
>>
>> There is another reason I am interested in seeing this incorporated
>> into Tapestry sooner rather than later - one of encouraging our user
>> community. It seems to me that we are a strange open-source project -
>> we have a very good/strong user community, but not such a strong
>> developer community. We are currently very Howard-centric - there is
>> a lot of looking to Howard to guide us/tell-us-how-it-will-be (eg.
>> recently it was suggested that template defaults were "in Howard's
>> hands", and this attitude permeates on the -user list). While Howard
>> has done an incredible job of getting us this far, there is only so
>> much one person can do, even if that person is Howard!!! I think we
>> run the very real risk of losing relevance to other popular projects
>> in the same space (JSF, struts etc) with more active developer
>> communities. We are the only ones who can change that, and we do it
>> (IMO) by encouraging users to contribute more to the project, and the
>> obvious way to encourage user contribution is to incorporate those
>> contributions that fit well with Tapestry into the framework itself.
>>
>> To bring this back to the here and now, annotation support is such a
>> user-contribution that I think fits well with Tapestry.
>>
>> Richard
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: tapestry-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: tapestry-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
>
>
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Re: Adding annotation support to Tapestry 4
Posted by Ron Piterman <mp...@vollbio.de>.
So why not vote on adding it as an (unmature) extention to the tapestry
project?
ציטוט Richard Lewis-Shell:
> Hi,
>
> I think we should add annotation support to Tapestry 4. The initial
> hard work has already been done by Joni
> (http://paloalto.laughingpanda.com/mediawiki/index.php/Tapestry_Annotations),
> so this would mostly be a matter of merging his work (which has been
> deliberately compatibly licensed BTW). The benefit seems clear - and we
> can claim support for one of Java 5's most interesting features (and by
> extension, thus Java 5 itself). The downside would be that we would
> have to use Java 5 to build Tapestry. Is that going to be a problem?
>
> Because this is a completely new feature, I do not see a good reason to
> wait. Does anyone else?
>
> There is another reason I am interested in seeing this incorporated into
> Tapestry sooner rather than later - one of encouraging our user
> community. It seems to me that we are a strange open-source project -
> we have a very good/strong user community, but not such a strong
> developer community. We are currently very Howard-centric - there is a
> lot of looking to Howard to guide us/tell-us-how-it-will-be (eg.
> recently it was suggested that template defaults were "in Howard's
> hands", and this attitude permeates on the -user list). While Howard
> has done an incredible job of getting us this far, there is only so much
> one person can do, even if that person is Howard!!! I think we run the
> very real risk of losing relevance to other popular projects in the same
> space (JSF, struts etc) with more active developer communities. We are
> the only ones who can change that, and we do it (IMO) by encouraging
> users to contribute more to the project, and the obvious way to
> encourage user contribution is to incorporate those contributions that
> fit well with Tapestry into the framework itself.
>
> To bring this back to the here and now, annotation support is such a
> user-contribution that I think fits well with Tapestry.
>
> Richard
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Re: Adding annotation support to Tapestry 4
Posted by Glen Stampoultzis <gs...@iinet.net.au>.
A compelling argument indeed.
liigo wrote:
> �� Mon, 06 Jun 2005 11:44:33 +0800��Richard Lewis-Shell
> <rl...@mac.com> �:
>
> I disagree with you.
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I think we should add annotation support to Tapestry 4. The initial
>> hard work has already been done by Joni
>> (http://paloalto.laughingpanda.com/mediawiki/index.php/Tapestry_Annotations),
>> so this would mostly be a matter of merging his work (which has been
>> deliberately compatibly licensed BTW). The benefit seems clear - and
>> we can claim support for one of Java 5's most interesting features
>> (and by extension, thus Java 5 itself). The downside would be that we
>> would have to use Java 5 to build Tapestry. Is that going to be a
>> problem?
>>
>> Because this is a completely new feature, I do not see a good reason
>> to wait. Does anyone else?
>>
>> There is another reason I am interested in seeing this incorporated
>> into Tapestry sooner rather than later - one of encouraging our user
>> community. It seems to me that we are a strange open-source project -
>> we have a very good/strong user community, but not such a strong
>> developer community. We are currently very Howard-centric - there is
>> a lot of looking to Howard to guide us/tell-us-how-it-will-be (eg.
>> recently it was suggested that template defaults were "in Howard's
>> hands", and this attitude permeates on the -user list). While Howard
>> has done an incredible job of getting us this far, there is only so
>> much one person can do, even if that person is Howard!!! I think we
>> run the very real risk of losing relevance to other popular projects
>> in the same space (JSF, struts etc) with more active developer
>> communities. We are the only ones who can change that, and we do it
>> (IMO) by encouraging users to contribute more to the project, and the
>> obvious way to encourage user contribution is to incorporate those
>> contributions that fit well with Tapestry into the framework itself.
>>
>> To bring this back to the here and now, annotation support is such a
>> user-contribution that I think fits well with Tapestry.
>>
>> Richard
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: tapestry-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: tapestry-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
>>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> For additional commands, e-mail: tapestry-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
>
>
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Re: Adding annotation support to Tapestry 4
Posted by liigo <li...@hotpop.com>.
在 Mon, 06 Jun 2005 11:44:33 +0800，Richard Lewis-Shell
<rl...@mac.com> 写道:
I disagree with you.
> Hi,
>
> I think we should add annotation support to Tapestry 4. The initial
> hard work has already been done by Joni
> (http://paloalto.laughingpanda.com/mediawiki/index.php/Tapestry_Annotations),
> so this would mostly be a matter of merging his work (which has been
> deliberately compatibly licensed BTW). The benefit seems clear - and we
> can claim support for one of Java 5's most interesting features (and by
> extension, thus Java 5 itself). The downside would be that we would
> have to use Java 5 to build Tapestry. Is that going to be a problem?
>
> Because this is a completely new feature, I do not see a good reason to
> wait. Does anyone else?
>
> There is another reason I am interested in seeing this incorporated into
> Tapestry sooner rather than later - one of encouraging our user
> community. It seems to me that we are a strange open-source project -
> we have a very good/strong user community, but not such a strong
> developer community. We are currently very Howard-centric - there is a
> lot of looking to Howard to guide us/tell-us-how-it-will-be (eg.
> recently it was suggested that template defaults were "in Howard's
> hands", and this attitude permeates on the -user list). While Howard
> has done an incredible job of getting us this far, there is only so much
> one person can do, even if that person is Howard!!! I think we run the
> very real risk of losing relevance to other popular projects in the same
> space (JSF, struts etc) with more active developer communities. We are
> the only ones who can change that, and we do it (IMO) by encouraging
> users to contribute more to the project, and the obvious way to
> encourage user contribution is to incorporate those contributions that
> fit well with Tapestry into the framework itself.
>
> To bring this back to the here and now, annotation support is such a
> user-contribution that I think fits well with Tapestry.
>
> Richard
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: tapestry-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: tapestry-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
>
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