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Posted to soap-user@ws.apache.org by Mark Hansen <kh...@yahoo.com> on 2002/09/20 00:22:57 UTC
Axis vs. Apache SOAP
What is the difference between Axis and Apache SOAP?
Re: Axis vs. Apache SOAP
Posted by Sam Ruby <ru...@apache.org>.
WJCarpenter wrote:
>>[Axis] offers better performance than Apache SOAP.
>
> Do you know of any work actually comparing the performance of the
> two? I see this claim sometimes, but when I ask about it I usually
> get no response or "well, it's designed to be faster". I don't doubt
> that Apache SOAP is slow; I just wonder if the claims of Axis being
> faster are justified or merely untested hopes.
As with most performance data, the only real answer is "your mileage may
vary". However, I will say that this is not merely untested hopes,
there has been a significant effort within Axis focusing on performance
using measurements taken from customer provided scenarios.
- Sam Ruby
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Re: Axis vs. Apache SOAP
Posted by Sam Ruby <ru...@apache.org>.
WJCarpenter wrote:
>>[Axis] offers better performance than Apache SOAP.
>
> Do you know of any work actually comparing the performance of the
> two? I see this claim sometimes, but when I ask about it I usually
> get no response or "well, it's designed to be faster". I don't doubt
> that Apache SOAP is slow; I just wonder if the claims of Axis being
> faster are justified or merely untested hopes.
As with most performance data, the only real answer is "your mileage may
vary". However, I will say that this is not merely untested hopes,
there has been a significant effort within Axis focusing on performance
using measurements taken from customer provided scenarios.
- Sam Ruby
Re: Axis vs. Apache SOAP
Posted by Vivek Chopra <vi...@yahoo.com>.
Does anyone know of a set of performance tests a la
TPC, but specifically targetted to SOAP
Implementations? I've seen a bunch of claims about one
implementation being better that the other, and there
isn't any objective way to determine this.
ASF would be a good forum to build these
tests/metrics- something that measures
a. Turnaround time (say using a simple echo service)
b. Load handling (# of SOAP requests/min that it can
handle)
c. Large XML payload handling
d. Memory footprint (startup, runtime)
etc.
- Vivek
--- Vivek Chopra <vi...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> My bad.. I sent a link to the older (version of this
> paper.
>
> See
>
>
http://joe.lindsay.net/webservices/rutgers-p2p-p2pws02-soap.pdf
>
> This version of the paper has Axis (alpha 3) and
> Apache SOAP 2.2
>
> - Vivek
>
> --- Scott Nichol <sn...@scottnichol.com>
> wrote:
> > That comparison does not have Axis, and was back
> at
> > SOAP 2.2.
> >
> > Scott Nichol
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Vivek Chopra" <vi...@yahoo.com>
> > To: <so...@xml.apache.org>
> > Sent: Friday, September 20, 2002 1:12 PM
> > Subject: RE: Axis vs. Apache SOAP
> >
> >
> > > The following paper has performance figures for
> a
> > > number of SOAP implementations, including Apache
> > and
> > > Axis.
> > >
> > >
> >
>
http://www.cse.ogi.edu/~wuchang/cse581_winter2002/papers/p2p-p2pws02-soap.pd
> > f
> > >
> > > - Vivek
> > >
> > > --- WJCarpenter <bi...@carpenter.org> wrote:
> > > > > [Axis] offers better performance than Apache
> > SOAP.
> > > >
> > > > Do you know of any work actually comparing the
> > > > performance of the
> > > > two? I see this claim sometimes, but when I
> ask
> > > > about it I usually
> > > > get no response or "well, it's designed to be
> > > > faster". I don't doubt
> > > > that Apache SOAP is slow; I just wonder if the
> > > > claims of Axis being
> > > > faster are justified or merely untested hopes.
> > > >
=====
email: vivek@soaprpc.com
web : http://www.soaprpc.com
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Re: Axis vs. Apache SOAP
Posted by Vivek Chopra <vi...@yahoo.com>.
Does anyone know of a set of performance tests a la
TPC, but specifically targetted to SOAP
Implementations? I've seen a bunch of claims about one
implementation being better that the other, and there
isn't any objective way to determine this.
ASF would be a good forum to build these
tests/metrics- something that measures
a. Turnaround time (say using a simple echo service)
b. Load handling (# of SOAP requests/min that it can
handle)
c. Large XML payload handling
d. Memory footprint (startup, runtime)
etc.
- Vivek
--- Vivek Chopra <vi...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> My bad.. I sent a link to the older (version of this
> paper.
>
> See
>
>
http://joe.lindsay.net/webservices/rutgers-p2p-p2pws02-soap.pdf
>
> This version of the paper has Axis (alpha 3) and
> Apache SOAP 2.2
>
> - Vivek
>
> --- Scott Nichol <sn...@scottnichol.com>
> wrote:
> > That comparison does not have Axis, and was back
> at
> > SOAP 2.2.
> >
> > Scott Nichol
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Vivek Chopra" <vi...@yahoo.com>
> > To: <so...@xml.apache.org>
> > Sent: Friday, September 20, 2002 1:12 PM
> > Subject: RE: Axis vs. Apache SOAP
> >
> >
> > > The following paper has performance figures for
> a
> > > number of SOAP implementations, including Apache
> > and
> > > Axis.
> > >
> > >
> >
>
http://www.cse.ogi.edu/~wuchang/cse581_winter2002/papers/p2p-p2pws02-soap.pd
> > f
> > >
> > > - Vivek
> > >
> > > --- WJCarpenter <bi...@carpenter.org> wrote:
> > > > > [Axis] offers better performance than Apache
> > SOAP.
> > > >
> > > > Do you know of any work actually comparing the
> > > > performance of the
> > > > two? I see this claim sometimes, but when I
> ask
> > > > about it I usually
> > > > get no response or "well, it's designed to be
> > > > faster". I don't doubt
> > > > that Apache SOAP is slow; I just wonder if the
> > > > claims of Axis being
> > > > faster are justified or merely untested hopes.
> > > >
=====
email: vivek@soaprpc.com
web : http://www.soaprpc.com
__________________________________________________
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Re: Axis vs. Apache SOAP
Posted by Vivek Chopra <vi...@yahoo.com>.
My bad.. I sent a link to the older (version of this
paper.
See
http://joe.lindsay.net/webservices/rutgers-p2p-p2pws02-soap.pdf
This version of the paper has Axis (alpha 3) and
Apache SOAP 2.2
- Vivek
--- Scott Nichol <sn...@scottnichol.com> wrote:
> That comparison does not have Axis, and was back at
> SOAP 2.2.
>
> Scott Nichol
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Vivek Chopra" <vi...@yahoo.com>
> To: <so...@xml.apache.org>
> Sent: Friday, September 20, 2002 1:12 PM
> Subject: RE: Axis vs. Apache SOAP
>
>
> > The following paper has performance figures for a
> > number of SOAP implementations, including Apache
> and
> > Axis.
> >
> >
>
http://www.cse.ogi.edu/~wuchang/cse581_winter2002/papers/p2p-p2pws02-soap.pd
> f
> >
> > - Vivek
> >
> > --- WJCarpenter <bi...@carpenter.org> wrote:
> > > > [Axis] offers better performance than Apache
> SOAP.
> > >
> > > Do you know of any work actually comparing the
> > > performance of the
> > > two? I see this claim sometimes, but when I ask
> > > about it I usually
> > > get no response or "well, it's designed to be
> > > faster". I don't doubt
> > > that Apache SOAP is slow; I just wonder if the
> > > claims of Axis being
> > > faster are justified or merely untested hopes.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> > > <ma...@xml.apache.org>
> > > For additional commands, e-mail:
> > > <ma...@xml.apache.org>
> > >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!
> > http://sbc.yahoo.com
> >
> > --
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> <ma...@xml.apache.org>
> > For additional commands, e-mail:
> <ma...@xml.apache.org>
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> <ma...@xml.apache.org>
> For additional commands, e-mail:
> <ma...@xml.apache.org>
>
__________________________________________________
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Re: Axis vs. Apache SOAP
Posted by Vivek Chopra <vi...@yahoo.com>.
My bad.. I sent a link to the older (version of this
paper.
See
http://joe.lindsay.net/webservices/rutgers-p2p-p2pws02-soap.pdf
This version of the paper has Axis (alpha 3) and
Apache SOAP 2.2
- Vivek
--- Scott Nichol <sn...@scottnichol.com> wrote:
> That comparison does not have Axis, and was back at
> SOAP 2.2.
>
> Scott Nichol
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Vivek Chopra" <vi...@yahoo.com>
> To: <so...@xml.apache.org>
> Sent: Friday, September 20, 2002 1:12 PM
> Subject: RE: Axis vs. Apache SOAP
>
>
> > The following paper has performance figures for a
> > number of SOAP implementations, including Apache
> and
> > Axis.
> >
> >
>
http://www.cse.ogi.edu/~wuchang/cse581_winter2002/papers/p2p-p2pws02-soap.pd
> f
> >
> > - Vivek
> >
> > --- WJCarpenter <bi...@carpenter.org> wrote:
> > > > [Axis] offers better performance than Apache
> SOAP.
> > >
> > > Do you know of any work actually comparing the
> > > performance of the
> > > two? I see this claim sometimes, but when I ask
> > > about it I usually
> > > get no response or "well, it's designed to be
> > > faster". I don't doubt
> > > that Apache SOAP is slow; I just wonder if the
> > > claims of Axis being
> > > faster are justified or merely untested hopes.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> > > <ma...@xml.apache.org>
> > > For additional commands, e-mail:
> > > <ma...@xml.apache.org>
> > >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!
> > http://sbc.yahoo.com
> >
> > --
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> <ma...@xml.apache.org>
> > For additional commands, e-mail:
> <ma...@xml.apache.org>
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> <ma...@xml.apache.org>
> For additional commands, e-mail:
> <ma...@xml.apache.org>
>
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Re: Axis vs. Apache SOAP
Posted by Scott Nichol <sn...@scottnichol.com>.
That comparison does not have Axis, and was back at SOAP 2.2.
Scott Nichol
----- Original Message -----
From: "Vivek Chopra" <vi...@yahoo.com>
To: <so...@xml.apache.org>
Sent: Friday, September 20, 2002 1:12 PM
Subject: RE: Axis vs. Apache SOAP
> The following paper has performance figures for a
> number of SOAP implementations, including Apache and
> Axis.
>
>
http://www.cse.ogi.edu/~wuchang/cse581_winter2002/papers/p2p-p2pws02-soap.pd
f
>
> - Vivek
>
> --- WJCarpenter <bi...@carpenter.org> wrote:
> > > [Axis] offers better performance than Apache SOAP.
> >
> > Do you know of any work actually comparing the
> > performance of the
> > two? I see this claim sometimes, but when I ask
> > about it I usually
> > get no response or "well, it's designed to be
> > faster". I don't doubt
> > that Apache SOAP is slow; I just wonder if the
> > claims of Axis being
> > faster are justified or merely untested hopes.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> > <ma...@xml.apache.org>
> > For additional commands, e-mail:
> > <ma...@xml.apache.org>
> >
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!
> http://sbc.yahoo.com
>
> --
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@xml.apache.org>
> For additional commands, e-mail: <ma...@xml.apache.org>
>
>
Re: Axis vs. Apache SOAP
Posted by Scott Nichol <sn...@scottnichol.com>.
That comparison does not have Axis, and was back at SOAP 2.2.
Scott Nichol
----- Original Message -----
From: "Vivek Chopra" <vi...@yahoo.com>
To: <so...@xml.apache.org>
Sent: Friday, September 20, 2002 1:12 PM
Subject: RE: Axis vs. Apache SOAP
> The following paper has performance figures for a
> number of SOAP implementations, including Apache and
> Axis.
>
>
http://www.cse.ogi.edu/~wuchang/cse581_winter2002/papers/p2p-p2pws02-soap.pd
f
>
> - Vivek
>
> --- WJCarpenter <bi...@carpenter.org> wrote:
> > > [Axis] offers better performance than Apache SOAP.
> >
> > Do you know of any work actually comparing the
> > performance of the
> > two? I see this claim sometimes, but when I ask
> > about it I usually
> > get no response or "well, it's designed to be
> > faster". I don't doubt
> > that Apache SOAP is slow; I just wonder if the
> > claims of Axis being
> > faster are justified or merely untested hopes.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> > <ma...@xml.apache.org>
> > For additional commands, e-mail:
> > <ma...@xml.apache.org>
> >
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!
> http://sbc.yahoo.com
>
> --
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@xml.apache.org>
> For additional commands, e-mail: <ma...@xml.apache.org>
>
>
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RE: Axis vs. Apache SOAP
Posted by Vivek Chopra <vi...@yahoo.com>.
The following paper has performance figures for a
number of SOAP implementations, including Apache and
Axis.
http://www.cse.ogi.edu/~wuchang/cse581_winter2002/papers/p2p-p2pws02-soap.pdf
- Vivek
--- WJCarpenter <bi...@carpenter.org> wrote:
> > [Axis] offers better performance than Apache SOAP.
>
> Do you know of any work actually comparing the
> performance of the
> two? I see this claim sometimes, but when I ask
> about it I usually
> get no response or "well, it's designed to be
> faster". I don't doubt
> that Apache SOAP is slow; I just wonder if the
> claims of Axis being
> faster are justified or merely untested hopes.
>
>
>
>
> --
> To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> <ma...@xml.apache.org>
> For additional commands, e-mail:
> <ma...@xml.apache.org>
>
__________________________________________________
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RE: Axis vs. Apache SOAP
Posted by Vivek Chopra <vi...@yahoo.com>.
The following paper has performance figures for a
number of SOAP implementations, including Apache and
Axis.
http://www.cse.ogi.edu/~wuchang/cse581_winter2002/papers/p2p-p2pws02-soap.pdf
- Vivek
--- WJCarpenter <bi...@carpenter.org> wrote:
> > [Axis] offers better performance than Apache SOAP.
>
> Do you know of any work actually comparing the
> performance of the
> two? I see this claim sometimes, but when I ask
> about it I usually
> get no response or "well, it's designed to be
> faster". I don't doubt
> that Apache SOAP is slow; I just wonder if the
> claims of Axis being
> faster are justified or merely untested hopes.
>
>
>
>
> --
> To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> <ma...@xml.apache.org>
> For additional commands, e-mail:
> <ma...@xml.apache.org>
>
__________________________________________________
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New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!
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RE: Axis vs. Apache SOAP
Posted by Anne Thomas Manes <an...@manes.net>.
I haven't seen a direct comparison of the performance of Axis vs SOAP.
Axis's design is certainly better. Axis uses SAX, and SOAP uses DOM, so at a
minimum, I'm sure that Axis performs better and is more scalable when
working with large messages. Axis is still in beta and the engineering team
hasn't really started trying to optimize performance yet. Axis is defintely
not the fastest SOAP implementation on the market. GLUE and WASP offer 3-20x
better performance than Axis (depending on message complexity). Both GLUE
and WASP use highly optimized XML parsers.
When I say "performance", I'm talking about raw XML message processing time.
Many other things can affect performance and scalability, such as what
application server / servlet engine you deploy the Web service container in,
and whether or not the container can take advantage of the performance and
scalability features of underlying servlet engine.
For example, in terms of simple performance -- i.e., how many messages can
you process in a minute -- WASP runs fastest in standalone mode. But in
terms of scalability, WASP runs best in WebLogic.
Anne
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WJCarpenter [mailto:bill-soap@carpenter.org]
> Sent: Friday, September 20, 2002 12:56 PM
> To: soap-user@xml.apache.org
> Subject: RE: Axis vs. Apache SOAP
>
>
> > [Axis] offers better performance than Apache SOAP.
>
> Do you know of any work actually comparing the performance of the
> two? I see this claim sometimes, but when I ask about it I usually
> get no response or "well, it's designed to be faster". I don't doubt
> that Apache SOAP is slow; I just wonder if the claims of Axis being
> faster are justified or merely untested hopes.
>
>
>
>
> --
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@xml.apache.org>
> For additional commands, e-mail: <ma...@xml.apache.org>
>
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@xml.apache.org>
For additional commands, e-mail: <ma...@xml.apache.org>
RE: Axis vs. Apache SOAP
Posted by Anne Thomas Manes <an...@manes.net>.
I haven't seen a direct comparison of the performance of Axis vs SOAP.
Axis's design is certainly better. Axis uses SAX, and SOAP uses DOM, so at a
minimum, I'm sure that Axis performs better and is more scalable when
working with large messages. Axis is still in beta and the engineering team
hasn't really started trying to optimize performance yet. Axis is defintely
not the fastest SOAP implementation on the market. GLUE and WASP offer 3-20x
better performance than Axis (depending on message complexity). Both GLUE
and WASP use highly optimized XML parsers.
When I say "performance", I'm talking about raw XML message processing time.
Many other things can affect performance and scalability, such as what
application server / servlet engine you deploy the Web service container in,
and whether or not the container can take advantage of the performance and
scalability features of underlying servlet engine.
For example, in terms of simple performance -- i.e., how many messages can
you process in a minute -- WASP runs fastest in standalone mode. But in
terms of scalability, WASP runs best in WebLogic.
Anne
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WJCarpenter [mailto:bill-soap@carpenter.org]
> Sent: Friday, September 20, 2002 12:56 PM
> To: soap-user@xml.apache.org
> Subject: RE: Axis vs. Apache SOAP
>
>
> > [Axis] offers better performance than Apache SOAP.
>
> Do you know of any work actually comparing the performance of the
> two? I see this claim sometimes, but when I ask about it I usually
> get no response or "well, it's designed to be faster". I don't doubt
> that Apache SOAP is slow; I just wonder if the claims of Axis being
> faster are justified or merely untested hopes.
>
>
>
>
> --
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@xml.apache.org>
> For additional commands, e-mail: <ma...@xml.apache.org>
>
RE: Axis vs. Apache SOAP
Posted by WJCarpenter <bi...@carpenter.org>.
> [Axis] offers better performance than Apache SOAP.
Do you know of any work actually comparing the performance of the
two? I see this claim sometimes, but when I ask about it I usually
get no response or "well, it's designed to be faster". I don't doubt
that Apache SOAP is slow; I just wonder if the claims of Axis being
faster are justified or merely untested hopes.
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@xml.apache.org>
For additional commands, e-mail: <ma...@xml.apache.org>
RE: Axis vs. Apache SOAP
Posted by WJCarpenter <bi...@carpenter.org>.
> [Axis] offers better performance than Apache SOAP.
Do you know of any work actually comparing the performance of the
two? I see this claim sometimes, but when I ask about it I usually
get no response or "well, it's designed to be faster". I don't doubt
that Apache SOAP is slow; I just wonder if the claims of Axis being
faster are justified or merely untested hopes.
RE: Axis vs. Apache SOAP
Posted by Anne Thomas Manes <an...@manes.net>.
Apache SOAP is based on the original SOAP4J code base that IBM contributed
to Apache in April 2000. This implementation isn't WSDL-aware. It requires
that you include type information on the wire (in the SOAP messages). It has
interoperability issues. It has a proprietary API. It has limited
extensibility features. It has very slow performance.
About 20 months ago, rather than try to rework the old Apache SOAP code base
to resolve thes problems, the Apache SOAP engineering team decided that it
would be easier to start over from scratch and design a new SOAP
implementation with a more flexible and extensible architecture. So they
started the Apache Axis project. Since then very little work has been done
on the Apache SOAP code base (mostly just bug fixes), and almost all efforts
have been focused on Axis. Apache Axis is a second generation SOAP
implementation. It's fully WSDL-aware. It supports the JAX-RPC API. It
offers better performance than Apache SOAP. It's designed to be
extensible -- it's easy to use alternate transports (e.g., SMTP, JMS, etc),
it's easy to support complex types, headers, etc. It's interoperable. And it
has much better tools than Apache SOAP. Apache Axis is still in beta,
though.
Anne
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Hansen [mailto:khookguy@yahoo.com]
Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2002 6:23 PM
To: soap-user@xml.apache.org
Subject: Axis vs. Apache SOAP
What is the difference between Axis and Apache SOAP?
RE: Axis vs. Apache SOAP
Posted by Anne Thomas Manes <an...@manes.net>.
Apache SOAP is based on the original SOAP4J code base that IBM contributed
to Apache in April 2000. This implementation isn't WSDL-aware. It requires
that you include type information on the wire (in the SOAP messages). It has
interoperability issues. It has a proprietary API. It has limited
extensibility features. It has very slow performance.
About 20 months ago, rather than try to rework the old Apache SOAP code base
to resolve thes problems, the Apache SOAP engineering team decided that it
would be easier to start over from scratch and design a new SOAP
implementation with a more flexible and extensible architecture. So they
started the Apache Axis project. Since then very little work has been done
on the Apache SOAP code base (mostly just bug fixes), and almost all efforts
have been focused on Axis. Apache Axis is a second generation SOAP
implementation. It's fully WSDL-aware. It supports the JAX-RPC API. It
offers better performance than Apache SOAP. It's designed to be
extensible -- it's easy to use alternate transports (e.g., SMTP, JMS, etc),
it's easy to support complex types, headers, etc. It's interoperable. And it
has much better tools than Apache SOAP. Apache Axis is still in beta,
though.
Anne
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Hansen [mailto:khookguy@yahoo.com]
Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2002 6:23 PM
To: soap-user@xml.apache.org
Subject: Axis vs. Apache SOAP
What is the difference between Axis and Apache SOAP?