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Posted to dev@kafka.apache.org by Jorge Esteban Quilcate Otoya <qu...@gmail.com> on 2023/05/22 16:18:19 UTC
[DISCUSS] KIP-934: Add DeleteTopicPolicy
Hi everyone,
I'd like to start a discussion for KIP-934 <
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/KAFKA/KIP-934%3A+Add+DeleteTopicPolicy>
which proposes adding a new policy for when deleting topics.
There have been related KIPs in the past that haven't been accepted and
seem retired/abandoned as outlined in the motivation.
The scope of this KIP intends to be more specific to get most of the
benefits from previous discussions; and if previous KIPs are resurrected,
should still be possible to do it if this one is adopted.
Looking forward to your feedback!
Thanks,
Jorge.
Re: [DISCUSS] KIP-934: Add DeleteTopicPolicy
Posted by Jorge Esteban Quilcate Otoya <qu...@gmail.com>.
Thank Colin.
> One last note: if we do this, we should pass the UUID of the topic as
well as the name.
Sure, adding it to the KIP.
> On the minus side, the stated use-case (preventing deletion of
__consumer_offsets) seems easy to solve via ACLs. The CreateTopics case is
different... it's not as easy to solve via ACLs because people wanted to
enforcce specific topic names or conventions, beyond what ACLs could
provide.
> So it would be good to understand a bit more about why ACLs are not a
better solution than deletion policies.
Thanks for highlight this. I elaborated on the motivation a bit further.
I agree ACLs are a main tool to protect against unwanted topic deletion;
but even when proper users are authorized, it may be a human error to
request a topic deletion. So, in this case, policies act as a complement to
ACLs when topic deletion wants to be blocked.
Looking forward to your feedback.
Many thanks,
Jorge.
On Fri, 2 Jun 2023 at 22:24, Colin McCabe <cm...@apache.org> wrote:
> Hi Jorge,
>
> On the plus side, the change is small and pretty easy to support.
>
> On the minus side, the stated use-case (preventing deletion of
> __consumer_offsets) seems easy to solve via ACLs. The CreateTopics case is
> different... it's not as easy to solve via ACLs because people wanted to
> enforcce specific topic names or conventions, beyond what ACLs could
> provide.
>
> So it would be good to understand a bit more about why ACLs are not a
> better solution than deletion policies.
>
> One last note: if we do this, we should pass the UUID of the topic as well
> as the name.
>
> best,
> Colin
>
>
> On Mon, May 22, 2023, at 09:18, Jorge Esteban Quilcate Otoya wrote:
> > Hi everyone,
> >
> > I'd like to start a discussion for KIP-934 <
> >
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/KAFKA/KIP-934%3A+Add+DeleteTopicPolicy
> >
> > which proposes adding a new policy for when deleting topics.
> >
> > There have been related KIPs in the past that haven't been accepted and
> > seem retired/abandoned as outlined in the motivation.
> > The scope of this KIP intends to be more specific to get most of the
> > benefits from previous discussions; and if previous KIPs are resurrected,
> > should still be possible to do it if this one is adopted.
> >
> > Looking forward to your feedback!
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Jorge.
>
Re: [DISCUSS] KIP-934: Add DeleteTopicPolicy
Posted by Colin McCabe <cm...@apache.org>.
Hi Jorge,
On the plus side, the change is small and pretty easy to support.
On the minus side, the stated use-case (preventing deletion of __consumer_offsets) seems easy to solve via ACLs. The CreateTopics case is different... it's not as easy to solve via ACLs because people wanted to enforcce specific topic names or conventions, beyond what ACLs could provide.
So it would be good to understand a bit more about why ACLs are not a better solution than deletion policies.
One last note: if we do this, we should pass the UUID of the topic as well as the name.
best,
Colin
On Mon, May 22, 2023, at 09:18, Jorge Esteban Quilcate Otoya wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
> I'd like to start a discussion for KIP-934 <
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/KAFKA/KIP-934%3A+Add+DeleteTopicPolicy>
> which proposes adding a new policy for when deleting topics.
>
> There have been related KIPs in the past that haven't been accepted and
> seem retired/abandoned as outlined in the motivation.
> The scope of this KIP intends to be more specific to get most of the
> benefits from previous discussions; and if previous KIPs are resurrected,
> should still be possible to do it if this one is adopted.
>
> Looking forward to your feedback!
>
> Thanks,
> Jorge.
Re: [DISCUSS] KIP-934: Add DeleteTopicPolicy
Posted by Jorge Esteban Quilcate Otoya <qu...@gmail.com>.
Thanks Christo!
On Tue, 23 May 2023 at 13:02, Christo Lolov <ch...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Heya Jorge,
>
> Thank you for the KIP!
>
> This feature sounds great to me since I have encountered problems with
> this, so I am supporting it. Do you have any idea why the previous KIPs
> were abandoned - I went through the email conversations and pull requests,
> but I didn't find a good reason?
>
Looking at the mailing thread, my understanding is:
In the case of KIP-170, it was retired as part of the KIP-201 when it was
figured they were overlapping. (around here[1]?)
For KIP-201, it's not clear. It was not stated within the mailing list
(last mail on Aug 2019), but on the PR that I found it was abandoned[3].
Maybe @Mickael Maison <mi...@gmail.com> may have more background?
[1] https://lists.apache.org/thread/6nkm706o7qjlz2ld7v8xdhf1421brh7o
[2] https://lists.apache.org/thread/cklw5fr5j1nhxyp5hpkfc1orm8r2tsmn
[3] https://github.com/apache/kafka/pull/4281#issuecomment-1035154386
>
> Best,
> Christo
>
> On Mon, 22 May 2023 at 17:19, Jorge Esteban Quilcate Otoya <
> quilcate.jorge@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi everyone,
> >
> > I'd like to start a discussion for KIP-934 <
> >
> >
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/KAFKA/KIP-934%3A+Add+DeleteTopicPolicy
> > >
> > which proposes adding a new policy for when deleting topics.
> >
> > There have been related KIPs in the past that haven't been accepted and
> > seem retired/abandoned as outlined in the motivation.
> > The scope of this KIP intends to be more specific to get most of the
> > benefits from previous discussions; and if previous KIPs are resurrected,
> > should still be possible to do it if this one is adopted.
> >
> > Looking forward to your feedback!
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Jorge.
> >
>
Re: [DISCUSS] KIP-934: Add DeleteTopicPolicy
Posted by Christo Lolov <ch...@gmail.com>.
Heya Jorge,
Thank you for the KIP!
This feature sounds great to me since I have encountered problems with
this, so I am supporting it. Do you have any idea why the previous KIPs
were abandoned - I went through the email conversations and pull requests,
but I didn't find a good reason?
Best,
Christo
On Mon, 22 May 2023 at 17:19, Jorge Esteban Quilcate Otoya <
quilcate.jorge@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
> I'd like to start a discussion for KIP-934 <
>
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/KAFKA/KIP-934%3A+Add+DeleteTopicPolicy
> >
> which proposes adding a new policy for when deleting topics.
>
> There have been related KIPs in the past that haven't been accepted and
> seem retired/abandoned as outlined in the motivation.
> The scope of this KIP intends to be more specific to get most of the
> benefits from previous discussions; and if previous KIPs are resurrected,
> should still be possible to do it if this one is adopted.
>
> Looking forward to your feedback!
>
> Thanks,
> Jorge.
>