Re: Axis2 dependencies mostly with ASL ?

[Paul Libbrecht <pa...@activemath.org>]

robert burrell donkin wrote:
> perhaps you are confusing packaging with copyright, and copyright with
> licensing when creating a clean implementation, you start with the specification
> and then create the appropriate classes in the appropriate packages.
> just because a class is in org.w3c.* does not imply that it was not
> created at apache.
>   
I never claimed it was done at apache... I complained about a claim that 
it is under APL which is, unless some copyright-owner did put this or 
made a grant, simply wrong.
>> Not surprisingly the javax files found at the downloads of 
>> stax.codehaus.org are all copyright BEA or Sun... and do not contain any 
>> NOTICE file...
>>     
> The copyright holder
> may issue as many licenses as they wish for a particular work. they may
> choose to grant apache a license which allows sublicensing under the
> apache software license whilst retaining the original copyright. 
>   
Sure but leaving this as is just means that the copyright holder has 
issued these classes under the indicated license... and I see no trace 
of that.
> [...]
> but apache does need to work harder to make it easier to track the
> origins of source and artifacts. i would prefer to see all documents
> without a license header to have detached machine readable meta-data. i
> would also like to see source covered by software grants to include
> machine readable meta-data tying it to it's origins. (and i'm working on
> code to help with that.)
>   
Looking forward to it...
In the meantime, can we at request pointers to grants for any licensed 
that is not "commonly found from a default place to look for" (e.g. the 
JCP page for StAX or the W3C-DOM spec for DOM) ?

paul

Re: Axis2 dependencies mostly with ASL ?

[robert burrell donkin <rd...@apache.org>]

On Mon, 2007-01-01 at 22:51 +0100, Paul Libbrecht wrote:
> robert burrell donkin wrote:
> > perhaps you are confusing packaging with copyright, and copyright with
> > licensing when creating a clean implementation, you start with the specification
> > and then create the appropriate classes in the appropriate packages.
> > just because a class is in org.w3c.* does not imply that it was not
> > created at apache.
> >   
> I never claimed it was done at apache... 

to reiterate: just because a class is packaged under org.w3c.* says
nothing about the copyright ownership

to repeat: i suspect that the classes in org.w3c.* are covered by a
software grant from either sun or ibm

> I complained about a claim that 
> it is under APL which is, unless some copyright-owner did put this or 
> made a grant, simply wrong.

copyright isn't that simple

for example, a copyright owner may (if they wish) grant a general
license which allows sublicensing 

> >> Not surprisingly the javax files found at the downloads of 
> >> stax.codehaus.org are all copyright BEA or Sun... and do not contain any 
> >> NOTICE file...
> >>     
> > The copyright holder
> > may issue as many licenses as they wish for a particular work. they may
> > choose to grant apache a license which allows sublicensing under the
> > apache software license whilst retaining the original copyright. 
> >   
> Sure but leaving this as is just means that the copyright holder has 
> issued these classes under the indicated license... 

that's not necessary: a compatible license is good enough

> and I see no trace of that.

until apache starts using human and machine readable meta-data to enable
tracking of the origins of documents, only detailed forensic analysis of
commit logs can reveal the origins of documents.

> > [...]
> > but apache does need to work harder to make it easier to track the
> > origins of source and artifacts. i would prefer to see all documents
> > without a license header to have detached machine readable meta-data. i
> > would also like to see source covered by software grants to include
> > machine readable meta-data tying it to it's origins. (and i'm working on
> > code to help with that.)
> >   
> Looking forward to it...
> In the meantime, can we at request pointers to grants for any licensed 
> that is not "commonly found from a default place to look for" (e.g. the 
> JCP page for StAX or the W3C-DOM spec for DOM) ?

they are available in a private repository

IMHO it would be in apache's best interests to make all software grants,
CLAs and CCLAs public but AFAIK that's not the policy ATM

- robert