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Posted to user@struts.apache.org by Sergey Smirnov <si...@exadel.com> on 2003/05/01 23:45:15 UTC
Exadel Struts Studio. Message from the Source.
We did the current version of Struts Studio for FREE use. We spend our time and resources trying to make a tool that helps developers, especially newbies, to hide complexity of the technology. Personally, I work hard for last several months since 7am till 2am each day, included weekends, to do this job.
And what is the result. You said that everything I did is just a span. Thank you, of course, for your suggestion, but I am not ready to buy it. I just see only disregard to colleagues here and nothing more.
--
Sergey Smirnov
Exadel Struts Studio Architect
----- Original Message -----
From: Jeff Kyser
To: Struts Users Mailing List
Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2003 2:03 PM
Subject: Re: [ANN] New release of Exadel Struts Studio
I don't have anything personal against Exadel other than that I
view product announcements showing up on a user list as
yet another form of junk mail I didn't really want to receive.
(I guess I could set up a filter to get rid of ANN - who
is she anyway? - LOL)
If the charter for the struts-user list includes encouraging folks
to sell their 'struts-related' tools on the list, then I guess that
makes me the odd man out.
Just seems that most folks have generally selected a tool and
are working with it already, or we get into IDE wars that start
with somebody mentioning emacs and somebody else hurling
anathemas like 'lisp boy', and it going rapidly downhill into
useless banter from there...
Were I king, there'd be a product links page somewhere on
the Struts page (probably already is), and whoever maintained
the links would yank the link of any company who posted
their latest product offerings to the list.
And, as my second act as king, I'd get the 'struts boot camp' to
develop a site that let individuals post their opinions about the
products and hang that off the struts pages as well, and then
everyone who so desired could hawk their favorite IDE or
tool or blast it for its features/license 'til the cows come home...
regards,
-jeff
On Thursday, May 1, 2003, at 03:13 PM, James Mitchell wrote:
> On Thu, 2003-05-01 at 15:55, Josh Rayls wrote:
>> Like the previous emailer, I too, was was surprised to see yet
>> another ad
>> for your product on here, hence my reply. The question was "Is anyone
>> actually using this?"
>>
>> It seems a little obnoxious to post ads to the Struts mailing list for
>> commercial products. I don't think anyone clicked the "send offers
>> for new
>> products" checkbox when joining the list-- not to mention that the
>> license
>> is rediculous.
>
> Sorry, but I disagree. I welcome all announcements for new and
> existing
> struts-related products, commercial or not.
>
> (this is not aimed at Josh, but to everyone)
> I find it a bit unfair that a few people on this list have chosen to
> pick on this product because of their own lack of understanding about
> standard licensing verbage. Have you checked out the license for all
> other tools/components that have sent announcements to this list? I
> doubt it.
>
> If you hadn't noticed, the Apache license is a "business friendly"
> license. You are supposed to make money using these tools.
>
> Let's get off Igor's case. I'm happy to see corporate support for
> Struts. Sorry, but I just like having the choices.
>
> ...and that's my 2 cents.
>
>>
>> -Josh
>>
>
>
> --
> James Mitchell
> Software Developer/Struts Evangelist
> http://www.open-tools.org
>
>
>
>
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> To unsubscribe, e-mail: struts-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: struts-user-help@jakarta.apache.org
>
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Re: Exadel Struts Studio. Message from the Source.
Posted by Sergey Smirnov <si...@exadel.com>.
Jeff,
My answer was not be addressed personally to you. Your message was just a last one in the chain of unpleasant responses. I used to be very upset to receive such responses from people I tried to did my best for.
--
Sergey
----- Original Message -----
From: Jeff Kyser
To: Struts Users Mailing List
Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2003 3:19 PM
Subject: Re: Exadel Struts Studio. Message from the Source.
Sergey,
If you re-read my e-mail you will not see any criticism of the product
itself, nor
any personal attacks on its developers. Or at least I don't see any.
I have not downloaded [Studio], and therefore have nothing to say about
its capabilities.
That is the only degree to which I consider that I have disregarded the
product.
But I simply don't have time to download / evaluate every product,
struts-related,
java-related, or otherwise regardless of how wonderful it may be.
I use this list to seek specific technical help on Struts usage issues,
and to try to
provide answers to others when I can.
If the list charter includes allowing posts on struts-related products,
then I'll
just set up my little ANN filter, and that will be the last of it from
me.
regards,
-jeff
Re: Exadel Struts Studio. Message from the Source.
Posted by Jeff Kyser <kt...@comcast.net>.
Sergey,
If you re-read my e-mail you will not see any criticism of the product
itself, nor
any personal attacks on its developers. Or at least I don't see any.
I have not downloaded [Studio], and therefore have nothing to say about
its capabilities.
That is the only degree to which I consider that I have disregarded the
product.
But I simply don't have time to download / evaluate every product,
struts-related,
java-related, or otherwise regardless of how wonderful it may be.
I use this list to seek specific technical help on Struts usage issues,
and to try to
provide answers to others when I can.
If the list charter includes allowing posts on struts-related products,
then I'll
just set up my little ANN filter, and that will be the last of it from
me.
regards,
-jeff
On Thursday, May 1, 2003, at 04:45 PM, Sergey Smirnov wrote:
> We did the current version of Struts Studio for FREE use. We spend our
> time and resources trying to make a tool that helps developers,
> especially newbies, to hide complexity of the technology. Personally,
> I work hard for last several months since 7am till 2am each day,
> included weekends, to do this job.
> And what is the result. You said that everything I did is just a span.
> Thank you, of course, for your suggestion, but I am not ready to buy
> it. I just see only disregard to colleagues here and nothing more.
>
> --
> Sergey Smirnov
> Exadel Struts Studio Architect
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Jeff Kyser
> To: Struts Users Mailing List
> Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2003 2:03 PM
> Subject: Re: [ANN] New release of Exadel Struts Studio
>
>
> I don't have anything personal against Exadel other than that I
> view product announcements showing up on a user list as
> yet another form of junk mail I didn't really want to receive.
>
> (I guess I could set up a filter to get rid of ANN - who
> is she anyway? - LOL)
>
> If the charter for the struts-user list includes encouraging folks
> to sell their 'struts-related' tools on the list, then I guess that
> makes me the odd man out.
>
> Just seems that most folks have generally selected a tool and
> are working with it already, or we get into IDE wars that start
> with somebody mentioning emacs and somebody else hurling
> anathemas like 'lisp boy', and it going rapidly downhill into
> useless banter from there...
>
> Were I king, there'd be a product links page somewhere on
> the Struts page (probably already is), and whoever maintained
> the links would yank the link of any company who posted
> their latest product offerings to the list.
>
> And, as my second act as king, I'd get the 'struts boot camp' to
> develop a site that let individuals post their opinions about the
> products and hang that off the struts pages as well, and then
> everyone who so desired could hawk their favorite IDE or
> tool or blast it for its features/license 'til the cows come home...
>
> regards,
>
> -jeff
>
>
> On Thursday, May 1, 2003, at 03:13 PM, James Mitchell wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 2003-05-01 at 15:55, Josh Rayls wrote:
>>> Like the previous emailer, I too, was was surprised to see yet
>>> another ad
>>> for your product on here, hence my reply. The question was "Is
>>> anyone
>>> actually using this?"
>>>
>>> It seems a little obnoxious to post ads to the Struts mailing list
>>> for
>>> commercial products. I don't think anyone clicked the "send offers
>>> for new
>>> products" checkbox when joining the list-- not to mention that the
>>> license
>>> is rediculous.
>>
>> Sorry, but I disagree. I welcome all announcements for new and
>> existing
>> struts-related products, commercial or not.
>>
>> (this is not aimed at Josh, but to everyone)
>> I find it a bit unfair that a few people on this list have chosen to
>> pick on this product because of their own lack of understanding about
>> standard licensing verbage. Have you checked out the license for all
>> other tools/components that have sent announcements to this list? I
>> doubt it.
>>
>> If you hadn't noticed, the Apache license is a "business friendly"
>> license. You are supposed to make money using these tools.
>>
>> Let's get off Igor's case. I'm happy to see corporate support for
>> Struts. Sorry, but I just like having the choices.
>>
>> ...and that's my 2 cents.
>>
>>>
>>> -Josh
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> James Mitchell
>> Software Developer/Struts Evangelist
>> http://www.open-tools.org
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: struts-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: struts-user-help@jakarta.apache.org
>>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: struts-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: struts-user-help@jakarta.apache.org
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: struts-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: struts-user-help@jakarta.apache.org